View Full Version : Where to now?
geezer
19/11/2006, 7:33 PM
it was on waterford local radio that they have got the results already of their application to the new premier before everyone else and that they are in the premier next year regardless, wonder has it anything to do with the now ceo of the fai being from there and the former president of the fai. from utd point of view maybe another year is what we need in the 1st you couldnt fault the effort of the last half of the season. good news on the new stand front is that its nearly ready to go and will be better than the original plans,
next year hopefully we will canter the division. gutted today though
JC_GUFC
19/11/2006, 7:58 PM
I wouldn't be so pessimistic geezer. Only 50% of criteria are based on league tables and only 50% of that on this year. Had we won the playoff we'd have been ranked 11th this season as it is we'll be ranked 13th - I think it was only 20 points out of 1000.
Waterford were not in danger of going down anyway. Realistically it's between ourselves, Dundalk, Bray and UCD for 2 places in the Premier.
I'd be confident that we'll be ranked higher than Dundalk regardless if they win the playoff or not.
It's a pity we didn't get up on the pitch but we picked up 16 points more than last season and got as many points as Sligo did last season so it's hard to fault anyone.
about that "goal" that harps got earlier in the season to deny us all 3 points.we have been screwed by refs in recent times and it could end up costing us our place in the premier league.like that playoff final vrs drogs-if that goal had been allowed and we had won we would have went up.yes we would probably have come straight back down but we would have more "on the field" IAG points then we do now and might be over the line as reguards going up.also as i said that pi** poor decision by the ref at the harps game which cost us 2 points-this isnt me just moaning because these are facts that im pointing out.so as i said sooooooo frustrating if we dont go up because it was poor ref decisions that might cost us.i know every team gets decisions going against them but weve had 2 huge ones which could be so costly.
it is a pity about the rough start we had, the amount of games we ended up drawing instead of going looking for the killer goals..etc,etc,etc but the main thing is that we still only finished 3rd in the first division. Do we deserve to go up? IMO no. Would we be good enough in the premier next season wih our current squad? IMO no. As someone else said maybe one more year in the first, and win it outright this time wouldnt be all that bad?
geezer
19/11/2006, 11:09 PM
show me a league in europe that doesnt reward a team finishing 3rd with at least a play off spot in loads of cases outright promotion. anyone finishing 3rd in my opinion in a marathon like we have been thru is essential in a successful league. the fai/league policy of trying to protect a core group of clubs from being demoted has not worked in the past and wont work in the new fancy league. a fluid system of promotion and relegation is good for crowds and good enough for all the other leagues in europe.
The scottish league would be one of the top of my head, along with the north, wales, .... and Im sure there is plenty more leagues that are playing at our level of football too, as there is no point in comparing our league to the ones in the larger countries as they have a huge amount of teams playing in them.
GUISAUltra
20/11/2006, 10:20 AM
the biggest question for us now, is can we keep the majority of the team that we have now. if we can keep the main nucleus of the team and sign conor gethins properly i could easily see us beating our points total this year and wining the league. to sign conor gethins permanently and keep tony cousins have to be our main priorities.
The clubs almost unanimously agreed for the new set-up and they all knew that it was 50-50 on- and off-field after that. Off the pitch is exceptionally important and we've effectively led the way in this regard in recent seasons - in the entire league. We're doing a small bit now for a long-term future, rather than a lot now for a short-term future. We deserve our place in the new league accordingly.
GUISAUltra
20/11/2006, 12:32 PM
i dunno about the new league now. saturday everyone was buzzing with the hope that we were going up but now with dundalk getting the 3 points and secod place, i dont think we deserve to go up
Because it's based 50-50 on off-the-field and on-the-field criteria, and because the clubs agreed that this would be the case, we deserve our place in the new league (it's not a case therefore of 'going up' in my view).
Dundalk know they are not going up as there four year record has them in 15th place and they have still some financial and infrastructure problems to sort out .
Conor H
20/11/2006, 1:39 PM
Agree but who'll be shafted for us?it's a toss up between UCD and Bray.For the league to move forward it can't have 6 teams from Dublin.4,5 top is adaquete.However UCD will go ape **** if they're removed.I'd say Bray would be more likely to get the chop really but technically they're not from Dublin.....even though we all know they're just as good as.I don't like the way Wahurford are so **** sure of themselves.Why do they know they're in it and nobody else does?
I reckon the FAI will keep the eleven Premier clubs already in place and add Rovers into the mix and that will be that. Really only Rovers have a right to say that they deserve to be in the Premier next year, and only Dundalk can have a grievence with this year's set up given that in years past their playoff with Waterford would have decided if they got up or not.
