Does anybody fear

[paul_oshea]

( the reaper! )something going wrong with soccer at croke park and not being allowed let in again....I have a weird feeling something could go wrong or trouble with the welsh or something, i dont know what just something niggling in the back of my mind....is there anyway english fans could get tickets through the welsh FA or anything? They know the historical importance of the GAA....I know the cardiff fans have a bad reputation etc, and a few BNP followers in there support...

I remember when Sean kelly was over in the embassy over here and said, every match is being reviewed on a match by match basis, and I asked him what happens if there is any trouble in the stadium or outside or anything like that, what would happen, he said there wouldn't be anymore ( non-GAA ) games played there again..ever...very sternly I might add....

Ok, little worry rant over :)

[Claret Murph]

Paul lets get clear the GAA hate us end of story but the money will make them feel just a tad better .

[Lionel Ritchie]

( the reaper! )something going wrong with soccer at croke park and not being allowed let in again....I have a weird feeling something could go wrong or trouble with the welsh or something, i dont know what just something niggling in the back of my mind....is there anyway english fans could get tickets through the welsh FA or anything? They know the historical importance of the GAA....I know the cardiff fans have a bad reputation etc, and a few BNP followers in there support...

I remember when Sean kelly was over in the embassy over here and said, every match is being reviewed on a match by match basis, and I asked him what happens if there is any trouble in the stadium or outside or anything like that, what would happen, he said there wouldn't be anymore ( non-GAA ) games played there again..ever...very sternly I might add....

Ok, little worry rant over :)

If we'd England in our group there'd be increased tension no doubt but they have a malignant element that'd come over if the game was being played in Hogan Park.

As for Sean Kelly and his ilk -they're getting top dollar for services and facilities rendered and they'd do well to remember it and make sure their end of the deal is met. If staging these games had been put out to tender to interested parties in Britain AS WELL AS Ireland I sincerely doubt the Gae-boys would've made the top three.

[elroy]

I've thought about the same myself and I do believe there is an element of the cardiff fans that arent too savoury. But other than the england i cant remember a game where we've had trouble. In reality the welsh couldnt give two fcuks about croke park no more than we would give a fcuk if it were the other way round.

I doubt there would be trouble but if there ever was, it would give fuel to those hard liners and i doubt we'd ever have a game there again.

Aside from this, I do think the gaa arent as keen at letting soccer into croker as they are rugby to be honest.

[paul_oshea]

elroy agree with yer last point. But I think its partly to do with this "really thats why people didnt want to let soccer/ rugby in, because soccer/rugby look down at their achievement but yet take full advantage ", and that the GAA feel that the soccer lads in particular look down and take the ****, yet then come knocking when it suits.....got this from a local paper about the "first guy" who proposed to open up croke park, well he self-proclaims he was the first to propose it ..that the rugby invited them for pre-match dinners and all this lark before hte game on sunday, whereas the FAI haven't done anything....

Lionel, sean kelly is a sound fella, no "ignorant" views like the fella in there now or those before. remember over 70% voted to open it, take out the north and you dont have too many "no'ers"!

Murph, i dont think they "hate" the irfu and its followers nearly as much as the FAI and its followers......so there must be something in it......

[SuperDave]

If we'd England in our group there'd be increased tension no doubt but they have a malignant element that'd come over if the game was being played in Hogan Park.

As for Sean Kelly and his ilk -they're getting top dollar for services and facilities rendered and they'd do well to remember it and make sure their end of the deal is met. If staging these games had been put out to tender to interested parties in Britain AS WELL AS Ireland I sincerely doubt the Gae-boys would've made the top three.

Sean Kelly isn't really the problem, no longer being president and all. I am, however, concerned that the incumbent Nickey Brennan (sounds like someone from Westlife, not a gaahead, but nevermind) isn't too fond of non-gaelic games and i might be wrong here, but i think he was one of the few who went on the record as being opposed to the opening up before that vote (i think he was elected president in a later vote). I might be wrong here, but i'm fairly sure he's not as much in favour of opening the place up as the sean kelly was.

