Irish Founding Fathers

[kingdom hoop]

The supposed involvement of one paddy mccarthy in the establishment of boca juniors got me thinking about where else great irishmen planted seeds of the beautiful game around the globe. the first example that sprang to mind was athenian club panathinaikos(i remember george hamilton making some reference to an irish priest and the clubs crest, a shamrock, in a CL match years ago). however after a cursory glance at wikipedia and a few club history pages there was no mention of any irish involvement. does anyone no more about this club, or others around the world.

i was thinking we could also discuss some obscure, but not so historical, escapades of irishmen spreading the gospel, eg when ronnie whelan was manager of panionios

[Dodge]

Neither Panathinaikos nor Boca Juniors have any irish roots.

I think there's a couple of clubs in Scotland but not sure of their names...

[Poor Student]

Needless to say lets not bother going over the Scottish clubs in this thread.

[kingdom hoop]

Neither Panathinaikos nor Boca Juniors have any irish roots.



aw, such a spoilsport. the shamrock is an irish root, a registered trademark of ireland indeed. a folklore discussion is inherently dubious and therefore easily refutable, if you just say 'no' we may as well not bother. any enthusiasm i had has been drained, like a sagging shamrock after 12 pints on patricks day.:)

[Dodge]

Apologies to all...

[NeilMcD]

Patrick O Connell was not not involved in the foundation of Spanish clubs but he is a legend at Betis and Barcelona winningi the title with both clubs and its the only time that Betis have one the league.

[Dodge]

He's not a legend at barcelona. He might be known by some but he could never be called a legend

[bennocelt]

Neither Panathinaikos nor Boca Juniors have any irish roots.

I think there's a couple of clubs in Scotland but not sure of their names...

im still with the paddy macca and boca idea, by the way:)

[NeilMcD]

He's not a legend at barcelona. He might be known by some but he could never be called a legend

Well its probably so long ago that people dont remember it but to win league titles and to help save the club financially but taking them on a tour of the USA during the Civil War is pretty good going.

[Dodge]

Well its probably so long ago that people dont remember it but to win league titles and to help save the club financially but taking them on a tour of the USA during the Civil War is pretty good going.

They went on that tour to save their lives, not for money and it wasn't his idea. LOADS of managers have won titles at Barca. He's more noticeable to us, but he's a footnote there

[NeilMcD]

Well I would consider him a footnote in Irish history as most IRish people would not even know he exists. Of course the players went on a tour to save their lives but The future of Barcelona was also helped by the money they made on the tour. Anyway I am sure you can go around the rest of the net and find out little slight in accuracies if you so plese.

[Dodge]

I happen to have quite an interest in Barca and being Irish he's obviously of major interest to me. I was just pointing out that you overhyping him does him no favours. They weren't slight errors, they were just plain crap...

[dancinpants]

im still with the paddy macca and boca idea, by the way:)


Even Boca's official site credits their foundation to 5 Italian immigrants, and surprisingly none of them were called Paddy McCarthy.

[bennocelt]

Even Boca's official site credits their foundation to 5 Italian immigrants, and surprisingly none of them were called Paddy McCarthy.

so what?
i have met Argies that still refuse to accept that an irish man set up their Navy

[dancinpants]

so what?


Ah OK then, yer right :rolleyes:

[bennocelt]

Ah OK then, yer right :rolleyes:

funny guy:rolleyes:

if you believed everything from footy sites, then Eric Cantona must be manure untides greatest ever player!

anyway
lets look at a few pointers

numerous sources talk about this Paddy Macca character and Boca Juniors, that cant be denied, i have heard of this story many times myself,
so if there are sources then the logical question would be how and why do they talk about this link?
and we do know that there were a lot of active irish men (and british - who brough football to argentina) in argentina at this time
on the boca website it doesnt mention him but the italian sailors, yes, but that wouldnt exactly be used as pure evidence, now would it?!
what we need is TG4 do go there, im sure they would collect some decent evidence;)

to totally dismiss it cause you goggled it or went to the boca site doesnt prove anything, and doesnt prove why there is this link
if you could give me a good explanantion of why paddy macca and boca are linked in certain sources then i could follow your arguments
but just saying "no" , doesnt prove anything

[Dodge]

Would you give it up bennocelt, you're 100% wrong. Stop making yourself look thick

[bennocelt]

