Play-offs

[Gaillimh Al]

Just wondering, why the mad rush to get the play off over and done with. It's very unfair on the Division 1 teams who first of all have a day less to recover, and Waterford can rest half their players anyway tonight. Could it not have been arranged for next friday and then the following week.
I understand it doesn't guarantee promotion or relegation to the Invitationship, but a good result for either Galway or Dundalk could make a big difference.

[Conor H]

Well licenses will be handed out very soon and the league need to make their final decision on who'll be in the Top 12.
It's been like this ever year and it didn't do much harm to UTD a few years back when we were defeated by Alan Kelly in the playoff final against Drogheda.
Lets concentrate on getting their....if we do the meaningless playoff will take care of itself.

[GalwayFrancis]

we were defeated by Alan Kelly in the playoff final against Drogheda.
will never forget that day. i wonder how much Kelly got in that brown envelope?

[holidaysong]

The playoff is a joke. Mickey Mouse match. What will the media call it as it isn't even a Promotion-Relegation Playoff?

[BobtheDrog]

if it's any consolation i don't think he's given a decision our way since:o

[Mental Man]

Have to agree with what Holidaysong said there, the playoff is indeed a joke,no matter who wins or loses the playoffs its still down to the last 5 years performances on/off field and future too.
Our own committee will be on local radio this morning on Terrace Talk saying the very same thats its a waste of club expenses but also saying tha they have been given the word that we will be playing Premiere football next year as they meet all the criteria laid down by the IAG.
Bloody waste for us to be going to Oriel park on tuesday night and for the lads from Dundalk to come down on saturday next also, but hey its the FAI/EL were talking about here.:rolleyes:

[Redzer]

[QUOTE=Our own committee will be on local radio this morning on Terrace Talk saying the very same thats its a waste of club expenses but also saying tha they have been given the word that we will be playing Premiere football next year as they meet all the criteria laid down by the IAG.[/QUOTE]

If that is true, then Dundalk or Galway havn't a snowballs chance in hell getting into the Premier Div. Double waste of time and money on their behalf.
Whats the point of playing at all? I cant see any half decent crowds bothering to show.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Will the play off actually count at all at the end of the process? With this new FAI Uberleague being set up if the winners fails the 5 year record test then they are in Division 1 next season more than likely!

p.s. I heard the entire Dundalk Squad have holidays booked :D

[JC_GUFC]

The playoff will decide who is ranked 12th and 13th in the league this season if I've understood things correctly, with Rovers being ranked 11th.

Waterford may be safe but are Bray and UCD? The extra place could make a difference to Galway or Dundalk.

[CollegeTillIDie]

If finishing 6th in the League can get you relegated then the whole process is going to end up in Court!

[Partizan]

Jim O'Neill, a spokesperson for Waterford United was just on WLR FM and stated categorically that according to the Management Committee, the Club scored highly in finance, marketability and infrastructure and therefore will be playing in the new Premier Division next season.

It was also revealed that the plans for the new 1680 seater stand are at an advanced stage.

So there you go folks, who gets the drop? and btw it wont be us. :D

[Neish]

when we were defeated by Alan Kelly in the playoff final against Drogheda.

He also played a big part in Harps defeat by Derry in the Playoff game in the brandywell (2003 if memory serves)

[Raheny Red]

The playoff is a joke. Mickey Mouse match. What will the media call it as it isn't even a Promotion-Relegation Playoff?

And the first leg on a Tuesday.............:rolleyes:

[Mental Man]

Yep , also heard Jim O'Neill on WLR, so it looks as if either Bray or UCD will get the drop and rovers and maybe another 1st division team will come up.
When the new stand is up on the other side of the ground it will make for right sound effect,maybe they will put the away support over there?

[DmanDmythDledge]

If finishing 6th in the League can get you relegated then the whole process is going to end up in Court!
If the criteria announced is applied properly, which you have to assume it will be, then UCD will have no problem staying up.

Jim O'Neill, a spokesperson for Waterford United was just on WLR FM and stated categorically that according to the Management Committee, the Club scored highly in finance, marketability and infrastructure and therefore will be playing in the new Premier Division next season.
So basically the FAI have already worked out the criteria and know who is going to be in the league. I wish they would just tell us now rather than making us wait!

Yep , also heard Jim O'Neill on WLR, so it looks as if either Bray or UCD will get the drop and rovers and maybe another 1st division team will come up.
What was he saying exactly?

