Looking ahead - Wales

[elroy]

I know im looking ahead here but just saw the report from the Wales game last night on the BBC website. They will be missing Earnshaw, Koumas and Delaney for the game in Croker. In my opinion thats three of their best players gone - without doubt we should take three points. Other than giggs and bellamy there isnt a huge amount to be worried about.

[paul_oshea]

ya but knowing us. we should beat them, as we should beat slovakia but who knows. there have been some very strange results in this group :!

[shakermaker1982]

if we cannot beat this depleted Welsh team at home then we might as well give up now.

[dr_peepee]

They're probbly saying the same about us!!!

[eirebhoy]

Lewis Price (Ipswich Town)

Richard Duffy (Portsmouth - loan at Swansea)
Danny Gabbidon (West Ham United)
Lewin Nyatanga (Derby County)
Gareth Bale (Southampton)

Carl Robinson (Toronto FC)
Carl Fletcher (Crystal Palace)
Simon Davies (Fulham)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)

Craig Bellamy (Liverpool)
David Cotterill (Wigan)

Poor team tbh

[deadman]

poor XI true ... but, on current form, i'd prefere to be defending against Keane and Duff than Giggs and Bellamy

[Soper]

Cotterill won't start for Wales.They'll start with Bellamy on his own, or with Giggs playing just in behind him.They have a good midfield too, with solid if average holding players.Gabbiddon is good, as are a few others.Not as easy as you think

[eirebhoy]

poor XI true ... but, on current form, i'd prefere to be defending against Keane and Duff than Giggs and Bellamy
Richard Dunne is the type of player that Bellamy has trouble with. Giggs I agree with. Duff will be up against a player from league 1 though.


Cotterill won't start for Wales.They'll start with Bellamy on his own, or with Giggs playing just in behind him.They have a good midfield too, with solid if average holding players.Gabbiddon is good, as are a few others.Not as easy as you think
Was my predicted team pretty accurate then? :)

[liaml]

Giggs and Bellamy are both match winners. Gareth Bale is commanding fees of 10 million, more than any current Irish international. Wales are much better than Cyprus and I can see a draw in Cardiff - easily.

[Soper]

Near enough, except for a few.There's a few points of competition in the team, depends on injuries really.I'd expect Collins, Ledley and Parry to feature, as well as possibly Jermaine Easter (looks good).

I'd still say Northern Ireland are a bit better than them though.

[eirebhoy]

Giggs and Bellamy are both match winners. Gareth Bale is commanding fees of 10 million, more than any current Irish international. Wales are much better than Cyprus and I can see a draw in Cardiff - easily.
Ah, we'll be doing extremely well to beat them in Cardiff but we should really beat them in Croker.

[paul_oshea]

what about wales taking points off germany and czech in wales?

still so ****ed off they didnt hold on out in czech, that would have been a great result for us.

[Dodge]

Lewis Price (Ipswich Town)

Richard Duffy (Portsmouth - loan at Swansea)
Danny Gabbidon (West Ham United)
Lewin Nyatanga (Derby County)
Gareth Bale (Southampton)

Carl Robinson (Toronto FC)
Carl Fletcher (Crystal Palace)
Simon Davies (Fulham)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)

Craig Bellamy (Liverpool)
David Cotterill (Wigan)

Poor team tbh
Those highlighted would easily be on our team. The rest could argue their case

[Kingdom]

Yor off yor head with that one dodge. Giggs and Bellamy would be in our team at most. Davies has been shyte since he had one good season at Spurs a few years ago. One good season. If you had Giggs and Bellamy in our team Davies wouldn't fit.

[Dodge]

IMO Davies is poor enough. Still better than our options

[gustavo]

Yor off yor head with that one dodge. Giggs and Bellamy would be in our team at most. Davies has been shyte since he had one good season at Spurs a few years ago. One good season. If you had Giggs and Bellamy in our team Davies wouldn't fit.

How many ****e seasons has Kilbane had ? Or O'Shea and still they get in .
I would certainly have Davies in our squad we arent too overly blessed with players down the right side

[republicofwhite]

Saw a bit of the Northern Ireland vs Wales match last night(It was absolutely turgid) Norn Iron were far superior, absolutely all over them but couldn't score(surprise surprise) Admittedly, they didn't have Bale or Giggs, but Bellamy, Davies and Gabbidon were all playing. I have to say, Wales were so bad it gave me a lot of confidence. Had absolutely no cutting edge, desire or ability. All agaisnt opponents WIMO aren't up to much.