[reder]

I agree with Paul in that i have a horrible niggling feeling in that back of my mind that something is going to "happen" to tarnish our rep and the rep of football fans. Maybe a protest by some of their hardcore fans (which is rumoured to be happening next weekend also) will turn nasty and 2 guesses who the GAA PR driven media will blame.

Paul, mate, you need to get a grip on the whole anti england fans thing. I can assure you that if england fans want a scrap they will go north to the scots. They would have no interest in us. They like the welsh and scots couldnt give a monkies about Croke Park. Its another football ground come March 27th, the history etc is irrelevant to them.

Cardiff city fans are one of the most troublesome groups of fans in the uk. The consistently create trouble at home and away and will cause havoc if they manage to reach the PL. If they decide to cause trouble in or around the ground on matchday they will and there is little chance that the cops here will have the ability to control them.

[Soper]

Reder, how many Cardiff City matches do you actually go to?

How many reports of trouble have there been of Welsh fans causing trouble in the last 10 years?

[citizenerased]

Stop this anti gaa nonsense...The fai are goin to make a killing out of croker, at the end of the day they gave us croker and we dont have to go abroad so count your blessings...If the GAA foockin hate soccer so much why the fucck did the absolish rule 42....

If you cant understand the formation of rule 42 read a foockin history book

[Soper]

I would agree with you, if you were actually right in any way.

[citizenerased]

were agreed so

[reder]

Reder, how many Cardiff City matches do you actually go to?

How many reports of trouble have there been of Welsh fans causing trouble in the last 10 years?

Cardiff city fans cause trouble at pretty much every away ground they go to. They are banned from certain grounds along with Millwall and Stoke City amongst others. I travel the length and breadth of the uk watching football and am very well clued in on the who's who of football in the uk. Correct me if I wrong but didnt Wolves ban them from visiting Molineux? At home, there was very well documented trouble between Cardiff and Spurs fans this season and Cardiff and Leeds fans a few years ago.

Also when did the GAA vote to remove Rule 42? Did I miss something? I only heard about a amendment to Rule 42 which allows football and rugby games to be held in Croke Park during the re-developement of Lansdowne road. Rule 42 is still part of the GAA's constitution.

[Sumac]

And so what if the GAA still has a Rule 42 within its constitution. Wouldn't be great if the FAI had some kind of constituion that it would follow and could only be amended by a constitutional vote by its members - The GAA is a different sporting body who are not required to to do anything for the FAI - same as the FAI is not obliged to do anything for the GAA.
A lot of people who follow association football also follow Gaelic and hurling and vice versa. The IRFU and its supportes went about Croke Park the right way - They were very grateful to be given the Stadium and very complimentary about it - Which of course increases their chances of getting it again in the future - If you lend someone something and they are ungrateful, you are hardly going to give it to them again.

[Collyontour]

I only have a fear of San Marino and Cyprus. They're going to get stronger as the group goes on

[elroy]

I do think alot of the publicity/fuss etc about croker is starting to die down now that the first game has been played. And even more so when the gaa decide this weekend to grant access again in 2008. There will always be a minority who dont want us there but at this stage they represent a very small number. My only fear is the wales game and the aforementioned cardiff fans, however we have a good relationship with wales and i dont remember any trouble from when we played them in the 90s. So i think everything should pass off ok.

As for Sean Kelly, the man did nothing but good for us, he pushed that motion through and deserves credit for it. He is a true genuine sportsman who's preference is gaa but by no means is anti rugby/football, the opposite in fact.

[Jerry The Saint]

The IRFU and its supportes went about Croke Park the right way - They were very grateful to be given the Stadium and very complimentary about it - Which of course increases their chances of getting it again in the future - If you lend someone something and they are ungrateful, you are hardly going to give it to them again.

I dunno, the greater antagonism towards soccer is probably because elements in the GAA don't regard rugby to be as big a "threat" as soccer. There are rugby areas/schools and GAA areas/schools and everyone is happy. Rugby players are also pretty well marked out for the sport at an early age so the case of Mick Galwey is rare compared to those who leave the sport to play soccer. The likes of Doyle and Long were genuine GAA stars in the making unlike Brian "played a bit in primary school" O'Driscoll.

