Keith Wood

[NeilMcD]

Not sure where this should go but thought maybe the Ireland forum was the place for it but did anybody see Keith Wood on BBC before the game on Sunday. He also said the same thing on Marian Finucane on Saturday also.

He said that when he was growing up Kids dreamed of playing Rugby for Ireland playing in an All Ireland and playing in an FA Cup Final.

I was struck by this in the same way that I was by Bertie saying he was a huge Sports fan who supports the Dubs and Utd on national TV.

The very leat Wood should have said was dreaming of playing for the Irish Football team.

[Peadar]

I believe he grew up in Ennis.
Chances are, he'd have known little or nothing about the LoI, as a kid.
I'm a few years younger than him and I struggled to find results & fixtures for most LoI clubs. You could go weeks without seeing a league table.

[NeilMcD]

He grew up in Killaloe I think, I grew up in West Clare for a large part of my childhood and I dreamed of playing in a World Cup Final for Ireland. Why would he dream of playing for Ireland in rugby and not dream of playing for Ireland in football.

[pete]

At least he did not say kids dreamed of playing for Leinster or Rugby.

As someone with family history in rugby & I got to a few games every now & then I can say rubgy is a minority sport & thats even after the hype in recent years. When the ireland football team playing in the WC 99% of the country watch but when the rugby team play theirs at most 50% of people will watch.

I am already sick of the Croke Park hype. Hopefully it just for the first game...

[NeilMcD]

But he did say he dreamed of playing rugby for Ireland.

[Peadar]

But he did say he dreamed of playing rugby for Ireland.

He knew he'd never be good enough to play for an LoI side but dreamed of playing in the FA Cup Final, with shock finalists, Accrington Stanley. :D

[greendeiseboy]

with a head like his i'm sure he had a lot of nightmares

[DubJohn]

If the FAI and the current crop (aside from Given and some of the youngsters) had a shred of the dedication, organisation and professionalism of the Irish rugby team and IRFU, you would not see a mess like Cyprus or San Marino, nor supporters ripped off like last week, nor cynical cover ups, nor the growing national apathy towards our team.

Who are the better role models for young people? Our soccer team? Kids are not stupid and are many are more interested in the current rugby side or their GAA intercounty teams. I live in the centre of Dublin, and see more and more local kids are kicking rugby balls around, fact. It's not a bit surprising, after the undignified mess of last week and its aftermath.

[NeilMcD]

What has that got to do with Keith Wood growing up in 1970s Clare.

[Peadar]

What has that got to do with Keith Wood growing up in 1970s Clare.


Lets face it, if Woods said that he dreamed of playing in the FAI Cup Final for Rovers, you'd be a lot more wound up now. :p

[NeilMcD]

No I would say fair play to him. Lets face it he is more likely to play in an FAI Cup Final for Rovers as they have a better record in the cup than anybody over the years.

[drinkfeckarse]

Maybe he was just into rugby....

[Peadar]

Maybe he was just into rugby....

There have been some heavy tackles in many FA Cup Finals but the sport certainly isn't rugby. ;)

[NeilMcD]

Exactly he thought the higlight of any young Irish boys life would be An All Ireland Final , playing rugby for Ireland and playing in the Final of a Cup Competition in England.

[drinkfeckarse]

There have been some heavy tackles in many FA Cup Finals but the sport certainly isn't rugby. ;)

True. :) I was just meaning that if he had little football knowledge then it is not unreasonable for him to assume that most young boys would dream about playing in a FA Cup final first and foremost rather than playing for Ireland. Misguided but understandable if he's not into football. It wasn't that long ago that the FA Cup final was a huge, huge game.

Btw Neil, other sports would probably have been the place for this seeing as you were unsure.

[NeilMcD]

Ok no prob if anybody wants to move it.

[drinkfeckarse]

Hardly doing any harm though.

[Superhoops]

.... Why would he dream of playing for Ireland in rugby and not dream of playing for Ireland in football.


Maybe he was just into rugby....

