View Full Version : Bohs Accept Ward Bid
Billsthoughts
15/01/2007, 12:09 PM
honest I havent. gamble , o donnovon I have heard first about on here.
everyone in the country knows who jason byrne is. thats it.
cant think of any other that gets amention on here.....maxi?
youngirish
15/01/2007, 12:10 PM
They lost on the opening day.Doyle then got his chance (or so I remember).Hardly ages.
Maybe you should let someone who watches championship matches every second week in person judge the standard of Championship everything (coaching, players).
Sligo Rovers have better training facilities than Cardiff City.FACT.
The Championship is not the holy grail of football.Ireland fans, get off your high horses.
Kitson was injured on the opening day. Himself and Lita were the regular starters for the next 5-6 games until he got injured again but don't let the facts obstruct you when making a point.
On that note I'll take your other FACT with a pinch of salt if you don't mind.
youngirish
15/01/2007, 12:12 PM
honest I havent. gamble , o donnovon I have heard first about on here.
everyone in the country knows who jason byrne is. thats it.
cant think of any other that gets amention on here.....maxi?
Which is exactly why it should have been posted on here to inform you. EL fans you really need to get those chips off your shoulders.
gustavo
15/01/2007, 12:22 PM
Which is exactly why it should have been posted on here to inform you. EL fans you really need to get those chips off your shoulders.
Surely if one wished to be informed on eircom League players then the eircom League forum would be a better place to go,
youngirish
15/01/2007, 12:26 PM
Surely if one wished to be informed on eircom League players then the eircom League forum would be a better place to go,
Is this for real man? It's obvious Billsthoughts has never been to the EL forum and the lad is going to Wolves.
Soper
15/01/2007, 12:32 PM
Kitson was injured on the opening day. Himself and Lita were the regular starters for the next 5-6 games until he got injured again but don't let the facts obstruct you when making a point.
On that note I'll take your other FACT with a pinch of salt if you don't mind.
I said ''if I remember correctly'.I could have been wrong.
On the FACT question, fine.Dave Jones must have been wrong:rolleyes:
Can anyone point me to threads discussing Joe Gamble & Roy O'Donovan considering they are after all B Internationals ?
:confused:
Waiting...
(BTW if i see those threads i will tone the rhetoric down)
gustavo
15/01/2007, 12:42 PM
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=35848&highlight=gamble
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=21500&highlight=gamble
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=2199&highlight=gamble
Donal81
15/01/2007, 1:00 PM
What gets me is that people can't understand the el fan's POV and actually think it makes US look small minded...
I'm not calling anyone small-minded and can appreciate why a fan of an Eircom League club feels underwhelmed when one of their players goes to England. It's the "here come the ole ole brigade" rubbish that I can't stand and that has absolutely no place on this forum. Everyone here took the time out to sign up to this website and all the posters so far involved in this argument post regularly, commenting on Irish football. For someone to just bleat out this "ole ole" argument about people on this site - and for mods to take it seriously - just because they're not a signed up member of the 400 Club is disgraceful.
If you want a target for your "ole ole" 'argument', go to the corporate suites where people are there with free tickets from the FAI as it's a good networking opportunity. Sure it's good craic and we'll have a singalong if that Richie Keane fella scores and does his somersault. Have a go at those. Don't have a go at people who are here posting about Irish football and don't happen to support an Eircom League club.
This thread is six pages long now and instead of it relating to the transfer of a young Irish player to a big English club, we're getting bogged down with this nonsense discussion.
Billsthoughts
15/01/2007, 1:01 PM
Is this for real man? It's obvious Billsthoughts has never been to the EL forum and the lad is going to Wolves.
I do the odd time to check on the broader stuff.
jesus I should get me own thread!
I was just pointing out I would have fitted the profile bein suggested earlier and I have never heard of ward thus the implication that he was discussed a lot before on this forum would seem to be false.
If you want a target for your "ole ole" 'argument', go to the corporate suites where people are there with free tickets from the FAI as it's a good networking opportunity. Sure it's good craic and we'll have a singalong if that Richie Keane fella scores and does his somersault. Have a go at those. Don't have a go at people who are here posting about Irish football and don't happen to support an Eircom League club.
But the point we make is how can you support Irish soccer if you don't support your local side? I'd also ask what makes you better than those who get the free ticket?
youngirish
15/01/2007, 1:08 PM
I do the odd time to check on the broader stuff.
jesus I should get me own thread!
