Article in Financial Times

[NY Hoop]

on second thoughts 'IRISHFAN (:rolleyes: )' you are right:

buy a team but dont let
'Paddy part-time play'
because you might get
' a select few hardcore fans blinded by the romanticism of days long gone by'
going to the games and next thing you know we'll all be
'down the street in the pouring rain'

why don't the FAI not just buy blackburn rovers (a EPL team from a town with roughly the same population as co. galway) who already have a following here :rolleyes: to locate in abbotstown and then we will become a world super power. problem solved - why are we wasting our time developing players here anyhow and all this tripe about development plans and such -


of course the new ' FAI Blackburn Rovers FC ' will develop the game here and not in the slightest be worried about staying in the Premiership (with all its money and glamour) and thus will field an entirely irish team made up of local lads who will go on to become the international equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters and not buy any foreign players at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH NO! i just woke up with my nose in my bowl of corn flakes


Irishfan (oh the irony) is a WUM. Knows next to nothing about our league but because there are a empty seats at games we should forget the whole thing because it rains as well:rolleyes:

Clueless beyond the normal WUM.

KOH

[galwayhoop]

Regarding your last point, if Ireland had a Premiership or European League (if one were established) team, more Irish-born players would aspire to play for their local Premiership/Euro team, and would thus perhaps be recruited and scouted by this team's academy, instead of having to move away to England to further their careers.

i personally aspire to play up front for ireland and score in the world cup final but this doesn't really mean that i will :rolleyes:

[endabob1]

One word - Wimbledon.

[irishfan86]

The idea of a Celtic League for Football is not in theory a bad one, taking the 16 best teams from Scotland Wales & Ireland you'd probably end up with a league of Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock, Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Shels, Derry, Cork, Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown. (This is just a simplified ideal so don't get high horse we're a bigger club than A or B)

Given that the Welsh clubs would not drop out of the more lucrative English league and that Celtic & Rangers would want to ensure that they played each other 4 times a season, and the potential for trouble with the Glasgow giants going to Dublin and Belfast it seems a long shot at best.

Good post, this kind of creative thinking is what I wished to bring out through my apparently radical statements.

Irish supporters love international competition, and by playing teams from foreign nations more often, I think interest in the game would increase, even if we were entering existing Eircom League teams such as Derry, Shels and Cork as you say.

I am not advocating buying Blackburn Rovers or any foreign based club and moving it here. I am advocating the creation of a new Dublin-wide team, or the rebuilding of an existing Eircom League team that with a concentrated effort could become powerful enough to compete in Europe or at the least within neighbouring countries.

If we had quality opposition to play against, the fans would fill the seats, and a new generation of kids would aspire to become professionals for this Irish team, instead of seeking to go to England to make the big-time.

[Student Mullet]

Good post, this kind of creative thinking is what I wished to bring out through my apparently radical statements.

Irish supporters love international competition, and by playing teams from foreign nations more often, I think interest in the game would increase, even if we were entering existing Eircom League teams such as Derry, Shels and Cork as you say.

I am not advocating buying Blackburn Rovers or any foreign based club and moving it here. I am advocating the creation of a new Dublin-wide team, or the rebuilding of an existing Eircom League team that with a concentrated effort could become powerful enough to compete in Europe or at the least within neighbouring countries.

If we had quality opposition to play against, the fans would fill the seats, and a new generation of kids would aspire to become professionals for this Irish team, instead of seeking to go to England to make the big-time.What we need is a team representing all of Dublin, from Bray to Balbriggan, playing in a european superleague in front of 80,000 fans in the Bertie Bowl.

When's the last time we heard that? Bonus marks for anyone who can tell us how the team is getting on now.

[Dodge]

Any basis for this? IN reality or otherwise. Or is it a build it and they will come scenario?

[Dodge]

Not sure whether it was Wimbledon or Clydebank that was last. Or do you include Seery's Dublin City? Anyone remember the Ray Treacy (Rovers manager at the time) and Eamon Dunphy backed Dublin City for the Scottish League proposal in the late 80s/early 90s?

[galwayhoop]

What we need is a team representing all of Dublin, from Bray to Balbriggan, playing in a european superleague in front of 80,000 fans in the Bertie Bowl.

.

surely if it is to be truly representitive of dublin it will have to stretch west to kinnegad :)

[Student Mullet]

Not sure whether it was Wimbledon or Clydebank that was last. Or do you include Seery's Dublin City? Anyone remember the Ray Treacy (Rovers manager at the time) and Eamon Dunphy backed Dublin City for the Scottish League proposal in the late 80s/early 90s?
I'm sorry but I have to take your first answer.

