GAA and FAI

[Billsthoughts]

Quite a bit about this in the indo on sunday. anyone see it?
basicaly two pieces - one which looked like it was written by a GAA press officer it was so biased - saying how they are not gettin on at all.
no mention of Thomas Davis in it either eventho there have been couple of court appearances last week. Just seems like the GAA are gunning for a row or a chance to humiliate the FAI(like they need any help in that!!!)
I would have prefereed if we had a played our home games in cardiff/glasgow or manchester to be honest. Might have got a better deal as well.

[WeAreRovers]

Here's Cathal Dervan's piece from today's Star -

KOH

GAA WANTS NOTHING MORE THAN TO SEE RIVAL SPORT DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY

Stadium shambles leaves soccer in an almighty lurch

Cathal Dervan - The Star

It is the time of year to spare a thought for the homeless — so let’s wish the FAI well as the world gangs up against them yet again in their search for a new home for Irish soccer. Let’s face it folks, those of us in the Irish football family are facing into another spell as the nomads of the nation’s sporting community. From the Lansdowne Road residents to the Michael Guiney suits in Drumcondra and on to the Tallaghtban of the West Dublin GAA, no one likes us - but we do care. We care so much that the FAI really should cut their losses, move the Wales game in March to Tolka Park and tell the begrudgers to stick their Fainne badges where the sun don’t shine.

It is time for a reality check and a wake up call as the implications of all those decades when previous FAI regimes brushed the stadium issue under the Merrion Square carpet come home to roost.

Truth Number One - the GAA don’t want us at Croke Park. They’re not brave enough to stand up and admit it in Irish or English, but the Pioneer Pin brigade in Croker would be quite happy if soccer just disappeared off their agenda altogether. They’d rather welcome a 32 county rugby team to their North Dublin headquarters, some of whom won’t sing the national anthem and all of whom will openly stand to attention in February as they play God Save The Queen for their English visitors.

The GAA can’t even let the soccer team train on their patch. They would rather have Donnacha O’Callaghan’s red underpants on the sacred ground than Damien Duff’s silky skills. And they’re not alone.

Truth Number Two - their GAA brethren out in Tallaght want to prolong the suffering of Shamrock Rovers fans everywhere and delay their arrival in the satellite town as long as possible. The Thomas Davis Club are seriously worried that the presence of the Hoops in their catchment area will undermine their attractiveness as an outlet for the youth of Tallaght. Well lads, the behaviour of your GAA bosses in Croke Park towards Tallaght’s finest Robbie Keane and Richard Dunne isn’t doing you much good on that score. And just in case you haven’t noticed, soccer long ago passed gaelic football and hurling as the biggest participation sport for the youth of this country.

Truth Number Three - many of the residents in and around Lansdowne Road aren’t all that keen on the idea of a super stadium literally springing up over their doorsteps as their deliveries at this week’s oral hearings would seem to suggest. The FAI and the IRFU still believe in the Lansdowne Road project. They still believe the GAA’s rent boys will take their money in 2007 and in 2008, even if the price goes up year on year.

Shamrock Rovers and Thomas Davis, if they are truthful, know that the new Glenmalure Park will open as a soccer only ground as soon as the barristers stop earning handsome fees on the back of it.

They all believe in Lansdowne, Croker and Tallaght because they have to. Those of us who don’t subscribe to the manifesto though are allowed think otherwise and we should. Why are we building a new Lansdowne when there are green field sites all over Dublin county that could easily accommodate a national stadium with transport links and car parks that don’t come complete with the clampers? Why does the national stadium have to be built in traffic jam Dublin? Why does everything in this country have to centre on a capital city that is now a nightmare to get in and out of? And why didn’t the FAI solve their own problems when they had the chance to build eircom Park almost a decade ago?

The sad reality here is that Bertie Ahern’s interference stopped eircom Park in its tracks, the same eircom Park that would be up and running now but for the bullying acts of the government of the day. All Bertie succeeded in doing when he stopped eircom Park was splitting the FAI down the middle and leaving us hanging onto this hope of a new Ale Lansdowne when really he wants Irish soccer to move elsewhere.

The amazing reality is that the Bertie Bowl site out in Abbotstown is still untouched by human hand. They are in the process of building all around it but have yet to build anything on it.

I’ll bet they’re waiting for the Lansdowne Road project to collapse and the GAA to finally come clean and admit they don’t want soccer on their Holy Ground though they’re quite happy to accept €3.5m from the soccer-playing tax-payers for their floodlights. When all that falls into place Bertie will tell us he told us so and build his bowl. Five years from now we’ll all be watching the Ireland team in Abbotstown — remember where you read it first.

[manofthemoment]

I am far from being a fan of Cathal Dervan's writings but i have to say I agree with a lot of this article. Eircom Park should have been built and soccer would now have it's own home and not be going cap in hand to an organisation where a lot of its leaders fear and loathe soccer and therefore will do all in their power to make things as difficult as possible for the FAI. Obviously they don't fear rugby as much as it's fan and player base by and large don't impinge on GAA. This is not a rant against GAA supporters the majority of which have no interest in the politics of the whole thing.