I was just pointing out I would have fitted the profile bein suggested earlier and I have never heard of ward thus the implication that he was discussed a lot before on this forum would seem to be false.
He has been discussed here at least a couple of times before. I'm sure someone can find you the thread. I can't locate it.
But the point we make is how can you support Irish soccer if you don't support your local side? I'd also ask what makes you better than those who get the free ticket?
Because I'm Irish and I'm proud to be Irish. And I'm always interested in following the careers of the best Irish players (nearly all of whom play abroad) and not the poorer players who are never going to be good enough (this is the vast majority of players in the EL bar a handful of notable exceptions). I also think the FAI is run by a shower of wanke*s who consistently ruin our chances at international level with their amateurish setup and numerous blunderings (appointing Stan) even though IMO we nearly always have the talent to qualify for major tournaments. I therefore am not too keen to be providing them with more of my hard earned bucks to p*ss away.
eirebhoy
15/01/2007, 1:13 PM
I do the odd time to check on the broader stuff.
jesus I should get me own thread!
I was just pointing out I would have fitted the profile bein suggested earlier and I have never heard of ward thus the implication that he was discussed a lot before on this forum would seem to be false.
I never said he was discussed a lot but if you're a regular poster here and follow the Irish players I'm very suprised you didn't know Ward.
Go here:
http://foot.ie/search.php
and search for the word Ward. "Search in forums" = Ireland.
He has been in and out of the U21s for the last 3 years (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=14067&highlight=ward).
But the point we make is how can you support Irish soccer if you don't support your local side?
I live in Grand Canal street so never grew up with a "local" side. I may live closer to somewhere like Richmond than plenty of Cork fans do to Turners Cross but to me Cork City are representing the city of Cork. Cork to Cork people is nothing like Dublin to Dublin people. Most of us couldn't care what county Duff is from as long as he's Irish. It's not the same with Cork. If you're from any part of Cork then you'll feel proud to see Cork City do well. I don't really know what I'm trying to say tbh but a local team for Dubs is really local. :)
A couple of years ago I went to a few Pats matches with my nephew and I really wanted to become a supporter but I just had no affinity with them. I still follow the league and will go to the odd game, watch most of the televised games.
NeilMcD
15/01/2007, 1:14 PM
I think there is too much labelling in this thread to be honest. Too many "EL Brigade" comments and "Ole Ole Brigade" comments. I think that does not add to the debate in anyway. For what its worth I think there is nothing wrong with a player who goes to an English club being discussed in the Ireland forum but I would say that if people call for him to be in the senior squad due to where i.e. what country, he plays his football then that is wrong. Ward was a long way off best player in the Bohs team and I think he is a long way off to be in an Ireland full sqaud. Nothing wrong with his transfer to Wolves being discussed in both the EL forum and the Ireland forum in my view.
storm in a tea cup I'd call it
anyway - best of luck to Ward.
Its great to see players get a chance and el clubs get a fair transfer for them.
I hope he makes an impact. The same with all the players who have recently switched to Scotland and Championship sides.
It can only benefit the EL in the long run if a fair percentage of these players go on to make big impacts cross channel. Transfer fees will rise steadily.
on a related point I disagree that we're witnessing a haemorrage of "talent" - as mentioned in the Tribune. A lot of these transfers are speculative - Ward has been bought on potential alone - he only scored 1 goal last season (AFAIK)
Keegan and Molloy are the Old Age Pensioners of teh league and hardly "rising stars" - good players but again no loss in the overall scheme of things.
Dillon - a loss no question - but no Owen Heary in fairness.
Bobby Ryan - again no spring chicken.
Byrne - the best striker in the league - but once again has had plenty of seasons in football here.
cavan_fan
15/01/2007, 1:28 PM
What are the clubs going to do with 'all' this money. For the good of Irish football I'd like to see it used to keep young Irish players for 1-2 years more (e.g. Connor Clifford). But I wonder if they will start to prey on poorer leagues, might there be an influx of cheap Lithuanian talent?
What are the clubs going to do with 'all' this money. For the good of Irish football I'd like to see it used to keep young Irish players for 1-2 years more (e.g. Connor Clifford). But I wonder if they will start to prey on poorer leagues, might there be an influx of cheap Lithuanian talent?
