Rossport Today

[Ringo]

Less than 1/4 of the Adult population voted for them. Hardly representative of the Nation now is it? Its very expensive to run candidates and the government funding you mentioned is a pitance compared with what the brown paper envelope can afford, but again this is straying off topic.


That’s democracy for you:D . The public are so stupid, what can you do, they have no mind's of there own;) . Maybe they just don't by into the whole socialism thing, i wonder why:rolleyes:

[BohsPartisan]

But I would posit that you cannot place Rosport in a vacume divorced from the material circumstances that created the situation.
I wouldn't call the protesters NIMBY's as thats a derogatory remark for people who do no want something in their area but don't mind it being in someone else's back yard. Thats not an accurate description of the original aims of the protest. They want the refinery to be at sea as is the industry norm!
Again the example you use of vegetarianism is not comparing like with like. The people at Rossport ar not against modern technology or the use of fuel sold by Shell, so why are they hypocrites for driving cars? I'm sure they are boycotting Shell and Statoil until this is resolved. I know I do.

[pete]

Surely placing the Terminal on the edge of the coast (i believe this was 1 proposed site by the protestors) will ruin the scenic area for the purposes of tourism? Would seem better to place it in a bog well away from the scenic parts of that area?

:confused:

[BohsPartisan]

Bog is unstable. Not a good place for highly pressurised pipes.

[pete]

Bog is unstable. Not a good place for highly pressurised pipes.

I only used bog to suggest land of low value.

[BohsPartisan]

If it was sufficiently far away from population ant the land was stable like in the middle of a desert that would be fine. Thats not an option in this instance.
The legal arguement employed here might hold water (though as I have already stated I believe th elaw is stacked against the protesters and civil disobedience is a legitimate tactic) if the cops actually abided by the law and made arrests rather than carrying out acts of ultra-violence against the protesters - which is not allowed by law but I don't see any of them being arrested either.

[bennocelt]

[QUOTE=Ringo;576011]That’s democracy for you:D . The public are so stupid, what can you do, they have no mind's of there own
Maybe they just don't by into the whole socialism thing, i wonder why:[QUOTE]

in a country where the irish sun is the biggest selling daily!:rolleyes:
no really democracy is great:(

[WeAreRovers]

in a country where the irish sun is the biggest selling daily!:rolleyes:


It's not but hey, don't let that get in the way of your prejudices. :rolleyes:

KOH

[BohsPartisan]

People aren't stupid, just blighted by years of having no opposition worth voting for. Its hardly surprising that half the population couldn't give a flying fig about politics.

[dahamsta]

It's not but hey, don't let that get in the way of your prejudices.Isn't it the Indo at the moment? Isn't that worse? :)

As long as we can keep the Star away from the top spot we'll be ok.

adam

[WeAreRovers]

Isn't it the Indo at the moment? Isn't that worse? :)

As long as we can keep the Star away from the top spot we'll be ok.

adam

Indo, then IT, then the Sun, then the Star.

IMO The Star is miles ahead of the Sun. Say what you like about the Star but editorially it's Irish. Small consolation but it does make a difference.

I deal with Sun/NOW/Mirror/People hacks every day. They're all based in the UK and making editorial decisons about Ireland with zero knowledge.

KOH

[dahamsta]

I don't care how Irish it is, it's a rag. The Sun isn't much better, but the Star is just plain lowest common denominator sentationalist claptrap. The hacks can't even write their own stories ffs, they have to steal it from message boards.

adam

[onceahoop]

People aren't stupid, just blighted by years of having no opposition worth voting for. Its hardly surprising that half the population couldn't give a flying fig about politics.

And that's why you and your like are ****ing into the wind.

[BohsPartisan]

Not the case. Its a slow process but once we establish ourselves in an area we gain a lot of support - but as I said, very slow process.

[bennocelt]

It's not but hey, don't let that get in the way of your prejudices. :rolleyes:

KOH


oh sorry, its second then, or third:rolleyes:

[Macy]

Are you saying that the Judiciary is not independent?. There is a clear seperation of power between it and the executive.
The judiciary are political appointments.

[pete]

The judiciary are political appointments.

Any suggestion for alternative? Remember we do elect the politicians. I think political appointees a lot better than way Sheriffs & Attorney Generals elected by the public in the US.

[Macy]

Any suggestion for alternative?
I'm not sure there is an effective alternative, probably the best of a bad lot. Thinks it's a whole other thread myself, particularly given recent high profile events.

I was more making the point that the Judiciary are not necessarily independent and unbias, as some were making out.

[BohsPartisan]

An elected and recallable Judiciary is the only way it can be accountable. There needs to be a complete overhall of the whole legal system. Solicitors and Barristers get way to much money. In the case of tribunals that have no propper outcome they actually profit from having the whole thing drag on and on and on.