[pete]

If the GAA did a u-turn on their deal it would not be seen favourably by the government & could result in less grants...

Pointless enough article but not expect much of Dervan anyway...

[WeAreRovers]

Pointless enough article but not expect much of Dervan anyway...

This part is far from pointless, we are in a battle for hearts and minds in Tallaght. To quote Thomas Davis's Chief bigot to "the last man standing".

Truth Number Two - their GAA brethren out in Tallaght want to prolong the suffering of Shamrock Rovers fans everywhere and delay their arrival in the satellite town as long as possible. The Thomas Davis Club are seriously worried that the presence of the Hoops in their catchment area will undermine their attractiveness as an outlet for the youth of Tallaght. Well lads, the behaviour of your GAA bosses in Croke Park towards Tallaght’s finest Robbie Keane and Richard Dunne isn’t doing you much good on that score. And just in case you haven’t noticed, soccer long ago passed gaelic football and hurling as the biggest participation sport for the youth of this country.

KOH

[Dodge]

Anyone who uses the word brethren is weird for a start. Shameful actions from the GAA and scandalously late words from the soccerwriters and the FAI.

Nothing unusual

[Donal81]

Rubbish article, full of the same old cliches. Why is it that so many football fans get into namecalling and finger-pointing hysterics with the GAA? Talking about the GAA like it's some sort of evil empire is just doing the exact same thing as GAA morons who talk about the evils of the garrison games.

Dervan knows as well as anyone else that if the GAA did not want the FAI/IRFU in Croker, they would not be there. No one circles the wagons like the GAA and they've never given a toss for negative publicity.

And why does he think that the GAA would rather have rugby instead of soccer? And why bring the anthem thing into it? Rubbish.

There is something awful going on out in Tallaght, though. There are awful elements within the GAA but pegging the organisation as a band of Fainne-wearing pioneers is less than pathetic.

[pete]

This part is far from pointless, we are in a battle for hearts and minds in Tallaght. To quote Thomas Davis's Chief bigot to "the last man standing".

However he hasn't added anything new to the debate.

[Dodge]

However he hasn't added anything new to the debate.

He's the first non GAA writer to report on it.

[WeAreRovers]

However he hasn't added anything new to the debate.

Since the FAI belatedly came out in support of Rovers this has begun to make ripples in the media. Dervan's piece is an example of this. We - as a football community - need to reach out to the general public on this. Especially to non-bigoted ordinary GAA members and non-committed football fans. Not everyone's as sussed as you pete. ;)

KOH

[kingdom hoop]

i'm glad i dont buy the star.

as donal mentions the irony that pervades the article is appalling. the things he said should be confined to a dark nook of a pub, instead he's fueling a 'debate' that does nothing for either party. tabloid journalism at its finest.

[Emmet]

It does not exactly fill me with pride when this whole GAA / soccer issue comes up ... but I was under the impression that we would definitely be playing our next few home games at Croker - is this now in doubt then?

[Billsthoughts]

Its good he is bringing the behaviour of Thomas Davis to the attention of people who wouldnt know much about it. Their behaviour is pretty poor form at best and not really in the spirit of sport. why give grants to an organisation that will spend it on lawyers? grants should be suspended to any club that uses money to bring other clubs to court.
there is no reason why the GAA, rugby and football cant co-exist happily in tallaght. Its not as if the place is overflowing with amenities or things to do. And am open to correction but isnt one of the most successful of the Dublin GAA teams (kilmacud crokes) operating out of what is traditionally rugby territory?

[Billsthoughts]

It does not exactly fill me with pride when this whole GAA / soccer issue comes up ... but I was under the impression that we would definitely be playing our next few home games at Croker - is this now in doubt then?

no its not in doubt.

[Student Mullet]

Anyone who uses the word brethren is weird for a start. As is anyone who uses the phrase 'family of football'.

The standard of that article was barely above the level of an internet rant.

[p_o_r]

no its not in doubt.

Correct it's not in doubt for 2007 but no agreement has been made for 2008.

As for the article it's self, typical s**t I'd expect from a tabloid, full of name calling and the same old cliches as stated above.

I'll wait for an article in The Times or Indo from a soccer leaning writer to make up my mind on the rights and wrongs of the debate

[NeilMcD]

The only good thing about the article was highlighting the problem between Rovers and Thomas Davis out in Tallaght. Otherwise it was a poorly researched rant from a very poor journalist in my opinion.

[kingdom hoop]

you're right about kilmacud bill, very close to blackrock too!

the fact is kids should be encouraged to play all sports, bickering from 'opposing' sports does nothing to aid youngsters getting away from the playstation( or foot.ie for that matter!!) and all other distractions that many a good man has succumbed to. but there will always be the small-minded few who see their way as the only way(thomas davis?)

i would be very quick to jump on the back of anyone who suggests otherwise(nothing like a bit of bravado at the end of a post!)

