Another Scottish born player declares for us

[eirebhoy]

Scots miss out on Accies kid (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/sport/6029677.html)

HAMILTON ACCIES wonderkid Jamie McCarthy is ready to copy Celtic's Aiden McGeady - and snub Scotland for the Republic of Ireland.

The 15-year-old made his debut for Accies in their 2-1 derby defeat of Airdrie on Saturday where he was watched by Sean McCaffrey, manager of the Republic's Under-17s.

And McCaffrey is ready to hand McCarthy - who has already been watched by Barcelona - his first cap for the Republic in Dublin against Italy on January 19.

McCarthy qualifies for the green of Ireland through his grandfather.

McCaffrey said: "I don't need a second look to know that he will be Eire's gain and Scotland's loss.

"It is a major plus that his grandfather Paddy Coyle was a Donegal man and had such a big influence on Jamie.

"I saw Roy Keane at a similar age and I know what a talent Jamie has. We will be delighted to integrate him in the Under-17 side."

Accies' boss Billy Reid is delighted his star youngster has gained international recognition - but laments the fact Scotland will miss out on another outstanding home-grown talent

He groaned: "I am so sad Scotland have missed out on Jamie. It happened to me when I was at Clyde and I gave Craig Bryson his debut at 16 and he never got a sniff of an age-group international.

"It seems the only way you get picked to play for Scotland at Under-17s is if you play for the Old Firm. Jamie made his debut in a Hamilton side joint top of the First Division, but he's not good enough for Scotland Under-17s. It's mad."

Meanwhile, McCarthy's first-team starting debut was watched by Man United and Chelsea while Plymouth Argyle are also believed to be keen on the Accies kid.

But McCarthy's football advisor George Gray, of Braveheart Promotions, said: "I hope Jamie will stay at Hamilton at least until the end of the season."
He definitely seems to be well known already. He was 16 last weekend. This will be the final straw for Scotland after already missing out on McGeady and Jim O'Brien of Celtic.

Hamilton fan:
"I've seen James as a sub, but yesterday was my first chance to get a good look at him on his starting debut.

I was amazed by his skill, and his confidence on the ball. I assumed a not-quite-16-year-old would look a bit out of his depth, but he didn't. In fact, he looked a better player than many of those around him, and an unbelievable prospect. I saw enough yesterday to understand why he's attracting attention fromn clubs as big as Barcelona. "

[Fergie's Son]

Interesting. Thanks for posting it.

Very early days yet but good to see this.

[Stuttgart88]

Watch this space I suppose. Interesting indeed.

[The Legend]

Why the hell are these guys declaring for the republic, they should be declaring for their own country... the way things are going, Scotland have as a bright (or dim) a future as us.

[FootballsKing]

why the hell does Sean McCaffery call Ireland 'Eire'?

[cheifo]

Anybody else find this a little embaressing?Seems like a great prospect though.

[ramondo]

Good to see the Cyprus result didn't put him off – as a 16-year-old in his position I would have had second thoughts.

Interesting that it was his grandfather's origins that influenced his decision.

Does this mean he's committed, or can he change his mind if, say, Scotland qualify for later World Cups or Euro finals and we don't?

I'm not saying big championships the only reason someone would choose to play for us, but it's the main reason we had a decent team in the late 80s / early 90s.

[Poor Student]

Why the hell are these guys declaring for the republic, they should be declaring for their own country... the way things are going, Scotland have as a bright (or dim) a future as us.

They consider this their country. If you knew much about the social history of Scotland over the last century and a half or so you'd know that the Irish immigrants weren't integrated very well into Scottish society and have hence maintained a strong Irish identity.

[greendeiseboy]

wasnt there another scots born lad who declared for us recently andy jackson or something like that....anyone know how he's progressing

[Donal81]

Thanks Eirebhoy, that's excellent news. Good to know the Scotland/Donegal link is still going strong.

[youngirish]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

[galwayhoop]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife?

