Where should Limerick play?

[sadloserkid]

Where would you most like to see Limerick playing in five years time?

[BlueisBeautiful]

.......THE BERNEBAU!!!!!!

[Éanna]

I reckon, from having seen Jackman and Hogan Park, that neither of them are really viable options. The Markets Field is the traditional home of limerick soccer as far as I know, and a move back there might be the best option-look at what it did for us.

[LFC Blue]

As this is my first ever post i'll just introduce myself as an ardent Limerick follower since the early 90's who is currently very disillusioned by the state of the club.The ground issue is perhaps the most serious question mark hanging over Limerick.Since we left the Markets Field the club apart from early success in Rathbane has gone on a downward spiral to the current all time low of playing in the dismal appalling soulless ground that is Jackman Park.Jackman Park has got nothing to offer Limerick FC it is soulless and totally devoid of atmosphere as well as being in a pitiful state.I didn't think it was possible to find a ground worst than Hogan Park but we have.Atleast the shed end in hogan park offered up a great atmosphere when full.However i accept Hogan park is not the answer either for various reasons.To even include UL in the poll is absurd to say the least and an insult to Limerick senior soccer.UL is a campus it is not Limerick City.Moving to UL would drain whatever soul is left in the club that is Limerick FC.LFC belongs in the heart of Limerick City where someday we can bring the crowds back therefore our spiritual home The Markets Field is the only answer to this crisis.LFC have to do whatever they can to make this possible or else risk losing LImerick FC forever and it has to happen soon.

[sadloserkid]

As I put up the poll I think I should explain the inclusion of UL, especially as I voted for the Markets Field myself. I included UL simply becaise it had been mentioned as an option by the club in the last few years. There's never really been any serious chance of us playing there and personally I would be against it. Not because the club would lose it's 'soul' (they're down to pretty much a hardcore now and we'd go anywhere to see them play) but because the UL bowl isn't enclosed and it would be impossible to charge for admission. Also the athletics track would kill what little atmosphere we do create!!! Anyway, glad to have you on board! Hopefully we'll see you tonight?

[LFC in Exile]

Welcome LFC Blue. The more thebetter.

SLK, we've talked aboutthis before. It is a key issue. I think Thomond Aprk is a non-runner. Too dear potentially and the risk of a small crowd ratling around means no atmosphere.

I think the Markets Field is a non-runner too. I wonder how many here have actually seen the inside of the Markets Field - and I don't mena that to suggest you aren't supporting long enough or you are not around long enough etc. I raise it because the Markets Field is a kip. People in Limerick refer back to the Markets Field as if it was brilliant there. There is a greyhound track around the pitch. The fans are very far away from the action. Limerick left the MF in 1983/4 - just before that there were packed houses, not because the MF was in town or was such a great stadium but because the team was winning and in Europe.

If the team was winning the Jacks would be packed. Rathbane was packed for big cup games up to 5 years ago.

My solution would be going back to Rathbane if possible (though that may not be possible) and second stick with the Jacks.

Don't let nostalgia or sentimentality cloud your view of the MF. And don't believ all those tossers in Limerick who say they won't go to Limerick matches because of the MF. These are just excuses for lads that wouldn't cross the road for a game - unless its to the pub.

[sadloserkid]

I've actually visited the Markets Field a few times in the last 6 months or so and because I am a relatively new supporter I'm not clouded with nostalgia on the issue. It's just that The Markets Field has got so much more scope for development than The Jacks does. And we are being charged exorbitant rent for The Jacks as it is. This can't continue! We are being ripped off by the LDMC scumbags who are charging us through our noses for the worst facilities in the league. The Jacks will never be able to fulfill the Club License requirements and (and by 2004???) and we'll be thrown out if we stay there. End of story. We need a move. In the short term, loss of atmosphere may have to be accepted and we may have to squat in Thomond Park but in the longer term we need something we can develop. I can't see that potential in The Jacks. We're playing in the worst ground in the league and we need to rectify that. Wherever we end up though, we need to make a decision soon and move on it and stop this pussyfooting around. If it's to be the Jacks then so be it, tell us and get on with it! But make a decision before it's too late. I know we were laughing yesterday about who we'd end up semi-supporting if Limerick went under but this club licansing could make that a reality.

[LFC Blue]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LFC in Exile
[B]If the team was winning the Jacks would be packed. Rathbane was packed for big cup games up to 5 years ago.

My solution would be going back to Rathbane if possible (though that may not be possible) and second stick with the Jacks.

Although i have already stated my prefered option is the Markets Field i have to admit part of me agrees with you about heading back to rathbane.i was talkin to a friend of mine another hardcore fan from the rathbane era (but has yet to go to jackman) who was telling me he played against Hill Celtic up in Hogan Park very recently.As for the state of the place its seriously seriously delapidated(whats new) with the majority of the ground like a jungle(whats new) but he did say the seats (from Stoke Citys former Victoria ground) are still in good nick and the pitch is not bad.I know about the obvious negatives of the place but with FAI assistance there is great opportunity for developement unlike Jackman with the perimeter wall and the compact nature of the ground plus with the ring road on the opposite side of the ground access could be much more convenient.does anyone know whats the story with the place ownership etc.???????????/

[sadloserkid]

... is owned by a guy called Peter Hogan. Limerick never had any type of ownership on the ground, we were in there basically because Father Joe was misleading Hogan with talk of a 'boystown' scenario. Rathbane seems to be dead on the water at present. The club were supposed to be meeting Peter Hogan months ago but I've no idea how that went to be honest... I do agree however that there's much more scope for development there than at The Jacks.