Would you give it up bennocelt, you're 100% wrong. Stop making yourself look thick

yeah good reply, indepth, and exactly in tune with your previous answers, t w at

explain this then................" Paddy McCarthy (1871-1963) of Cashel, Co. Tipperary, is hired by Club Atlético Gimnasia y Esgrima of Buenos Aires to train its players. He was also coach of Boca Juniors, referee of the Argentine Association Football League during eighteen years, and one of the first professional boxers in Argentina (1904)."
http://www.irishargentine.org/timeline2.htm

interesting indeed

if anyone can speak spanish this looks interesting too!
http://www.elmundo.es/2000/11/27/deportes/27N0054.html

[GavinZac]

yeah good reply, indepth, and exactly in tune with your previous answers, t w at

explain this then................" Paddy McCarthy (1871-1963) of Cashel, Co. Tipperary, is hired by Club Atlético Gimnasia y Esgrima of Buenos Aires to train its players. He was also coach of Boca Juniors, referee of the Argentine Association Football League during eighteen years, and one of the first professional boxers in Argentina (1904)."
http://www.irishargentine.org/timeline2.htm

interesting indeed

if anyone can speak spanish this looks interesting too!
http://www.elmundo.es/2000/11/27/deportes/27N0054.html

so he didnt set it up.
thanks for your humble admittance it must have been though, but as kenny says, know when to fold 'em

[Dodge]

yeah good reply, indepth, and exactly in tune with your previous answers, t w at

explain this then................" Paddy McCarthy (1871-1963) of Cashel, Co. Tipperary, is hired by Club Atlético Gimnasia y Esgrima of Buenos Aires to train its players. He was also coach of Boca Juniors, referee of the Argentine Association Football League during eighteen years, and one of the first professional boxers in Argentina (1904)."
http://www.irishargentine.org/timeline2.htm

interesting indeed

if anyone can speak spanish this looks interesting too!
http://www.elmundo.es/2000/11/27/deportes/27N0054.html
LMAO, you call me a **** and then prove me right and yourself wrong.

what a ****ing thick

[dancinpants]

Oh thats gotta be embarassing :o

:D

[bennocelt]

god man ye guys are funny!!

facts..............paddy macca
the british brought football to argentina
"british" who arrived included lots of irish and scottish
paddy macca set up lots of football clubs all aorund argentina, was coach of boca
many sources say he founded boca juniors, with 5 italian guys

now its hardly a huge jump to say he helped found Boca juniors from all these facts, unless you are stupid which most clearly some of ye are

my point , which i guess ye missed, is that you cant just knock numerous sources witout at leats doing some background checks
and yes, i still , for one, believe that paddy macca had a helping hand in setting up boca

i guess i will have to trawl the net for more sources!!

(oh by the way.i knew what i was posting in the last one.......well spotted (Claps all around!!), just to get you thinking that there is a Paddy macca, and he was heavily involved in football in argentina at this time, and with boca), still doesnt prove me wrong though, god ye guys arent much good at history are you!)


http://www.rockspringssports.com/spo..._history.shtml
http://www.wayso.net/soccer_history.htm

[Dodge]

Keep going :D

[bennocelt]

Keep going :D

will do;)

[kingdom hoop]

i thought terry 'pacy' phelan was a coach in carolina, but in fact for two seasons has been player/coach of otago united who are from dunedin and play in the New Zealand league. he was widely feted as the best player to ever grace the league on his arrival(though i guess when ex-middlesboro and crystal palace defender dean gordon(remember him!!) is your nearest competition thats not a great claim to fame!)


terry clearly hasnt lost his competitive edge either, after a recent match he commented;
"I expect to win and if there is anything wrong with expecting to win then I might as well leave and sit on a beach. We go 2-1 up with three minutes to go and we give a stupid goal away...it was three points lost." .

he appears to be making an impact on the local scene having recounted stories from his irish days as a guest speaker at a local sports awards night, apparently entertaining the crowd with anecdotes.

the fans of otago(bout 800) seem very pleased to have him;I can tell you he has put the boots on, and subbed himself at half time. It was an average performance, still probably better than most on the field.

He's made a name for himself here as one hell of a hard but fair and impeciably professional gaffer. How we got him to ply his trade here is beyond me, but we appreciate it and he has us up to 4th in the table and 2 of his boys are in the national squad (due to play Charlton Athletic and Crystal Palace in London late July).

Anyway we have him on a 2 year contract, and we all down here in Dunedin would love to see him come off the bench, he's kitted up a couple of times now."

phelan completed otago's most recent game, a fair achievement at forty. the team are currently second from bottom of the league so i'm not sure if all terry's work will come to fruition, its probably a sow's ear type situation though in fairness. a 'terry phelan otago' google search should yield some more info, a really great pro and its an honour to have him had represented us.