YEAH Louis Walsh!

are you for real. the fact is that for many years people had to emigrate from this country due to mainly financial reasons. these people who left settled in countries such as england, scotland, usa and others. countries like the usa eventually accepted us as a people and the integration was smooth. unfortunately countries like scotland did not accept us as easily and we were forced to cling to our own heritage and never really integrated into the whole scotish cultural system.

net result:

USA = Irish Americans (people who class themselves as American and live their lives in an american way but are still proud of their irish heritage) Are they Irish ? IMO biologically yeah but in reality not really.

Scotland = Irish people (2g & 3g) who are living in scotland and feel more affinity with this country of their heritage than they do with the country where they and their parents were born. Are they Irish ? IMO yes.

[youngirish]

YEAH Louis Walsh!
are you for real. the fact is that for many years people had to emigrate from this country due to mainly financial reasons. these people who left settled in countries such as england, scotland, usa and others. countries like the usa eventually accepted us as a people and the integration was smooth. unfortunately countries like scotland did not accept us as easily and we were forced to cling to our own heritage and never really integrated into the whole scotish cultural system.

I think the Louis Walsh effect is the more palusible reason. It's easy to pick up women here in England who were all Boyzone/Westlife fans in their younger days due to my 'lovely' North inner city Dublin accent which reminds them of their idols (according to them). I can't even get into Mc Donalds with it back home without getting arrested.

McGeady was a big Boyzone fan when he was younger as far as I know. Praise to Louis Walsh.

[gspain]

I've met Aiden McGeady's uncle a couple of times. He has a keen interest in the EL and Irish football in general. He was also very knowledgable about it. He said the only country Aiden was ever going to play for was us. The family still have very strong ties with home.

[McGeady10]

I am born in Scotland but consider myself Irish.

The same people in Scotland who tell me I'm Scottish also bang on about the "Paki's" (Pakistanis) as if they are NOT Scottish.

This is just inherrent racism.

If Irish people were green I'd be a strong shade of green!

So would this kid and Aiden McGeady.

[galwayhoop]

I think the Louis Walsh effect is the more palusible reason. It's easy to pick up women here in England who were all Boyzone/Westlife fans in their younger days due to my 'lovely' North inner city Dublin accent .

as a person who has lived in both britain and the US i can assure you that there has always been a strong sence of nationalism in ex-pats overseas (in fact it is magnified to such an extent that in many cases it is a stronger sence of nationalism that some at home!)

i know that this was there long before westlife / boyzone! i also know that it is fashionable to be irish these days but i feel that it is a stronger tie to ireland that that gained from the success of manufactured boy bands. it may help you 'pick up birds' - and fair play to you - but in reality in the homes of the irish diaspora (esp those of 2g & 3g) you are more likely to find music collections with the likes of the dubliners, chieftans, clanad, paddy reilly, the wolfe tones and christy moore in them than boyzone!

[Lionel Ritchie]

I think the Louis Walsh effect is the more palusible reason. It's easy to pick up women here in England who were all Boyzone/Westlife fans in their younger days due to my 'lovely' North inner city Dublin accent which reminds them of their idols (according to them). I can't even get into Mc Donalds with it back home without getting arrested.

McGeady was a big Boyzone fan when he was younger as far as I know. Praise to Louis Walsh.
:o
...ah at last the ambulance has arrived. Straight jacket on, next stop An Teach Mór.

[joe_barry80]

as a person who has lived in both britain and the US i can assure you that there has always been a strong sence of nationalism in ex-pats overseas (in fact it is magnified to such an extent that in many cases it is a stronger sence of nationalism that some at home!)

i know that this was there long before westlife / boyzone! i also know that it is fashionable to be irish these days but i feel that it is a stronger tie to ireland that that gained from the success of manufactured boy bands. it may help you 'pick up birds' - and fair play to you - but in reality in the homes of the irish diaspora (esp those of 2g & 3g) you are more likely to find music collections with the likes of the dubliners, chieftans, clanad, paddy reilly, the wolfe tones and christy moore in them than boyzone!

