Champions League or Uefa

[joe_barry80]

I was talking to a derry City mate of mine before the fridays games if he would like a Champions League Qualifiers run or a direct place in the UEFA Cup group stages if they won the league.He choose the UEFA group stages. I know Irish teams have made big strides in both compitions in past years but which compition would you choose for the Winners of the eircom league? Should the club have choice of which one they would like to enter. I think money wise UEFA cup would be better.

[Dazzy]

I think money wise UEFA cup would be better.

:rolleyes:

[lofty9]

:rolleyes:

He's referring to direct entry to the group stages of the Uefa cup.

However, its an option that wouldn't take place due to the multitude of teams participating in Euro comps - there has to be qualification to get rid of the poorer teams, which unfortunately we still are rated as.

[BohsPartisan]

This is ludicrous. If our champions don't enter the Champions' league qualifiers it devalues our league.

[dcfcsteve]

If we assume that an Irish team will eventually make the group stages of a European competiton at some stage in the nest 5-10 years, and if we also assume that that is more likely to happen in the UEFA Cup - given the fact that the teams you are likely to face there are easier than in the CL (not that anyone told DCFC that this year ! :eek: ) - then bizarrely you could argue that it would actually be more beneficial for an Irish team to finish in a UEFA slot in a season than as Champions, on the basis that it increases their likelihood of group qualification.

The first Irish club to make it to the group stages of a European competition will have cracked open a pot of gold that should serve them well for the following few years. If only City had got Litecks Lovech instead of PSG for the First Round Proper this year, then we'd have had a genuine chance of Group stage progression.

Bizarrely as well - if we do get clubs appearing in the group stages more than once, then we may have to reverse the Summer League. It'd be daft to have a club playing in the top level of European competition weeks after our regular season has finished, as they'd be totally out of match shape.

All a few years away yet though...

[joe_barry80]

This is ludicrous. If our champions don't enter the Champions' league qualifiers it devalues our league.

It was just a thought, Maybe playing against 4 teams will raise the profile of the club who plays therefore bringing attention on the eircom league. Also It wouldn`t interfere with the summer league side of things the European fixtures are on a break when our league is on a break Dec- March . Russian teams and some of the Scandanavian teams are in the same boat.

[BohsPartisan]

Bizarrely as well - if we do get clubs appearing in the group stages more than once, then we may have to reverse the Summer League.

Not completely though. It might suffice to start the league in May or June at the latest.

[bluemovie]

F**k that! Anyone who stood out in the bitter cold in Drogheda last Friday won't want to go back to winter soccer. I shudder to remember what it was like in December and January.

[Schumi]

Bizarrely as well - if we do get clubs appearing in the group stages more than once, then we may have to reverse the Summer League. It'd be daft to have a club playing in the top level of European competition weeks after our regular season has finished, as they'd be totally out of match shape.Having encountered this situation in Championship Manager (:D), the European competitions have a break soon after the end of the league and only start back a few weeks before the next year's league.

[Gerrit]

I would go for UEFA Cup but that's mainly for personal reasons, I guess if you have a good draw the CL is financially more attractive. I boycot CL however, as I find it simply ridiculous to see a nr 4 team from England or Spain while actual champions of several countries are missing. IMHO the champions of Luxembourg have more rights to be in the Champions League than Liverpool or AC Milan. The CL should be champions only, full stop. How is UEFA thinking the gap between the G14 (or G16?) and the rest is going to be closed anytime, when always the same teams grab the Champions League millions? The CL is turning football into an elitist sport and should be boycotted by all pure football fans. Also, if one is not bored yet from the same teams and same games every year, I don't get it. Chelsea and Barca played each other so often now that the 'deja vu' feeling should even make the biggest gloryhunter fall asleep in front of his TV.

Financially I'd say Ireland would do best with a CL entry, but purely looking at my own opinion: the CL is a disgusting tournament and doesn't deserve any attention from Irish football fans. If Ireland never gets to close the gap with the rest of Europe, than look no further why. Luckily Platini is wanting to get the nr of CL slots per country down, FINALLY a voice of reason.

[dcfcsteve]

If Ireland never gets to close the gap with the rest of Europe, than look no further why.

Responsibility for lifting Ireland up the club rankings rests within Ireland.