[Superhoops]

One of the worst examples of 'cheap shot' journalism I have ever come across.

Dervan is supposed to be a professional journalist and while I am quite happy for any writer to put their own slant on any story, resorting to cheap jibes is a sure sign of a weak argument.

The 'Tallaghtban of the West Dublin GAA' has an element of wit about it but 'the Pioneer Pin brigade in Croker' is insulting to those who actually wear the pin and believe in what is stands for (I am not one of them, I hasten to add!), and many of whom have no association with nor hold no gra for the GAA.

If Dervan is that anti-GAA then perhaps he will stand by his principle and refuse to set foot in the place. Will he? Not bloody likely. Journalists are often considered to be the bottom of the barrel and Dervan does nothing to dispel that view.

[geysir]

Its with amazing consistancy that the incompetents who run football try to hide their shorcomings behind the intransigence/bullying of the GAA. The weak state of professional soccer, under resourced and under supported, has sfa to do with the GAA.
On Fannings article, it's not the GAA's duty to bail out the incompetent FAI gobs who negotiated the Croke Pk. rent contract. The first rule when dealing with a rival is get the the verbal agreements/promises put into the small print.

[Billsthoughts]

Its with amazing consistancy that the incompetents who run football try to hide their shorcomings behind the intransigence/bullying of the GAA. The weak state of professional soccer, under resourced and under supported, has sfa to do with the GAA.
On Fannings article, it's not the GAA's duty to bail out the incompetent FAI gobs who negotiated the Croke Pk. rent contract. The first rule when dealing with a rival is get the the verbal agreements/promises put into the small print.

its not the GAAs duty to attempt to destroy one of our most famous football clubs by dragging them thru the courts indefinitely either but thats what they are doing out in tallaght. its questionable whether rovers bein out there will have any effect on them whatsoever. so why are they doing what they are doing?

[dfx-]

However he hasn't added anything new to the debate.

It's not about bringing anything new to it. It's about reporting the situation as is now to a infinitely larger audience until the situation as is now is known by everyone.

[bennocelt]

I am far from being a fan of Cathal Dervan's writings but i have to say I agree with a lot of this article.

yeah likewise, im in shock, Dervan has just written a whole article that i agree with totally, wow, thats amazing

[Sunnyside Up]

Here's Cathal Dervan's piece from today's Star -

They’d rather welcome a 32 county rugby team to their North Dublin headquarters, some of whom won’t sing the national anthem and all of whom will openly stand to attention in February as they play God Save The Queen for their English visitors.


If a GAA man said that, they'd be a bigot. I've seen Dervan make this point a hundred times, that the Unionists on the 32 county Irish rugby team should accept Amhran na Bhfiann as their national anthem. That is the equivalent of a Unionist saying that nationalists on the NI soccer team should accept GSTQ as their national anthem.

A soccer person blaming the GAA for Shamrock Rovers lack of a home is indeed ironic. There was me thinking previous owners sold Rovers' home to make some money in a real estate transaction!

I was also under the impression that the FAI were set to make more money from their games in Croke Park than in any previous games in their history. A sure example of the GAA trying to kill off soccer.

I was also under the impression that the GAA fougth the objections of the residents to get floodlights installed in Drumcondra. No easy task, if anyone knows the history of the residents objections. Forget about the Dublin Tyrone game, this was all for the benefit of the IRFU and FAI (even if government footed the bill - thought in reality IRFU and FAI can count themselves lucky not to have been sent a few invoices).

The whole training flare up is soley due to FAI whinging to the media. The Irish soccer team has been granted training sessions in Croke Park. It may not be the day they wanted but they have been granted it. Most GAA teams - county and club - never have had this courtesy before playing a big game in Croke Park.

One final point. Cathal Dervan is on record as saying that Glasgow Celtic are as Irish as any team on this island. Enough said. God****e end of story. Of course if Meath ever make a comeback he'll have us sickened about what a great Gah team they are.

[Donal81]

Tallaght is the line in the sand. Hate to drag the nitty gritty of sport in Ireland into some of your worlds, but get used to it.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

As someone has already written, if a GAA journalist wrote an article like this about soccer, full of patronising, condescending and generalising rubbish like Dervan's, we'd be on here within minutes of its publication, ranting about how ridiculous it was. And his crowing about how soccer is now more popular than GAA is deserving of all of our contempt. But we're willing to accept similar rubbish when it's written in 'our' favour? That's poor form, I reckon.

What's happening out in Tallaght is shocking but it's important to remember that the legal challenge is being funded solely by one member of Thomas Davis GAA, not the six clubs together and certainly not the GAA. But the organisation is definitely playing it cute, seeing what happens before moving on it. I know two of those clubs well (not Thomas Davis) and there are some awful attitudes up there but what's interesting is those South Dublin clubs - like Ballyboden St. Endas - that didn't get involved.