It's true living abroad does strenghten your nationalism. I live abroad now this is my home where i live now, but when I have kids they will definitly know their Irish roots. I am so passionate about my country since i moved away I don't know why. I went home for the Czech game with my Fiance and she couldn't belive the atmosphere in the stadium that night. She was all praise for our passion and she definitly seen a different side to me that night maybe a bit Scared now :eek: anyways i just want to say that if the traditions are passed down through the generations and thats all they know is Irishness let them play for us who cares. All we want is success please tell me if I'm wrong. We were not complaining when we Qualified for 3 world cups and a Euro champs with british born players.

[Block G Raptor]

I'm born and bread in Ireland,my paternal grandmother is from paisley and I would jump at the chance to play for Scotland but it wouldn't be my first choice

[shakermaker1982]

lets hope nobody slips him a tape of our game out in Cyprus :)

[Billsthoughts]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

Deffo the Louis Walsh effect...

[Block G Raptor]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.


It was the Eurovision's fault I'm telling ya!

[endabob1]

It was the Eurovision's fault I'm telling ya!

Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow:D

[EalingGreen]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

Of course you've never had any ROI boys declaring for other nations: Ireland has never had any significant immigration until comparatively recently.

It's possible that in another 15 or 20 years you might have young Irish-born lads opting for e.g. Lithuania or Latvia, mind.

And as for "overseas" players opting for the ROI, in many cases this will have been because they were much less likely to get a regular place in the team of the country of their birth*.

As for your Louis Walsh theory, I laughed out loud when I read this, but on further reflection, I've begun to suspect that in the absence of Sir Bobby Robson, Stan has actually been using a panel of Louis, Simon and Sharon to pick (and coach) his teams. :D


* - How many Irish caps did Tony Cascarino get? Rather more than he'd have got for England or Italy, I fancy!

[Billsthoughts]

Professional footballers in "looking after their own self interest" shocker!!!!:eek:

[Block G Raptor]

Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow:D
At least we were cosistantly the best at something in europe Scotland wales or Ingerland Couldn't boast that now could they

[BaZmO*]

"It seems the only way you get picked to play for Scotland at Under-17s is if you play for the Old Firm. Jamie made his debut in a Hamilton side joint top of the First Division, but he's not good enough for Scotland Under-17s. It's mad."
It think that's the most important point to be taken from the article.
Although fairplay to the lad, at least he's making the decision to play for us early on in his career rather than waiting until he's in his late 20's and washed up in the lower leagues still hoping to be "noticed". Hopefully he turns out to be a decent player for us.

[davey]

Professional footballers in "looking after their own self interest" shocker!!!!:eek:

Erm, how is declaring for a country ranked lower than Scotland looking after his own self interest??

I'm a 2g, raised in birmingham but have lived in glasgow for the last few years. In my experience, the irish connection in the west of scotland is generally 2 generations past. Most Irish scots under 30 would have their link to Ireland, or more specifically Donegal, through their Grandparents. However due to the social stuff mentioned earlier, these links are still keenly felt. Growing up in Birmingham, nearly all Irish fans would have both parents being Irish. People with Irish grandparents would usually be England fans. Patterns of immigration being as they are, the west of scotland wasn't seen as an attractive place to the Irish emigre in the 60s and 70s.

[tricky_colour]

There is a Dublin born guy playing for England, albeit at cricket, which is even worse :D
http://www.metronews.ca/storyCP.aspx?pg=./4111501AU.xml
Are England complaining? I don't think he has English parents or grandparents either - but I have not checked.

[Billsthoughts]

Erm, how is declaring for a country ranked lower than Scotland looking after his own self interest??
.

he was talking about tony cascarino.