Good question. Unfortunately the figures as they curently stand - for transfers would not pay for infrastructural projects - ie ground developments. The money would than go to meet the current costs of running a professional EL team - ie wages - for current and new players. I doubt if there will be an influx of Lithuanian players. There are very few Eastern European players who have ever made a go of it in Irish football.
And, I'm open to coreection but we were rapidly catching up on many of the smaller eastern euro nations in terms of UEFA ranking.
If you want a target for your "ole ole" 'argument', go to the corporate suites where people are there with free tickets from the FAI as it's a good networking opportunity
Do you honestly think that the FAI are going to turn around to their biggest corporate sponsors and say "by the way, we appreciate the money but you'll have to buy your tickets like everyone else and sit in the bucket seats in the North Terrace"? Cop on. :rolleyes:
Sponsors such as Eircom, Umbro, FIAT, and some of the banks and building socs, pour money into Irish football, and they get free tickets in return, it's a fact of life and it's not going to change. It's the bogger saps in jester hats with families in tow that get to most people, I'd imagine. Telling people to sit down and stop swearing, as they cannot see the match, because they're used to watching football on the telly.
:rolleyes:
Donal81
15/01/2007, 2:04 PM
But the point we make is how can you support Irish soccer if you don't support your local side? I'd also ask what makes you better than those who get the free ticket?
I don't support a local side because there was no local side to support when I was growing up. Soccer was always my first game and I played it at juvenile level until I was 17. I continue to play it socially. Is it my fault that I didn't have a club to support? Come on Dodge.
Christ, I'm not a better person than someone in a corporate suite. But if the person is there for the networking opportunities, I'd guess that I'm more of a fan than he is. I don't have issues with this, the FAI needs the cash (other than the time my German boss got a ticket to the Ireland/France game thanks to Eircom and spent the next day telling hilarious tales about "all those men in nylon tops"), but what we have here is one group of supporters slagging off another group of supporters for their supposed lack of support and it's lousy.
Donal81
15/01/2007, 2:08 PM
Do you honestly think that the FAI are going to turn around to their biggest corporate sponsors and say "by the way, we appreciate the money but you'll have to buy your tickets like everyone else and sit in the bucket seats in the North Terrace"? Cop on. :rolleyes:
I understand the concept of corporate sponsorship, thanks very much. If you read my post, you'd see that I was using corporate suites as a comparison with people who support Ireland and go to games regularly, not questioning the concept of corporate sponsorship (although thanks for the explanation on how it works).
It's the bogger saps in jester hats with families in tow that get to most people, I'd imagine. Telling people to sit down and stop swearing, as they cannot see the match, because they're used to watching football on the telly.
:rolleyes:
Really? Because there seems to be an awful lot of people on this forum who go to games regularly but still get abuse for not supporting a local side.
Donal
pm me your address and I will send you out details of the Pats season tickets. Problem solved everyone is happy.
Really? Because there seems to be an awful lot of people on this forum who go to games regularly but still get abuse for not supporting a local side.
Same thing really. If people call themselves fans, yet don't support the domestic game in any way, either at a junior or senior level, then their whole experience of Irish football should be lousy. They deserve a lousy team, a lousy manager, players with lousy attitudes, a lousy CEO with a lousy attitude towards FIFA directives. Never mind being made fun of on the internet. :rolleyes: If only that was the worst part of following Ireland.
cavan_fan
15/01/2007, 2:14 PM
Can someone explain how a thread about Bohs selling Ward has turned into one about corporate hosiptality at Ireland games?
Superhoops
15/01/2007, 2:28 PM
.......It can only benefit the EL in the long run if a fair percentage of these players go on to make big impacts cross channel. Transfer fees will rise steadily......
There is a school of thought including many on this site who believe that movement of our best players cross channel or anywhere else is detrimental to the EL and that the standard will never be raised if this outflow continues.
My own view is that whether we like it or not, the EL will always be feeder league to cross channel and other places, and clubs when they have the opportunity should maxmise their income with transfer fees which in turn, help sustain those clubs. This is not a lack of ambition at all, but it is simply a fact that there is not and never will be a big enough demand for EL football among supporters/tv/sponsorhip to make all but the biggest of clubs financially viable, part of which involves EL clubs ability to compete with cross channel clubs in respect of players wages.