Dublin GAA's Central Council hasn't given a penny towards it either. My impression of it is that the clubs are so powerful in south Dublin - Thomas Davis, St. Judes and Faughs are huge clubs - that they can't just be swatted away. If it was up to GAA HQ, the whole thing would be forgotten about, I reckon, it's more trouble than it's worth.

While I find the actions of Thomas Davis and the other south Dublin clubs involved to be disgusting, it will serve us well to remember that this is not a Shamrock Rovers stadium. Through the financial shenanigans of its owners a few years ago, they did themselves out of a stadium. The 400 Club are running it now and they're a great bunch of blokes that have been dealt a tough hand but that's the unfortunate reality of it - Rovers don't own the place. Thomas Davis have been opportunistic and leaked emails indicate the more sinister views of the guy that's backing the whole thing (his name is Dave Kennedy, by the way) but they're not muscling in on a Shamrock Rovers stadium. So while people might consider this a line in the sand, it will do them well to remember that Rovers are going to get this ground they don't own completed for free by the taxpayer. This is the vital difference between Tallaght and Croker.

Having said that, South Dublin County Council is adamant that this is a stadium for soccer, end of story. This has always been the case and this is also John O'Donoghue's position. But if the courts find in their favour - and I really hope that they don't, largely out of sympathy for Rovers fans and antipathy for the attitudes of the redneck element in the clubs that I'm familiar with - then what?

My point here is that bile should be directed at Thomas Davis and the five other clubs, whose agenda should certainly be questioned. This is not official GAA policy and is not being covertly dictated from Croke Park - this is a bunch of local clubs who fancy getting a southside Parnell Park.

Talk of 'lines in the sand' will get us nowhere, anyway. I'm sick of being told by hardcore soccer and GAA fans how difficult their lives are as a result of each other. It tends to be shielding the real problem, which is their own organisation.

[Reddladd]

A GAA perspective as posted on a well known Gaa site

Tallaght Stadium
A few facts about Tallaght Stadium. It is a Community Stadium to be paid for by the Government and South Dublin County Council therefore it should be open to all members of the community including the GAA Community. A full meeting of South Dublin County Council voted 27 to 1 in November 2005 to amend their plans to allow a GAA pitch be developed in Tallaght as part of the Stadium plans. They overturned this decision some months later on the instruction of the Minister for Sport John O’Donoghue who informed them that he would not supply funding if the GAA pitch was included in the Stadium plans. No reason was given for this by the Minister.
Thomas Davis are the named club taking the Court action. They are fully supported by Faughs, St Annes, St Judes, Croi Ró Naofa, St Kevins St Killians and St Marys. Dublin GAA Co. Committee (ie all the clubs in County Dublin) also voted unamously to support these clubs in their High Court action.
Shamrock Rovers FC have defaulted in the past on Tax and/or VAT payments and have actually been re-constituted to get around tax laws - why then should they be bank rolled by the State to cover the cost of "their" stadium.
Dublin Co Board have land in Rathcoole- the difference is that they purchased the land from the County Council unlike Rovers who are getting a state sponsored present of theirs. Part of the Rathcoole deal was that a road would be provided to the landlocked site by the Council. 12 years on and the South Dublin County Council have still failed to provide that road and the land continues to be inaccessable to the Dublin GAA County Board.
When the Lansdowne Road re-development was first planned the Minister Mr O Donoghue stated that it would be of demensions suitable for GAA games as well as the other codes. He has changed his mind on that without reason and is now refusing to allow GAA matches there. What is his problem with the GAA in Dublin???
It is galling to read and listen to FAI people talk as if they own Tallaght and indeed Lansdowne Road. It should be noted that up to now no national soccer association in Europe owns their own stadium. They depend on clubs or other codes (in Englands FA case a Code in another Country ie Wales RFU) to give them a home for their games. Why when GAA and Rugby have their own stadiums should we be blackmailed in the so-called national interest to give the FAI stadiums for nothing.
It should also be noted that the English Rugby Union when asked refused point blank to allow Twickenham be used by the English FA. Yet the GAA are abused for not jumping immediately to hand over the keys of Croke Park.
Committee Man , Dublin Ireland , 19/12/2006 at 16:26

Some more food for thought!

[paul_oshea]

It may not enter the world of some of our National side only fans, but CP is definitly a doubt from both ends from 08.

Not from the GAA side it is not.


yeah likewise, im in shock, Dervan has just written a whole article that i agree with totally, wow, thats amazing

in fairness, benno its on about the same level as you write, so ye would have a good understanding and empathy. btw are you coming tonight?