[WeAreRovers]

I think political appointees a lot better than way Sheriffs & Attorney Generals elected by the public in the US.

Yeah, that aul democracy is terrible stuff. Better to do away with it altogether. Sure what would ordinary people know about anything. :rolleyes:

KOH

[Macy]

But they're not the judiciary - that's the equivalent of electing the DPP rather than the Judge.

[pete]

Yeah, that aul democracy is terrible stuff. Better to do away with it altogether. Sure what would ordinary people know about anything.

If we could limit the number of people who get a vote would be good but don;t think its feasable. Sure look at the number of people who re-elect idiots like Lowry, Healy-Ray, Flynn etc... I think they have proven they can not be trusted with votes.

A directly elected judiciary would lead to populous causes played on by the red top tabloids using bad cases to dictate bad law.

[WeAreRovers]

If we could limit the number of people who get a vote would be good but don;t think its feasable. Sure look at the number of people who re-elect idiots like Lowry, Healy-Ray, Flynn etc... I think they have proven they can not be trusted with votes.

A directly elected judiciary would lead to populous causes played on by the red top tabloids using bad cases to dictate bad law.

There's a documentary on RTÉ One next week called Eoin O'Duffy: An Irish Fascist. It might be of interest to you as you seem to have similiar views. ;)

KOH

[BohsPartisan]

There's a documentary on RTÉ One next week called Eoin O'Duffy: An Irish Fascist.

What night is that on?

[WeAreRovers]

What night is that on?

It's actually Tuesday December 5. Fascinating stuff that will make FG and the Guards squirm after spending 60 years pretending that they don't have fascist DNA. Press release below.

KOH

Eoin O'Duffy - An Irish Fascist is a new and revealing portrait of a man who, over sixty years after his death, continues to be remembered as one of the most controversial figures in twentieth century Irish history.

Eoin O'Duffy's reputation as one of the villains of Irish history is rooted in his role as leader of the Blueshirts, Ireland's fascist movement during the 1930s, when he modelled himself on Benito Mussolini and declared his admiration for Adolf Hitler.

But as this new documentary reveals, O'Duffy was much more than an Irish fascist.

As a ruthless IRA leader during the War of Independence, a close ally of Michael Collins, the Garda commissioner who helped shape the force today and the first President of Fine Gael, O'Duffy was a complex and contradictory character - and one who played a central role in the creation of modern Ireland.

With access to previously unseen documents, including O'Duffy's unpublished memoirs, Eoin O'Duffy - An Irish Fascist provides a riveting and revealing insight into one of Irish history's most intriguing characters.

The documentary explores the personal motives that drove O'Duffy throughout his life: from his impoverished childhood in Monaghan to his revolutionary republicanism; and from his leadership of Fine Gael and the Blueshirts during the 1930's to his final days as a Nazi sympathiser during World War Two.

The film reveals how O'Duffy was a man blinded by ambition and haunted by personal demons. It also shows how he failed to live up to his own ideals, not least as a preacher of teetotalism who was, in private, a chronic alcoholic. The documentary also assesses recent claims that O'Duffy was a closet homosexual.

Eoin O'Duffy - An Irish Fascist features contributions from a range of leading Irish historians, including Dr. Fearghal McGarry of Queen's University, Belfast, author of a recent biography on O'Duffy, and Diarmaid Ferriter of Dublin City University.

[BohsPartisan]

Gas pipeline explodes in Indonesia on Java Island death, injuries and unfolding environmental disaster
Indonesia blamed an uncontrolled mud flow on Thursday for a gas pipeline explosion that killed at least seven people and injured 12 on Java island.

The late Wednesday blast -- which disrupted gas operations in the area -- occurred near the city of Surabaya in a part of the state-owned Pertamina East Java Gas Pipeline.


The Rest of the Article (http://www.indymedia.ie/article/79846)

[manofthemoment]

from http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=101851

Seventy percent of people in County Mayo believe that work on the controversial Shell Corrib gas pipeline should be allowed to continue uninterrupted, according to a 'Red C' opinion poll for the Irish Independent and Prime Time.
This Poll indicates a strong backlash against the recent violent clashes between demonstrators and Gardai in Bellanaboy.

Only 8% of people agree with the statement that protesters at the gas pipeline speak for all of the community while 40% said the demonstrators only represent a minority.

A further 53% believe that protesters are indulging in intimidation, while 52% of people believe they are being manipulated from outside.

[BohsPartisan]

This is actually a distortion of the poll findings as you would know if you watched primetime last night. There were several polls undertaken all of which contradicted each other. In fact in one poll, people who said the protesters were wrong said they would take the same action if it happened in their area! In other polls taken the majority sided with the protesters.
The indo as has been pointed out before has an agenda here as Tony O Reilly has a majour stake in a similar gasfield off the coast of Clare and is more than likely waiting to see the outcome of rossport to do the same thing there.

