Back 4 for Georgia

[The Money Man]

Well fellas, suggestions now for our back four to start the next competitive fixture against Georgia. John O'Shea looked competent tonight. That's probably no major shock to anybody. He should have been given an opportunity to start before.

Generally I would like to see defenders play internationally in their preferred club positions. But in our case I would make an exception due to our lack of a quality defensive left full. I would also like to see players who play regularly with good quality sides getting the nod.

My choice would be (excepting injuries or serious dips in form)

Carr O'Brien O'Shea Finnan

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man
My choice would be (excepting injuries or serious dips in form)

Carr O'Brien O'Shea Finnan

There's just a few small problems with that line out:
1. Kenny Cunningham is the team captain- he's guaranteed to get his game,
2. Finnan is right-sided, though this is something that can probably be ignored, and
3. Having seen Andy O'Briens European Cup performances he just isn't good enough to mix it at international level.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


There's just a few small problems with that line out:
1. Kenny Cunningham is the team captain- he's guaranteed to get his game,


I thought Kenny Cunningham was Mick McCarthy's team captain. Now that Mick has gone I'm sure any new manager would reserve the right to select his own captain. I would suggest that it probably wont be Cunningham.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man


I thought Kenny Cunningham was Mick McCarthy's team captain. Now that Mick has gone I'm sure any new manager would reserve the right to select his own captain.

I know he was, but, he'll hardly be striped of the captaincy only a few weeks after getting it. Besides, the last thing the players need is more instability, which picking a new captain would create.
I'm not saying he's the right man for the job, he clearly isn't but, IMO this is something better sorted another time.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[Real ale Madrid]

Sure wont RK be the captain again for the next match:D ;)

Btw my back 4 is Carr O'Shea O'Brien Finnan as well.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Real ale Madrid
Sure wont RK be the captain again for the next match:D ;)

Btw my back 4 is Carr O'Shea O'Brien Finnan as well.

Well, if RK comes back I reckon it's odds on he'll be captain, rightly or wrongly, anyone else would only be a figurehead with Keane on the pitch.
Assuming no BIG losses of form or confidence, this is the back 4 I reckon could do a job:
Carr, O'Shea, Breen and Finnan.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


I'm not saying he's the right man for the job, he clearly isn't but, IMO this is something better sorted another time.

Murphy Out Now!!!

You're not suggesting that the new man should make patently poor selection decisions in the interests of stability. The only way stability will be brought back to the set up is when a reasonably regular first eleven, led by the right man, put a few wins under the belt and get us back on track.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man


You're not suggesting that the new man should make patently poor selection decisions in the interests of stability.

Absolutely not, never in a million years. I'm just saying that the Irish teams boat has been rocked enough this past 7 months or so and it shouldn't be needlessly rocked in the future.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[pete]

O'Brien is not good enough for international football at the moment - at least not as first choice...

Cunningham has been a good leader in the past + IMO Breen is not that bad & people overstate his faults..

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by pete


Cunningham has been a good leader in the past + IMO Breen is not that bad & people overstate his faults..

I'm not trying to run either of the guys down. Breen had a very solid World Cup and Cunningham has been an impressive servant in the past.

BUT that does not disguise the fact that we were shambolic defensively against Russia and Switzerland. Breen and Cunningham were the men on duty both days.

[Real ale Madrid]

O'Brien is no world class defender, but he is better than Cunningham and Breen, Cunningham was terrible against Russia, and Breen is no good. People say he had a good world cup, but he was at fault for the goal against Spain for letting an attacking player run across him and head the ball which is really a schoolboy error. That goal put us out in the end. He sometimes makes up for in endevour what he lacks in skill, but he makes too many mistakes.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by pete
O'Brien is not good enough for international football at the moment - at least not as first choice...

Cunningham has been a good leader in the past + IMO Breen is not that bad & people overstate his faults..

Thank you. Thought I'd get rightly roasted for saying some of that, but, it appears I'm not the only one who can see the wood from the trees.
Questions remain however about Cunningham. Ever hear the stockmarket warning 'Past performance is not a guide to future returns'.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Andy O'Brien is no genius. But the fact is that he plays at a higher level week in week out with a better club than either Cunningham or Breen. I would always feel more secure in entrusting an international job to a player who plays regularly against the best players in Europe.