I don't really know the ins and outs of it to be honest, it being what is happening in tallaght, but one thing is it does show hypocrisy, fair enough the g.a.a are letting soccer in croke park, and let soccer players use their facilities ( gym etc ) up and down the country, but on a larger scale they make a point of soccer being restricted in g.a.a grounds, so trying to share a pitch in tallaght does smack of hypocrisy. I think I read before that the GAA were backing Thomas Davis? If this is the case its worse, if not it might not have anything to do with the GAA as ye say, and maybe some small minded individuals in tallaght, or some big minded individuals in tallaght, who would like to share facilities with their sporting counter-parts. Either way, from a standing brief, a neutral point of view I think there is more to it than the one side we are seeing on foot.ie ( as always ) ;) ;) :)

[geysir]

So whats happening in Tallaght then?

What's happening in Tallaght is a seperate issue from from the rental agreement to use Croke Park. The FAI have nothing in contract about practice sessions for the home team outside of the usual pre-match day kick around. Nicky Brennan is not obliged to honour verbal promises made by his predecessor Séan Kelly.
I dont know any details of the contract with Rovers or the political promises given to both sides to use the Tallaght pitch. But the mess that SRFC got into over the decades (without GAA intervention) is well documented. It's a pity they didn't take a few leaves out of the structure that Bohemians' members established decades ago.
The assets of all GAA clubs are constitutionally protected from the actions of speculators/vultures.
I hope Rovers get their ground, exclusive use - no question and outgrow it in a few years.

[Billsthoughts]

A GAA perspective as posted on a well known Gaa site
Tallaght Stadium
A few facts about Tallaght Stadium. It is a Community Stadium to be paid for by the Government and South Dublin County Council therefore it should be open to all members of the community including the GAA Community.WHY? IT IS OPEN TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY TO GO SEE SHAMROCK ROVERS PLAY THERE IF THEY WANT? WAS THE SAME RULES APPLIED TO THE PUBLICLY FUNDED CROKE PARK? SHOULD WE ALLOW HORSE RACING ON IT AS WELL? THEY ARE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY A full meeting of South Dublin County Council voted 27 to 1 in November 2005 to amend their plans to allow a GAA pitch be developed in Tallaght as part of the Stadium plans.YEAH THE PARAGONS OF VIRTUE IN SDCC:rolleyes: COUNCIL CORRUPTION IS A PROVEN FACT They overturned this decision some months later on the instruction of the Minister for Sport John O’Donoghue who informed them that he would not supply funding if the GAA pitch was included in the Stadium plans. No reason was given for this by the Minister.
Thomas Davis are the named club taking the Court action. They are fully supported by Faughs, St Annes, St Judes, Croi Ró Naofa, St Kevins St Killians and St Marys. Dublin GAA Co. Committee (ie all the clubs in County Dublin) also voted unamously to support these clubs in their High Court action.
Shamrock Rovers FC have defaulted in the past on Tax and/or VAT payments and have actually been re-constituted to get around tax laws HAVE ONLY STOPPED LAUGHING AT THIS ONE - GOD HELP THE GAA IF THEY ARE EVER SUBJECTED TO THE SAME SCRUTINY BY THE REVENUE AS EL CLUBS - why then should they be bank rolled by the State to cover the cost of "their" stadium.WHY NOT? EVERY GAA CLUB IN THE COUNTRY HAS RECD STATE FUNDING TO IMPROVE THEIR FACILITIES
Dublin Co Board have land in Rathcoole- the difference is that they purchased the land from the County Council NOT EXACTLY TRUE - THIS LAND WAS PAID FOR BY MONEY COLLECTED FROM LOCAL RESIDENTS TO FUND A PARK WITH AMENITIES - THE COUNCIL THREATENED TO BUILD A HALTING SITE THERE AND THEN SOLD PART OF THE LAND TO THE GAA. THAT DOESNT SMELL FISHY AT ALL? THE REASON NO ACCESS HAS BEEN PUT IN SINCE IS RELATED TO THE HALTING SITE unlike Rovers who are getting a state sponsored present of theirs. Part of the Rathcoole deal was that a road would be provided to the landlocked site by the Council. 12 years on and the South Dublin County Council have still failed to provide that road and the land continues to be inaccessable to the Dublin GAA County Board.
When the Lansdowne Road re-development was first planned the Minister Mr O Donoghue stated that it would be of demensions suitable for GAA games as well as the other codes. He has changed his mind on that without reason and is now refusing to allow GAA matches there. What is his problem with the GAA in Dublin??? THEY HAVE THEIR OWN GROUNDS - THEY NEVER LET ANYONE ELSE USE - YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW
It is galling to read and listen to FAI people talk as if they own Tallaght and indeed Lansdowne Road. It should be noted that up to now no national soccer association in Europe owns their own stadium. They depend on clubs or other codes (in Englands FA case a Code in another Country ie Wales RFU) to give them a home for their games. HIGHLY DUBIOUS Why when GAA and Rugby have their own stadiums should we be blackmailed in the so-called national interest to give the FAI stadiums for nothing. CANT REMEMBER THE GAA RENTING CROKE PARK FOR FREE
It should also be noted that the English Rugby Union when asked refused point blank to allow Twickenham be used by the English FA. STATED ELSEWHERE THAT THIS IS DUE TO LOCAL RESIDENTS IN A WELL OFF PART OF LONDON Yet the GAA are abused for not jumping immediately to hand over the keys of Croke Park.
Committee Man , Dublin Ireland , 19/12/2006 at 16:26

Some more food for thought!