Could be something to do with the fact that his father, Gordon, a tight-head prop, played 29 times for Ireland and was on the 1959 Lions tour to New Zealand.

[paul_oshea]

neil, i think you are more concerned because of the fact he is from west clare and he didnt say playing soccer for ireland, than him actually saying he didnt think of playing for ireland....am i right?

more importantly does it really matter.

[osarusan]

more importantly does it really matter.

No it doesnt. Maybe he doesnt like the sport. Maybe he never wanted to play it. He shouldnt be expected to lie about it to be PC.

[Dodge]

I'd guess most people in ireland seen an FA Cup final before they seen the national side play on tv. His job isn't to promote the LOI or the national side. He was just saying what he felt like when he was a kid.

Biggest non story ever

[endabob1]

He said the same thing 8 years ago when Wales were playing their home games at Wembley, not sure why it's a story now when it wasn't then?

[NeilMcD]

Cause I did not see it 8 years ago and its not a story its just me seeing it on TV thats all.

[NeilMcD]

neil, i think you are more concerned because of the fact he is from west clare and he didnt say playing soccer for ireland, than him actually saying he didnt think of playing for ireland....am i right?

more importantly does it really matter.


He is not from West Clare his is from Killaloe which is East Clare. I just thought it was funny that he said mentioned 3 sports and 2 of them mentioned things to aspire as an Irishman and the other was to play in the FA Cup Final in England when he could easily just have said to play in a World Cup Final for Ireland. Just thought it was funny.

[paul_oshea]

he played for west clare in hurling though?!?!?!

[NeilMcD]

Are you sure, I have never heard of a club called West Clare but I would not swear that one did not exist but it would be strange that he played hurling for West Clare as West Clare is all football and there is no hurling past Inagh and Kilmaley.

[geysir]

He said that when he was growing up Kids dreamed of playing Rugby for Ireland playing in an All Ireland and playing in an FA Cup Final.
Keith doesn't say here what were his dreams.
Nor is the distinction made between ages of kids and the different dream activity at different ages.
Looks to me that Woods lived his dream anyway.
In general, Kids who played soccer, even as early as 1970, for the most part were already English League obsessed.

[paul_oshea]

according to the independent on saturday before the france game he did!!

[NeilMcD]

Well it could be true but I would be very doubtful of it as there is no such club as West Clare and as I said hurling is not played in West Clare at Senior level. Unless during the 70s and 80s they formed a team of different clubs from teh West Clare region to play hurling. But then Wood would have to play for a hurling team in a non hurling area, when he is already from a strong hurling area so I doubt it but I stand to be proven wrong on this.

[paul_oshea]

I said hurling is not played in West Clare at Senior level
he played it at u16

[Roadend]

There is no West Clare hurling team.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah there is none at the moment and I dont think one ever existed but I would not swear on it and why would Keith Wood play for a west Clare hurling team that may or may not have existed in the past at some point when he is from East Clare which is wall to wall full of hurling teams. It does not make sense so it seems dubious if you ask me. West Clare is only Gaelic football really and and small bit of rugby and Football.

[NeilMcD]

Evidence of Hurling in West Clare

Clare Association Yearbook, 2003

John Rattigan, Curator, Clare Museum

In 1995, Christy Kelly, a farmer from Mullagh in West Clare, contacted the National Museum of Ireland to report a ball he had found years before on his land. It measured approximately 6.7 cm in diameter, and had been recovered from a trench he had been digging for gravel in 1980. On the same day he had located an old hearth, complete with charcoal at the same level. Mr Kelly kept the ball as a curiosity at his home for more than a decade, showing it to interested visitors and always intending to find out more about it. He suspected the mysterious object he had found was a type of hurling ball and following the Clare All-Ireland Hurling win of 1995, decided it was about time he contacted the National Museum.

Dr Anne O'Dowd of the Irish Folklife Division of the National Museum of Ireland confirmed the identity of the object as a hurling ball. To find a hurling ball in the football heartland of West Clare may seem strange today, but references in the Clare Journal of the 19th century indicate that hurling was once played in Kilkee.