I was, of course, refering to Ronan Seery's Dublin City and the success they had following the proposed model.

[endabob1]

Eirefan I think you missed my point, or maybe not but like the occasional All-Ireland legue thread that springs up here every couple of months the theory is one thing the practical reality is another.
The Celtic league works in Rugby because the 3 Unions involved have similar internal structures, ie. an Amatuer Club game a Professional Provincial tier and the National Side at the top of the pyramid, all 3 unions are at a similar level in terms of developent (you could argue that the Scots are behind the other 2 but in the grand scheme of things they are in the same ball park).
The practical realiy of trying to make a league like this one work would be compliated beyond belief, UEFA/FIFA would have to sanction it the English FA would have to be involved as 3 of the possible clubs ply thier trade in England, as I said the likelihood of the teams actually wanting it to happen would be doubtful, in short it will not happen in my lifetime and I hope to be around for a good few years yet!

[galwayhoop]

I am advocating the creation of a new Dublin-wide team, .
because obviously nothing happens outside dublin :rolleyes: ever hear of Derry City or Cork City - are they from Dublin?? Shels arethe only Dublin side to challenge for the eL in recent seasons and in comparison to the success they have enjoyed their support is abysmall



or the rebuilding of an existing Eircom League team that with a concentrated effort could become powerful enough to compete in Europe or at the least within neighbouring countries.
.

have eL clubs not knocked NI and Scotish teams from European competitions in the not too distant past??

[Stuttgart88]

Very true about the practical reality, but maybe UEFA could see it actually being in their interest to accomodate a radical move.

Re-Bill's comment, yes, I accept that the provincial sides were already established in rugby, but does that really change anything?

Would eL fans ''accept'' some form of aggregated representative side? Who knows, but I recall when soccerc, one of the more dedicated eL fans on this forum being chuffed to bits when one of his team's players (Pat's player, can't remember the guy's name, Keith Foy springs to mind, but I don't think he was Pats ever) played for the Irish U20s in the UAE. Whilst I didn't care who played for who, the eL fans were all rooting for their own. It's curently the same with the UCD lads and Quigley & Dicker representing the U21s. By the same token, would these people not cheer on their own if a, e.g., Pats or UCD reared player, went on to play on a bigger stage, and a home based one at that?

Again, I just want to see Irish players learning to play in Ireland and earning a living in Ireland & then the national set up could hardly fail to benefit.

Some type of Kerry Packer type rethink may be what's required because right now, despite the tradition down the years, there's little of public interest when the only factor differentiating two of Dublin's bigger teams is that one is 500 yards west of the Drumcondra Road and one is 300 yards east. You know what I'm trying to say...

[irishfan86]

because obviously nothing happens outside dublin :rolleyes: ever hear of Derry City or Cork City - are they from Dublin?? Shels arethe only Dublin side to challenge for the eL in recent seasons and in comparison to the success they have enjoyed their support is abysmall



have eL clubs not knocked NI and Scotish teams from European competitions in the not too distant past??

I have referenced Derry and Cork many times in my posts in this thread if you'd read them, but those areas simply do not have the population to support a team in a larger league.

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

I'm not talking about 80,000 seater Bertie Bowls, but filling a 25,000-35,000 stadium to me seems an attainable goal.

[nui-harp]

it's not as wild a theory as you may think.

if run the same as IRFU situation it could actually work. however it would mean a 'downgrade' if you want of the eL clubs but if you then regionalised the elite players to compete in some type of euro league you would get massive support IMO (a-la munster but dunno bout leinster :D ).

you could then use the eL as a semi-pro system like the rugby all ireland league where the elite players get full time contracts with the regional sides. it would also facilitate the 'regionalised academy' systems for elite players at underage levels and therefore not require them travelling overseas for full time pro careers.

when the rugby went fully pro most people thought we'd sink without trace and then last month we were 3rd in the world!! i don't have much time for the ruggers but they did get the professional system spot on for a small country.

the g14 wouldn't like it but then they could p*ss off and form their own 'hollywood league' which is what they want anyway!

it would require a major rethink but it may not be the total pie in the sky that it orginally sounds!

Personally I think the idea of provincial teams entering a european league is a great idea but what would happen when it comes to Ulster?? Dont really imagine 2 many people agreeing to it in the Irish League!

