View Full Version : BUPA closing in Fermoy
Clifford
14/12/2006, 11:00 AM
Hi all,
Breaking news that BUPA have informed their staff that it is pulling out of Ireland almost totally. Apparently a press release is due at 12.45ish.
That's from someone working there.
Hat's off to Bertie, fat Mary and co.
drummerboy
14/12/2006, 11:10 AM
****. Will have to check out Vivas
Clifford
14/12/2006, 11:13 AM
Back to being raped by vhi more like, I hear Vivas are expensive.
Lionel Ritchie
14/12/2006, 11:25 AM
Ah Fcuk em!!
...and I'm a BUPA customer. They're not much cheaper than VHI anyway.
Not allowed make as big a profit -but still an attractive profit - so they're puncturing the ball and going home for their tea.
I say again ...fcuk em!!!
The government have failed to provide a health insurance market. With stories of public patients having shorter waitng periods than private people could see more people opting out of private insurance altogehter which again will cost the tax paper more money.
I expect stealth price rises now from VHI with more or less zero competition.
BrayUnknowns
14/12/2006, 12:39 PM
What happens now? i presume all direct debits will be just closed off and it's up to BUPA customers to go and look for new health insurance
I expect stealth price rises now from VHI with more or less zero competition.
Eh, all Private Health Care was going up anyway, as the Government increased the charges - it was one of the stealth taxes in the budget.
As for BUPA pulling out, they knew that we had community rating and risk equalisation in this market. And there is a market, as VIVAS are happy to carry on. BUPA are just spitting the dummy as they thought they could bully the state - they'd still be profitable, just not quite as profitable.
Unless people genuinely want to remove the community rating and have a situation like the UK where you can only afford private health insurance as long as you're not sick? i.e. as soon as you claim, or become high risk, the charges simply become too much to pay.
As for BUPA pulling out, they knew that we had community rating and risk equalisation in this market. And there is a market, as VIVAS are happy to carry on.
Vivas only market to company group schemes. If average Joes & Joesphines started looking for cover they'd be gone in a shot.
I think 2 years ago the government added the benefit on kind stealth tax on health insurance.
Sometimes I woner what the point of private health insurance anyway. I learnt recently that if in for cardiac surgery you don't stuck in cardiac ward no matter whether public or private status anyway...
Sometimes I woner what the point of private health insurance anyway.
Well there is a theory that you'd be better off saving the amount and using it when you are actually ill, although the way this Government is thinking there'll soon be a means test on this too :rolleyes:
I'd much rather pay the extra amount that I currently spend on health insurance as income tax or a health service levy that would give us a top class public health service for everyone.
RonnieB
14/12/2006, 12:57 PM
If it wasnt for having health insurance I would still be hobbling around and 6000 poorer.
I'd much rather pay the extra amount that I currently spend on health insurance as income tax or a health service levy that would give us a top class public health service for everyone.
I believe the germans have some system like that where you pay from income tax so the more you earn the more you pay. If you in very top pay bracket you arrange privately yourself.
Members are entitled to transfer to another insurer with no break in insurance cover.
Clifford
14/12/2006, 3:13 PM
It's the bleedin 300 or so jobs in Fermoy that annoy me. Dagger to the heart of the town.
I think I'll just put a set amount into some savings or other as suggested above for a rainy day. Fed up of this place. Really fed up with the dictators running the place. Forced out for making profits and employing loads. You couldn't make it up.
It's the bleedin 300 or so jobs in Fermoy that annoy me. Dagger to the heart of the town.
Fermoy is very close to Cork city especially with new Motorway so should be enough options. It would be worse if was in some town in ths sticks.
Clifford
14/12/2006, 3:36 PM
Oh yeah, the unused tolled motorway, all of 8 km's of it that are relevant to people in Fermoy. Sweet. Cork City doesn't need the extra 300 hundred people to shop/live/socialise in the town, Fermoy does.
dahamsta
15/12/2006, 12:52 AM
What happens now? i presume all direct debits will be just closed off and it's up to BUPA customers to go and look for new health insuranceNo, they just won't renew policies, and they won't accept any more customers.