[EalingGreen]

Imo, Gabbidon, Bale, Giggs, Davies and Bellamy would get into a team picked from the two squads. (And if available, I'd have Koumas in, as well, though probably in place of Davies).
Consequently, I think the two teams are evenly matched. I think you'll do well to get a draw in Cardiff, though should hope (just) to beat them in Dublin.
I think a great deal rests on how motivated the teams are on the day.
As such, now that Toshack looks to be setting his own "stamp" on the team by getting rid of players he doesn't like, such as Savage, the Welsh players may have more belief in their manager's selection and tactics than the Irish do in Staunton.
That said, I think the Croker Factor will give you a huge boost.
A close call all round, I'd say.

[cavan_fan]

Imo, Gabbidon, Bale, Giggs, Davies and Bellamy would get into a team picked from the two squads. (And if available, I'd have Koumas in, as well, though probably in place of Davies).

But of these only Giggs and Bellamy are any good. The other 3 are there because of the weakness of some of our players:

I presume you mean
Bale instead of Harte/O'Shea at LB. Bale is a good prospect but no more at present.
Gabbidon instead of McShane. Gabiddon is a solid player no more.
Davies instead of Carsley or Ireland(?) The 2 Irish players are now regular Premiership players, Davies isnt.

The 6 Irish players I'd play are:

Given
Finnan
Dunne
Duff
McGeady
Keane/Doyle

All of these are quality players so really it's 6 Irish, 2 Welsh and 3 positions where there's not much in it (both teams have average players)

[eirebhoy]

Imo, Gabbidon, Bale, Giggs, Davies and Bellamy would get into a team picked from the two squads. (And if available, I'd have Koumas in, as well, though probably in place of Davies).
Consequently, I think the two teams are evenly matched.
We're not the greatest team in the world but I definitely don't agree with that, on paper anyway which is what we're going on.

Player for player this would probably make up the best teams:

------------------Given--------------
Finnan------Dunne----Delaney----Bale
McGeady----Carsley----S.Reid----Giggs
-------------Keane----Doyle----------

That's comparing like for like. Obviously you'd find a place for Duff and Bellamy in their too. Giggs is better than Duff and Keane has scored more than Bellamy every season.

There's no way I'd have Price over Given, Gabbidon over Dunne, Duffy over Finnan, Robinson over Carsley, Koumas over Reid, Davies over McGeady, Bellamy over Keane or Cotterill over Doyle.
There's also a big difference in standard between most of those players while Duff is as good as Giggs when on form (although hasn't been on form in a while).

No way are we evenly matched.

[reder]

I actually think Slovakia are a better side than Wales. I watched Wales v Slovakia and the slovaks destroyed them. They really took them to pieces.

On us against the welsh, all being fit and well we should get the points. It is going to be difficult. The Croke Park factor will actually work more against us than the welsh. It is a new setting for our lads and there will be a lot of OTT expectancy on their shoulders. It is just another away ground for Wales and any noise or atmosphere generated by us will have no effect on pro-footballers.

[paul_oshea]

no it wont have an effect on the opposition, but it should have for our lads.

[youngirish]

EalingGreen biased as ever. Davies instead of who? Ireland, Carsley, A Reid, S Reid? You smoking the crack or shootin the muck? Gabbidon? He is sh*te. Bellamy is no better than Keane and neither on current form are as good as Doyle. Both Keane and Bellamy blow hot and cold at different times.

We have way better players than Wales. We also have way better players than San Marino. We could have had the Brazilian first team playing for us last night and we still would have only scrapped a win. The whole Irish setup stinks, the manager is a dunce, the FAI are totally inept, the coaching staff don't have a clue and the players don't give a sh*t. The talent isn't the problem. It's your team the North that suffer in this regard.

[EalingGreen]

EalingGreen biased as ever. Davies instead of who? Ireland, Carsley, A Reid, S Reid? You smoking the crack or shootin the muck? Gabbidon? He is sh*te. Bellamy is no better than Keane and neither on current form are as good as Doyle. Both Keane and Bellamy blow hot and cold at different times.