[Stuttgart88]

re-the Irish media & the intensity of its UK football coverage, it p1sses me off immensely. The FRONT page of the Irish Times on Monday had a colour caption advertising the MUFC vs Chelsea stalemate. As a self proclaimed footy nut, I had virtualy no interest in that game whatsoever. I agree with almost everything Karl Heinz Rumenigge has been saying. Chelsea are actually turning me off football, though I admit a fascination for Mourinho's ability to set out a team, but just as I do Martin O'Neill's or Gordon Strachan's.

I agree with irishfan's last post.

[Dodge]

Very true about the practical reality, but maybe UEFA could see it actually being in their interest to accomodate a radical move.

Re-Bill's comment, yes, I accept that the provincial sides were already established in rugby, but does that really change anything?

Would eL fans ''accept'' some form of aggregated representative side? Who knows, but I recall when soccerc, one of the more dedicated eL fans on this forum being chuffed to bits when one of his team's players (Pat's player, can't remember the guy's name, Keith Foy springs to mind, but I don't think he was Pats ever) played for the Irish U20s in the UAE. Whilst I didn't care who played for who, the eL fans were all rooting for their own. It's curently the same with the UCD lads and Quigley & Dicker representing the U21s. By the same token, would these people not cheer on their own if a, e.g., Pats or UCD reared player, went on to play on a bigger stage, and a home based one at that?

Some type of Kerry Packer type rethink may be what's required because right now, despite the tradition down the years, there's little of public interest when the only factor differentiating two of Dublin's bigger teams is that one is 500 yards west of the Drumcondra Road and one is 300 yards east. You know what I'm trying to say...

See my earlier post. The ONLY thing lacking in the league is money.

To answer your query on the representative sides. There's a world of difference between Keith Fahey being picked for his country than a provincial side picking 3/4 players from each club side and playing them every week in a different league of their own (therefore depriving the club of these players). I, and I suspect most other football fans, would not support any *******ised team. Oh and Keith Foy was at Pats for about two years. Came on as sub in the 2003 FAI Cup final.



Again, I just want to see Irish players learning to play in Ireland and earning a living in Ireland & then the national set up could hardly fail to benefit. What do you think every single league fan wants? Exactly this. But as long as there's money...

[Stuttgart88]

Keith Fahey - that's who I was trying to think of!

I don't agree that money is the only ingredient missing. And anyway, isn't there a ''chicken & egg'' situation here? Investment would only come if the set up is changed to something more marketable, unless a real estate windfall is realised across the board, like Bohs.

I'm by no means hostile to the eL or its fans. I've frozen my nads off at almost every ground in the country over the years, but I just think another model would work better, and one that would still give the eL clubs a big role to play in football in Ireland, but just not the biggest role. Pat's would still retain its ''community club'' status.

I'm afraid I can't engage in a full on debate with you about this as I've only limited web access at the moment.

[Soper]

This idea actually makes me feel physically sick.

[Stuttgart88]

I, and I suspect most other football fans, would not support any *******ised team. oh oh, back to that old chestnut '' what's a football fan?''. Most eL diehards maybe, but there are other ''dormant'' potential supporters out there. If there aren't I'm wasting my time & hopes.

[WeAreRovers]

oh oh, back to that old chestnut '' what's a football fan?''. Most eL diehards maybe, but there are other ''dormant'' potential supporters out there. If there aren't I'm wasting my time & hopes.

There aren't "dormant" fans out there, it's a myth. As Dodge and others have pointed out, Irish people will only watch winners and even then they get bored quickly.

Trying to appeal to the bandwagon, day-trippers is a Dublin Dons sized recipe for disaster. I've watched Leinster play in front of 4,000 and 40,000 in the last couple of years. Shels have played in front of similiar different sized crowds in the space of a week.

Bottom line is that eL fans are the only week-in-week-out fans in Ireland. We have, for want of a better phrase, an English attitude to supporting our teams - ie. we go all the time. And for that we get derision from barstoolers, bogballers and the media. How typically Irish is that?

KOH

[galwayhoop]

Personally I think the idea of provincial teams entering a european league is a great idea but what would happen when it comes to Ulster?? Dont really imagine 2 many people agreeing to it in the Irish League!

i only really used the analogy of the inter-pro's for example purposes. obvioulsy there is problems associated with ulster but it wouldn't necessarily have to be provincally based altho it is the easiest way to form representitive teams in this country as at least you maintain some remblence of historical demarcation.

when we were told that the league was being re-structured to create an 'elite' premier division and a less high standard Div 1 with a semi-pro conference System beneath it sounded good it theory but the fact is that all is going to happen is some clubs get promoted on other merits other than football and others relegated for the opposite. it is stupid IMO. in 5 years we will be back to where we are now anyhow so why bother. either go the whole hog or forget about it.

i know that every club has it's own history but in reality we have way too many teams competing for a limited market audience (in all honesty how many teams are in serious financial trouble?) - the inter-pro (or something along those lines) theory IMO is at least an option and i don't hear many others barr retaining the status quo or the odd eegit wanting us to buy an english team and return to the commonwealth!!.

