Alan Lee

[chrisrufc]

I can't understand why Alan Lee isnt in the team. WHY?. He is one of the top scorers in the first division he has been playing regular football but instead people such as Graham Barratt are chosen ahead of him.

[Xlex]

Don Givens is a temporary boss, he had Lee at U-21 level and perhaps he felt he did'nt want to call him up...

[patsh]

Excuse my ignorance, but which club does Alan Lee play with?

[pete]

Rotherham.

Maybe Given only picked players he familiar with oe seen in person recently?

[chrisrufc]

http://www.setanta.com/soccer/story.jsp?story=WCContent;id-44872

[The Money Man]

It does seem odd considering our lack of available forward players for tonight that Alan wasn't included. He has banged in ten league goals already this season despite missing a number of games with hamstring problems. I don't know if anybody heard the comments but Alan's club manager, Ronnie Moore, wasn't overly happy at Lee's exclusion either!

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man
I don't know if anybody heard the comments but Alan's club manager, Ronnie Moore, wasn't overly happy at Lee's exclusion either!

Well that's just tough. A manager, even on a caretaker basis, will select the team and squad that he, not anyone else, thinks will do the best job.
That said, if Lee is good enough he'll get his chance sooner or later.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


A manager, even on a caretaker basis, will select the team and squad that he, not anyone else, thinks will do the best job.


That goes without saying - why would he pick a team that he thought would underperform? That doesn't necessarily mean that he gets it right though!

Surely there should have been a third striker in the squad last night. The only option that the manager gave himself last night was to put Rory Delap up front for the last five. If David Connolly wasn't fit or wasn't prepared to make the trip then why not pick a guy who has a better scoring record than him in the same division.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man

That goes without saying - why would he pick a team that he thought would underperform? That doesn't necessarily mean that he gets it right though!


I know managers don't necessarily get it right, just look at Mick McCarthy's farcical tenure, but, Givens had one game and one game only so let's just leave him be on this one. At least we didn't lose 3-2 having been 2-0 up.:)

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Givens had one game and one game only so let's just leave him be on this one.

Murphy Out Now!!!

Absolutely right. But surely if you know that you will have only one opportunity to make an impact you select more than two strikers to make the trip. Also bear in mind that of the two 'strikers' he brought to Greece, one is a central defender and the other is playing with Bohs because he couldn't make it in England. That's not to derride the efforts of the two lads last night, Crowe was a little unlucky not to get on the scoresheet. But that doesn't detract from the issue - we should have had a recognised forward man on the bench.

[pete]

Originally posted by The Money Man
...and the other is playing with Bohs because he couldn't make it in England...

I think its fairly petty holding the fact Crowe didn't do so well in the english league when he was in his late teens.

By that reasoning you could say Alan Lee not be called up on the basis of flopping ta Aston Villa, Mark Kennedy at Liverpool, Robbie Keane at Inter Milan etc etc...

:rolleyes:

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by pete

By that reasoning you could say Alan Lee not be called up on the basis of flopping ta Aston Villa, Mark Kennedy at Liverpool, Robbie Keane at Inter Milan etc etc...


Spot on there, Pete.
Money Man, I thought Glen Crowe WAS a recognised forward man seeing as he plays UP FRONT with Bohs and scores more regularly in a league where the top teams are as good and better than most of what's in the Nationwide League cross-channel.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Spot on there, Pete.
Money Man, I thought Glen Crowe WAS a recognised forward man seeing as he plays UP FRONT with Bohs

I never suggested otherwise. I only pointed out that there was no front man on the bench. There wasn't - we had to haul on Rory Delap top of the shop when Glen departed the scene. I was also at pains to point out that I wasn't derriding Glen's efforts last night - I thought he acquitted himself reasonably well. But lets face it, he's not the man to lead us to the promised land of Euro 04 with a bagful of goals on the international stage.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man

But lets face it, he's not the man to lead us to the promised land of Euro 04 with a bagful of goals on the international stage.

I know that only too well. I'm just saying that Glen Crowe was the best of what was available and maybe we shouldn't be getting too carried away with what was after all a friendly, basically another name for a glorified kickabout.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


I know that only too well. I'm just saying that Glen Crowe was the best of what was available



This is entiely the point. I don't think that he was the best of what was available. Due to our lack of available strikers he was well worth his place in the squad. But I think Alan Lee should have started the game or at least have been given a run. Glen Crowe played first division football and his services weren't retained. Alan Lee has scored ten league goals this term in the first division despite missing a number of games with a hamstring strain. Why wasn't he given a go?

[James]

well here's my 2 cents
i've never heard of the boy alan lee till this thread ??
glen crowe i;ve know mocked feared and enjoyed watching him play and score some great goals for the last 4 years

i know who'd i pick :)

g'wan ya blackbird ya

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by The Money Man

This is entiely the point. I don't think that he was the best of what was available. Glen Crowe played first division football and his services weren't retained. Alan Lee has scored ten league goals this term in the first division despite missing a number of games with a hamstring strain. Why wasn't he given a go?

Glen Crowe at least has a long track record of scoring goals for fun at the highest level of Irish soccer. A level, I might add, that would leace the vast majority of the Nationwide League (in which Rotheram play) for dead.
As has already been pointed out to you, to dismiss Crowe on the basis that he didn't 'make it' over in England is an empty argument. And, so it remains.
You also seem to have answered your own question. With Lee being injured, obviously not enough has been seen of him.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by Shed End John


Glen Crowe at least has a long track record of scoring goals for fun at the highest level of Irish soccer. A level, I might add, that would leace the vast majority of the Nationwide League (in which Rotheram play) for dead.


You're surely not suggesting that the average eL side is better than the average English First Division side (eg. Rotherham).