We have way better players than Wales. We also have way better players than San Marino. We could have had the Brazilian first team playing for us last night and we still would have only scrapped a win. The whole Irish setup stinks, the manager is a dunce, the FAI are totally inept, the coaching staff don't have a clue and the players don't give a sh*t. The talent isn't the peoblem. It's your team the North that suffer in this regard.

This is what I originally posted:
"Imo, Gabbidon, Bale, Giggs, Davies and Bellamy would get into a team picked from the two squads. (And if available, I'd have Koumas in, as well, though probably in place of Davies).
Consequently, I think the two teams are evenly matched. I think you'll do well to get a draw in Cardiff, though should hope (just) to beat them in Dublin.
I think a great deal rests on how motivated the teams are on the day.
As such, now that Toshack looks to be setting his own "stamp" on the team by getting rid of players he doesn't like, such as Savage, the Welsh players may have more belief in their manager's selection and tactics than the Irish do in Staunton.
That said, I think the Croker Factor will give you a huge boost.
A close call all round, I'd say"

Since I am not a supporter of either team, I think I might claim to be less biased than you (I have never had any great fondness for the Taffs, btw).

And whilst I agree with your overall analysis of the problems which the ROI is currently facing, when things are so bad as they presently appear, I don't think you can avoid questioning the calibre of the players.
For example, Duff was outstanding when he was at Blackburn, with the prospects of developing into a truly world class player. This was why Chelsea shelled out so much money for him. That said, they also spent similar money on Robben and Wright-Phillips. Of these three similar players, only Robben has continued to progress (or "trained on", as they say in horseracing).
Which is not to say that Duff has become a bad player, or would not get into a combined ROI/Wales team; he can still go on to be a very good servant to his country, just without ever quite hitting the heights he was formerly thought capable of.

Anyhow, it doesn't really matter what either of us thinks about the respective merits of each team on paper; as ever, it's what happens out on the pitch that counts.

In the light of last night's debacle, your best (only?) bet against Wales may be if your players are so desperate to avoid further humiliation in front of 80,000+ fans at Croker, that they'll somehow fight their way to a result.

As the ROI performance against the Czechs showed, you can't rule that out, but you don't want to be depending on the "Embarrassment Card" every match (imo), otherwise, players will start to seek the easier way out i.e. suddenly developing mysterious injuries the weekend before a midweek international, which miraculously heal by the following weekend.

P.S. We're Northern Ireland (NI), not "the North" and we're not suffering too badly in any department these days, either!

[paul_oshea]

great time for ealinggreen to have posted the comments the last few days, and after last nights game, he has been completely justified.

what is their to look forward too? playing in one of the best stadiums in europe built up by an amateur organisation, played by amateurs who play their heart out for their county and get nothing in return, to watch over-paid muppets ( some who fall over and look for penalties at any given opportunity )who dont give 2 fcuks about the privilige they have to play for their country and talk sh1te about 3 points, results, lets get a "result", didnt get beat.....


minnows 1 muppets 2

[eirebhoy]

Duff was one of Chelsea's best players in his first season. The 2nd season (Mourinho's first) he was fantastic too. Mourinho said he was their best player. Since then though it's been downhill. Just pointing out that it wasn't the move to Chelsea that suddenly changed him.

It's "the north" to most of us btw whether some people like it or not. ;)

[EalingGreen]

It's "the north" to most of us btw whether some people like it or not. ;)

Aye, but you must surely understand why we're so keen not to be mistaken by anyone for you lot...:cool:

[youngirish]

Aye, but you must surely understand why we're so keen not to be mistaken by anyone for you lot...:cool:

A disaster for us is a 2-1 away win in a game we dominated. A disaster for NI is 40 games without a goal and 15 without a point as in the Sammy McElroy era. There's the difference.

[gustavo]

great time for ealinggreen to have posted the comments the last few days, and after last nights game, he has been completely justified.

what is their to look forward too? playing in one of the best stadiums in europe built up by an amateur organisation, played by amateurs who play their heart out for their county and get nothing in return, to watch over-paid muppets ( some who fall over and look for penalties at any given opportunity )who dont give 2 fcuks about the privilige they have to play for their country and talk sh1te about 3 points, results, lets get a "result", didnt get beat.....


minnows 1 muppets 2

On an aside is anyone else perterbed by the increasing use of the word "muppet" in Irish society , its a word that annoys me immensely for some reason.