[endabob1]

I know loads of English born people who through their ancestry consider themselves Irish and support Ireland rather than England, I also know some English born people who chose to ignore their Irish ancestry and describe themselves as English. It's a personal choice

[Freoch]

Hi everyone, im new.
I think that more and more over the coming years players will declare and play for any international team for which they are eligible. E.g. Marlon King , Vinnie Jones.
However so far (thankfully) in the case of Ireland many players have had a genuine wish to play for us and a genuine affinity with the country, handed down from their grandparenrs or parents , with this i mean the likes of aldridge and houghton.
Unfortunately i think many of the newer British born irish players dont seem to have this , we are moving into vinnie jones territory by courting **** ants like Kevin Nolan and many other lower league players id like to mention here but i wont.
It sounds like this new scottish guy is the real deal and with McGeady you can see it too but i dont like the way its starting to go.

[macdermesser]

oh oh ... Man United are after him now according to the Daily Mirror (on the BBC website).

hope Fergie won't try talk him around for playing for Scotland and hope he doesn't turn out to be the new Liam Miller. Granred Miller was already 23 when he signed for United.

Sounds like a prospect though!:)

[livehead1]

There is a Dublin born guy playing for England, albeit at cricket, which is even worse :D
http://www.metronews.ca/storyCP.aspx?pg=./4111501AU.xml
Are England complaining? I don't think he has English parents or grandparents either - but I have not checked.

I read this story with a keen interest when it first emerged over a year ago. Ed Joyce is his name, and he is 100% irish. He plays for Middlesex. the reason he is playing for England is nothing to do with him feeling an affiliation with the side he plays cricket for, it is simply because Ireland's international side is not professional. Cricket in Ireland is an amateur sport, so for Joyce to progress he has little choice.

His circumstances can be distinguished from that of Kyran Bracken, how is Irish, but decided to play for England.

[cavan_fan]

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

You have a point here. I understand how English born players (e.g. Clinton) may see us as an easy way to get to play International Football. I also understand at the time McGeady made his choice that it might have seemed like we were a better prosepct of major finals than Scotland. Over the last 20 years in fact we've been the ideal combination of a team that is relatively easy to get into but likely to get to a major finals.

I'd suggest that this is no longer the case. A young Scottish player is about as likely to break into the Scottish team as the Irish team and they are both as likely to get to a major finals. Makes it a strange decision and hard to justify on footballing/selfish grounds.

By the way I'd guess the reason you dont have that many Irish players declaring for other countries is our lack of strength in depth. I cant think of a decent Irish player who has not been capped by the end of his career.

[The Legend]

They consider this their country. If you knew much about the social history of Scotland over the last century and a half or so you'd know that the Irish immigrants weren't integrated very well into Scottish society and have hence maintained a strong Irish identity.

I wonder if you would be so strong in your opinions if a young irish kid declared for Scotland cause of His 'ol Granddaddy! Oh and personally I couldnt careless but this would be irritating if I was scottish.

[ramondo]

Originally Posted by endabob1
Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow


At least we were cosistantly the best at something in europe Scotland wales or Ingerland Couldn't boast that now could they

...but we didn't realise the joke was on us.

[dr_peepee]

Maybe he's an orphan living with his mean old uncle. And he has to make it to Ireland somehow with his little sister to find his Granny...

[Qwerty]

I read this story with a keen interest when it first emerged over a year ago. Ed Joyce is his name, and he is 100% irish. He plays for Middlesex. the reason he is playing for England is nothing to do with him feeling an affiliation with the side he plays cricket for, it is simply because Ireland's international side is not professional. Cricket in Ireland is an amateur sport, so for Joyce to progress he has little choice.

His circumstances can be distinguished from that of Kyran Bracken, how is Irish, but decided to play for England.

Bracken was given the cold shoulder by Ireland selectors at underage level, he would have played for Ireland if he had been picked. The IRFU used to - and may still do at under age level - have a very political selection policy.