[Schumi]

Yep , also heard Jim O'Neill on WLR, so it looks as if either Bray or UCD will get the drop and rovers and maybe another 1st division team will come up.So an 11 or 12 team premier?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Schumi

There was supposed to be a 12 team premier in Year 1 of the Uberleague with 3 down and 1 up at the end of 2007 as far as I can recall and a 10 team Premier in 2008 and onwards from that. 4 times playing the same team in the League, does not work, it bored me rigid in 2003!

[ndrog]

will never forget that day. i wonder how much Kelly got in that brown envelope?

most exciting game of football i have ever witnessed .What a night :)

[Mental Man]

I went up to Buckley park last night to see at the time what Galway were like (just in case we did meet them) against Kilkenny City and OMG the scoreline dont tell the true story as to how bad Galway were and worse how really bad Kilkenny were/are.
They made Galway look good to be honest, i left about 10 mins before full time i got so bored and to be honest if Galway did ever make it up to the Premiere division they would have to do a complete clearout of the team.
There is a big difference in the 1st division and the premiere teams so for any team to come up they would have to splash the cash !!

[JC_GUFC]

I went up to Buckley park last night to see at the time what Galway were like (just in case we did meet them) against Kilkenny City and OMG the scoreline dont tell the true story as to how bad Galway were and worse how really bad Kilkenny were/are.
They made Galway look good to be honest, i left about 10 mins before full time i got so bored and to be honest if Galway did ever make it up to the Premiere division they would have to do a complete clearout of the team.
There is a big difference in the 1st division and the premiere teams so for any team to come up they would have to splash the cash !!

Kilkenny were probably the worst team I've ever seen - we really could have hit double figures. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that Galway were terrible on a completely one-sided game. Still we're not in the playoff but will hopefully get to meet you next season! ;)

[Mental Man]

In all fairness and i aint being dis-respectfull by any means, i went up as a neutral and also with another blues supporter (my Cousin) and he even said the very same thing.
Kilkenny went through ye several times during the game, they had 1 guy in particular before got sent off for lashing out cos that guy with the shaved heard would make Georgie O'Callaghan look like an altar boy, what a cheat, he tried to get the guy sent off several times and he finally succeeded and 1 of your own supporters sitting next to me in the old stand even said the same, anyway this guy who plays for the cats wasnt a bad player at all, probably the best they have and he went through ye no problem.
And yes i still think Kilkenny made ye look good, no dis-respect !

[Paddyfield]

And yes i still think Kilkenny made ye look good, no dis-respect !

Mind you, ten Premier Divison teams made Waterford look bad, no disrespect. :rolleyes:

[mypost]

Is the Waterford-Dundalk friendly the most meaningless play-off ever?

Everyone knows that the places are already decided by now, and come what may, both teams will stay where they are next season, based purely on location criteria alone.

[Mental Man]

I am well aware of the Blues performances this year , i was at most of the away games and all the home games.
Well if Mike Kerley ever comes looking for a job at GUFC then run a mile, though he does a great impression of a statue on the sideline and thats his best point :D .
Though since Gareth Cronin came in he really has shaken the whole thing up and were all looking forward to Premiere Footie next year and yes realistically the play-offs are meaningless because due to Dundalks and Galways past few years laugishing in the Lower half of the 1st division they havent a snowballs chance of coming up if any of them had won the play-offs .

[Conor H]

Mental Man i wonder did the maroon smoke blind you for the whole game?
We hammered them.they're goal was pretty nmuch an own goal.
I'd be fairly confident Dundalk will beat yee over the 2 legs because from what i've seen of yee this year on telly ye're abysmal.

[Dodge]

Jim O'Neill, a spokesperson for Waterford United was just on WLR FM and stated categorically that according to the Management Committee, the Club scored highly in finance, marketability and infrastructure and therefore will be playing in the new Premier Division next season.

Funny how they're the only club that have been told the results...

[LFC in Exile]

If the criteria announced is applied properly, which you have to assume it will be, then UCD will have no problem staying up.

Apart from the attendance/potential marketability criteria of course.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Apart from the attendance/potential marketability criteria of course.
Which is less than 10%.

[Mental Man]

To be honest i cant see dundalk beating us, for once we have a full team for the coming games, cawley, Ger McCarthy, rennie etc.. are all back from suspensions etc.. since Gareth Cronin brought in Hedderman,keely at the back things have improved big time, with Kenny Browne and John Hayes also with them its a fairly good back 4.
I know ye hammered Kilkenny city,sure jaysus any team would hammer them they are that bad, i dont even know how they are left in the league, the toilet facilities are disgusting to say the least,they have no fan base and all they have going for them is the ground which aint bad at all, but thats it for them,if there is a 3rd tier i can see them dropping to it unless Jim Rhatigan gets his finger out of his behind and stops treating the club like his own personal play thing,cos the club is going NO-WHERE !
Shame cos we like playing them in the cup or pre-season friendlies cos the banter is good between the fans !