[Marked Man]

On an aside is anyone else perterbed by the increasing use of the word "muppet" in Irish society , its a word that annoys me immensely for some reason.

Muppet.

[Prof Hoffman]

Bart: Dad, what's a Muppet?
Homer: Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know.

[paul_oshea]

i am perturbed, not perterbed gustavo.

[gustavo]

i am perturbed, not perterbed gustavo.
Ah right fair enough presumably the players give 2 fcuks about the privilege rather than the privilige

[Soper]

Gabbidon is in no way rubbish.I've seen him mark Del Piero out of a match.

[EalingGreen]

A disaster for us is a 2-1 away win in a game we dominated. A disaster for NI is 40 games without a goal and 15 without a point as in the Sammy McElroy era. There's the difference.

Good point, well made.

Except it was 13 games without a goal.

And we got a draw in four of those games - vs Spain, Ukraine (twice) and, ahem, Cyprus.

So it was never more than four consecutive games without a point.

And it's "McIlroy".

Anyhow, whether the ROI is in shallower doo-doo, deeper doo-doo, or just about the same doo-doo as we were then, there is still one key difference: McIlroy resigned at the end of our Disaster to take up another job, whereas Stan shows no sign of being offered one, even if he was of a mind to go elsewhere.

Apart from that, though, it was still a good post. :rolleyes:

P.S. I've just thought of another difference: Lawrie Sanchez :)

[youngirish]

P.S. I've just thought of another difference: Lawrie Sanchez :)
Unfortunately as stated earlier I don't think the Republic's problems start and end with Staunton though he is a major factor. I would swap Lawrie Sanchez for Staunton in a split second and I reckon he could do well but only with a complete restructuring of the organisation around him.

[Wolfie]

I've had a bad vibe about the Welsh game for weeks - so last nights horror show has added to the imagined nightmare ahead.

Cruel Sporting Gods (and Delaney, Stan et all) - Damn you to Hell!!!

[EalingGreen]

Unfortunately as stated earlier I don't think the Republic's problems start and end with Staunton though he is a major factor. I would swap Lawrie Sanchez for Staunton in a split second and I reckon he could do well but only with a complete restructuring of the organisation around him.

There is no way LS would even consider taking over the ROI. Think about it, the best he could ever hope for would be to take over a chronically under-performing team, turn it around, then set it on its way to over-performing. Which is fine, were it not that it's hardly guaranteed and even if he did, people would merely say "So what?" i.e. it's been done before. By him.
And in any case, he's made it quite clear he sees his future in club management, such that he'll leave NI when his contract expires at the end of the Euro Qualifiers (or the finals, if he gets us there!).
Of course, he has said he thinks he could combine a club job with NI on a part-time basis, but even if the club concerned were to agree (v.unlikely), I can't ever see a p-t manager being acceptable to the FAI.

Anyhow, that's not your biggest problem: your biggest problem will be replacing Staunton with somebody capable. No-one with a decent CV is going to want to touch it and anyone with a bit of sense will want to wait until things really have hit rock-bottom, in order to extinguish all unrealistic expectations, so that the only way for any new guy is up.
Unless, of course, you appoint someone who is either short of alternatives (O'Leary?), for which there is usually a reason, or take a chance on somebody who is eager but unproven. (Actually, scrub that last one, since that's what Staunton was...)

Worse still, if finding a replacement for Stan is your biggest problem, it's not actually your immediate problem: i.e. getting rid of him first.
As I see it, there's no way Delaney will sack him, since he's too convenient a "sandbag" to protect him (JD) from the muck and bullets aimed in both their directions. Plus it would cost a fortune in compensation, compensation which will be sorely needed to attract a new guy. Above all, if Stan were sacked, attention would immediately move to the guy who appointed him in the first place...

Therefore, he'll have to resign. Clearly, he's not going to want to do that, since he's a proud man and he won't want to forego a big pay-out, especially since his reputation is getting shredded so severely, he'll find it hard to get a decent alternative job.

Which leads to a further problem. If he can stagger on getting the odd half-decent result (Czech, Germany etc), then you could be stuck with him for another year or more. Alternatively, if the next few results are more like Cyprus or San Marino, then the pressure will become unbearable, and he'll have to resign.

Neither option is palatable, since the former would only delay the start of the repairs needed and the latter would deepen the extent of it.