[tetsujin1979]

McCarthy linked with United again
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=431481&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=United+check+on+Scots+starlet

[lopez]

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish...You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams...Tell me youngirish: Did you miss the history lesson on emigration? Are you not yet old enough for it? Or is that there is more likely to be a section in the Sex Education module at your school on the more extreme end of homosexuality, than any discource on why for most of the 19th and 20th centuries there were more 'Irish born' living outside the 32 counties than within it.

...next stop An Teach Mór.Is that the one in Ballinasloe for the Connemara poteen addicts or is there a big house in Limerick?:D

I wonder if you would be so strong in your opinions if a young irish kid declared for Scotland cause of His 'ol Granddaddy! Oh and personally I couldnt careless but this would be irritating if I was scottish.What you mean like Kyran Bracken who played rugby for England, or those fine Irishmen like the Duke of Wellington, Lord Kitchener, Sir Henry Wilson and Edward Carson? And seeing that you think that anyone born abroad has no interest in Ireland, please tell me where was Thomas Clarke, James Connolly, Constance Markiewicz and Eamon DeValera came from?

And who cares here what Scotland fans think? As far as I'm concerned, cut the apron strings from mother England, get some independence, and then you might be able to be called a 'nation'. :cool:

[youngirish]

Tell me youngirish: Did you miss the history lesson on emigration? Are you not yet old enough for it? Or is that there is more likely to be a section in the Sex Education module at your school on the more extreme end of homosexuality, than any discource on why for most of the 19th and 20th centuries there were more 'Irish born' living outside the 32 counties than within it.

No I'm well aware of it but just because somebody's grandaddy was Irish and decided to spread his wings and his seed away from the old country it certainly doesn't make their grandchildren Irish. How can someone be Irish when they've never spent any considerable time in the country where they claim they are from? If someone never grew up in Ireland, went to school with other Irish kids, watched Irish television, learned the Irish language and Irish history (etc), had that particular brand of Irish craic in the local pub then how can they claim to be Irish?

Irish is a nationality not a race. Genetically we're practically identical to a number of other Northern European nationalities.

[youngirish]

How many people on here can speak fluent Irish then? I left in 1993 and people were whinging about nobody speaking Irish . . . I come back now and people are complaining that nobody speaks English any more!
And it's spelt craic . . . .

That was one point of many. Most people can at least speak 'Tarzan' level Irish.



And it's spelt craic . . . .

I was talking about crack cocaine.

[Plastic Paddy]

No I'm well aware of it but just because somebody's grandaddy was Irish and decided to spread his wings and his seed away from the old country it certainly doesn't make their grandchildren Irish. How can someone be Irish when they've never spent any considerable time in the country where they claim they are from? If someone never grew up in Ireland, went to school with other Irish kids, watched Irish television, learned the Irish language and Irish history (etc), had that particular brand of Irish craic in the local pub then how can they claim to be Irish?

Ahh, the same old story. Bet you cheered just as loudly as everyone else when Houghton scored against England and Italy. Bet you weren't thinking then about the fact that their birthplace made them "less Irish" than other members of the team. :rolleyes:

Anyway, it's over to the wonderful Joe Horgan to put you in your place, mister wind-up merchant. Read on. You might learn something.

"James Connolly, signatory to the 1916 Proclamation and one of the main political thinkers behind the uprising, probably didn’t visit Ireland until 14 or 15 years of age. When he did so it was as a member of the British army. He was executed by the same British army while strapped to a chair in the grounds of Kilmainham jail. Born in Edinburgh. Plastic Paddy.

Tom Clarke, first to sign the 1916 Proclamation. Active in the cause of Irish separatism for over 30 years prior to the Easter Rising, he served 15 years hard labour in England for his part in a bombing campaign. Born on the Isle of Wight. Plastic Paddy.

Éamon de Valera, the last commander to surrender in 1916. Hugely influential figure in the War of Independence, the civil war after the signing of the treaty and Irish life up to the 1970s. He was President of the Irish republic from 1959-73 and had such an impact that the country became known as “de Valera’s Ireland”. Born in New York. Plastic Paddy.