Apologies for the caps. AFAIK Rovers is owned by ordinary fans. surely people can see that its morally wrong for the GAA in tallaght to try and destroy a club that ordinary people(not millionaires) have taken out mortgages on to keep going.

[Wolfie]

this is a bunch of local clubs who fancy getting a southside Parnell Park.



There could well be an element of truth to that. It would certainly do them no harm. Parnell Park provides a perfectly viable and sustainable option for the Dubs League games at the moment and there is no need for a second venue to host the games. However - It won't stop them trying though.

The Tallaght situation is inexcusable and I hope Rovers prevail in the end as they approach 20 years homeless.

On the broader issue of FAI / GAA tensions - we'll have to bow to Cathal Dervans inspired clarion call to move the matches to Tolka Park. Damn their eyes - TO TOLKA!!

Dervan wagers we'll be watching Ireland in a completed Abbotstown in 5 years - if he has his way we'll be still at Tolka Park.

Muppet.

[reder]

If a GAA man said that, they'd be a bigot. I've seen Dervan make this point a hundred times, that the Unionists on the 32 county Irish rugby team should accept Amhran na Bhfiann as their national anthem.

I have only ever gone to one rugby international in my life. It was against England last time. I was sitting beside an irish fan from the north, he stood and sang GSTQ (and i mean sang) and stood in slience for ANB. He then sang Irelands call loud and proud. We started to chat, I have/had a 50-50 scouse/irish accent and we started to talk about Liverpool etc and it turns out he visits Anfield (the area) for orange marchs and is a loyalist. I then asked him about supporting Ireland in rugby and the anthems. He told me that GSTQ is his anthem but the irish rugby team is a team for the island of ireland and he considers Ireland call the anthem for the team. I then asked him about going to games in Croker (IF rugby went there). He said he would prefer not to set foot in the place but he has gone to every ireland game for a long time and not going doesnt help the team and puts a smile of the their faces. He told me he will act the same as he does everywhere else, wear the same jersey but will be bringing a union jack to the game.



I was also under the impression that the FAI were set to make more money from their games in Croke Park than in any previous games in their history. A sure example of the GAA trying to kill off soccer.


NO! They will make far less and the loss of friendlies will really hit them in the pocket.



I was also under the impression that the GAA fougth the objections of the residents to get floodlights installed in Drumcondra. No easy task, if anyone knows the history of the residents objections.

Sorry, I dont know where you get this from but its wrong. The residents in that area get treated like dirt by them and have no say in what gets built or goes on in the area. I have a friend who lived there for 1 year. On match days, you have to get a permit for the police to enter by the barriers if you are a resident. Also the GAA take no responsibility for anything their fans do outside the ground. Many many locals front gardens are used as toilets and for other purposes and nothing is ever done about it.

Also the residents NEVER get any tickets etc given as compo. Before any says it they get concert tickets but they are donated by the concert promoter not the GAA.



A few facts about Tallaght Stadium. It is a Community Stadium to be paid for by the Government and South Dublin County Council therefore it should be open to all members of the community including the GAA Community.


A few facts about Croke Park. It is a Community Stadium paid for by the Government and the tax-payer, therefore ........

[paul_oshea]

but will be bringing a union jack to the game.


does he bring union jacks to landsdowne road, if not he is a ****-stirrer and should be barred from all ireland games of any kind. not that that will happen btw.


It is a Community Stadium paid for by the Government and the tax-payer, therefore ........

thta sounds like a mutually exclusive-collectively exhaustive statement, that is so wrong ye dope. some was paid for by the government.....we have been through this before.

Finally bar friendlies the FAI ( per game that is ) will make more money.

[kingdom hoop]

Billsthoughts;its not the GAAs duty to attempt to destroy one of our most famous football clubs by dragging them thru the courts indefinitely either but thats what they are doing out in tallaght. its questionable whether rovers bein out there will have any effect on them whatsoever. so why are they doing what they are doing?
__________________

i fail to see why the gaa could be held responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of a minority few in its voluntary organisation. is it the english fa's fault that english hooligans exist?

should the gaa come out and say that tallaght needs a large gaelic stadium, or should it stand up for the plight of rovers? clearly its not in a position to do either. it is a delicate situation that is only serving to provide an outlet for bigots to air their grievances about other codes, to the detriment of sport. the fraught history of sport on this fair isle looks, disappointingly, to be continuing as progress elsewhere continues apace

back to bill in the studio

[paul_oshea]

well said kingdom.