I think Rovers winning the league has given the FAI a get out clause of the shamble they created this year regarding promotion and relelgation. I thought all along that the FAI would prmote two teams max, and that Rovers would be promoted next year regardless of where they finished, and also that the FAI would have promoted Galway/Dundalk had they won the league, but only if they won the league. Since neither did I think ye'll be still in the First Division come next season, and to be honest any football fan on here would agree have to agree that a team finishing third doesn't deserve to be promoted on the basis of Galway being a bigger place than Bray
i wonder would dundalks plastic pitch have any affect on the basis on if they should go up or not???id say we have a slight chance of been picked :cool: :cool:
Jebus and others:its not just based on this seasons placings in the leagues,its 50% on the placings over the last few seasons,not just the one just finished.its a unique situation this season and normally third wouldnt be good enough.so please try and remember that its not just this seasons results that count because this seasons are just added together with the last 4,ok???????
Fellow g.u fans:so according to the offical site we are outside the top 12 for on the field stuff but surely we are well inside it for off-the-field and that will more then make up for the on-the-field points total,yes???
Patrick Dunne
20/11/2006, 7:15 PM
If it was solely down to the IAG, I would be confident that GUFC will be
in the top flight next season. However, in reality the FAI will pick the clubs,
which means whatever top twelve is politically expedient at the time will be selected.
Tir Oilean
20/11/2006, 8:53 PM
If we go up on the criteria then we deservse it full stop I'm sick of of the attitude we dont deserve it if we don't do it on the pitch. It was agreed by all the clubs to live by the sword die by the sword so to speak. So take the decision on the chin. Its a popular thought that we'll attract more people winning in 1st division than losin in the premier. I think this is true but also think we'd have the ability to attract the players to stay up there too!
If we go up on the criteria then we deservse it full stop I'm sick of of the attitude we dont deserve it if we don't do it on the pitch.
:eek: This is why the Eircom League is a joke, someone said earlier that it's a joke that a team that finished third doesn't qualify for a play-off (this stupid statement has been dealt with by Terry I believe) but any league that puts teams up on whether or not they could be a big club is a joke in my opinion. By that statement Wigan, Blackburn, Reading, and Sheff Utd would be chucked out of the English Premiership in favour of Leeds, Birmingham, Sheff Wed and Notts Forest for no reason other than they are bigger clubs. And we wonder why non Eircom League fans think we are a pack of jokers? Truth is Galway finished outside of the top two and so do not deserve to go up, end of story
Conor H
21/11/2006, 8:45 AM
:eek: This is why the Eircom League is a joke, someone said earlier that it's a joke that a team that finished third doesn't qualify for a play-off (this stupid statement has been dealt with by Terry I believe) but any league that puts teams up on whether or not they could be a big club is a joke in my opinion. By that statement Wigan, Blackburn, Reading, and Sheff Utd would be chucked out of the English Premiership in favour of Leeds, Birmingham, Sheff Wed and Notts Forest for no reason other than they are bigger clubs. And we wonder why non Eircom League fans think we are a pack of jokers? Truth is Galway finished outside of the top two and so do not deserve to go up, end of story
Why is that the truth?50% is for the off the field criteria.What i don't get is why people keep saying yee finished 3rd therefore yee don't deserve to go up.Any other year-yes.BUT it operates differently this year Jebus as you well know so don't come on here saying we don't deserve to go up.If we go up we won't make any apologies to anyone especially considering we'll probably get awarded an A license and half the premier clubs will fail.Also our squad is just as good as Rovers and we would definitely add a few players to compete strongly next year.
I understand where jebus is coming from, put as ConorH is saying this year means nothing about where we or anybody else for that matter finishes because of this screwed up system in place by the FAI.
We could have finished last in the first, but going on the points system we would still have a chance of going up. I know its not right but that is how its going to be and we have to live with it.
scotsbeer
21/11/2006, 10:29 AM
11th december is the date for decision time. any idea if its being announced through press conference or are clubs being informed first ?
gufct
21/11/2006, 12:57 PM
clubs get informed on the 11th and its all announced on the 12th
GUISAUltra
21/11/2006, 1:01 PM
so we'll get it on 11th or someone might leak it here a bit earlier
Tir Oilean
21/11/2006, 2:09 PM
Any truth about thev rumour that Waterford know they are staying up.?
Conor H
21/11/2006, 2:44 PM
Any truth about thev rumour that Waterford know they are staying up.?
Ya tis very interesting how Waterford know they'll be in it next year.