From a players point of view, there are very few players, who, given the opportunity, would not want to have a go at making it the higher standard of football offered across the channel. If they don't make they generally come back to EL anyway.
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=35848&highlight=gamble
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=21500&highlight=gamble
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=2199&highlight=gamble
Proves my point.
All threads started by eL fans. One for was his U21 days when he had just left Reading. In all those threads non-eL people arguing against his inclusion in forum...
paul_oshea
15/01/2007, 3:31 PM
dodge and wws get real, for those that go to all the ireland matches and are 40 miles at the very least from any EL side should all of a sudden swear allegiance to sSt Pats ( wws ) and are not "true irish supporters" ( which is what you are directly infering ) is bloody ridiculous, thats just as bad as all the young fellas at home jumping ship and going supporting chelsea over the last 2 years. Also, for all those plastics who spend a lot of hard-earned cash travelling europe ( and the world ) to see ireland play both home and away should in some way be involved with EL soccer to be "proper irish" supporters is even more ridiculous.....
for fecks sake it was a tongue in cheek suggestion, lighten up
NeilMcD
15/01/2007, 3:51 PM
I think going to games week in week out is something that EL fans should consider themselves lucky to do. I cant stand people who look down on the EL and take the **** out of it while calling clubs in England we etc etc. However at the same time I dont think a snobbish attitude adopted by some members who go to EL week in week out is healthy either. I think the overall goal is to get people who may be interested in supporting a local EL to go to as many games as possible. This is not as easy for people who live in Clare, or Meath or Wexford etc. They dont have a League of Ireland team to follow and as a result the Ireland team becomes their team that they follow. I would not consider these people OLE OLE OLE people just cause they dont have an EL team. But if you are asking me which is better, watching a game on the tv or watching a game live in Dalymount or Richmond Park or Tolka Park, give me the live game any day of the week.
paul_oshea
15/01/2007, 4:22 PM
Clare, or Meath or Wexford etc.
far more than just those counties!!!
Wexford will have a team next season.
English people don't seem to have trouble supporting domestic teams in the next town/county over, same with Welsh football fans:confused:
Wexford will have a team next season.
English people don't seem to have trouble supporting domestic teams in the next town/county over, same with Welsh football fans:confused:
Irish people dont seem to have a problem supporting a team in another country so i dont see why another county would be too hard
passinginterest
15/01/2007, 4:36 PM
I think the point on many Irish people following the national team because they don't have a local side to support is very true. Growing up in Wexford the nearest teams would have been Waterford, Kilkenny or Bray and with county rivalry the way it is in Ireland plus travelling distance the Eircom league was never really attractive. I think it's very important that when the FAI looks for new teams for the A and B leagues that they try to have representitives from every county, giving them a chance to potentially bring senior soccer to a much wider audience.
charliesboots
15/01/2007, 4:41 PM
far more than just those counties!!!
Hence the etc. in the post.
If people call themselves fans, yet don't support the domestic game in any way, either at a junior or senior level, then their whole experience of Irish football should be lousy. They deserve a lousy team, a lousy manager, players with lousy attitudes, a lousy CEO with a lousy attitude towards FIFA directives.
Agree
Irish people dont seem to have a problem supporting a team in another country so i dont see why another county would be too hard
Agree with this also, I know lots of Pats fans from Kildare (prior to Kildare having an eL team) and lots from Meath.
cavan_fan
15/01/2007, 4:42 PM
I think the point on many Irish people following the national team because they don't have a local side to support is very true. Growing up in Wexford the nearest teams would have been Waterford, Kilkenny or Bray and with county rivalry the way it is in Ireland plus travelling distance the Eircom league was never really attractive. I think it's very important that when the FAI looks for new teams for the A and B leagues that they try to have representitives from every county, giving them a chance to potentially bring senior soccer to a much wider audience.
Roll on Ballinamore Utd
dodge and wws get real, for those that go to all the ireland matches and are 40 miles at the very least from any EL side should all of a sudden swear allegiance to sSt Pats ( wws ) and are not "true irish supporters" ( which is what you are directly infering ) is bloody ridiculous, thats just as bad as all the young fellas at home jumping ship and going supporting chelsea over the last 2 years. Also, for all those plastics who spend a lot of hard-earned cash travelling europe ( and the world ) to see ireland play both home and away should in some way be involved with EL soccer to be "proper irish" supporters is even more ridiculous.....