We can't blame Liverpool for our standing in the rankings - just like we can't thank them either for our recent climb. We've managed to recently rise up the rankings without the current system changing, and I expect we will continue to rise again in the coming years. Which shows that closing the gap has zero to do with the structure of the tournaments, and is more about the quality of our league vis-a-vis other leagues.

[bigmac]

I was talking to a derry City mate of mine before the fridays games if he would like a Champions League Qualifiers run or a direct place in the UEFA Cup group stages if they won the league.He choose the UEFA group stages. I know Irish teams have made big strides in both compitions in past years but which compition would you choose for the Winners of the eircom league? Should the club have choice of which one they would like to enter. I think money wise UEFA cup would be better.

A bit of a moot point, seeing as how there are no direct entries to the group stages of the UEFA Cup.
An ideal situation would be where the champions go into the CL but if they get knocked out in the qualifying round for the group stages they can have a bash at the Uefa Cup and still get into the group stages there.

Oh wait a minute..... :rolleyes:

It's obviously going to be easier to get into UEFA group stages than CL but that option is available even to the team in the CL.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I am with Gerrit 100% on the CL and the meaninglessness of the name.

The UEFA Champions League, would if it applied to any other industry, be taken to court under the Trade Descriptions Act. How can coming 3rd or 4th in your domestic league make you a Champion?

Inviting former European Cup Champion clubs into the competition would have more merit. At least their names are on the ROll of Honour of having won the European Cup , at some point in their history. Has been Champions in a competition has more merit than never wases !

[mypost]

If only City had got Litecks Lovech instead of PSG for the First Round Proper this year, then we'd have had a genuine chance of Group stage progression.

PSG UEFA Cup Group watch:

PSG 2-4 Tel Aviv :eek:

What do Tel Aviv know, that Derry don't?


Bizarrely as well - if we do get clubs appearing in the group stages more than once, then we may have to reverse the Summer League.

:D :D

More ludicrous than bizarre.

[Dazzy]

PSG UEFA Cup Group watch:

PSG 2-4 Tel Aviv :eek:

What do Tel Aviv know, that Derry don't?

Im still wondering how they did it:eek:

[pete]

The Champions League is bar far best option financially. Its 100k for each qualifier you partake in plus 160k if don't make group stages. While disappointed to lose this year Cork City pocket 360k this season in prize money. The profile of CL games is much higher. Shels got 22k people for 3rd qualifying round.
City had hard enough draw so with easier draw might have made 3rd round add extra 100k plus Uefa 1st round game.

Uefa Cup has maybe 50k per round. Derry City would have pocketed 150k & Drogs 100k prize money this season. No Uefa Cup game would attract 22k like Shels had.

I don't dispute that team will make Uefa Group stages before CL but how much realistically would you make in tv money? Remember its only 2 home games & I don't think any massive gate receipts on offer. Maybe 500k maximum? Look at current Uefa groups & best for tv would be Newcastle, Fenerbahce, Palermo, Celta Vigo, Eintracht Frankfurt. Sky & BBC do not show Uefa Cup so no one would pay 250k for even Newcastle match.

[bawn79]

Slightly off-topic,
So if Derry beat St.Pats in the FAI Cup what happens to the UEFA Cup place, does it go to third place Cork in the league and does that then mean that Drogs go into the Inter-toto?

[Dodge]

This is ludicrous. If our champions don't enter the Champions' league qualifiers it devalues our league.
This used to happen btw, when pats won the league in 96, we played Slovan Bratislava in the UEFA Cup. Think it lasted about 3-4 years


Slightly off-topic,
So if Derry beat St.Pats in the FAI Cup what happens to the UEFA Cup place, does it go to third place Cork in the league and does that then mean that Drogs go into the Inter-toto?
Yes.

Champions league is far better financially, hence Ollie doing all he can to make sure Shels are there. He couldn't give a fiddlers about the league trophy, its the CL cash.

[ColinR]

Slightly off-topic,
So if Derry beat St.Pats in the FAI Cup what happens to the UEFA Cup place, does it go to third place Cork in the league and does that then mean that Drogs go into the Inter-toto?

yes, but have a look at the league table again

[Schumi]

Slightly off-topic,
So if Derry beat St.Pats in the FAI Cup what happens to the UEFA Cup place, does it go to third place Cork in the league and does that then mean that Drogs go into the Inter-toto?Drogheda finished third so switch them and Cork above and you have it.