[Real ale Madrid]

Stuttgart88 - do you support a football club of any description - premiership scottish league or anything?

[galwayhoop]

even Shels who are the league champs are in serious financial trouble and have a very small fan base.

[NY Hoop]

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

I'm not talking about 80,000 seater Bertie Bowls, but filling a 25,000-35,000 stadium to me seems an attainable goal.

Complete and utter garbage of the highest order. A few years ago some nutter wanted to merge hearts and hibs. You and him have something in common. You dont have a clue about what it means to be a football fan.

KOH

[Soper]

Also, the typical barstooler is so petty that they'd probably go out of their way to support Bulgaria United or whoever

[galwayhoop]

Complete and utter garbage of the highest order. A few years ago some nutter wanted to merge hearts and hibs.


in the end he just bought Hearts:D :D :D

[Wolfie]

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

That's a bit dismissive of the support (albeit small but dedicated) that current EL sides receive.

A rallying to a singular, hyped and artificially created Dublin team would tend to attract the dreaded Ole Ole - Give it a lash Jack brigade that have blighted most home internationals for 15 years.

[Stuttgart88]

Stuttgart88 - do you support a football club of any description - premiership scottish league or anything?

Yes, why do you ask?

I've answered this before. I used to go to Shamrock Rovers for years and if they were playing outide Dublin I'd go to UCD. During the boycott I was studying at UCD so I supported them. After college I played football at least twice a weekend (sometimes 3 times a w/e one year - Superleague, LSL and AUL) and continued to play LSL on Sundays for 8 yrs I think it was. During that time I stopped going to the eL regularly. What with training & playing, participation in live football became just too all consuming.

Also during this time my passion for the Irish team grew & grew and my main interest in football now is watching any Irish player that may contend for a place in that team. I don't know why but it's what gets inside me the most. Club teams I can take or leave, but the national team means something a lot more to me.

I grew up supporting Arsenal & Celtic and still have a very keen interest in seeing both do well, but rarely lose sleep if they don't.

As a kid I dreamt that Johnny Giles would spot me as a talented young keeper and sign me for Rovers!

I moved to the UK in 1999 and rarely watch football live. It's appalling value for money, I don't feel like I belong & spending time with my family is far more important to me.

I'm by no means trying to state that I'm the oracle on all things Irish football related, but assuming there are others like me out there I don't think it's unreasonable to contend that there are big lessons to be learnt from the reconfiguration of Irish rugby. I accept that maybe it's merely the case that Irish people couldn't be arsed but I honestly believe that some form of change can lead to Irish players staying in Ireland to earn a good living out of the game.

I thought the Gabriele Marcotti article made sense and I deemed fit to try and relate it to what I think are the difficulties standing in the way of developing Irish players, that's why I posted it.

[hoops1]

Yes, why do you ask?

I've answered this before. I used to go to Shamrock Rovers for years and if they were playing outide Dublin I'd go to UCD. During the boycott I was studying at UCD so I supported them.

I stopped reading after that. How can anyone support 2 teams in the one league?

[NY Hoop]

Stuttgart as a dormant Rovers fan could we interest you in joining the SRFC Members Club? We have lots of english based members as well as from other European countries.

You know it makes sense as it's only £7 a week and it means you would be a part owner of the club.


KOH

[Stuttgart88]

Just as I said. Maybe it's not for you but I wasn't going to break the Tolka boycott and I developed an affection for UCD while I studied there. It wasn't always in the same league either as I watched UCD playing in the colleges leagues on Wednesdays or whenever it was.

I think dismissing this is churlish and isn't it better to support two rather than none?

[Billsthoughts]

there is no guarantee any Irish Franchise in whatever form would be successful.
what crowds do chaunnacht get?
-the main problems here is there is no culture of attending games on a regular basis.
-there are no irish businessmen investing in domestic football. (the sunderland thing was a disgrace)
-People have bought into myths concerning the eircom league which dont square with the modern day reality as a way of justifying their laziness of not attending games.
-Ollie Byrne gets media coverage.
-the too many clubs in dublin thing is another myth. so let me get this straight? because of the abundance of choice the would be football fan chooses not to watch anyone due to fact he doesnt want to hurt anyones feelings?
anyways with dublin traffic the way it is inchicore and drumcondra may as well be in different continents.