The only way you can call yourself a football fan is if you go to a game every week. otherwise you're just interested in it. If you follow Man U but say you can't follow Pats because they're miles away you're an idiot.
Not calling you an idiot, just saying that EVERYBODY who uses this excuse, whilst at the same time following an English or Scottish team, is an idiot.
Kingdom
15/01/2007, 5:11 PM
Same thing really. If people call themselves fans, yet don't support the domestic game in any way, either at a junior or senior level, then their whole experience of Irish football should be lousy. They deserve a lousy team, a lousy manager, players with lousy attitudes, a lousy CEO with a lousy attitude towards FIFA directives. Never mind being made fun of on the internet. :rolleyes: If only that was the worst part of following Ireland.
Its the highlighted bit that makes the majority of this thread a load of ballacks. I thought you had to be an eL fan to be a real fan? Now the scope is broadened to people who follow local junior or senior soccer. Those of us who disagree with that point of view put forward genuine reasons why there are so many non-eL-Ireland fans and the arguement gets that bit more skewwed from the Naziesque eL fans.
Just out of interest do the real fans like wws who support Pats go down to Bricker on a Sat morning to watch the mini-teams play or head over to Michaels estate on a Sunday afternoon to watch the youth teams play. Surely the real fans of the eL do this, because as EB pointed out there are plenty of people who consider the NAtional team as their "local" side who go to all the Age groups not just the Senior side.
Maybe if there was a bit more structure to the local game in Ireland then more people would pay attention to the game at the highest level in Ireland, the eL. Its the only thing the GAA has over soccer here, structure. How many off-shoot teams do you see in soccer. Hundreds. Not too much loyalty in soccer here.
youngirish
15/01/2007, 5:35 PM
Hooperatzi you spout some s*ite. I'd say you haven't a clue about most of the good players in the Ireland youth setups yet you claim to be a the top of the supporters pyramid because you watch some substandard drivel every other week that has (like it or not) nothing to do with the national team. At least Man Ure supporters can claim to be supporting some of our national team players (the same ones that get us to International competitions).
How many of those EL players play for Ireland?
I'm reporting that post, because you're stirring.
NeilMcD
15/01/2007, 5:36 PM
far more than just those counties!!!
Jesus Christ that was just an example, I could not be bothered listing every county without an LOI team.
Hooperatzi you spout some s*ite. I'd say you haven't a clue about most of the good players in the Ireland youth setups yet you claim to be a the top of the supporters pyramid because you watch some substandard drivel every other week that has (like it or not) nothing to do with the national team. At least Man Ure supporters can claim to be supporting some of our national team players (the same ones that get us to International competitions).
How many of those EL players play for Ireland?
You are special.
You claim the Eircom League Premier Divsion is drivel, yet you'll happily be watching 'your' national team which, in all possibility, could have at least 5 ex EL players in the next squad (if not the next one, then one after).
People like you are ruining Irish football.
At least Irish Manure supporters can claim to be destroying Irish football.
p.s. When did John O'Shea ever get us to an international competition?
eirebhoy
15/01/2007, 5:44 PM
The only way you can call yourself a football fan is if you go to a game every week. otherwise you're just interested in it. If you follow Man U but say you can't follow Pats because they're miles away you're an idiot.
Not calling you an idiot, just saying that EVERYBODY who uses this excuse, whilst at the same time following an English or Scottish team, is an idiot.
How did you start supporting Pats? Not many people start supporting teams in their 20's. I could go to a hundred Pats matches but I don't think I'll ever be a true Pats fan. They're not in my heart and never will be.
NeilMcD
15/01/2007, 5:50 PM
Hooperatzi you spout some s*ite. I'd say you haven't a clue about most of the good players in the Ireland youth setups yet you claim to be a the top of the supporters pyramid because you watch some substandard drivel every other week that has (like it or not) nothing to do with the national team. At least Man Ure supporters can claim to be supporting some of our national team players (the same ones that get us to International competitions).
How many of those EL players play for Ireland?
This has to be one of the most idiotic posts every made on this forum in my view and I would not be you like to call an Eircom League Facist or EL nazi. A healthy domestic league can only be good for the international team and it is the job of the FAI to help produce both a healthy league and international team. We cannot rely on English clubs producing players for us and we need good youth structures all around the country both at Junior clubs and Senior clubs.
eirebhoy
15/01/2007, 5:53 PM
youngirish - I must have told you about 5 times by now to stop posting in such an aggressive style. You can sense anger in many of your posts and it's only going to get the thread locked. If any other person made the post you did I'd say they were trolling so I'm glad Hooperatzi didn't react. You could easily make the points you want to make without riling people up so quit it.