[dcfcsteve]

The profile of CL games is much higher. Shels got 22k people for 3rd qualifying round.

No Uefa Cup game would attract 22k like Shels had.

You can't say that Pete. If Shels had been playing Deportivo in the First round proper of the UEFA Cup, after being on a good run, I doubt they would've got much less of a crowd. Likewsie, ahd they drawn a nobody team form Eastern Europe instead of Deportivo, they would probably have struggled to fill Tolka, let alone get 22k out.

It's the calibre of the opposition that is the primary motivation to the Irish sporting public, not the competition. Asa secondary point - the size of available stadia is also a big crowd-limiter for Euro gamesoutside of Dublin. If Shels played Man United or Roma in the Inter-Toto Cup, let alone the UEFA Cup, they'd get more than 22,000 at it. If Cork played them, they'd be stuck with the Turners Cross capacity.

Irish people want to watch big-name glamour football teams on their doorstep. Hence, they turn out in their thousands to watch second string sides in meaningless friendlies. The context in which they see those teams is therefore secondary to actually seeing them at all. Throw in a competitive element in the form of a European tournament, and in particular an Irish opposition on a good roll, and they would flock to see any big team regardless of the tournament. 22,000 is not the high water mark for a European crowd in Ireland.

[pete]

It's the calibre of the opposition that is the primary motivation to the Irish sporting public, not the competition..


Yes I agree there is an element of that - see out fairly poor tv figures for CL this year compared with Uefa Cup games last year. However our 1st qualifying attendance was bigger this year in time when our crowds were down.

Almost no big teams in the Inter-Toto so chances of big crowd slim.

TV money & prize money significantly bigger in CL. If Derry City had drawn PSG in any round of the Cl would have made a lot more tv money. I don't ye made much from uefa tv?

[DmanDmythDledge]

On the whole should teams that don't win their league be in it;

The European Cup is the number one club competition in the world and should have the best teams in it.

[David]

On the whole should teams that don't win their league be in it;

The European Cup is the number one club competition in the world and should have the best teams in it.

Then change the name. If they want to call it the Champions League then they should have just champions in it.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Then change the name. If they want to call it the Champions League then they should have just champions in it.
The proper name is the European Cup. They only use Champions League for marketing AFAIK.

[David]

The proper name is the European Cup. They only use Champions League for marketing AFAIK.

I thought it was officially changed to the European Champions League. Even UEFA's website refers to it as such.

[Dodge]

Proper name is UEFA Champions League

[Schumi]

I think the cup (as in the metal thing :)) is still called the European Cup.

[David]

I think the cup (as in the metal thing :)) is still called the European Cup.

They have just kept the same trophy but the name of the competition has changed.

[mypost]

The proper name is the European Cup. They only use Champions League for marketing AFAIK.

Ronan Seery used the same policy to rename his club. :cool:

Liverpool have only won the UEFA Champions League once, but were allowed to keep the trophy won last time, because behind all the PR and marketing, the competition is still the European Cup, which the club has won 5 times.


It's the calibre of the opposition that is the primary motivation to the Irish sporting public, not the competition

The same applies in domestic football, at least to Rovers. When we played Pats and Bohs in the glamour cup games this year, all the sleepers made sure they went to it. Yet they wouldn't go to our bread-and-butter games against Kildare, Kilkenny, Monaghan, etc. They were left for the hard-core fans instead. :o

[dancinpants]

When we played Pats and Bohs in the glamour cup games this year

OK, I'll grant you the word BIG, but glamour? Yer rippin the tights clean off it FFS. :rolleyes:

[mypost]

Yer rippin the tights clean off it FFS.

:confused:

Apparantly, your club have a glamour-walkover game on Sunday....against Pats of course! :o

[Jerry The Saint]

I thought this was a silly thread but recent events show that the UEFA Cup IS more important! :eek:

Otherwise Fenlon would have made sure Derry got into the Champions League next season :)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Jerry The Saint

His name is Pat Fenlon, not Niccolo Macchiavelli :D