But worse, much worse than any of that, is that even once you've got rid of Stan and appointed someone in his place, his successor can only hope to do a good job despite the circumstances he finds himself in, not because of them. That is because, as you rightly point out, many of the problems are not really to do with the senior team management, even if they (the problems) eventually end up making the manager's job harder.

A good appointment will only allow the Blazers to kid themselves everything is really OK and a bad appointment, well, you really don't need another one of those.

Now I daresay anyone still reading will ask, "What the feck business is it of yours what's happening and what does you know about it, anyway?" The first question is fair enough, but I only offer my opinion from a feeling that I've seen this situation before.
You see, the ROI under Stan are exactly where NI were under Sammy Mc.
and we only got out of that through pure luck.
First, Stockport offered to take Sammy off our hands (he's managing Morecambe in the Conference now, btw) and second, the clear favourite for the job was Jimmy Nicholl (now Assistant Manager at Aberdeen).
However, Jimmy Nic turned it down because the money wasn't enough (the second time he'd done that!), which left Lawrie as "Hobson's Choice".

Still, if the "Luck of the Irish" worked once for us, maybe it can do the same for you...;)

[Wolfie]

There is no way LS would even consider taking over the ROI.

Someone with a name like Sanchez could setlle in well with us "Wee Mexicans".

[bennocelt]

EalingGreen biased as ever. Davies instead of who? Ireland, Carsley, A Reid, S Reid? You smoking the crack or shootin the muck? Gabbidon? He is sh*te. Bellamy is no better than Keane and neither on current form are as good as Doyle. Both Keane and Bellamy blow hot and cold at different times.

We have way better players than Wales. We also have way better players than San Marino. We could have had the Brazilian first team playing for us last night and we still would have only scrapped a win. The whole Irish setup stinks, the manager is a dunce, the FAI are totally inept, the coaching staff don't have a clue and the players don't give a sh*t. The talent isn't the problem. It's your team the North that suffer in this regard.

thats not true
for me Gabidon is an ace player
Bellamy can score goals, and Giggs is Giggs
i think Wales might embaress us in Croker

[brine3]

There is no point in comparing the Welsh and Irish players. You could compare the Irish and San Marino players too.

The main comparison to be made is that Wales are managed by John Toshack (who managed Real Madrid, Sporting Lisbon, Sociedad, Deportivo, Besiktas) and we are managed by Pinger Staunton (who managed nobody).

We will be battered.

[ollie]

There is no point in comparing the Welsh and Irish players. You could compare the Irish and San Marino players too.

The main comparison to be made is that Wales are managed by John Toshack (who managed Real Madrid, Sporting Lisbon, Sociedad, Deportivo, Besiktas) and we are managed by Pinger Staunton (who managed nobody).

We will be battered.


football is played on the field and not off it!

[Qwerty]

This board is sinking like the Irish team...so why bother having managers at all if that is what you think?

Take 11 professional players and 1 manager, who do you think is the most important individual there? That is what is call a no-brainer question.

[ollie]

This board is sinking like the Irish team...so why bother having managers at all if that is what you think?

Take 11 professional players and 1 manager, who do you think is the most important individual there? That is what is call a no-brainer question.

True but they can only do so much.
going by the comment by brine3 this person thinks since Toshack is a much more qualified manager that we will get hammered reagrdless of the quality of players at each managers disposal.

[Soper]

Toshack seems to have lost his ability to organazize a team to score

[mypost]

The next one after Wales is Slovakia at home. Slovakia are just another run-of-the-mill side who put 6 past Cyprus, and 5 in at Wales.

So how many will they get against our "defence"?? :confused: :rolleyes:

[tricky_colour]

Toshack seems to have lost his ability to organazize a team to score

He's not related to Staunton is he by any chance?


Or maybe they both have bird flu and it's a symptom?

[Soper]

Must be a Liverpool curse.

[Billsthoughts]

Aye, but you must surely understand why we're so keen not to be mistaken by anyone for you lot:
:D :D exellent!

A disaster for us is a 2-1 away win in a game we dominated. A disaster for NI is 40 games without a goal and 15 without a point as in the Sammy McElroy era. There's the difference.

excellenter!!!!!!:D

[ShelsLimerick]

Anyone know when the tickets go on sale for this? I presume they will go on general sale. Can't see them filling Croker after recent results.