Irish Public Transport Verdict

[pete]

In recent weeks i have been reminded why I rarely use public transport... Its sh!te!

Dublin Airport
- 1 hour just to get through security a couple of weeks ago.
- Temporary cardboard section for Gates A.
- Despite increasing passenger numbers for years only just decided to build Terminal D.

Dublin Bus
- The only public transport to & from is Dublin Bus Airlink. Waited 20 minutes for that to arrive last thursday evening & never arrived so had to take taxi. I can see how buses can get stuck in traffic but that bus service STARTS at O'Connell St.
- At peak morning times Airlink only runs every 30 minutes. Bus driver prefers to have coffee break at 8.30am instead of loading bus.

I must admit I am lazy & drive to work but that is because on good day car may only take 20 minutes while bus will be 45 minutes. Even in worst traffic bus will never beat car.

:rolleyes:

Do we have worst capital city public transport in Europe?

[jebus]

Down the country we have

-Inner city buses that show up when they feel like it, often if there are three buses for that scheduled route they will show up in a row. An easy way to stop that would be for one bus to wait at a stop for 5 minutes to give the bus ahead a significant lead, but nope that seems too complicated for o0ur bus drivers.

-Varying journey prices, and this one happened to me lately. I travel to Cork from Limerick every week and bus tickets for a weekly return vary from 16.50 to 20.50 with anything in between. Two examples of this luncay is that a weekly midweek return from Limerick to Cork costs (allegedly) 16.50, whilst a daily return costs 20.50 (**** knows why), also a weekly return from Midleton to Cork City costs 7.60 regular, and 8.30 student (wtf?)

[BohsPartisan]

Works well for me. I commute from Drogheda to Dublin Connolly every day and the train is pretty good. Though we chose to live in Drogheda above Navan because that service is there. I appreciate in many areas its rubbish and needs to be vastly improved, which requires massive investment.

[pete]

While I agree that investment is lacking in certain areas I am also unconvinved that the current operators really have the slighest clue. I know there have no been any increase in bus number in recent years due to government inaction but how difficult is it to follow a bus schedule for a high profile airport service. In other countries they prioritise bus & rail services to & from the airport.

Dublin delays are organisation issue. Add more metal detectors things, add more staff & actually organise thr unning of it.

Its too convenient to always blame lack of investment.

[BohsPartisan]

I agree with you there too but I supect our solutions would be somewhat different.

[pete]

I agree with you there too but I supect our solutions would be somewhat different.

I think that debate ran its course after 7 pages :D

[Macy]

Surprised you didn't get aircoach pete ;) Infairness pete the route that the airlink comes up, it's always going to stand the chance of getting stuck in traffic, especially from Drumcondra to the Port Tunnel section.

Dublin Airport is cronic, but again, it was Government inaction that blocked the new terminal.

Personally I'd prefer another Airport on the south/west side of the city. Again to do with the infrastructure I suppose, but such a pain to get across the city if you're Southside. Because of the state of the roads, the state of Dublin Airport meaning you have to be there so early I reckon it's actually quicker for me to get the ferry (stena obv.) to Manch than fly. And that's totally down to infrastructure problems this side.

[pete]

Surprised you didn't get aircoach pete ;) Infairness pete the route that the airlink comes up, it's always going to stand the chance of getting stuck in traffic, especially from Drumcondra to the Port Tunnel section.


Airlink is cheap but now i realise why.

I was getting Airlink from O'Connell St to the Airport. It was the 747 so O'Connell St was the starting point. I use public transport so rarely I can only assume i am not unlucky but this happens every day.

Public monopolies just as bad as private ones.

[Macy]

Public monopolies just as bad as private ones.
Not really - I mean Public Monopolies have a different role - service rather than profit for shareholders. Just in this country there isn't the will to put in place proper public infrastructure, as it goes against the Governments right wing values (so we end up with years of reports and fudging). The airport bus route in the city centre isn't a monopoly anyway due to aformentioned aircoach.

[Poor Student]

Anyone who has gone to UCD has no doubt heard about the 17 bus. It can't remotely keep to its schedule. To give you an example of the kind of people running Dublin Bus. My father, who is a retailer, sought to get permission off Dublin bus to sell tickets off a company rep. There was a unit nearby which sold them and until a few months ago they had a practice whereby you couldn't sell them within a certain distance of another franchise holder. When ym dad told him they were always out of tickets the rep told him "ah, sure to be honest, we don't want to have the tickets too available as they're discounted". Back then they also used to have reps carrying valuable piles of stock worth a shocking amount in the boots of their car instead of using a courrier service.

[BohsPartisan]

Ah the old 17 Bus. I used to get so much reading done on that. Used to take an hour and a half at rush hour to get to Terenure.

[Macy]

Most of the bus timetabling problems goes back to the infrastructure though, not down to work practices and the like that proponents of Privatisation would have you believe, Is the 17 an orbital route?

The bus ticket thing sounds bad, but not uncommon. Wasn't/ Isn't the lotto the same? I always assumed it was done because the attraction was the additional business of people getting a lotto/ bus ticket and buying sweets or something at the same time. If every shop had them, they wouldn't have the same benefits for the hassle?

[Dodge]

Any of the orbital routes (nice word macy) are far too prone to traffic to be reliable regarding timetables. My mate was a bus driver and on one of his routes he had 40 minutes to finish when it usually took at least an hour 9-5 and less than 20 minutes after 8. I'm hoping this Transport 21 (or whatever its called now) is the key as the main problem as I see it is that total lack of co-ordination that goes into it at the moment.