[Duffman]

Whats the point of playing at all? I cant see any half decent crowds bothering to show.


You may be surprised then. Dundalk have brought 400 fans to the last several away games. Home crowds in excess of 2500 several times towards the latter end of the season too. Talking to people last night after the mudbath in Donegal, I reckon we will have something similar on Saturday night in the RSC. Whatever about getting or not getting into the superduperleague all Dundalk can do is go and win the 2 legs. Anything else is out of their hands at this stage. I do find it interesting that Waterford are guaranteed top flight football next season.

[Mental Man]

The reason why were in the premiere division next year is that we meet all the criteria laid down by the IAG with regards to tax, infrastructure, future developement,fan base, the last 5 years performances since we came up in 2003 and our marketability, believe it or not we had sponsors for all our players for last year and already there is more businesses now this year for next season looking to sponsor games and players so the lads running the club are doing a fantastic job in promoting the club and that all went towards our CV u could say when we met the IAG.
Where as and i aint being smart what have Dundalk donoe in the last 5 years to promote themselves for the premiere division though i do know ye are doing a great job on the ground up there but its more than that that is needed?

[Conor H]

the toilet facilities are disgusting to say the least,they have no fan base and all they have going for them is the ground which aint bad at all, but thats it for them,if there is a 3rd tier i can see them dropping to it Shame cos we like playing them in the cup or pre-season friendlies cos the banter is good between the fans !

Amm......:confused:

[stann]

Schumi

There was supposed to be a 12 team premier in Year 1 of the Uberleague with 3 down and 1 up at the end of 2007 as far as I can recall and a 10 team Premier in 2008 and onwards from that. 4 times playing the same team in the League, does not work, it bored me rigid in 2003!

I thought I heard somewhere that it would be 2 up 2 down in the first year of the Superduperleague, and that we'd lose one team in each of the next two seasons, ending up with 10 in 2010.
Mind you, I thought I read somewhere too that the teams this season would be ranked according to where they finished, but somehow a rather pointless play-off seems to have hove into view a few months ago, so apparently I didn't.
Agree about the 4 times playing each other thingy, just dull.

[Poor Student]

Jim O'Neill, a spokesperson for Waterford United was just on WLR FM and stated categorically that according to the Management Committee, the Club scored highly in finance, marketability and infrastructure and therefore will be playing in the new Premier Division next season.

That sounds pretty dodgy. As far as I know UCD's committee haven't received such forward information. So either Waterford are lying (which I don't think) or something is up.

[Mr_T]

That sounds pretty dodgy. As far as I know UCD's committee haven't received such forward information. So either Waterford are lying (which I don't think) or something is up.


Exactly, regardless of whether Waterford actually did do well, or are well run in terms of their sponsorship, if one club above all the others has been told their scores from the IAG process and that they will definately be in the Premier its a scandal. Not only is it making a mockery of the process, but they also know several weeks before their competitors (such as Galway, Dundalk or Bray) where they'll be playing next year and can better plan accordingly.

On paper the IAG process looks reasonably fair and the criteria and balanced, but all this talk of clubs having been told this or garaunteed that are very worrying and make it look like the fancy presentations in the Airport Great Southern were a front to the usual shady handshakes and "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your's" shenannigans the FAI are sadly renowned for over the years.

[Poor Student]

On paper the IAG process looks reasonably fair and the criteria and balanced

That may be so, but people have forgetten to ask the question "Why does this process even exist?". There's no logical reason why we have to suddenly decide to reshuffle the clubs on the basis of all this criteria because the FAI and the eL have merged. It makes no sense.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Mind you, I thought I read somewhere too that the teams this season would be ranked according to where they finished, but somehow a rather pointless play-off seems to have hove into view a few months ago, so apparently I didn't.
The playoff didn't hove into view. It happens every year and it was said in the new proposals that it would be taking place as usual.

On paper the IAG process looks reasonably fair and the criteria and balanced, but all this talk of clubs having been told this or garaunteed that are very worrying and make it look like the fancy presentations in the Airport Great Southern were a front to the usual shady handshakes and "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your's" shenannigans the FAI are sadly renowned for over the years.
This has happened already this year, regarding voting for the proposals.