The FAI don't help by being clueless but every little ambiguous comment is seized on as evidence that the soccer lads think they own the place. Ironic that Staunton is steeped in GAA-ness, whereas Eddie O'Sullivan admitted no interest and had only ever been to one GAA match in his life. And I can guarantee that there will be a far, far smaller number of fans asking for directions at the Wales game than there was last Sunday.

Things have already started changing though - expect rugby to make even bigger inroads into traditional GAA areas if Ireland have a good World Cup (cf. the Charlton era and growth of soccer). Look how frosty the relationship with the AFL turned when just 3 or 4 players per year started taking offers from Australian clubs.

[Soper]

Cardiff city fans cause trouble at pretty much every away ground they go to. They are banned from certain grounds along with Millwall and Stoke City amongst others. I travel the length and breadth of the uk watching football and am very well clued in on the who's who of football in the uk. Correct me if I wrong but didnt Wolves ban them from visiting Molineux? At home, there was very well documented trouble between Cardiff and Spurs fans this season and Cardiff and Leeds fans a few years ago.

Also when did the GAA vote to remove Rule 42? Did I miss something? I only heard about a amendment to Rule 42 which allows football and rugby games to be held in Croke Park during the re-developement of Lansdowne road. Rule 42 is still part of the GAA's constitution.

Well, having been at that match, and a plethora of away matches, I can assure you that you are exagerrating it. For instance, both Brimingham and Wolves fans, at Ninian Park this season, started ripping out seats and trying to start fights in the ground. The Cardiff fans had nothing to do with it.

Also, it has been well documented, the situation with Wolves. The chief exec would rather have no away fans and keep the 350k it takes to police an average match.

And you want to know the excuse for banning them from Molineux?

Trouble, which consisted soley of a drunk Cardiff fan throwing a pie at a wall.

[Sumac]

Ironic that Staunton is steeped in GAA-ness, whereas Eddie O'Sullivan admitted no interest and had only ever been to one GAA match in his life. And I can guarantee that there will be a far, far smaller number of fans asking for directions at the Wales game than there was last Sunday.


I agree that there will be a greater number of fans at the Wales game that there were at the Rugby - I believe there is a bigger cross over of supporters between the Gaelic and the football. However I hope that all supporters going to Croker appreciate the gesture from the GAA and create an environment where there will be no problems in requesting the stadium in the future

Regarding Eddie O'Sullivan I am not sure where you read that he had no interest in Gaelic football - He lives in Galway and actually played in a senior football county final in the county -
It is correct that Stan is steeped in GAA-ness - lets hope all the players appreciate the history surrounding this (No problem of course for the likes of Doyle, Long or Given)

[citizenerased]

Irelands Call...ya got to love that disgrace!!!!

[paul_oshea]

They like the welsh and scots couldnt give a monkies about Croke Park. Its another football ground come March 27th, the history etc is irrelevant to them.


they mightnt give a sh1te about croke park on the 27th of march but its the 24th id be worried about!

[paul_oshea]

good man ( or woman ) sumac, great post.

here jerry there were way more than just mick galway, moss keane is another well known example. btw what player who started last sunday won an all ireland medal in croke park? and its not shane horgan. same amount of players playing rugby, if not mre at the moment, were big into the gaa than the soccer lads.

anyhow make sure ye give anyone causing trouble a slap and make sure everything passess of ok like elroy suggests.

[Schumi]

btw what player who started last sunday won an all ireland medal in croke park?Sebastien Chabal?

[DubJohn]

Sebastien Chabal?

:D :D

[WexDec]

here jerry there were way more than just mick galway, moss keane is another well known example. btw what player who started last sunday won an all ireland medal in croke park? and its not shane horgan. same amount of players playing rugby, if not mre at the moment, were big into the gaa than the soccer lads.

Woods is another one, don't know if to any great level though

[citizenerased]

Fucck rugby, it represents everthing i despise about modern ireland...

[supasparx]

Fucck rugby, it represents everthing i despise about modern ireland...

It's hardly new to us though, is it?
And why dispise 'modern Ireland'?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Fucck rugby, it represents everthing i despise about modern ireland...