Calcio Jack
15/12/2006, 3:09 PM
BUPA...the Dundalk of the Eircom Helathcare league... they knew the rules re community rating (risk equalisation) before they set up their operation (sorry !!) here
On a more serious point and as already mentioned...I believe that community rating makes sense as it it means that all members pay the same premium so matter what thier age...so suure you pay a little more when you are younger but at least when you get older and more likely to need the cover you can afford it. Also and this is a very personally view, many people have paid VHI contributions for a long number of years, in my case continousely since 1977, so we'd be pretty ****ed of it we were now told that in future our premiums would be based on our age and community rating no lomnger existed and we were getting no "allowence" for the fact that we paid high preimums when we were younger
anto1208
15/12/2006, 4:28 PM
How come as a young person I pay far more in car insurance because im in the “higher risk bracket”
Now for my health insurance im in the “lower risk bracket” I should be getting a cheaper premium but no ive to subsidise the older more “risky” clients !!
Surely insurance should be based on the risk posed .
Saint Tom
15/12/2006, 7:00 PM
How come as a young person I pay far more in car insurance because im in the “higher risk bracket”
Now for my health insurance im in the “lower risk bracket” I should be getting a cheaper premium but no ive to subsidise the older more “risky” clients !!
Surely insurance should be based on the risk posed .
you make a very fair point Anto, I think younger people between crippling mortage payments, high motor insurances and lower wages (then say the 40-65 age bracket) have it much tougher than people nearing retirement
Surely insurance should be based on the risk posed .
For car insuranace it will be argued that statistically young people more prone to claim so it is a mystery why not applied to health insurance. If you prove you are a safe driver through track record you get car insurance discount yet for health insurance healthy people pay the same as alcoholics, smokers etc...
:confused:
Bupa closing 300 office jobs doesn't not kill Fermoy. Its not as these specialist jobs that no other company works at. All means that people may have to travel further to find work.
Bupa closing 300 office jobs doesn't not kill Fermoy. Its not as these specialist jobs that no other company works at. All means that people may have to travel further to find work.
Or cleaning loos, eh Pete?
Glad I'm not with BUPA. Ridiculous carry on by them.
rebs23
18/12/2006, 3:20 PM
Its more ridicolous for the Irish Government to change the ground rules on risk equalisation in 2003, nearly 10 years after BUPA entered the market.
Its more ridicolous that nearly 300 people are out of a job(potentially) after a government decision to protect a semi state competitor in such an unfair manner. I don't think anyone is against risk equalisation, its the manner and amount are the issue.
Its a bit ridicolous the threats from BUPA and I have a feeling they won't pull out but still.................
Or cleaning loos, eh Pete?
:rolleyes:
All i am saying is its reported as if a massive blow to rural town when realistically Fermoy is a commuter town to Cotk City like say Naas or Drogheda to Dublin. Obviously theres uncertainty for people just before christmas but I would guess Bupa will exist for at least another 6 months so staff will have choice to looking for work now or waiting for redendency - i would imagine Bupa being large international company they will give good packages over the statutory requirement.
BTW Bupa operate in community rated market in the UK too so its not as if they protesting about that.
Whoevers fault you think it is still means very bad day for the consumer - VHI will now be a public monopoly with virtaully no competition so expect bigger increases in the years to come.
VHI will now be a public monopoly with virtaully no competition so expect bigger increases in the years to come.
All recent increases have been due to budget decisions on the cost of hospital beds - there's more due since the last budget. The Governments latest plan is that VHI will have to build it's reserve to commercial levels, which will lead to further increases out of the VHI's hands.
btw, If competition was so great in the market why did it allow Bupa to build up such large profits? BUPA wasn't some great White night championing the consumer. It was raking in the profits in this country. It's decision to pull out in a sulk is exactly why the consumer needs the protection of a state body in the health insurance market - we know the VHI isn't going to spit the dummy and just walk away from it's customers.
btw, If competition was so great in the market why did it allow Bupa to build up such large profits?.
