Most Underrated Ireland XI

[Bluebeard]

Inspired by discussion on Budgie Byrne and a comment by Pineapple Stu, I thought that this might be an interesting topic. Probably wise to keep this to post 1975 or 1980, as we are really going on nothing but what we saw ourselves.

I'll kick off with three names that come to mind immediately for me:
Denis Irwin (great player that no-one spoke about very much - I acknowledge that he had quite a successful career, but he was never singled out the same way that others were)
John Sheridan (should have been the centre of our team except that we had too many good centre halves and started playing them in midfield, only really took off as an international towards the end of his career)
John "Budgie" Byrne (possibly the best attacking midfielder we had in my time, perfect to slot into the hole between midfield and strikers, never really used him though)

[Dr. Ogba]

I'm not too sure Irwin was underrated by anyone that was actually in the know....

Well I'll start with GK - Alan Kelly Jr - Class keeper that was unlucky enough to be around when Shay Given was starting to make his name. Was first choice for a couple of campaigns (open for correction here) but replaced by Given when he would have been good enough to get into quite a few international teams.

Also, up front - David Kelly...great goalscorer unluck to be in Aldridge's shadow for his Ireland career...

[gustavo]

I think Dennis Irwin has been acknowledged by so many as being underrated that i dont think he is underrated at all.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Dean Kiely - surely few men have carried more traffic cones for Ireland. Much preffered him to Alan Kelly Jnr.

Alan Maybury and Alan Kernaghan in the back four.

Mark Kennedy should have been a great player but was a messer for too much of his career.

Sheridan was unlucky. Talented player playing in a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side.

David Kelly even more so -terrible pity that Newcastle let him go right after promotion and then Sunderland or Wolves did the same on him later on in his career.

[Donal81]

I suspect that Charlton didn't really rate David Kelly or John Byrne as they couldn't scrap it out like Aldridge. They were a bit before my time, though, so I'm open to correction on this. The last time I remember seeing Byrne play was against Turkey in 1991. Did he play after this? I remember Kelly coming on as substitute against Norway and obviously scoring against the Brits but that's it.

I do remember Kelly getting close to being the number 1 striker after USA 94. What happened to him then?

I don't think Irwin was underrated. In fact, if you had to pick an all time Ireland XI, I reckon he'd come close for the full back position.

Sheridan was a great passer but maybe, again, he wasn't to Jack's liking?

[Stuttgart88]

Tony Galvin

Mick McCarthy

[PaulB]

Dave Langan , did his career in playing for Ireland, great player, always a fans favourite

Tony Grealish, think he captained us a couple of times in the early eighties, if not he was captain in spirit..

[tetsujin1979]

for some reason when I saw the thread name I thought of Liam O'Brien, I remember he equalised late on against Wales in a friendly in the 90's, which I think we went on to win. Anyone confirm this?

[bwagner]

ken de mange

[Paddy Garcia]

Jimmy Holmes

[bwagner]

I will tell you the most OVER-RATED...(by staunton) Alan O' Brien ....
No were near the newcastle 11 or subs tonight and their are hit bad with injuries....players ahead of him ...andrew carroll, patterson,huntington ...who who and who

[Superhoops]

I suspect that Charlton didn't really rate David Kelly or John Byrne as they couldn't scrap it out like Aldridge. They were a bit before my time, though, so I'm open to correction on this. The last time I remember seeing Byrne play was against Turkey in 1991. Did he play after this?
John Byrne got 23 caps between 1985 and 1993. Scored 4 goals, including 2 goals against Turkey in Istanbul in 1991 (won 3-1). He played twice after that, both at home to Wales, in 1992 at the RDS (lost 0-1) and in 1993 at Tolka Park (won 2-1).

I remember Kelly coming on as substitute against Norway and obviously scoring against the Brits but that's it. [/QUOTE]
David Kelly got 26 caps and scored 9 goals. He played in 8 more games after the England game in 1995. Scored a hat-trick on his debut against Israel in 1987 9won 5-0). Played with Walsall, West Ham, Leicester, Newcastle, Wolves, Tranmere, Motherwell and Derry City. I think he played and scored in a Wembley League Cup final for Tranmere. In 2002 His contract at Motherwell was terminated after a dressing room punch up with Terry Butcher who was the manager. He ended up playing for Derry City and I believe his last game was the FAI Cup Final at Tolka Park in 2002.

[Superhoops]

for some reason when I saw the thread name I thought of Liam O'Brien, I remember he equalised late on against Wales in a friendly in the 90's, which I think we went on to win. Anyone confirm this?
I think the game you might be thinking about was played in 1993 at Tolka Park. Liam O'Brien played OK. He did not score but was involved in Ireland's 2 goals. Mark Hughes scored in the first half. David Kelly missed a penalty in the first minute of the second half. Kevin Sheedy scored the first. Five minutes later Southall saved an O'Brien free and Tommy Coyne, who had replaced David Kelly, scored the winner.