[Mr_T]

That may be so, but people have forgetten to ask the question "Why does this process even exist?". There's no logical reason why we have to suddenly decide to reshuffle the clubs on the basis of all this criteria because the FAI and the eL have merged. It makes no sense.

I don't disagree. But as I've said before, if you set aside your views on the reasons for the process, I saw not a lot wrong with the assessment criteria. Under those criteria as stated above, UCD should have little to worry about. However if theres a series of strange, unexplained surprises in the final outcome.........??


This has happened already this year, regarding voting for the proposals.

That was more a case voting at gunpoint rather than for favours or political gain.

[DmanDmythDledge]

That was more a case voting at gunpoint rather than for favours or political gain.
I don't want to go into too much detail but I believe that certain clubs were told to vote yes or they wouldn't get such and such a thing that they would have been fully entitled, and would have gotten, any other year.

[stann]

The playoff didn't hove into view. It happens every year and it was said in the new proposals that it would be taking place as usual.

I know there's a play-off every year, thanks for that, but as regards this season's proposals I didn't see that said. As you're being so snippy about it perhaps you can enlighten me, then, as to why it would be deemed necessary to have a play-off if the 2nd last placed team in the Premier was going to be ranked 13th and the 2nd placed in the First ranked 12th anyway? Even the FAI are not that stupid, surely? What does it achieve? And what have Dundalk to gain? They can only slip a place or stay still at best, Waterford can only improve or stay still at worst.

[DmanDmythDledge]

I know there's a play-off every year, thanks for that, but as regards this season's proposals I didn't see that said. As you're being so snippy about it perhaps you can enlighten me, then, as to why it would be deemed necessary to have a play-off if the 2nd last placed team in the Premier was going to be ranked 13th and the 2nd placed in the First ranked 12th anyway? Even the FAI are not that stupid, surely? What does it achieve? And what have Dundalk to gain? They can only slip a place or stay still at best, Waterford can only improve or stay still at worst.
Sorry for being snippy but I'm just sick of people going on about how they suddenly noticed the playoff even though it was part of the original proposals.

The only reason that I can think of for the playoff is that it is written into the league rules that it has to happen every year or that the league wants this year to be just like every other year, before the FAI come in and devalue the playoff game.

[stann]

That sounds pretty dodgy. As far as I know UCD's committee haven't received such forward information. So either Waterford are lying (which I don't think) or something is up.

There's nothing up. There has been no official confirmation of Waterford's status, just an official of the club expressing an opinion on a local radio station, which he's perfectly entitled to do. The fact he came across as so confident of our status should not be taken to mean we've been tipped off, by Delaney or anyone else, it just comes from a fairly bullish assessment of our chances, which are more than excellent.
Don't blow this up into a conspiracy, the FAI haven't the ability to conduct a conspiracy for one thing.
And some of you UCD lads, would you mind laying off us a bit? If ye don't get invited in, and I can't see ye not being there now anyway, it won't be our fault, you'll be losing out to Galway or Dundalk. Ease off on the evols a bit, or direct some at them for a while, thanks! :)

[stann]

Sorry for being snippy but I'm just sick of people going on about how they suddenly noticed the playoff even though it was part of the original proposals.

OK, well as I say I never read that, probably when I read about the ranking system I naively though that having the teams all nicely and neatly ranked in order was going to be enough. :o :D

[Duffman]

The reason why were in the premiere division next year is that we meet all the criteria laid down by the IAG with regards to tax, infrastructure, future developement,fan base, the last 5 years performances since we came up in 2003
Thats all well and good and I don't doubt that Waterford deserve to be in it its the knowing in advance of everyone else that I question.

[CollegeTillIDie]

If it is actually based on results over past five years, Dundalk haven't a prayer!

[Mental Man]

Also heard today from a club statement on WLR that we are ranked 9th in the points table for access to next years premiere division, so happy days !!:D

And CTiD is right a lot of it is based on the last 5 years performances and we score good on that and as i said earlier on previous posts money, tax, infrastructure and future direction the club is taking also comes into the equation and dundalks performances have been dire up to this season.

[holidaysong]

I can't remember from previous years but do the winners of the playoff get presented with a shield or something?

[Niall]

I can't remember from previous years but do the winners of the playoff get presented with a shield or something?

REcall holding a cheap cup in a pub across road from Tower Hoel in Waterford after paul power scored against Bray in the last minute in late 80's first division showdown in Kilcohen park. Johneey Mathews was manager at time. Don't remember a shield though.
Any other Blues fans remember that game or am I way off the mark here?