I wonder will the receiving of licenses 1st time around have any impact on the FAI's decision?
Tir/ they are only going on what a board member announced on the radio, saying that there IAG meeting went well and they have it rapped up. All just speculation, and no real confirmation yet.
All we can really hope for is that its done correctly to the targets they set and that the FAI release the data openly on how everyone gained/lost points in each catergory, and how they came to the totals for each club individually.
The bottom line, I reiterate, is that the clubs all-but unanimously voted for this, so there's no point moaning about it now.
Tir Oilean
21/11/2006, 2:56 PM
Sure if its down to confidence/speculation every club will expect to go up:D
hand,i also still believe certain individuals know already about certain clubs being up and who isnt but are sworn to secrecy.they have moved the date back twice already from the 8th and now its the 12th,i wouldnt be surprised if theres another delay before its offically announced,but as i said i think the dogs on street might know before that.
there has to be full transparency in the results though as terry said,they need to clearly show where teams failed etc,no half as*ed stuff as per usual FAI form.
Tir Oilean
21/11/2006, 4:01 PM
the thing is the IAG is only a body that is making reccommendations to the FAI who will then make their decision (Pa Dunne said this elsewhere). It's unlikely that there will be a full publication of any results of the assessment groups findings if the FAI don't take the IAGs reccommendations. Really the results should be published to avoid any conspiracy theories evolving after the 12th (no doubt this would cause huge consternation throughout the league and in the press). I don't mind if we don't go up as long as we can clearly see where we lost out and I think all the other teams/supporters would agree with me.
The bottom line, I reiterate, is that the clubs all-but unanimously voted for this, so there's no point moaning about it now.
Well I've been moaning about this all season, so I don't see why I should stop now! :) Back to the club vote, I thought that this farce that the FAI has landed us with should only have been passed if it had had been unanimously voted in, the fact that it wasn't shows that some clubs are aware that they could possibly get shafted in this, and honestly I think it's a disgrace that a lot of Galway fans, Dundalk fans and Limerick fans (when we were in contention to finish top 3, all those months ago :( ) didn't care or have a problem with displacing a team like UCD in a meeting, rather than on the football field.
And we wonder why a lot of the 'barstool monkeys' in Ireland look at the Eircom League and sneer :rolleyes:
Jebus its happening all over europe where Teams are being relegated over Financial and licensing matters its called getting your house in order. Three years ago we embarked on getting ours in order and if we do get into the PreMier League it will be down to the hard work and sweat of everybody at GUFC.
Jebus its happening all over europe where Teams are being relegated over Financial and licensing matters its called getting your house in order. Three years ago we embarked on getting ours in order and if we do get into the PreMier League it will be down to the hard work and sweat of everybody at GUFC.
Well everyone bar the players that is :D
DmanDmythDledge
22/11/2006, 2:40 PM
Jebus its happening all over europe where Teams are being relegated over Financial and licensing matters its called getting your house in order. Three years ago we embarked on getting ours in order and if we do get into the PreMier League it will be down to the hard work and sweat of everybody at GUFC.
I think the point he was making is that if Galway would be replacing a team like UCD, who also have their house in order.
fans is another one of the criteria so we have UCD beat on that one even though they are from dublin(there was 223 ppl at a UCD home game recently).another reason we have them beat is because they dont want as many dublin teams in the league for a better geographical spread and so we beat them there too.i always thought UCD shouldnt have been in the top flight anyway,and their hurling and football teams not allowed into the dublin championships too.they get some of the cream of their sports coming to their college on scholarships etc and so have an unfair advantage.but this thread isnt about that so lets leave it.
DmanDmythDledge
22/11/2006, 9:49 PM
fans is another one of the criteria so we have UCD beat on that one even though they are from dublin(there was 223 ppl at a UCD home game recently).another reason we have them beat is because they dont want as many dublin teams in the league for a better geographical spread and so we beat them there too.
That's true, but it only makes up 10% of the overall criteria.
Patrick Dunne
22/11/2006, 10:32 PM
We had around 223 at home games against Kildare and Kilkenny.
Poor Student
23/11/2006, 10:46 AM
and their hurling and football teams not allowed into the dublin championships too.
Oh, so UCD didn't just win the Dublin GAA Championship a few weeks ago?
they get some of the cream of their sports coming to their college on scholarships etc
So? Waterford, Bohs and Cork all have scholarship schemes with local educational institutes.