James Larkin, who was credited with founding the Irish labour movement. He led the workers in the 1913 lock-out and was a hero to the Dublin masses. He was a Labour TD up until the 1940s. Born in Liverpool. Plastic Paddy.

Peter Monahan, a member of Tom Barry’s flying column in West Cork, was part of the guerrilla forces that are credited with bringing Lloyd George to the negotiating table after inflicting heavy losses on British forces. An explosives expert who died at the famous Crossbarry ambush, he is buried in the republican plot in Bandon. Born in Scotland. Plastic Paddy.

Sean Phelan, Sean and Ernie Nunan, Johnny O’Connor, Desmond Ryan, Margaret Skinnider, Desmond Fitzgerald, Joe Good, Arthur Agnew, Paddy Moran, Peggy Downey, Liam Daley, Piaras Beaslai and Liam Mellows. All were active in the rising of 1916 and had cockney, scouse and Scottish accents. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.

St. Patrick, credited with founding the church in Ireland. Patron saint of the country. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddy.

Liam McCarthy, after whom the all-Ireland hurling trophy is named. Born in England. Plastic Paddy.

Seán Óg Ó hAilpín, the Cork captain who this year lifted that very trophy and gave his entire acceptance speech in fluent Irish. Seen by many as the modern embodiment of the GAA’s sporting ideal. Born in Australia. Plastic Paddy.

Paul McGrath, probably the finest player of the era when an Irish soccer team finally went to a European championship and two World Cup finals. This sporting success is seen by many as helping to kick-start the birth of a new, confident Ireland. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.

David O’Leary, who scored that famous penalty against Romania, and Ray Houghton, who scored those goals against England and Italy. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.

The Edge and Adam Clayton of U2, the band said by many to be the best in the world. Acclaimed as being the first to put Irish rock music on the world scene as a credible enterprise. Entwined in the whole concept of modern Ireland and Irishness as something cool and hip. Born in England. Plastic Paddies.

Shane MacGowan, sometime lead singer with the Pogues. Generally acclaimed as one of the finest songwriters of our time. His songs encapsulate much of what it is to be Irish and he wrote the greatest Christmas song ever. Born in Tunbridge Wells. Plastic Paddy.

Ronan Bennett, critically lauded Irish novelist. Imprisoned in Long Kesh and in England on suspicion of republican activities. Born in Oxford. Plastic Paddy.

Pearse Hutchinson, poet writing primarily in the Irish language. Born in Glasgow. Plastic Paddy.

Cyril Cusack, actor and father of the famous Irish acting family. Born in Kenya. Plastic Paddy.

Jack Butler Yeats, brother of the poet and renowned in his own right as one of Ireland’s finest painters. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.

Thousands of the children and grandchildren brought up in Irish families in Britain , with Irish names and Irish ways. With accents and lives in Britain. With their Irish faces on British streets. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies. Plastic Paddies everywhere."


Genetically we're practically identical to a number of other Northern European nationalities.

Not so. I suggest you read "Blood of the Isles" by Bryan Sykes, which is the definitive work on genetic anthropology in this corner of the globe. It gives the lie to your claim about being "practically identical" to others, and that's just in reference to the Scots, Welsh and English. Might be worth checking your facts before posting again.

:ball: PP

[youngirish]

Plastic Paddy it annoys me when people like yourself make up stuff that was never stated in a post and then write a huge article rebuking your own invented take on the post. I never stated being born in Ireland was the definite marker used to determine if someone was Irish. The majority of the people above you mentioned spent a large part of their life in Ireland and this would qualify them as being Irish.

As regards your comments on your book. Irish people genetically are for the most part of the same stock as the original inhabitants that settled here after the last Ice Age with some migrations from the Celts, Vikings (Normans) and Anglo Saxons so try looking at other information before taking as gospel everything you read in some book you picked up in the bargain bin in Easons.