[Shed End John]

O'Brien plays in the Premiership, but, so does Breen........same difference. You're very mistaken about the Premiers**t if you think the best players in Europe ply their trade there. The best players in Europe are playing where they've always played Spain and Italy.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[Real ale Madrid]

In fairness I think the Money Man was saying how O'Brien was playing in the Chamions league. Breen is not up to that standard.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Real ale Madrid
In fairness I think the Money Man was saying how O'Brien was playing in the Chamions league. Breen is not up to that standard.

Well from what I've seen of the Magpies in Europe this season, neither is O'Brien.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[Real ale Madrid]

Did the Magpies not reach the second round? Against the odds.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Real ale Madrid
Did the Magpies not reach the second round? Against the odds.

Maybe, but, I wouldn't rank them above 14th of the 16 teams in the second round. They're out of their depth and will be shown up BIG time. It also didn't hide O'Briens below par performances.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[Real ale Madrid]

Ok, you are probably better informed as I only saw Newcastle once that was against Feyenoord, Still think he is infinitely better tha Breen.

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


also didn't hide O'Briens below par performances.

Murphy Out Now!!!

O'Brien was maybe partially at fault for Feyenoord's goal at Newcastle but I don't remember him doing an awful lot else wrong in the first phase. Obviously Shed End you can put me right with a litany of other mistakes he made because you seem to remember the six games with crystal clarity.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man

Obviously Shed End you can put me right with a litany of other mistakes he made because you seem to remember the six games with crystal clarity.

I never claimed to have such a photographic memory. I assess players over what they show in games as a whole. Which leads me to conclude that O'Brien is a limited player.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[pete]

No matter what standard some players play at they don't always have what it takes for international football.

O'Brien is getting good exposure to quality football but just assuming he should be a first choice centre back on that basis probably isn't the best decision.

Experience can could for a lot at the top level as shown by Stauntons performances in the last year - he was terrible in the preceeding year but turned it around.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by pete
O'Brien is getting good exposure to quality football but just assuming he should be a first choice centre back on that basis probably isn't the best decision.


Have to agree with ya there. Just going on what level a guy plays at is a really misguided and ill-informed way of assessing his overall worth/importance etc, etc.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by pete
No matter what standard some players play at they don't always have what it takes for international football.

O'Brien is getting good exposure to quality football but just assuming he should be a first choice centre back on that basis probably isn't the best decision.



I agree that we can't assume international greatness from exposure to quality at club level. We have all seen good club performers flop on the bigger stage. That said, after the debacles of Russia and Switzerland, I think O'Brien deserves a go ahead of the two men on duty on those occassions.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man

That said, after the debacles of Russia and Switzerland, I think O'Brien deserves a go ahead of the two men on duty on those occassions.

Hey, don't forget John O'Shea. He didn't play in either of those games. Look at the reviews he gets every week when he plays with United (not that I'd EVER support them), he's SURELY worth a shot.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Hey, don't forget John O'Shea.



I haven't forgotten O'Shea Shed End. He's in my selected back four. I refer you back to my original posting on this thread.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man


I haven't forgotten O'Shea Shed End. He's in my selected back four. I refer you back to my original posting on this thread.

Noted. But, O'Brien is too limited a player to have next to a talent like O'Shea. Poor bugger would end up doing two jobs just like O'Briens partner at Newcastle.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Noted. But, O'Brien is too limited a player to have next to a talent like O'Shea. Poor bugger would end up doing two jobs just like O'Briens partner at Newcastle.

Murphy Out Now!!!

I wouldn't have considered Nico the Greek to be good enough to carry himself never mind anybody else.

[brine2]

My back four would also be Carr - O'Brien - O'Shea - Finnan

About O'Brien: I was at Newcastle - Juventus (I was visiting a friend, so I was at the game purely as a neutral) and O'Brien was fantastic. He contained Del Piero no problem. He also does a lot of running that you don't see on the cameras, closing down angles and thinking ahead, while guiding the young Titus Bramble. He was quite easily the man of the match in that game. If anyone is carrying anyone in the NUFC defence, then O'Brien is carrying that eejit Dabizas.