[Block G Raptor]

this is a bunch of local clubs who fancy getting a southside Parnell Park.
I remember hearing that the GAA wanted to split the Dubs into North and South in the Championsh1t maybee they want Tallaght to be home to south Dublin

[geysir]

A few facts about Croke Park. It is a Community Stadium paid for by the Government and the tax-payer, therefore ........
Myth not fact. The GAA started the project on their own without any cast iron guarantees. They have received less for developing Croke Park than the IRFU/FAI will receive for the new Landsdowne rd.

[Kingdom]

Myth not fact. The GAA started the project on their own without any cast iron guarantees. They have received less for developing Croke Park than the IRFU/FAI will receive for the new Landsdowne rd.

Plus I think the point they are making is they own the ground on which the taxpayers footed part of the bill for redevelopment, as opposed to the SDCC owning the land in Tallaght.

[pete]

Myth not fact. The GAA started the project on their own without any cast iron guarantees. They have received less for developing Croke Park than the IRFU/FAI will receive for the new Landsdowne rd.

Are you sure? I would guess the GAA have easiely received over 100m (off hand there was the 60m Bertie promised before getting cabinet approval, 3-4m for recent floodlights, payment for renting ground to the FAI/IRFU?) by now for Croke Park. AFAIK the FAI & IRFU are receiving 170m between them for Lansdowne Road which would be 85m each.

I would overall all 3 bodies on a par at this stage.

[kingdom hoop]

croke park, one stadium 100m

landsdowne road, one stadium 170m

i think that was the point being made

[khoop]

Amid all this discussion, everyone - including the GAA of course - is forgetting that the GAA have a prime site in every village and town in Ireland - many of which they now want to flog off for enormous profit - merely because the unholy trinity of the GAA, the Catholic church and the politicians ensured that the GAA got these sites, essentially for free, over the decades - while the "foreign" sports were banned to the wilderness.

Funny how the GAA always forgets where the ludicrous imbalance originally started.

[gspain]

The GAA received ~€160 million of public money for Croke Park. Most of it was back in the mid 90's when it went a bit further and would buy a hell of a lot more property.

[kingdom hoop]

Amid all this discussion, everyone - including the GAA of course - is forgetting that the GAA have a prime site in every village and town in Ireland - many of which they now want to flog off for enormous profit - merely because the unholy trinity of the GAA, the Catholic church and the politicians ensured that the GAA got these sites, essentially for free, over the decades - while the "foreign" sports were banned to the wilderness.

Funny how the GAA always forgets where the ludicrous imbalance originally started.

Funny too how the gaa is referred to as some sort of dr.evil figure holed away in a transylvanian castle stroking his cat..

if we are getting into some sort of historical rambling session all sports are foreign to ireland except the gaa.. outrageous comments by and large, i presume you're just trying to stoke a bit of nationalistic debate, lets see who'll be jumping for that ball

are you suggesting influence was exerted over the british government by the catholic church to secure valuable plots of land previously the preserve of viscounts and such? i'll bow to some evidence of this but i'm still in shock at the moment to be doing any such bowing

and to be fair the plots that are being sold are county grounds that are old fashioned and need renovating, which is easiest done by moving out of congested towns to the outskirts where infrastructure is more suitable and the net result will be nicer more comfortable stands for the populous, with money left over to plough back into the grassroots.

begrudgery, but i guess denouncing the opposition is better than trying to improve one's own lot? oh, but its the governments fault sur

[geysir]

The GAA received ~€160 million of public money for Croke Park. Most of it was back in the mid 90's when it went a bit further and would buy a hell of a lot more property.
Ah the soccer bigots are coming out of their lairs in droves.
Your figures are way off.
No wonder the GAA can play cat and mouse with the Irish soccer. What a bunch of victims.
For developing Croke Park, from circa '98 onwards the GAA have received on ave. €12.5m. p/a for 5 years
then Croke Pk got €15m to develop the Hogan stand for the special olympics
Then came the much hyped strings attached €60m in recent years.

Then add to that whatever since for Hill 16, lights.

FAI and IRFU have been promised €180m?

[reder]

croke park, one stadium 100m

landsdowne road, one stadium 170m

i think that was the point being made

The lack of accuracy in some of your statements is insane. Luckily I actually know the facts. I love the spin you have put on the figures above, credit where credit is due you make it look good. You should look for a job in the PR dept of the GAA (if you dont have one already).

On 1st January 2002, Ireland started using the Euro. The GAA grants, which were never in doubt, (and I can categorically tell you the money was put aside well before any work started or permission was granted), summed to a little over £100m punts which is €128m. Now if you wish I can factor in the rise in inflation from the 90's to 2006 to give a modern day reflection on that loan and if you really are a stickler, I can give you the figures detailing the surplus form which the loan sums are taken to convey the point that the loan given by the government to the GAA (an amateur organisation) far far surpasses that given to the FAI and IRFU combined.



thta sounds like a mutually exclusive-collectively exhaustive statement, that is so wrong ye dope. some was paid for by the government.....we have been through this before.