Hurling is an ancient game and is attributed to the Celtic peoples of ancient Ireland, who appeared on the scene about 500 BC. The game of hurling is mentioned in the earliest Irish literature, written down by monks during the early medieval period, recording tales that originated in a much older, oral tradition.

Physical evidence for the ancient game of hurling is not unknown, and is found in the form of hair hurling balls, all made from the body hair of cattle and horses and all found at considerable depths in bogs. Eventhough they are organic in composition, these anaerobic (oxygen free) conditions provided by bogs, preserve them well.

Generally, hair hurling balls consist of a core of felted hair covered by a network of plaited cord made from the long tail hairs of the animal. These balls may have been used in earlier versions of the modern hurling game or in competitions such as the poc fada contests of today. Most of these balls have been located in Munster, with one found in Kilmihil in 1971, but an example found in County Sligo in the 1960's indicates a wider distribution.

However, Dr O'Dowd noted an unusual characteristic of the Mullagh ball: its surface was hard and shiny, resembling leather, but was entirely seamless. To find out more information, the ball was submitted to the State Laboratory for analysis. One of the functions of the State Laboratory is to provide technical and analytical assistance to museums concerned with the conservation and identification of historical artifacts. As the surface of the ball was slightly damaged during its recovery in 1980, a small sample could be easily taken for examination by the Laboratory staff. A report of the examination carried out on the ball was published by Conor Murphy, Joe Foley and Dr Anne O'Dowd in the Irish Scientist Yearbook of 1996.

The report noted that the ball was found to contain approximately 35% calcium phosphate, 5% Nitrogen, unusually high concentrations of Manganese, and traces of Iron. The high level of Manganese indicated a type of resin mix on the surface of the ball, perhaps as a preservative or colourant, while the calcium content suggested that egg yolk or a bone glue of animal origin was used to bind it together. It is thought that the seamless surface of the ball was created when coating was applied as a liquid or semi-liquid, which subsequently hardened. The traces of Iron suggested that the ball had been immersed in bog water at some point in the past, while the phosphorous content came from ground water it was exposed to while buried.

The depths at which hair hurling balls are found in bogs indicate the length of time they have been there and most of them have been found at least 5 feet down, indicating an age of 500 years or older. The depth at which the Mullagh ball was located, 18 inches, suggested to Dr O'Dowd that the ball was 19th century in date. In addition, Mr Kelly theorises that the find may be linked to the occupants of eleven mud-walled homes that stood nearby until the early 20th century.

This unique hurling ball roused great interest in the National Museum of Ireland, but was returned to Mr Kelly after its analysis in 1996. In an article in the Clare Champion in January 1997, Mr Kelly said he was disappointed the ball was not considered to be of a greater age, but added, "The important thing is that it is part of our heritage and I am determined to keep it here in Clare ". True to his word, in November 2001, Mr Kelly donated this unusual hurling ball to the collection at Clare Museum, where it is being kept for posterity. The Mullagh hurling ball is of a type previously unknown, and perhaps other examples are awaiting discovery

[geysir]

Scientific evidence to support the use of the term "bogball"? :)

[passinginterest]

I think the whole playing for West Clare thing probably stems from county trials. I played for south Wexford in trials at u14 and u16 but there's no club called south Wexford.

On the whole dream of playing in an FA cup final i think i probably dreamed of this as much as playing for Ireland when I was a child too. It's a fairly common aspiration for most people who take an interest in soccer, any time a foreign player arrives in England one of the first statements is always I dream of playing an FA cup final at Wembley.
Might not have been the right place to say it but I can see why he did.

[Roadend]

I live about 20 minutes from Killaloe, I am telling you there is no West Clare Hurling team, and especially not one that represents east clare.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah I agrew with you Roadend I just tried to cover myself in case of the unlikely even that there was a team during the 80s set up for a brief time called West Clare and that poached young guys from East Clare called Keith Wood to be in the team. But to be honest I would bet my rented house on the fact he did not pay for West Clare at any time.