Its been mentioned they would have 61m profits over 3 years.I don't think i'd call 20m or so a year large profit.
They said they had 475k members so i suppose 600-700 euro a year would be reasonable estimate per person? Leaves with 300m or so turnover. Looking at 6.66% profit before risk equalisation. I think i read they earn 4-5% profit in the UK so Ireland small fry compared to worldwide interests.
I've no idea if Bupa good bad or indifferent but at least they kept VHI on their toes. I think you will see Vivas pull out in the next few years when they get risk equalidation bill too. I don't know what the solution but VHI as incumbant had many advantages to balance against the fact they have older customers. VHI have just as many company schemes & nothing stopping them targetting younger customers too.
I;ve nothing against a well run public health system but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Given the system we have VHI with 90% market share can't be good.
Well personally I think we're just too small a market. Every privatisation and deregulation of domestic markets has lead to massive cost increases to consumers rather than reductions, and a big fall off in service levels. That is even before you take into account the building up of profitability before privatisation to make them attractive. Deregulation is a failed policy in Ireland for the only people that matter - the consumer.
drummerboy
19/12/2006, 8:06 AM
Looks like BUPA are starting to row back on their decision. They are making all the sound bites of someone who wants to re-negotiate their position. This was more or less admitted by McDowell on TV last night.
Clifford
19/12/2006, 8:39 AM
Looks like BUPA are starting to row back on their decision. They are making all the sound bites of someone who wants to re-negotiate their position. This was more or less admitted by McDowell on TV last night.
Looks like the Government are starting to row back on their decision. They are making all the sound bites of someone who wants to re-negotiate their position. This was more or less admitted by McDowell on TV last night.
dahamsta
19/12/2006, 9:25 AM
Who could possibly know that a corporation would resort to scumbag tactics as negotiating measures? It's unprecedented!
Student Mullet
19/12/2006, 4:58 PM
Well personally I think we're just too small a market. Every privatisation and deregulation of domestic markets has lead to massive cost increases to consumers rather than reductions, and a big fall off in service levels. That is even before you take into account the building up of profitability before privatisation to make them attractive. Deregulation is a failed policy in Ireland for the only people that matter - the consumer.I dinno, I got a fairly cheap ryanair flight to San Marino.
Quick..........to the socialism thread.
I suppose if you're happy with the outstanding customer service levels of Ryanair, however, I did say domestic markets.
I suppose if you're happy with the outstanding customer service levels of Ryanair, however, I did say domestic markets.
25 euro return dublin-cork, never late, never any problems. Its a bus that flys. If we were still relying on Aer Lingus would cost 200 euro & go via Shannon.
Taxi deregulation has been a good thing. Limited bus regulation on some routes adds more options to consumers.
Student Mullet
20/12/2006, 12:03 AM
I suppose if you're happy with the outstanding customer service levels of Ryanair,Their levels of service are similar to the publicly run dublin bus and the flight was cheaper than the 1.55 I pay to get into town. Overall I'm quite happy.
rebs23
20/12/2006, 10:46 AM
Suprise Suprise;-
http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1220/bupa.html
dahamsta
20/12/2006, 10:53 AM
The words "toys" and "pram" keep getting stronger and stronger in my head.
I'd prefer if they'd go tbh. It's greedy pr*cks like this give corporations a bad name; not happy with a profit, they have to virtually rape their customers before they're happy. The less of it we have in Ireland, the better.
adam
The words "toys" and "pram" keep getting stronger and stronger in my head.
I'd prefer if they'd go tbh. It's greedy pr*cks like this give corporations a bad name; not happy with a profit, they have to virtually rape their customers before they're happy. The less of it we have in Ireland, the better.
Bizarre decision alright.
They are making approx 6% profit before risk equalisation so hardly fleasing the consumer. Its nearsighted to suggest consumer loses because they make profits.