[pete]

Originally posted by The Money Man
You're surely not suggesting that the average eL side is better than the average English First Division side (eg. Rotherham).

Thats probably a push but much as i dislike it Bohs have been the best team in the eL for the last few years whereas Rotherham possibly only got promoted from the english 2nd division last year?

I would think the top half of the eL premier similar to the top half of the english 2nd. I don't think an eL team could consustent play at 1st division level yet.

While eL defenders are prone to the hoof the attacking players here would appear more skillful that many nationwoie teams as the further you drop down the nationwide almost every player seems to be 6' 2" 7 13 stone.

I think you correct saying Given was short of forwards in the squad but maybe he wasn't prepared for the withdrawls & maybe all he knew of Lee is what he seen on mondays IT football stats.

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by pete


I would think the top half of the eL premier similar to the top half of the english 2nd. I don't think an eL team could consustent play at 1st division level yet.



We're agreed then. The question that still remains therefore is why should a player who is banging in goals in the 1st division be left at home watching the game on telly when we have no strikers on the bench!?!

[gustavo]

The question that still remains therefore is why should a player who is banging in goals in the 1st division be left at home watching the game on telly when we have no strikers on the bench!?!

yeah you really do have to feel sorry for Willie Bruton.

[Xlex]

Perhaps Givens realises the potiential the eL has and that his two call-ups might give it the injection it so badly needs...

BTW I heard a counter arguement when Jim Goodwin got a run as a second division reserve team player... Where was Alan Lee that evening?

BTW 500 professional footballers in the U.K. didn't get a contract last summer... the number is expected to increase... if we can sustainably grow our clubs then the day a young lads goes to England maybe gone...

[The Legend]

Where will the money come from to grow the EL clubs?

I think it's fair to say that GAA sports dilute
- Funds available
- Talent available
- No. of fans available

For a small country it's tough to keep so many sports going!

So to summarize, i don't see much changing in the near future!

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by The Legend

For a small country it's tough to keep so many sports going!

So to summarize, i don't see much changing in the near future!

Fair point. But to take it a step further, you haven't mentioned rugby. There was a time not too long ago that if a kid wanted to earn a living with a ball, football was the only option. Not today! The profile and incomes of guys like Brian O'Driscoll is bound to attract talented young lads towards rugby.

[The Legend]

That's True,

However, it's more common for a kid to have to choose between GAA football and soccer.

Rugby players generally grow up concentrating and having a preference on that sport!

I dunno, maybe i'm wrong about that!
If I am, yeah you can say that Rugby further dilutes the pool!

[The Legend]

And one more thing... not to get into a class system arguement but...

From a funding point of view, Rugby is usually supported by, shall we say, the upper classes and schools (with a few quid to spend!)

I think it's fair enough to say that soccer is more of the working class man's sport!

Yes I know, most people will support an Ireland team no matter what the sport is, but when it comes to spending money to support that... I think the above paragraph is a factor!

[Éanna]

Originally posted by Shed End John
Mick McCarthy's farcical tenure
Hello! We did actually qualify for the world cup- hardly farcical :rolleyes:

[brine2]

1 out of 3 tournaments, and the worst possible start to the 4th.

Not farcical, but then again, not far from it.

[gustavo]

dunno about you but losing one competitive game at home in 6 years is harldyy farcical especially with the pool of players he had at his disposal.

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by gustavo
dunno about you but losing one competitive game at home in 6 years is harldyy farcical

Mick's entire reign wasn't farcical although it certainly had numerous farcical moments. It is true that he restored the old fortess Lansdowne feeling with a great home record (until Switzerland).

However, his away record is awful. The number of competitive away wins secured against decent opposition during Mick's tenure is interesting. See for yourself....

97 WCQ Macedonia 2-3
97 WCQ Romania 0-1
97 WCP Belgium 1-2
98 ECQ Yugoslavia 0-1
99 ECQ Croatia 0-1
99 ECQ Macedonia 1-1
99 ECP Turkey 0-0
00 WCQ Holland 2-2
00 WCQ Portugal 1-1
01 WCP Iran 0-1
02 ECQ Russia 2-4

We haven't beaten a single qualification contender away from home in the entirity of Mick's stewardship!

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Éanna

Hello! We did actually qualify for the world cup- hardly farcical :rolleyes:

No, but events subsequent to qualification were. Besides, under Charlton we got to 2 World Cups (1 quarter-final, 1 second round) and 1 European Championship, a much better haul I'm sure you'll agree.

Murphy Out Now!!!

[pete]

Originally posted by Shed End John
Besides, under Charlton we got to 2 World Cups (1 quarter-final, 1 second round) and 1 European Championship, a much better haul I'm sure you'll agree.

In the Charlton days 2nd place in the qualifying group was good enough to get to the World Cup.

[The Money Man]

Originally posted by pete


In the Charlton days 2nd place in the qualifying group was good enough to get to the World Cup.

Good enough for a World Cup but not for a European Championship. We finished top of the group for Euro '88 (after Scotland beat Bulgaria away in the final group match). We missed out on top spot for Denmark '92 on goal difference having finished the group unbeaten.

It was during USA '94 that Jack's reign went pear-shaped. Great opening result against Italy (what a night that was!). Rubbish against Mexico (although the heat was cruel). Ineffective against Norway. Never turned up mentally to play Holland.

Euro '96 was a non event. Murdered by Austria home and away for Christ's sake. Outclassed by Portugal in the Stadium of light. Killed by Kluivert at Anfield.

Overall, our best qualification achievement for a World Cup was Japan. Our best achievement at European Championship level was Germany '88.

Jack 1-1 Mick.

[Éanna]

well said Money Man. Thats a pretty fair assessment of it IMO