I too rue the day rugby rolled off the ferry with the SUVs, the second homes in the Algarve, the Ipods and the Salsa classes.:mad:

No wait ...I'm talking garbage:eek:

[citizenerased]

ok maybe it was a bit of a sweeping statement had a few beers last night when i wrote it, but ireland is slowly but surely loosing its character

Listen i work in D4,to me Rugby represents to me elitism and snobbery, cultural and historical neglect (irelands call, and pretentious american sounding accents that appearred out of no where in the 80s), They try and move away from anything whatsoever that is quintessentially irish.....
before ye say it i know munster rugars are different

[billybunter]

agree with citizen erased 100%. the ruger crowd are a false, prretentious, shower of dikk heads. I to speak from experience. I moved from the country to a well know rugger school in late 80's. Was a mad gaa and soccer player, and i will share a short story. we entered a gaa team, and drew another team from the same town in an open cup comeptition, without sharing details, the powers that be would not allow the lowering of the cross bar or marking of the rugger field to play the gaa game. Class shower. was an impressionable 16 year old at the time. Few years older now, but you want to talk about a crowd of bigots. We played away and got hammered of course. agree with the sentiment - fook rugby.

[reder]

I have nothing against them really. They are harmless. Their game is ultra-posh and attracts all these wannabe posh types and corporates that we dont have to entertain but on the whole they are good people.

I sincerely hope all goes ok for them next weekend given that RSF have arranged pickets on Croke Park. I would genuinely hate to see the name of rugby people dragged through the mud as a result of the actions of these people.

[gspain]

A couple of different issues here.

I am concerned that an incident will happen soon to damage the good reputation of our fans. There is an agrressive element that has come to the fore in the last couple of years. The venom of the abuse in San Marino. the fighting in the stand. Ditto for some elements in Cyprus and even Stuttgart. I don't think it would take much to spark off trouble. I think it is more likely to happen away than at home.

The GAA can't really renege on the current deal up until 2009. If there was an incident in Croek Park the anti brigade would of course try to use it. They will use anything they can.

One potential issue is if we draw Northern Ireland in the World Cup qualifiers. The current hype over GSTQ being sung next saturday would seem like a storm in a teacup at the prospect of it being played for NI.

[reder]

Was GSTQ played the last time we meet in Lansdowne? It was that friendly where about 20,000 turned up cos there was a glasgow derby on at the same time.

[paul_oshea]

The GAA can't really renege on the current deal up until 2009. If there was an incident in Croek Park the anti brigade would of course try to use it. They will use anything they can.

oh, gspain they will.

[RogerMilla]

Ihonestly believe the wales game is the real slice of history on this island. The French rugby game was a huge deal but this is the real thing. When GAA people talk about other codes it is rarely rugby they are thinking about.
Also American Football was played at croker. March 24th is the Real Deal.
Soccer comes to the GAA HQ.
Can't wait!!

[lopez]

ok maybe it was a bit of a sweeping statement had a few beers last night when i wrote it...It would be a good idea if we took a breathalyser before we posted on here, me no exception. :D

Personally I can appreciate yours and others hostility to rugger in your part of the world. I nearly put the boot through the telly last year before the Leinster v Munster game. I was all set to support Leinster. Dad's from Dublin and Conchita's inexplicable hatrede to all things of the capital and fanatical support for the men in red meant there was no other option. Then up popped this, how would I describe him, hmm, complete f*cking w*nker. Stated something about the Munster boys being 'boggers' in this fake posh Dublin accent which I believe is known as the D4 bullsh*t accent. If that had been someone English we'd be furious. This c*nt thinks he can get away with that sh*te. Needless to say I was as chuffed as Paul O'Donnell and Conchita when they got hammered.

Don't think things are as bad in Limerick, although there are a few ar*eholes rented out to heads in Cork.