[Guy Incognito]

Hi guys, I dont want to start a whole Killaloe/Ballina hoo ha here but could he not have crossed over the bridge in to Tipp to play his hurling?

And remeber, when Keith Wood was growing up Ireland weren't exactlly world class in soccer. Most peoples exposure to soccer would have been the FA cup. Growing up in the mid 80's I know it was for me. Pre Euro 88 Irish football always took a back seat.

[woodie]

Mr.Wood, my namesake, did play Under 16 hurling for Clare. Other members of that team included Anthony Foley, Jamsie O'Connor, Anthony Daly etc... The current Clare Manager, Tony Considine, was manager of that team. As far as I know, they won a Munster title. Considine said that Wood was very talented but became to immobile due to his size for top level hurling as he grew.

Also, as was rightly pointed out, Keith's father was a former international. He died when Keith was very young. So I cannot see why he wouldn't be dreaming of playing rugby for Ireland.

I am also around his age and I can say that I grew up dreaming of playing in FA Cup Finals. I used to get up early in the morning of the FA Cup Final and watch the coverage all day. It was the cup of glamour with great finals such as 79, 82, 85, 86, 89 etc... played in Wembley which seemed to have a mystical aura on tv. Watching Cup Finals in crumbling Dalymount certainly did not have the same element of glamour, especially as Rovers seemed to own the Cup.

Also, before Euro 88 there was not the same level of support for the soccer team outside of Dublin. The crowds were not tiny for games before the Charlton years as the media try to portray. We wouldn't moved from Dalymount if they were. However, they were certainly more Dubln based than they are today.

Anyway, to sum it up. I think anyone is entitled to whatever dreams they have. Keith Wood might have wanted to be a ballet dancer in Russia and that would be his divine right.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Keith Wood is a sporting legend. He would have made the grade in any sport he turned his hand to. It was such a pity injury curtailed his career.

[Macy]

Keith Wood is a sporting legend. He would have made the grade in any sport he turned his hand to. It was such a pity injury curtailed his career.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, he did make the financial decision to play much of his career in England with their high number of games which must have taken its toll, rather than a smaller contract and be nurtured by Munster/ Ireland.

[OwlsFan]

Not sure where this should go but thought maybe the Ireland forum was the place for it but did anybody see Keith Wood on BBC before the game on Sunday. He also said the same thing on Marian Finucane on Saturday also.

He said that when he was growing up Kids dreamed of playing Rugby for Ireland playing in an All Ireland and playing in an FA Cup Final.

I was struck by this in the same way that I was by Bertie saying he was a huge Sports fan who supports the Dubs and Utd on national TV.

The very leat Wood should have said was dreaming of playing for the Irish Football team.

I grew up in Dublin where BBC TV was broadcast in to our home with Grandstand, Match of the Day, Cricket test matches, Wimbledon tennis etc. I loved them all but also lived up the road from Milltown so while I dreamed of playing for the Owls (losing the FA Cup Final to Everton 3-2 in 1966 after being 2 up was devastating), I was also able to watch my Rovers sporting heroes and follow Ireland.

So my first loves were soccer and cricket and although we played GAA at national school, it did nothing for me and neither did the rugby at secondary school. Even though I went to Rovers week in, week out, there was something more "exotic" about English football played in a faraway land in black and white on the TV. I continued to follow Rovers for many years until we set up our own cricket club in the locality so that was the end of my SUnday afternoons following the Hoops plus the Dunphy supported sale of Milltown made travelling across the city less appealing.

It is interesting that the early influences of between (4 and 14) were those which stayed with me for life.