Finally bar friendlies the FAI ( per game that is ) will make more money.

Paul O' Shea I dont know where to start with this!! Croke Park was built by government and tax payers money. Thats just a solid fact. Without that money, the stadium would never have happened. As I said previously the money was put aside well before anyone knew about the idea. It was a done deal. There is nothing more I can say about this, I can just tell you its 100000% fact.

On the money per game, perhaps you have seen the figures and I stand corrected if someone who has can tell me otherwise but I have been told that they will not make more money.

Also, I never asked him whether he brings a union jack or not to all games, I only sat beside him once. Its his right to bring whatever flag he wants to a game. Given the GAA's anti-garrison stance, I can totally understand him doing so. That clause in their constitution is an insult and slur to thats mans heritage. I will be VERY interested to see the policy on banners for our games. Hopefully the rovers and EL fans will bring loads of nice banners to hang for the GAA if the rovers issue is not resolved.

Finally I must say, I hope to god that rovers get the green light and all clear for their home in Tallaght.

[pete]

Conclusive proof of the money for GAA, IRFU & FAI (http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/publications/release.asp?ID=659)


John O'Donoghue TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, today (Thursday 30th September, 2004) announced that the Government has agreed to provide a further and final grant of €40 million to the GAA over the next two years towards the cost of the redevelopment of Croke Park. €20 million will be paid this year with a further €20 million being paid in 2005. This additional grant will bring the level of Exchequer contribution to €110 million towards the €265 million cost of the whole project.

Croke Park redevelopment: 113.65m (includes 3.65 for floodlights recently)
Lansdowne Road: 191m

I would be surprised if the Croke Park figure included the 15m for the special Olympics.

It should also be highlighted that for their 191m the government will retain a stake in the Lansdowne Road stadium which obviously they don't have in Croke Park. This whole spin that the GAA built Croke Park themselves is clearly bull.

[Wolfie]

The Soccer versus Gaelic debate will endure for decades to come and beyond.

The stated animosity between the two organisations is all relative to the previous levels of bigotry that existed in the past.

Liam Brady and David O'Leary wote about their experiences of "The Ban" while they attended Christian Brothers Schools. I remember Liam Brady writing that he had to defy a Christian Brother and not turn up for a Gaelic Football game for the school because he had the honour of representing Ireland Schoolboys on the same day. He was suspended. An isolated incident - but symptomatic of the lunatics that were at large at the time.

The expedient and practical necessity is that Croke park has been secured for the Euro Qualifiers and hopefully beyond. Playing in Britain would have been a sad state of affairs.

It makes sound business sense for the GAA and they will derive some positive PR from opening up the ground the the other "codes" - in addition to the obvious monetary gains.

I still have positive vibes for the Croker games - hopefully the lunatic fringes on both sides don't jeopardise that with practically weeks to go to the Welsh game.

[kingdom hoop]

The lack of accuracy in some of your statements is insane. Luckily I actually know the facts. I love the spin you have put on the figures above, credit where credit is due you make it look good. You should look for a job in the PR dept of the GAA (if you dont have one already).



Whoa, whats that about??:mad:

i quoted a few figures that were in previous posts because pete's post was implying that the fai and irfu should individually get what the gaa got when its only one stadium being built. i apologise for using figures that others bandied about, but as my signature says i'm more of an opinions man. it is lucky you are here, well until someone else comes along with new facts at least.

what other inaccurate statements are insane by the way, this is of grave concern to me as even though i live quite near the dundrum mental hospital i've never fancied having a look over those walls..please inform so i can see to this worry.

i dont see the point of the kerfuffle over who gets what anyway. i never question our taoiseach's integrity!!

i am a fair man, a sports fan, and as such i dont think i should be villified for having a balanced few of things. if this was a gaelic forum i'd defend the fai where there were bigots and the same is true here. dont get me wrong though i love a bit of banter, keep it coming

[khoop]

are you suggesting influence was exerted over the british government by the catholic church to secure valuable plots of land previously the preserve of viscounts and such?

As usual, you are just waffling. The vast majority of the GAA grounds were of course attained after the brits had left. In the 20s and 30s (and later) the Catholic church totally controlled every village in Ireland. Like the GAA, a shower of bigots - and they ensured by coercion that the GAA got whatever they damn wanted.

It would be VERY interesting if all the county boards who are now presenting themselves as some sort of shrewd property speculators were to publicly state how much the properties cost in the first place. Most likely, nothing. At best, a couple of shillings.

[Calcio Jack]

__________________

i fail to see why the gaa could be held responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of a minority few in its voluntary organisation.

__________________________________________________ __-

Classic excuse.... if what they are doing is so reprehensible to the majority of GAA members then why don't the majority of GAA members issue a public statement condeming them.Also why aren't they expelled as well ????

[pete]

Moderator Warning: To All - Please refrain from insults if you want to continue this debate.