...I am concerned that an incident will happen soon to damage the good reputation of our fans. There is an agrressive element that has come to the fore in the last couple of years. The venom of the abuse in San Marino. the fighting in the stand. Ditto for some elements in Cyprus and even Stuttgart. I don't think it would take much to spark off trouble. I think it is more likely to happen away than at home...Most of that recent aggression is born from the poor results and sh*te performances. The trouble is likely to be Irish v Irish. I can't see the Welsh being part of it. Trouble could be in Cardiff, but unlike with the Tans, I've never known of trouble with our previous visits there or Wrexham with the Welsh. I saw Derry City play Cardiff in 1988. There were songs about the IRA - 'IRA, IRA, IRA' to that American army tune that 'Ing-er-land' is also sung to - but it has to be said that it wasn't Derry City fans that were singing them. So much for the BNP element amongst yet another band of overrated hooligans.

[osarusan]

to me Rugby represents to me elitism and snobbery, cultural and historical neglect



the ruger crowd are a false, prretentious, shower of dikk heads. I to speak from experience.


I Their game is ultra-posh and attracts all these wannabe posh types and corporates that we dont have to entertain but on the whole they are good people.


Lads have you ever been to a game in Limerick, which truly is the (spiritual) home of Irish rugby? Limerick gets a lot of abuse on this forum, as does every other city, but I've never seen the any of the above words used - snobbery, posh, elitism, pretentious.



Don't think things are as bad in Limerick
.

Lopez - the voice of reason!!!



before ye say it i know munster rugars are different

Ok never mind.

[lopez]

Lopez - the voice of reason!!!Not noted for that. :D

I've never been to Limerick city, but I read the book recently 'Stand Up And Fight!' Mainly about the All Blacks victory of 1978 but touches on the discrimination of the IRFU prior to this time to Limerick rugby. Unfortunately with Irish rugger, the classism stems from the schools that play it. Few non private schools play the game, and while private schools are spread more widely across the population than here in England, the elitism remains. At my state comp school in England, my year was the first to play the game, yet we played just against other comprehensives and never against private schools.

[paul_oshea]

osarusan they have an even more elitist attitude in limerick when it comes to rugby. the players walking round in niteclubs in tracksuit bottoms and tops fFFS for a start....

[zenokelly]

agree with citizen erased 100%. the ruger crowd are a false, prretentious, shower of dikk heads. I to speak from experience. I moved from the country to a well know rugger school in late 80's. Was a mad gaa and soccer player, and i will share a short story. we entered a gaa team, and drew another team from the same town in an open cup comeptition, without sharing details, the powers that be would not allow the lowering of the cross bar or marking of the rugger field to play the gaa game. Class shower. was an impressionable 16 year old at the time. Few years older now, but you want to talk about a crowd of bigots. We played away and got hammered of course. agree with the sentiment - fook rugby.

I too was in probably the biggest rugby school of all in the late 90's and early 00's.
That is actually what put me totally off ruger. It was compulsory to play it. Not that it was really the most popular sport in the school because soccer was but when this was put to the principal to higher the profile of soccer in the school, he declined saying that it was the sport of private schools. That is complete ape shiite.

RUgby fans are completely false.

Over 50% of the fans at the french match were brought through corporate hospitality and they all thought it was brilliant so they could say they were at the 1st non - gaa match.

Well on the 24th we will see the first non - gaa real sport in Croker. It will be memorable and I assure you there will be no trouble. Why would Welsh fans give a sh#t about Croker?

Bring it on!!! - with real fans:D

[osarusan]

RUgby fans are completely false.


All of them, or just some of them?

one thing we wont stand for here at foot.ie is shameless generalisations of any kind, we just want fair, balanced, logical debate.;)

[zenokelly]

RUgby fans are completely false.

Iwas talking about the ones i have experienced in my life.

[Jamjar]

Class shower. was an impressionable 16 year old at the time.

Did you drop your soap or something or were the other boys "bigger" than you. You might find that counselling would help.

[danonion]

Yank's view: I've spent twenty-someodd summers in Ireland mostly in Monaghan and Limerick, and the hatred of Rugby people in Dublin is fairly well justified, they are an awful bunch of snobs with non-accents (a bit like Bono, when he's in the states). I have to speak in defence of the Limerick rugby people though, I have always found them to be a genuine bunch and a lot of the people who play down there are fair poor and don't share the megalomaniacal tendancies that the Dublin rugby people (and most of Ireland, for that matter) have acquired.