I went to dublin v donegal years ago in croker with its lovely stadium and 80000 crowd and went to pats v rovers afterwards up in tolka and there was way more atmosphere at the second game.

My mate always harks back to the one nil v brazil in 87. 20 odd thousand which he says is probably the core Irish fan base that will go if results go back to the way they were pre charlton. and thats the national team.

The Fai and government should be looking to help the clubs anyways they can. the sad thing is that delaney and our taoiseach probably thing more on the lines of Irishfan and stuttgart88(sorry your posts on this thread have been awful:( ) than any of the people who actually put their money were their mouth is and go and support football here.

[Stuttgart88]

Stuttgart as a dormant Rovers fan could we interest you in joining the SRFC Members Club? We have lots of english based members as well as from other European countries.

You know it makes sense as it's only £7 a week and it means you would be a part owner of the club.


KOH
I wouldn't rule it out. I got all nostalgic watching the FAI Cup semi final live on RTE's website!

[Stuttgart88]

there is no guarantee any Irish Franchise in whatever form would be successful.

Agree

(the sunderland thing was a disgrace)

Agree

stuttgart88(sorry your posts on this thread have been awful

Suggesting that change may just make the game better attended and more self-sustaining and able to keep our better players at home?

I don't know the answers and I'm happy to take on board the responses. As I said, I'm not saying I'm the oracle but I agree with what Marcotti wrote and think some application to Ireland makes sense in theory.

By the way, the eL team's improved standing in Europe has not gone unnoticed by me. Long may it continue. If the current steady improvement is all that it takes then so be it, a large slice of humble pie this way please. Maybe a combination of Bohs' windfall and a team actually making the UEFA Cup or CL group stages is all it'll take to kick things off a bit, but I can't change my lifelong conviction that football in Ireland is too localised and fragmented to have mass appeal.

[Real ale Madrid]

but the national team means something a lot more to me.

Ok Stuttgart. You have a passion for the national team.

Someone comes along in the morning and decides to scrap international football or better still only allows countries with populations of ten million or more participate in future international competition. His/Her justification for this move would be “well I know small countries like Ireland are not keen on this but hey they are not that numerous anyway”

Ridiculous isn’t it?

All this talk of provincial teams and Irish teams in the premiership is so much pie in the sky its not funny. Develop what we have and make it work. Don’t discard it for a few quid in the premiership. It will mean all the more after if we can be successful.

Football is a game first and a business second. Let the English clubs sell their souls if they want to. Lets develop and fund the game here so we can produce our own talent and not rely England or some pie-in-the-sky provincial set-up to do it for us.

[NY Hoop]

I wouldn't rule it out. I got all nostalgic watching the FAI Cup semi final live on RTE's website!

Good man. Email membership@shamrockrovers.ie for further info.

Thanks

[Stuttgart88]

Real Ale, I've never advocated anything like an Irish club in the premiership.

I'd just love to see Irish clubs or teams playing regularly at a standard that players with international aspirations are happy to play in and that Irish people are prepared to support in bigger numbers than they do already.

[Real ale Madrid]

I'd just love to see Irish clubs or teams playing regularly at a standard that players with international aspirations are happy to play in and that Irish people are prepared to support in bigger numbers than they do already.

Me too! Inventing another level of competition wont do that. Why cant everyone who claims to "love" the game get out and support an Irish team? We have seen improvements in the past 3/4 years in the league here why don't poeple row in behind that and give the game here the support it deserves - then your vision above will become a reality. We get 33,000 every international minimum at home. If 33,000 was the cumulative figure for attendances each week in the league - we would have a team or two in the champions league every year. anyway i'm going back over old ground now - i think you get what i'm saying

[Dazzy]

Sweden manage to keep the majority of their talent within their country until a good age, and you can see the success they've had as a result by qualifying for major tournaments on a consistent basis, and having clubs compete in the UEFA Cup group stages regularly.

They did good this year;)

You know how many people attended the Swedish Cup final recently? just over 3,000.