[BohsPartisan]

Aparantly Shamrock Rovers are the only club in Dublin founded by Irish men. :p

[EalingGreen]

god man ye guys are funny!!

facts..............paddy macca
the british brought football to argentina
"british" who arrived included lots of irish and scottish
paddy macca set up lots of football clubs all aorund argentina, was coach of boca
many sources say he founded boca juniors, with 5 italian guys

now its hardly a huge jump to say he helped found Boca juniors from all these facts, unless you are stupid which most clearly some of ye are

my point , which i guess ye missed, is that you cant just knock numerous sources witout at leats doing some background checks
and yes, i still , for one, believe that paddy macca had a helping hand in setting up boca

i guess i will have to trawl the net for more sources!!

http://www.rockspringssports.com/spo..._history.shtml
http://www.wayso.net/soccer_history.htm

Benno, I think you should let Boca know what you've found, since they seem unaware of it. Their Official Site (English Version) merely states the following:

"Boca Juniors was born on Monday april 3rd,1905, when five young boys who lived in La Boca neighbourhood (Esteban Baglietto, Alfredo Scarpatti, Santiago Sana and brothers Juan and Teodoro Farenga) got together at Solís Square with the intention to found a football club.

Without even imagining it, this group of italian inmigrants wrote the first pages of the rich history of Argentina’s most popular football club.

The name of the club was taken from that of the neighbourhood but the word "Juniors" was added to give it an english tone and enhance it with more prestige, in order to counteract the “difficult neighbourhood” fame La Boca had gained at that time"
( http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/english/elclub_historia.php )

While you're at it, you might also add to the club's otherwise extensive Wikipedia entry, since there is no mention of Paddy McCarthy anywhere:
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/english/elclub_historia.php

P.S. Is it possible that Paddy McCarthy introduced Professional Boxing to Argentina as well?

[EalingGreen]

Another example of Irish influence on overseas football? ;)

Football was introduced in Malta at the end of the 18th Century by the British troops stationed on the island. At that time Malta formed part of the British Empire and, the Island was the base of British forces in the heart of the Mediterranean.

The British forces in Malta were mainly stationed in the three cities, Mtarfa, Tigne', St Andrews and in Floriana. The forces' barracks, which were strategically located around the Island, enjoyed large areas that were used as parade grounds, training areas and for sporting activities. The sports practised by the soldiers were mainly cricket, hockey and football.

Obviously, the locals who were influenced by the soldiers stationed in the area were introduced to these sporting activities. The most popular sports amongst the residents of Floriana was football, however some also practised cricket and hockey. It is worth noting at this juncture that Floriana still has its hockey club.

It is said that at the end of the 18th Century a group of youngsters from Floriana, assisted by soldiers based in the area, formed the first football team. It is understood that this team held football matches against another team formed in Cospicua, the St George's. There is also historical proof that both teams were the first football teams in Malta. However there is evidence that FFC was established in 1894, which makes it the first football club set up on the Island.

Between 1894 and 1905 the club's colours were green/red quartered shirts, black shorts with green and red socks. The official colours of the club as we know them today, green and white vertical striped shirts, white shorts and green/white horizontal striped socks, were introduced in 1905. At that time the Royal Irish Fusiliers were stationed in Floriana. During that year, three friendly matches were held between this regiment and FFC, at the end of the final match both teams exchanged their shirts and, the officials of the Irish Fusiliers expressed their wish that FFC changed their official colours to their green and white shirts. Incidentally, this regiment left the Island in that same year.

The ties between Floriana and the Royal Irish Fusiliers were so strong that the people hailing from Floriana were nicknamed after the Irish, "Tal-Irish".
( http://www.florianafc.com/history.htm )

[bennocelt]

Benno, I think you should let Boca know what you've found, since they seem unaware of it. Their Official Site (English Version) merely states the following:

While you're at it, you might also add to the club's otherwise extensive Wikipedia entry, since there is no mention of Paddy McCarthy anywhere:
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/english/elclub_historia.php

P.S. Is it possible that Paddy McCarthy introduced Professional Boxing to Argentina as well?

nooooooooooooooooooooo, i wont let it go
i have my argentina friend on the case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way...wikipedia isnt exactly a reliable source, but you know that already!

[Leeza]

What about Che 'lynch' Guevara?

Not exactly football, I know...