Donal81
15/01/2007, 6:33 PM
so you accept their is a 'heirarchy' of supporter.
we, as fans who go to games week in week out, are top of the Irish fan pyramid.
you, as someone who goes to national team matches every few months is somewhere in the middle.
corporates are towords the bottom.
anyone who wears leprechaun suits is sub human.
below them again are the type who boo Manure players and refer to Chelski as 'us' and 'we' or wear Murderpool shirts to LR.
glad you are seeing your place in the scheme of things. without us and the professional league our dedication sustains, you have no national side to ole ole at. some of the oirish fans could do to remember that. :ball:
Nice, another reference to ole ole. No barstooler jibe this time?
Thanks for just reminding me how futile this whole ridiculous argument is. I'm done posting on this one.
cavan_fan
15/01/2007, 6:40 PM
so you accept their is a 'heirarchy' of supporter.
we, as fans who go to games week in week out, are top of the Irish fan pyramid.
you, as someone who goes to national team matches every few months is somewhere in the middle.
corporates are towords the bottom.
anyone who wears leprechaun suits is sub human.
below them again are the type who boo Manure players and refer to Chelski as 'us' and 'we' or wear Murderpool shirts to LR.
glad you are seeing your place in the scheme of things. without us and the professional league our dedication sustains, you have no national side to ole ole at. some of the oirish fans could do to remember that. :ball:
B@llocks
This sort of smug eL ****e is what puts the entire country off the league. What sort of t*sser proclaims himself to be top of some pyramid he has created.
I'm glad to see despite your disdain for English football you have all the nicknames off pat.
On a factual basis, sad as it is there is very little link between success of the national team and that of the league. So in fact without the league the national team would be very similar to what it is now.
Finally, referring to people as subhuman and below subhuman is a bit over the top, isnt it?
republicofwhite
15/01/2007, 6:48 PM
Refreshing Cavan.
Billsthoughts
15/01/2007, 9:52 PM
B@llocks
This sort of smug eL ****e is what puts the entire country off the league. ?
why?
I would say its things like effort and commitment that puts the entire country off the league..
we arent a country that will ever follow sport on a regular basis. simple as.
whoever pointed out the irony of following teams in england but not being able to feel any affinity to Irish teams cause they werent "local" enough was spot on.
People claiming they follow all the underage teams is a lie as well. these games are rarely attended by many at all. People are coming up with more bizzare excuses everytime...
ifk101
16/01/2007, 9:22 AM
Puberty is a difficult time for the youth of our country.
NeilMcD
16/01/2007, 9:28 AM
Well firstly I like to only respond to the post not the poster. I called your post idiotic.
Secondly as I said in my original post, you could not describe me as an EL Facist. Anybody who has read any of my previous posts could see this. I was trying to come at this from someone who in the last year or so has started to support Bohemians again after years living down the west of Ireland. I know the realties of the game that most of our top players play in England so as a result I do look at English games quite often through the medium of television. However it is imperative for the future of IRish football that we have a healthy youth set up and in addition we have a healthy league. Therefore I think it is madness that you should have such disdain for the LOI. As someone pointed out before people all over the world people attend football matches in their local area, this is the norm. Now I know the reasons why people dont go to LOI games and a lot of that is due the power of television when they were kids and the English game could reach into their hearts and minds when thety were at their most impressionable. If you dont have a parent bringing you to games or you dont have a local side to go to, you are most likely going to support a team you can see on television and then probably along with the national side. This is quite normal in this country to do that. I dont blame anybody for this as I was that soldier living in the far west of Ireland. I do not look down on any supporter like this as I would not describe myself as EL hardcore in any fashion. I just like going to live football. and now that I am an adult and living in Dublin I can do this out of my own freewill.
Finally the problem with this debate so far has been comments like Ole ole brigade and other terms like EL facists. When someone uses insults like that they automatically forfeit the argument in my view.
I agree we have been punching above our weight but do we really want to be at the descretion of the English game as it is at the moment or do we want to take things into our own hads.
Read the book Who stole our game it might do you good.
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