[Éanna]

Originally posted by sadloserkid
Rathbane seems to be dead on the water at present.
is there anyone playin there now?

[sadloserkid]

a local junior side called Hill Celtic.

[sadloserkid]

This is the view of gael353 and not me (sadloserkid). The poor boy is having registration problems...

In light of the recent feasibility study, which came out (I believe) in favour of the development of the L.D.M.C., ground at Jackman Park, by the F.A.I, Limerick Football Club and the L.D.M.C. These are my views on the various grounds which we could/might play in, and some questions which will have to be answered before any such development takes place. Jackman Park (De Jacks)
On the plus side for Jackman Park is its location. A two-minute walk from the cities rail and bus station makes it the most ideal spot for visiting supporters. Secondly a soccer body, namely the L.D.M.C, owns it. This eliminates the “purchase” aspect of other sites. Existing facilities within the ground are none existent, and the ones that are there are for want a better word obsolete. Namely the floodlights, covered areas, toilets dressing rooms etc. Jackman Park has no facility for a car park. The present arrangement of paying a soccer body for the usage of these “fine” facility is nothing short of scandalous, by developing it would be rewarding these people with a €3 million cheque from FAI funding. No way. Rating: 2/10
Thomond Park:
Is the home of Limerick and Munster rugby and is owned by the IRFU, not as most people think the Munster branch. The ground is situated on the north side of the city and is a 5-minute drive or 15 min walk. It is located alongside the Limerick Institute of Technology and is serviced by a bus route. The capacity of the ground is 18,000 but when fully seated this is reduced to 13,000. This is the most modern stadium in the mid west boasting medical rooms, world class facilities with regard changing rooms, media rooms, 500 lux flood lights, two bars plus parking. When in the past Limerick required these facilities for European days and frindlies, they were always made welcome. While undoubtedly this is a perfect stadium for Limerick Football Club, it cannot be argued that this would be a good move for Limerick Junior, Schoolboy/girl or other sections of football in the mid-west, as it is highly unlikely that the IRFU would be willing to facilitate hundreds of games weekly every summer. My idea would be that we would move here temporarily to gain and keep our supporters because at the moment we’re loosing them while residing in the Jacks. Oh and about the atmosphere thing, atmosphere is nothing image is everything in our case! Rating: 9/10
Gaelic Grounds
Soon to be completed 51,000 capacity stadium. At present being re-developed at a cost of €12 million. We don’t own it and have at this time no chance of gaining admittance due to the GAA having a ban on foreign sports (excluding American football, Aussie Rules etc) In years to come with Limerick back in Europe and the GAA ban being relaxed, there might be a possibility. Please note that in 1988 the Limerick county board made an application to have this ban ruled out to host an Ireland V’s Russia soccer game at the grounds this was rejected by central council. Rating: N.A.
Rathbane
Due to its location was deemed unsuitable by most of the footballing population. That was in the late eighties and early nineties, but now when you come in from the Cork road and see the £107,000 floodlights, seats etc, little seams wrong with the ground in comparison to other Eircom league grounds. But this is the legacy of Fr. Joe Young and his dishonesty in telling the people of Limerick that Limerick Football Club owned the ground when in fact it didn’t is contemptible. Limerick Football Club has no claim to the ground now and instead would have to bargain some sort of rent agreement with the new tenants Hill Celtic in order to gain admittance. 20 years of playing there and for what? Ten years of grants and broken promises. Rating: 4/10
The Markets Field.
5 mins. from everywhere. Purchased by the tenants Bord Na gCon three years ago for £300,000 plus the old ESB site for just over one million this is the most potent site for the development of Limerick soccer. It’s a big site; large stand, capable of housing massive stands floodlights etc. Traditional home of Limerick soccer. Personally my choice and available within 2 years due to the greyhound boards decision to move to a new green field site. Rating: 9/10
The UL Bowl.
An athletics facility, which will be developed further by the college within two years possibly making it a 20,000 seater with floodlights. Location is good however poor infrastructure and distance from footballing public could pose problems. Rating 7/10

Green field
When at the other nights discussion, we mentioned certain grounds, an elderly man at the back remarked, “pie in the sky” when someone mentioned Thomond Park. I think this is more ambition and should be looked at by all as the future rather then the elderly man (the past!!) Michael O’Sullivan made a comment of a “green field site” which there might be a possibility of someone developing for us, this is not a bad idea especially when one of the best green field sites exists close to Limerick. I’m talking about Mungret College approximately 3 miles from the city centre but unlike UL it has the best provision of infrastructure in Limerick with two main roads and a rail link to work on. The GAA were considering leaving the Gaelic Grounds to move there but didn’t get a good enough offer for their Ennis Rd. venue. The facility is owned by Analog devices and could be acquired. I believe this site has no equals. 10/10

[LFC in Exile]

How do you judge a ground? Accessibility? Facilities? Tradition?