[endabob1]

This is a frankly a ridiculous argument, I am roughly the same age as Woody, I grew up in Rural Ireland and I shared the same sort of ambitions as an impressionable young lad. I wanted to score a goal like Ricky Villa at Wembley, I wanted to kick a drop goal to win the triple crown like Michael Kiernan, I wanted to score the winning goal in an all-Ireland like Seamus Darby.
Ireland were an underachieving international football team who were rarely live on TV and living down the country it wasn't possible to go to games in Dublin so my international football aspirations were tempered by the fact that without success, there wasn't that much to aspire to (although I still remember listening on the radio to the game in Belguim when Ireland missed out on qualification in 82). Ask kids who grew up during the Charlton years and they would all have wanted to score goals in the world cup for Ireland, not too much rugby glory to aspire to during the early 90's I think you'll find.

[NeilMcD]

Mr.Wood, my namesake, did play Under 16 hurling for Clare. Other members of that team included Anthony Foley, Jamsie O'Connor, Anthony Daly etc... The current Clare Manager, Tony Considine, was manager of that team. As far as I know, they won a Munster title. Considine said that Wood was very talented but became to immobile due to his size for top level hurling as he grew.

Also, as was rightly pointed out, Keith's father was a former international. He died when Keith was very young. So I cannot see why he wouldn't be dreaming of playing rugby for Ireland.

I am also around his age and I can say that I grew up dreaming of playing in FA Cup Finals. I used to get up early in the morning of the FA Cup Final and watch the coverage all day. It was the cup of glamour with great finals such as 79, 82, 85, 86, 89 etc... played in Wembley which seemed to have a mystical aura on tv. Watching Cup Finals in crumbling Dalymount certainly did not have the same element of glamour, especially as Rovers seemed to own the Cup.

Also, before Euro 88 there was not the same level of support for the soccer team outside of Dublin. The crowds were not tiny for games before the Charlton years as the media try to portray. We wouldn't moved from Dalymount if they were. However, they were certainly more Dubln based than they are today.

Anyway, to sum it up. I think anyone is entitled to whatever dreams they have. Keith Wood might have wanted to be a ballet dancer in Russia and that would be his divine right.



Nobody said he did not play for Clare. We said he did not play for West Clare as no team existed as West Clare is a footballing region of Clare and Keith Wood is from East Clare.

The original point was not that he dreamt of playing rugby for Ireland which I would expect but I found it strange that he dreamt of playing in a foreign Cup Final rather in a sport rather than play for his own country in that same sport.

Then again we did have our own Leader go onto a chat show saying he is a huge sports fan and supports the Dubs and Man Utd.

I cannnot see Tony Blair going on Parkinson saying he supports Juventus.


I travelled up with my family to Ireland games from 1986 onwards as we moved to Clare in 1986 but I do agree with you that Clare most people were oblivious to the national team. I was treated as some sort of freak in school for going to Ireland games and it involved my dad taking me out of school to go to the afternoon games on a Wednesday. After the Spain game in 1989 I had to do a presentation to the class on my trip "up to Dublin" to see the Irish team play. That was the novelty with which the Irish team was held in 1989 in West Clare.

[geysir]

Here's an actual reference to words from the big man's mouth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/02/10/srwood10.xml
"Killaloe, in Co Clare, is where I spent my formative years with a hurley in hand and dreamt of playing for my county. It was where I played every sport imaginable. But hurling was my first love. It is my favourite game to both play and watch. But, in fairness, there are not too many 17-stone hurlers around."
Sounds okay to me, sport loving kids have a multitude of dreams depending on whatever was happening. His Da just didn't bring him to the Irish soccer games.
It's an entirely different matter for Bertie, for whatever reason, parading his man u fixation.

[paul_oshea]

After the Spain game in 1989 I had to do a presentation to the class on my trip "up to Dublin" to see the Irish team play. That was the novelty with which the Irish team was held in 1989 in West Clare.

was this for your leaving cert geography class? :p

[woodie]

In fairness to Bertie, he grew up beside the Cat and Cage and was a Drums supporter before Shels move in. The only other club in his area back then was Bohs and he'd hardly have supported them!

[NeilMcD]

was this for your leaving cert geography class? :p

I was from Dublin so no.