[galwayhoop]

Real Ale, I've never advocated anything like an Irish club in the premiership.



and i personally think that the idea is disgusting also.

however i think your original point has been lost on this thread - what i thought you were saying was the rugby model has actually proved successiful in it's own way so should the soccer people look at it as another option as the current set up is not self sustainable in the long run.

dublin city = folded
limerick = in dire straits
shels = cant even pay the tax man never mind their players.

we at least have to open our minds to other possibilities don't we - a lot of people on this forum refer to the GAA as bigoted and stubborn but their own 'absolutely no change stance' is reminisent of the 'no surrender' brigade up yonder never mind the GAA.

i am an eL suppporter - i attend my local club for all home games - it is plain to me that the public is not going to get behind the league in it's current guise so i accept that there needs to be a change of sorts - am i alone?

[bennocelt]

There aren't "dormant" fans out there, it's a myth. As Dodge and others have pointed out, Irish people will only watch winners and even then they get bored quickly.

Trying to appeal to the bandwagon, day-trippers is a Dublin Dons sized recipe for disaster. I've watched Leinster play in front of 4,000 and 40,000 in the last couple of years. Shels have played in front of similiar different sized crowds in the space of a week.

Bottom line is that eL fans are the only week-in-week-out fans in Ireland. We have, for want of a better phrase, an English attitude to supporting our teams - ie. we go all the time. And for that we get derision from barstoolers, bogballers and the media. How typically Irish is that?

KOH

i agree, all this fancyful notions of euroleagues, what a load of tripe
just look at the disaster that is the Uefa cup league system, its clearly overkill
we have a league that we should be proud of, but the irish public would rather support a british team over an irish team anyday of the week, and then they boo the england team!:rolleyes:
if there was a super dub team, i still think the sad saps would be travelling in their droves to old trafford etc every week
saw a tricolour in stamford bridge the other day, what a ****!

[cavan_fan]

There was an article in When Saturday Comes this month about how the UEFA cup is a more exciting competition than the Champions League at the moment (with viewing figures around Europe which arent that different).

All that's needed is for a few EL clubs to get into the UEFA group stages. This is within touching distance now and I cant help feeling that a few million pounds invested in a couple of clubs would get them there over the next 3/4 years. If Shelbourne were able to bring e.g. Graham Kavanagh in for a few seasons I think they (or Derry, Cork ...) could make it through.

I think this would kick start what would become a virtuous circle. We dont need a root and branch overhaul just as the League is beginning to turn the corner. What is true unfortunately is that if we are to have Irish clubs succeed at a European level then the ineviatbale consequence is a huge level of disparity between clubs in the League. The best case for Ireland is 2 teams competing in UEFA Cup Group stages/Champions League. I guess if you're a Sligo Rovers fan this doesnt sound a great prospect.

[NY Hoop]

They did good this year;)

You know how many people attended the Swedish Cup final recently? just over 3,000.

And that's with Henrik Larsson playing. However they are light years ahead of us off the field and their fans support their clubs unlike here. I love Sweden!

KOH

[NeilMcD]

Great thread so far, makes great reading and fair play to all that have posted as it has made fascinating and informative reading.

[Dazzy]

And that's with Henrik Larsson playing. However they are light years ahead of us off the field and their fans support their clubs unlike here. I love Sweden!

KOH

Their league attracts huge numbers of fans, some of them derbies look good. Pity IFK only had 3,000 out for a uefa cup tie.

[Stuttgart88]

All that's needed is for a few EL clubs to get into the UEFA group stages. This is within touching distance now and I cant help feeling that a few million pounds invested in a couple of clubs would get them there over the next 3/4 years. If Shelbourne were able to bring e.g. Graham Kavanagh in for a few seasons I think they (or Derry, Cork ...) could make it through.

I think this would kick start what would become a virtuous circle. We dont need a root and branch overhaul just as the League is beginning to turn the corner.
I think that's a fair point.

[pineapple stu]

I'd love the Eircom League to be successful, and well supported by the Irish people, but it simply isn't happening, and thus realistic (if radical) alternatives need to be looked at if football in the country is to improve.
Ah, the good aul chestnut. I'd love to support a successful eL, but won't be bothered doing anything to make it successful. It'll just have to get that way on its own.


the current set up is not self sustainable in the long run.

dublin city = folded
limerick = in dire straits
shels = cant even pay the tax man never mind their players.
Just because some clubs have incompentent and idiotic officials who are let run riot by a governing body who don't care doesn't mean that the league isn't sustainable. If it were run properly, it's quite possible it'd improve to sustainability. Let's fix the problems with the current format before proposing huge and radical changes which would only pi$$ off everyone currently involved in the game.