In truth it is a combination of each of these - but few grounds will deliver all three to a high level. Particularly in Limerick's case where in effect we are starting from scratch.

The decision to be made about a ground has to be based on next season and not what happened in the past. I'm an economist so we have to make the decision at the margin, everything gone before is a sunk cost and so irrelevant to the decision e.g. the lights in Rathbane shouldn't be considered, the years spent at the Markets Field only relevant if it means more people would go to the games etc

We also need to look at the constraints i.e. lack of money, small crowds, room for expansion.

So lets look at all of the options. And the pros and cons.

Thomond Park

Pro - great facilities
Con - expensive? too large for current crowd size, pitch cut up

Rathbane

Pro - seats and cover at one end, floodlights
Con - no facilities (Jackman is as comfortable as Rathbane)

Markets Field

Pro - location, potential for development
Con - requires a lot of money to make fan-friendly i.e get rid of greyhound track

Green Field Site

Pro - scope for development
Con - cost, distance from city

UL

Pro - development, students around for some of season
Con - distance from city, summer soccer removes student support for much of season, inability to restrict access (at this stage)

We need to realise where the club is. I know we need to "think big" but there is a possibility that we take on something with potential 4 or 5 years down the road and the club doesn't last that long. Also, I can guarantee that the sporting public in Limerick will be very very very slow to support a new stadium plan for Limerick FC having already been burned badly by Pat Grace and Joe Young.

If Thomd Park was the same price as Jackman Park then there is a case for it. But only a weak one. Moving to Thomond Park would put Limerick in a situation where they would be paying rent for the foreseeable future - not a sustainable proposition. Rathbane seems to be gone. The attitude the club should take to Rathbane is not to get back in but to try to get seats and lights out (if that's cost effective).

The longer term solution has to be for Limerick FC to have its own home or a share in a home. This means a) building on a greenfield site, b) buying the Markets Field or c) developing Jackman Park with the LDMC. Of these I see the last one as the best solution. This is because Limerick will have a home while they develop. The club must persuade the LDMC that the money being paid in rent could be used to build the club and develop the ground, which they would continue to have a share of. The LDMC should want to develop Jackman as well. They can join Limerick FC as partners so both win. And the FAI has a role here too.

There is no problem with Jackman in relation to space to build a stand (all Limerick requires - like Turners Cross) is a 7,000 capacity ground max). The Turners Cross space is the same size as the Jackman Park space. The bigger problem is access i.e. only one entrance. This is the problem that should be focussed on because it is the only stumblin block for developing a low-rise ground. This could be done at the Markets Field or on a green field site but then the space has to be purchased.

[sadloserkid]

I wouldn't be into the Mungret college option at all! Too far out and building from scratch. We'll end up with a Buckley Park situation with a ground in the middle of nowhere. Limerick fans, in my opinion should be able to walk to their ground comfortably. At least with UL there's a bus rtoute I don't know if Mungret even has that.

I also agree with LFC In Exile that Rathbane is a bad debt at this stage. Why do we wanna go back there anyway? We should get the lights and seats out but other than that let Hill Celtic have it.

As for Jackman I'm still not convinced that it can be developed properly and I worry about the entrances scenario. I think as a group we should try and get a good look at the feasability study and make up our own minds.

For me the best option is the Market's Field but that's dependant on us getting the money to buy it so that's also doubtful at the present time.

The Thomond Park option while not my favourite has clearly caught the attention of Limerick fans if the poll is anything to go by. I take LFC's points on board but unless I'm shown proof that Jackman can be developed properly then I'd be inclined to throw my lot behind anywhere else, particulalry if the LDMC pirates don't change their attitude. The whole "Ye'll have to come back to us and pay what we ask" attitude espoused by at least one scruffy dinosaur at last weeks fans forum is reason enough in my book to want nothing to do with the LDMC.

So in short... I've reached the stage where I don't know... Besides it's all academic because the club haven't explored any options other than The Jacks for next season and even those discussions are at a pretty embryonic stage considering the new season is only around the corner.

[gael353]

Ok after carefully considering all the options im going to do the honorable thing and in true Limerick Football Club style ignore ye :) nah only kidding but i hate De Jacks and i honestly think that moving to Thomond Park in the short term is the answer untill we sort ourselves out and get the markets field! i hope eircom consider this day to be a weekend thing or else im shagged!

[Gone Away]

I said that maybe u should play in Thomond, but that is only a temporary solution.

Having been to Jackman park for ur game with Mons i was horrified to see what a dump it is. The pitch is horrible, your stand looks like it could fall over etc.

BUT, with a bit of investment there is no reason why Jackman cannot be brought to the level of the lansiro in Longford. There is plenty of room for development, if only anyone realy cared about football in Limerick.

And god knows we need a few strong Munster teams/grounds to help the league.

[Fr. Joe]

**** them rugby ****s out of Thomond Park and lets see a real game played there that the people of Limerick can relate to.