[pete]

There were several polls undertaken all of which contradicted each other. In fact in one poll, people who said the protesters were wrong said they would take the same action if it happened in their area! In other polls taken the majority sided with the protesters.


Yes I saw that somewhat contradictory poll results too however a clear majority of people basically voted for Shell over the Protestors when had to choose. The protestors have too many mixed messages & have lost any public support they ever had.

I think PrimeTime & the Irish Independent poll is reputable poll. I have not seen any other polls undertaken by professional companies.

When is the last time we have mud slide of Indonesian proportions in Mayo. :rolleyes:

[BohsPartisan]

Irish Times did one. which I think was almost 50-50. As I said already I wouldn't read anything into a poll in O Reilly's rag as he has an agenda. The constant vilification of the protesters in the media will have an effect on polls too.
On the protesters sending mixed messages, I think the official Shell to Sea people's publications have been very clear about what they want. However the media have often misrepresented them. It doesn't help when news reports focus on people saying rosaries and "news" reports of fictitious female Gardaí being injured by protesters (Notice these claims are never substantiated, there is never any footage and there is never an interview with the "victim".)
Also good to see my post proving once again the instability of these pipelines being ignored.

[BohsPartisan]

Just had a detailed look at the Poll in the indo. The sensationalist headlines do not tally with what is actually in the polls. The headlines are a blatant attempt to distort what people actually said.
52% of people said the protests should coninue albeit this figure was split between those who said the protesters should continue in the present manner and those who said they should protest without impeding the work.
Only 51% thought the pipeline should go ahead - a very small majority (which also contradicts the 52% who said the protests should continue and the 59% who said they would act in the same way as the protesters if the same thing was happening in their area). 43% said the protesters spoke for a majority or all of the community while 40% said they spoke for a minority of the community.
All this poll shows is a lot of confusion on the issues and a certain polarisation. Given the bias against the protesters in the media, its surprising that they fared so well in this poll.

[Macy]

Thing that immediately struck me was why the whole of Mayo would be polled anyway. It'd be like asking someone who lives in Bray what they think of the port tunnel work disruption.

Any O'Reilly paper can't be trusted on issues of the people v big business, as he is a fat cat himself. Look at the Irish Ferries coverage for example - all following the Indo tradition going back to the lockout...

[pete]

I even support the right of peaceful protest eventhough i disagree with their issue. I obviously reject illegal protests. It appears a lot of people had similar opinions in the RTE poll.

Whatever side of the fence you sit on i think we can all agree is typically irish that a percentage of voters disgree with protestors side but then say they'd do exactly the same thing themselves. :eek:

[BohsPartisan]

Just found out that another figure that the poll turned up but which NONE OF THE PAPERS PRINTED was that more people in the poll (44%) said the pipeline should be offshore than said it should go the Shell route!!!

(This appeared on the Irish Times Website)

[BohsPartisan]

Actually here it is. From the breaking news section.


They claim that a key poll finding which asked respondents their preferred development model for the Corrib gas project was not published. This question showed that 44 per cent supported an off-shore processing of the gas; 29 per cent supported a processing at Bellanaboy; and 17 per cent wanted the project abandoned.

Despite the fact that this figure shows 61% agreeing with the aims of the campaign the Times Website still runs with the headline DISPUTED POLL SUPPORTS CORRIB PIPELINE
I think it is quite clear that this poll has been nothing but a blatant propaganda excercise from the mouthpieces of big business.

[Dr.Nightdub]

When is the last time we have mud slide of Indonesian proportions in Mayo.

Three years ago, actually: Mayo landslide (http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0920/landslide.html)

A landslide in Rossport wouldn't have to be of Indonesian proportions. One of mere Mayo proportions was enough to take out roads and bridges (note the photo in the link). I'd imagine a gas pipeline would go the same way.

And what started it? "...heavy rain." Wow, heavy rain in Mayo, who'd've guessed?

[RogerMilla]

the more i read about this the more i blame the government. Shell statoil and marathon were given carte blanche to exploit ( which is exactly what they have done ) these resources.

I could sympathise with the local protesters but really the most sickening thing is that it wont even lower the price of gas in Ireland. A shocking indictment of this country political culture and it's kow-towing to multi-nationals ( i dont believe for one a "rainbow" govt would have acted any differently towards shell ) .

[WeAreRovers]

This is actually a distortion of the poll findings as you would know if you watched primetime last night.

Have to agree with my gypo-Trot friend here. Looks like RTÉ have even broken their own Programme Makers Guidlines due to mindlessly parrotting INM's editorial line.

RTÉ could be in big trouble over this, the Indo obviously doesn't give a crap and, unlike RTÉ, are totally unaccountable. :mad:

I've said it before but the Shell to Sea people need to sort out their PR once and for all. A single unified voice and a single unified message is needed. Otherwise INM and their lackies in the rest of the media will wipe the floor with the protestors.

KOH