Its a bit like the Ryanair scenario, even if you not a customer you are probably paying less with VHI because Bupa exist. Ryanair makes vast profits yet the consumer pays less for all flights now on all airlines. e.g. been travelling to Oslo a few times recently for work mainly with SAS (nice service but can be very expensive). Ryanair now fly direct from Dublin. I'll be off again in January - compared flight prices: Ryanair direct 50 euro, SAS economy 250 euro indirect.
BUPA...the Dundalk of the Eircom Helathcare league
I'm just waiting for a BUPA member to enter the department of health with a can of petrol.
Despite being a BUPA member I've no sympathy at all for them. They wanted everything their own way and ignored the fact that risk equalization was always part of the deal. Seems to me they came here to make a fast buck and hoped to bully the government into letting it continue.
Balls to them.
dahamsta
20/12/2006, 12:06 PM
I don't have a problem with profits pete, I make them myself. I have a problem with greed. 6% profit is not to be sneezed at in a market of that scale.
adam
I don't have a problem with profits pete, I make them myself. I have a problem with greed. 6% profit is not to be sneezed at in a market of that scale.
adam
6% profits is not high. Risk equalisation would remove that profit. Maybe Bupa have too much staff & admin costs too high but it cannot be good that VHI have 90% of the market?
dahamsta
20/12/2006, 4:11 PM
As I said, 6% is not low for a market of that scale. And I'm sorry, but I don't believe that risk equalisation would 'remove' that profit. We have a government full of incompetents and chancers, but they're not stupid enough to propose a system that would expect a business to run at a loss; particularly not this government, with their gung-ho 'pro-business' partners in crime. No, it wouldn't be good for VHI to have 90% of the market, but it's not good to have a portion of the market operated by a company that puts profits above all else either. They've already proved that they're willing and able to use deception and bullying as tactics. Six of one...
adam
anto1208
21/12/2006, 12:23 AM
did anyone else hear that in i think its Oz it s the other way around and Bupa
get compensated there .
Taxi deregulation has been a good thing. Limited bus regulation on some routes adds more options to consumers.
The new national fare has increased fares by about a 1/3 in my experience in Longford.
The new national fare has increased fares by about a 1/3 in my experience in Longford.
Before deregulation it was almost impossible to find a taxi after 10pm at night any day of the week.
Clifford
31/01/2007, 3:25 PM
Apparently Quinn direct have stepped in and taken over the BUPA membership as of now. Just been chatting to someone there, but they seem to think jobs saved with immediate effect.
Apparently Quinn direct have stepped in and taken over the BUPA membership as of now. Just been chatting to someone there, but they seem to think jobs saved with immediate effect.
I would wager money that Quinn Direct will not pay equalisation payments from day one. They'll be gone in few years when the equalisation payments are due.
Kingdom
31/01/2007, 5:48 PM
On 6.01 there a fe wmoments ago. Quinn group taking over with immediate effect and are offering existing customers up for renewal the same premium as last year, Also said they do not have to pay risk equalisation fees. Bothing to change in Fermoy, all systems go.
dahamsta
31/01/2007, 6:18 PM
They say (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0131/bupa.html) they’re a new entrant and thus shouldn’t pay risk equalisation, and the Quinn rep on 6.1 news was talking about an even playing fields. Which begs the questions:
Are they a new entrant? They’re certainly not a new entrant to the insurance market.
Did Gov.ie approve the takeover and thus approve Quinn’s assertions on the aforementioned?
What happens in three years, when the exemption expires?Watching the Quinn rep (was it Sean?) on 6.1 was a hoot. He can’t maintain eye contact with a tv camera, never mind a human being.
drummerboy
31/01/2007, 6:23 PM
Just switched from Bupa to Vivas yesterday as policy runs out today. Wonder if I can change it back tomorrow without penalty.
The Ref
31/01/2007, 8:42 PM
Before deregulation it was almost impossible to find a taxi after 10pm at night any day of the week.
And that has changed now? Not in my experence!:rolleyes:
What happens in three years, when the exemption expires?
Back to same situation that Bupa were in couple of months ago.
I don't know when Vivas due to start paying equalisation payments but they won't pay them either...
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