Terry
23/11/2006, 11:27 AM
If we had any sense we would set up a scolarship scheme with NUIG, sorry but UCD have been a great addition to the league for much longer than ourselves. The talent they have brought into the league for decades now is second to none.
corbyeire
23/11/2006, 12:46 PM
Oh, so UCD didn't just win the Dublin GAA Championship a few weeks ago?
think eamo was saying they shouldnt be included in the championships - read it again :ball:
corbyeire
23/11/2006, 12:50 PM
sure they bring talent into the league - but they eventuallly go elsewhere
the club has no potential for support where it is based in the southside - and the students have absolutely no interest
of coarse it has potential how many students go to college there, every club has potential , it just a matter of being able to get them through the turnstiles
Curler
23/11/2006, 1:20 PM
Galway United does have scholarships with NUI Galway
Conor H
23/11/2006, 1:27 PM
Terry's right UCD do have potential.There's over 15000 at least in the College so they could quite easily justify that as potential.Realistically we all know they'll always have low crowds and will always be a solid mid table side.But eliminating them from the premier would be very hard for the FAI to justify.Out of all the criteria the only one where they'll score really low in is attendances/geographical spread.
If the FAI were allowed to just cherry pick teams i have no doubt we'd be included.But they have vowed to show transperancy thus making it impossible for them to demote UCD IMO.Then again Waterford have been assured of their place and by all accounts they're pretty much in the same boat as us.
We'd be even on Geographical spread.But we're definitely better on
-strategic planning
-Marketibility
-Finance
-Attendances
The only thing they'd be better is on the field....and not by much.they've had 2 poor seasons in a row now.So when all is taken into account we'd be much of a muchness really.I think it's the same scenario with Bray aswell really.IMO Bray are the team who'll make way if any.
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic though.We all know we'd be an excellent addition to the premier but we're not the only club who thinks that.
corbyeire
23/11/2006, 1:27 PM
i have to say i disagree with you terry - have been to university there and attended games - no atmosphere - its in the middle of the rugby heartland - and as far as i can see it the students there are feeling less and less affiliation with ucd as they tend to commute there from further and further away - instead of living close by and having any sense of community etc. with the campus and hence the team
you are right in saying potential - but in my time the place has gotten worse and gone in the other direction
corbyeire
23/11/2006, 1:30 PM
the campus has over 20000 going through it a day on most estimates - with the increase in student attendance etc. - there has been no reflection on game attendence - im telling you the logic doesnt work
students are spending less and less time in belfield
UCD never had any potential to increase their supporter base.Ive been attending LOI games since 1973 and ive never seen any more than a few hundred at most a 1,000 at most games ive attended there.
Conor H
23/11/2006, 1:41 PM
UCD never had any potential to increase their supporter base.Ive been attending LOI games since 1973 and ive never seen any more than a few hundred at most a 1,000 at most games ive attended there.
AFAIK they didn't even get a 1000 for the league Cup Final last year but i'm open to correction from Stu.
We all know they'll never get big crowds but that's only 10% of the Criteria.
DmanDmythDledge
23/11/2006, 2:57 PM
the club has no potential for support where it is based in the southside - and the students have absolutely no interest
South Dublin is one of the most densely populated areas in the country. There is a lot of potential. However the problem is that if the club doesn't do more along the marketing lines attendences will never increase as it is a rugby heartland.
of coarse it has potential how many students go to college there, every club has potential , it just a matter of being able to get them through the turnstiles
In theory there should be a number of students going to our games but they just aren't. The main problem is that the Eircom League has a bad footballing image in the country and whatever students who would have an interest in the Eircom League would already support one of the bigger clubs in Dublin.
Another problem with a potential student fanbase is that most people would leave college after 3/4 years, so the fanbase would be ever changing, even if students were attracted by what is on offer.
AFAIK they didn't even get a 1000 for the league Cup Final last year but i'm open to correction from Stu.
We all know they'll never get big crowds but that's only 10% of the Criteria.
There was 2,000 at the League Cup final.
IMO we will never get big crowds as it stands at the moment. The club doesn't really do that much to improve crowds AFAIK. The fact that the club is situated in a rugby heartland can't be used as an excuse for the low crowds. Galway are able to get crowds more than double what UCD get and they attract crowds from the same area as Connaught rugby (albeit Leinster are a more attractive proposition than Connaught).
I dont think its stu you need to convince it was Terry who said they had scope to improve their crowds. UCD will also struggle getting scholarship Players in as Galway,Cork and Waterford all have schemes going and there maybe more I dont know about.
I was actually at the cup replay in 1984 and there were more neutrals there hoping rovers would lose than UCD Fans and its only in the last few years their loyal Kop (all 10 of them) have beeb going.
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