Here read this for another take:

A variety of historical ethnic groups have inhabited the island, including the Airgialla, Fir Ol nEchmacht, Delbhna, Fir Bolg, Érainn, Eóganachta, Mairtine, Conmaicne, Soghain and Ulaid.

The shared language and culture of these peoples (and indeed the peoples of Atlantic Europe) is one that can be placed among the European peoples. Current genetic research supports the idea that people living in the Britain and Ireland are on average mainly descended from the indigenous European Paleolithic (Old Stone Age hunter gatherers) population (about 80%), with a smaller neolithic (New Stone Age farmers) input (about 20%).[14] Paleolithic Europeans seem to have been a homogenous population, possibly due to a population bottleneck (or near-extinction event) on the Iberian peninsula, where a small human population is thought to have survived the glaciation, and then expanded into Europe during the Mesolithic period. The assumed genetic imprint of Neolithic incomers is seen as a cline, with stronger neolithic representation in the east of Europe and stronger paleolithic representation in the west of Europe. [9] The frequencies of Y-chromosome haplotypes in the Irish population are similar to that of most other populations of Atlantic Europe, especially the Basques of northern Spain and southern France.[8] [10] Y-chromosome analysis also seems to indicate that the Vikings that settled in Dublin came from Norway rather than Denmark.[10] Mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited through the female line, shows part of the maternal ancestors of the Irish to be of broad north European origin.

And if you doubt it look on the web for more information which generally adheres to the same line.

[Marked Man]

The Edge and Adam Clayton of U2, the band said by many to be the best in the world. .[/B]



You were making a lot of sense until that bit.

[Plastic Paddy]

Plastic Paddy it annoys me when people like yourself make up stuff that was never stated in a post and then write a huge f**king article rebuking your own invented take on the post. I never stated being born in Ireland was the definite marker used to determine if someone was Irish. The majority of the people above you mentioned spent a large part of their life in Ireland and this would qualify them as being Irish.

Despite being born and reared in England my passport states that I'm an Irish citizen and that's good enough for me. I don't think anyone that's read my posts in the three or so years I've posted here would question my Irishness and the same can be said of many of the other 2G posters on here. Frankly it's a good thing we don't have to rely on your arbitrary and somewhat selective approach to nationality and citizenship.


As regards your comments on your book. Irish people genetically are for the most part of the same stock as the original inhabitants that settled here after the last Ice Age with some migrations from the Celts, Vikings (Normans) and Anglo Saxons so try looking at other information before taking as gospel everything you read in some book you picked up in the bargain bin in Easons.

Here read this for another take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people

And if you doubt it look on the web for more information which generally adheres to the same line.

If you take as gospel what you read on Wikipedia then I suggest it's you who needs to check the veracity of your sources. Mine was hardly a bargain bin purchase - like I said, it's widely cited as the definitive work on genetic anthropology in these islands. Hardly a remaindered puff-piece. As a matter of fact I'd happily recommend it to you.

:ball: PP

[youngirish]

If you take as gospel what you read on Wikipedia then I suggest it's you who needs to check the veracity of your sources. Mine was hardly a bargain bin purchase - like I said, it's widely cited as the definitive work on genetic anthropology in these islands. Hardly a remaindered puff-piece. As a matter of fact I'd happily recommend it to you.

:ball: PP
I don't that's why I said to have a look at other articles on the web which generally state the same. Who cited it as the definite work anyway? The author?

[livehead1]

I don't that's why I said to have a look at other articles on the web which generally state the same. Who cited it as the definite work anyway? The author?

to be fair to PP I have read the aforementioned article, and generally it is held in high esteem, as is the author.

[livehead1]

Bracken was given the cold shoulder by Ireland selectors at underage level, he would have played for Ireland if he had been picked. The IRFU used to - and may still do at under age level - have a very political selection policy.

Sorry, i understood the IRFU to be non-political. What are Bracken's politics that make him so different from anyone else in the side?