Bus routes in my area are good. As is luas. Realise its not like that everywhere though

[Poor Student]

Ah the old 17 Bus. I used to get so much reading done on that. Used to take an hour and a half at rush hour to get to Terenure.

Still does!


Is the 17 an orbital route?

It's purely Southside, cuts from Dolphin's Barn through Kimmage, Terenure, Rathfarnham, Churchtown, Dundrum and UCD to Blackrock (now there's a stark contrast).


The bus ticket thing sounds bad, but not uncommon. Wasn't/ Isn't the lotto the same? I always assumed it was done because the attraction was the additional business of people getting a lotto/ bus ticket and buying sweets or something at the same time. If every shop had them, they wouldn't have the same benefits for the hassle?

The margin on lottery, phone credit and bus tickets are all pathetic. The retailer is essentially providing a service with which to draw customers in to buy high margin stuff. The lottery no longer has the restrictions anymore either. It makes no difference to Dublin Bus. From a public service perspective they should be happy to provide an easier to use service with ready availability of tickets to avoid hassle with change and from a business perspective they should be making their service easier to use and more accessible plus have their product all over the place penetrating everywhere.

[pete]

Not really - I mean Public Monopolies have a different role - service rather than profit for shareholders..

In Ireland we get no profits & no service.

Aircoach looks better @ 12 euro return & 10-20 minute schedule. :cool:

[John83]

Sometimes I think public demands of what a public transport system should be are unrealistic.

Then something happens to remind me that public transport is far further from where it should be than that.

What it really needs is a real ******* of a minister to get stuck in. Why don't we have integrated tickets for everything? Seriously? I was in Barcelona recently. For €0.65, I could hop on the LUAS-a-like, hop off, get the subway, hop off, get the bus, etc. for an hour and a half. This is a city only three times the size of Dublin (1.6m vs 0.5m from Wikipedia). Could someone in government please look at a system like that and tell us why we can't have one too?

If it costs money, how much? If it needs a radical redevelopment of the whole system, do it - kill the semi-states and replace them from scratch. Just do something.

Of course it won't happen. We keep on voting for the same incompetent tools, putting no pressure on them to actually get anything done.

[pete]

Sometimes I think public demands of what a public transport system should be are unrealistic.


I think different parts of public transport do not want to co-operate as they will lose business e.g. Luas v Dublin Bus.

To use Aircoach example. I believe the inter-city bus routes are now much cheaper & more frequent since they came into the market. I think 12 euro return Dublin-Cork. How much did the public bus service charge before that? Also Aircoach offering 24/7 bus service to dublin airport & other areas which public transport refuses to offer. Aircoach were very small company when they started but they created demand whereas Dublin Bus meerly reacts to change.

[Macy]

Aircoach were very small company when they started but they created demand whereas Dublin Bus meerly reacts to change.
That's not really fair, as the current Government has starved it of resources. Dublin Bus have been demanding the money, or even be allowed off their own back, to get more buses to expand their routes. Similar to Dublin Airport, the Government simply won't make a decision - either privatise or invest in the public sector. Considering Dublin Bus is actually a very efficient user of resources (in Europe wide surveys), I'd obviously say invest in the current set up, but more importantly do something rather than talk bóllox without doing anything. Christ the unions had to threaten strike action to get more buses to expand the service (despite being held up as the bad guys in this).


Could someone in government please look at a system like that and tell us why we can't have one too?
The Government gave Integrated ticketing to the Rail Procurement Agency to look after, who have made a balls of it. Why they didn't let CIE lead this is beyond me (as they control 3 out of the 4 modes of transport that would be using them).

[Poor Student]

I think there is some integrated bus and rail tickets. I'm almost certain there's a monthly one. I'll check into it. Unfortunately monthly tickets aren't actived from when you use them but are issued once a month and only active for that unlike the weekly tickets.:confused:

Macy, in what way are Dublin Bus considered efficient users of resources? By the way they use 15 year old + buses and run them until the engine can't push them up a hill?

[BohsPartisan]

You can get an annual bus rail and Luas tax-saver ticket through your work if that facility is available in your workplace.

[Macy]

Macy, in what way are Dublin Bus considered efficient users of resources? By the way they use 15 year old + buses and run them until the engine can't push them up a hill?
They have one of the lowest subsidy rates of any city in europe - including the privately operated ones. Dublin Bus have no choice on running buses into the ground, as the Government refuses to sanction replacements!


London bus companies receive a state subsidy of 31% of their operating costs. Dublin Bus only gets 25%, which is the smallest state subsidy paid to a public transport operator in all of Europe and North America
Link (http://busrage.com/news20.html)

Slightly older figures, but from a more reliable source...

In 2002, Ireland subsidised 17% of the operating costs of public buses. This was the lowest subsidy rate in the EU. Again in 2002, public bus operation in Dublin recieved a subsidy for 25% of it's total costs. This was the third lowest level of city bus subsidy in the EU
ESRI (http://www.esri.ie/pdf/QEC2005Sum_SA_Casey_Improving%20Irish%20Bus%20Mark ets.pdf)

I think this is a major problem with public transport in this country - people confuse what's brought about by Government and what's brought about by work practices etc. Government inaction is causing the problems, and effecting the service levels to the public, however too many by the Government's line/lies about reform of work practices, union control etc etc. They keep on holding up London as the example, but it has higher subsidies since privatisation, and much higher fares!