Big changes in Ireland over the years, but as long as there's a pub with no taps in scotstown, I'll know im home.

[paul_oshea]

non-accents (a bit like Bono, when he's in the states).

The world is Broken, BONO make it better :D

[citizenerased]

lads, the Leinster rugars act like they dont want to be an irish man, and refer to anything irish as 'bog' this and 'bog' that in their disgusting O.C type accents..

[Jerry The Saint]

Then up popped this, how would I describe him, hmm, complete f*cking w*nker. Stated something about the Munster boys being 'boggers' in this fake posh Dublin accent which I believe is known as the D4 bullsh*t accent. If that had been someone English we'd be furious. This c*nt thinks he can get away with that sh*te. Needless to say I was as chuffed as Paul O'Donnell and Conchita when they got hammered.


Just read this now - that sounds a lot like the skit that Apres Match did for that game:confused: Was there also a Munster fan going on about how John Hayes is a lidgind, a LIDGIND I tell ya? :eek:

[lopez]

Just read this now - that sounds a lot like the skit that Apres Match did for that game:confused: Was there also a Munster fan going on about how John Hayes is a lidgind, a LIDGIND I tell ya? :eek:It was the BBC, so I doubt it was a skit, though you're right, it would have made a good comedy sketch. God knows where they find these people, though. :rolleyes:

[WexDec]

The fact Leinster vs Munster became, media wise, southside dubs vs culchies was bizarre and sums up the amazing splits in that sport that we should try to keep out of ours. For one thing Limerick and Cork are obv cities themselves and also Leinster comprises more than just Dublin let alone south Dublin. You end up with a situation that non-Dub (or even north Dub) Leinster people feel they can't support the team for all the reasons given in previous posts and the country based ones actually have more affection for Munster (and not just because of their success) especially when the bogger stuff comes out.

I think its true that Limerick rugby and D4/Blackrock rugby are culturally different, shown with hilarious affect in Alone It Stands. As is common with a lot of Irish organisations the IRFU it is Dublin centric but thats nothing unusual. The Leinster branch can't even garner potential support from their own province cos of their myopia (don't train in schools/clubs down the country etc.) resulting in attendances that could be much bigger for run of the mill matches. So what do you expect from their fans when they play an opposing province contain an alternative capital (not getting into all that !) and also a city that has massive spiritual rugby history. By the way in contrast I think the emergence of Irish footballers from non-traditional areas in recent years is a welcome trend and long may it continue, got to get most out of our small population and in turn encourage more participation.

But I have to say that Cork Munster heads are every bit as egotistical as any rugger bugger though. Have nothing against Dublin, Cork or Limerick, quite the opposite I (maybe unusually) like them all. Just my observations on rugby culture.

[WexDec]

.....as an aside you get a lot of women at the Croker rugger matches (fit at that). Are much bigger on the tickets for the girlfriend front. Interesting to see if the FAI "extras debacle" will have a similiar effect.

[paul_oshea]

GARDAI advice could lead to the postponement of the March 23 clash of Bohemians and Shamrock Rovers due to concerns about Welsh football hooligans arriving for the following day's international with Ireland at Croke Park.

Bohs and Rovers officials will meet with the FAI and Gardai today to discuss a possible re-arrangement of the first meeting between the Dublin rivals after the Hoops return to the top flight.

The Gardai are believed to want to channel their energies into the Welsh match that weekend after discussions with their counterparts in Cardiff provided evidence that known trouble makers are planning to make the journey to Dublin.

Football in Wales has traditionally suffered problems with hooligan elements. Supporters of Cardiff City were recently banned from attending Championship games away to Wolves after the Midlands' club cited trouble with Bluebirds supporters in previous fixtures at Molineux.

The Dublin derby is likely to be moved back by three days until Monday 26th March. There is normally a large police presence for the fixture and there were disturbances prior to an FAI Cup match between the sides last year


from another thread.....again the media, but generally when it comes to garda operations they are the first to get wind. this is exactly what i was worried about....