The biggest problem at Newcastle is that they don't have a Keane/Gerrard/Vieira/Dacourt type player who can win the ball and distribute it properly, holding on to possession. The Newcastle midfielders lose the the ball too much. The defence is under too much pressure all the time. This was evident in the last quarter of the match against Juventus, and in the second half against Feynoord.

O'Brien also plays in the same defence as Shay Given, so it would make 100% sense to play them together at international level as well, seeing that the biggest problem at international level is getting the team to gel.

[colster]

What about Dunne. He seems to have sorted himself out and is playing well for Man City.
I reckon the back four should be
Finnan Dunne OShea Carr
I think that back 4 will the first choice for years to come.

[The Legend]

I would say that the jury needs to stay out a bit longer on Dunne!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by brine2
My back four would also be Carr - O'Brien - O'Shea - Finnan

O'Brien was fantastic. He contained Del Piero no problem.
O'Brien also plays in the same defence as Shay Given, so it would make 100% sense to play them together at international level

Vindication at last. Now we have a first hand view of O'Brien at Champions League level. I have pointed out all along that O'Brien only made one significant mistake in the entire first phase. Despite the fact that nobody can cite any other mistake, they seem happy enough to dismiss his contribution to Newcastle's progress. Newcastle wont get past phase two but six more games at that level will only further O'Briens experience amonst the best of what Europe has to offer.

[pete]

Sure that O'Brien 'chap' isn't even irish. ;)

[Éanna]

Originally posted by pete
Sure that O'Brien 'chap' isn't even irish. ;)
that doesn´t appear to bother the FAI or most of the muppets who think they´re football fans in this country.

p.s. Pete, I know you weren´t being serious, just chosing to ignore it :)

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by pete
Sure that O'Brien 'chap' isn't even irish. ;)

With a name like O'Brien, he's hardly Bangladeshi!

[patsh]

Originally posted by The Money Man


With a name like O'Brien, he's hardly Bangladeshi!
Why not,
Andrew Jitendra O'Brien, anyone?? ;)
His father could have been a docker from Clonmel. and his mother a curry chef from Dhaka....:D:D

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by oddboy

Why not,
Andrew Jitendra O'Brien, anyone?? ;)
His father could have been a docker from Clonmel. and his mother a curry chef from Dhaka....:D:D

He must've got his nose from his mothers side then - I understand that Clonmel noses are petite and perfectly formed.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by colster
What about Dunne. He seems to have sorted himself out and is playing well for Man City.
I reckon the back four should be
Finnan Dunne OShea Carr
I think that back 4 will the first choice for years to come.

You're right, Dunne has sorted himself out and IS playing really well for Man City, but, there's a catch. Dunne is very much a horses for courses player. He will invariably play a blinder against teams who through design or panic (Holland September 2001) resort to putting high balls into the box. Dunne will on the other hand struggle against teams with quick forwards who'll keep the ball on the deck.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Dunne will on the other hand struggle against teams with quick forwards who'll keep the ball on the deck.



Thats bang on. There are certainly occassions on which Dunne could do a job for us. He is a one trick pony though. He would suit fine against sides who try to bang the door down but could be exposed against sides who try to pick the lock.

[Badweather Fan]

Originally posted by colster
Finnan Dunne OShea Carr
I think that back 4 will the first choice for years to come. Totally agree. although idid say Finnan should be right mid in another thread. Actually, Finnans more consistent than any of our wealth of right backs so maybe he should be the one to get his natural spot.

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Badweather Fan
Totally agree. although idid say Finnan should be right mid in another thread. Actually, Finnans more consistent than any of our wealth of right backs so maybe he should be the one to get his natural spot.

Carr is really coming back to form in a serious way. He was brilliant for us in the opening games of the WC qualifiers at right back. I think if anybody deserves to hold their favoured position of right back it should be Carr.

Also bear in mind the Finnan has played left back for Fulham. He seems to offer more versatility than Carr who is very right-sided. So why switch them the other way around - makes no sense!