[theworm2345]

McLoughlin, Kennedy, Connolly, Galvin, Kenna, Kinsella, Kilbane, Stapleton, Cascarino (the last 2 are not that underrated, but they arent given as much credit as they should, Kenna was never superb, but he was never terrible and is often forgotten)

[Stuttgart88]

Jimmy HolmesCareer cut short at a young age. Could have been one of our greats.

[tetsujin1979]

I think the game you might be thinking about was played in 1993 at Tolka Park. Liam O'Brien played OK. He did not score but was involved in Ireland's 2 goals. Mark Hughes scored in the first half. David Kelly missed a penalty in the first minute of the second half. Kevin Sheedy scored the first. Five minutes later Southall saved an O'Brien free and Tommy Coyne, who had replaced David Kelly, scored the winner.

could be the one I'm thinking of, thanks.
Did O'Brien ever score for Ireland, for some reason I remember George Hamilton saying "that's why they call him Zico in the north east". So we're talking 92-94 anyway.

[Qwerty]

Most under-rated = Mick McCarthy.

Most over-rated = John Aldridge.

I don't see how Liam O'Brien, David Kelly or Alan Kernaghan can be seen as under-rated; they were ordinary at best and certainly O'Brien or Kelly never had a real influence on a single competitive game.

[Fergie's Son]

John Sheridan. Surrounded by the right players he could have been world class.

Eddie McGoldrick. Had an absolute blinder in Copenhagen where he actually ran at the Danes and kept the ball.

Chris Morris. Couldn't cross for #(@@( but he was a solid full-back.

[Paddy Garcia]

I suspect our top scorer, calcualted by minutes on the pitch, may have been Tony Cascarino!

This may make him our most efficient anyway, certainly agree under-rated.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Mick McCarthy was underrated, we rarely conceded soft or silly goals with him in the team. Eamonn Dunphy's dismissal of him, was another indication of his blind spots when it comes to analysis. It's no coincidence that when McCarthy left the scene as a player , our goals against average increased.

I have to agree with the assessment of Anto Cascarino. He volunteered to play for Ireland in the latter period of Eoin Hand's reign when the team was brutal and got dismal results ( a bit like the current team :( ).

As regards the most underrated actual team ever produced on the island of Ireland, I think the Northern Irish team of the early 1980's never really got credit down here for their achievements. Their present team is also undervalued.

On current form , with the injuries to Shay Given etc, I believe an All-Ireland team, put out on the field this month, would contain anywhere from 6-8 Northern Irish players .

Here's one for the overrated Republic of Ireland XI.
Eamonn's hero David O'Leary in one performance out in Poland , effectively cost the Republic a place at Euro 92.

[OwlsFan]

Sheridan was unlucky. Talented player playing in a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side..


:eek: Not at all. Won the League Cup in 1991 and got to the FA and League Cup Finals in 1993. Had some really good players but won't bore people (any more than usual).

Sheridan lacked one thing - pace. Great passer of the ball but he wasn't from the "close them down" school that Jack required so his chances were limited plus we had a wealth of talent in midfield in those days.

Dean Kiely I agree was a superb keeper and would have liked to see him get a fairer crack of the whip.

[cavan_fan]

:eek: Not at all. Won the League Cup in 1991 and got to the FA and League Cup Finals in 1993. Had some really good players but won't bore people (any more than usual).


Reminds me of an article I read in 1990 about how Sheff Weds would be the team of the 90's, hard to believe now

[cavan_fan]

Most under-rated = Mick McCarthy.

Most over-rated = John Aldridge.

I don't see how Liam O'Brien, David Kelly or Alan Kernaghan can be seen as under-rated; they were ordinary at best and certainly O'Brien or Kelly never had a real influence on a single competitive game.

Aldridge is arguably the only top class goal poacher we've ever had. Played in a team which played exactly the opposite of how he would have wanted.

[youngirish]

On current form , with the injuries to Shay Given etc, I believe an All-Ireland team, put out on the field this month, would contain anywhere from 6-8 Northern Irish players .


Absolute madness. Are you from Belfast by any chance? Name your 6-8 players. The North would be lucky to get 3 in. We'd take their goalie Taylor(Given being injured) and Davis and maybe Aaron Hughes (though he is no better than McShane IMO and at least Shane has youth on his side). Do people seriously believe any sane manager would swap Healy a Leeds reject sitting at the bottom of the Championship (often on the bench) for Keane or Doyle? One a proven premiership goalscorer and the other one of the best young talents in Britian. Would people seriously consider swapping Keith Gillespie a has been for Duff or Andy Reid or even Mc Geady? Would you swap Chris Baird for Finnan? I could go on but these are three of the North's most highly rated players so there's no point.

Get real and stop getting carried away by one result against Spain. Any manager who let in 6-8 NI players into a united Ireland team at the expense of far more talented and highly rated Republic players would be crucified when the results inevitably start going against him.

[Tipp Townie]

[QUOTE=Superhoops;567154]John Byrne got 23 caps between 1985 and 1993. Scored 4 goals, including 2 goals against Turkey in Istanbul in 1991 (won 3-1). He played twice after that, both at home to Wales, in 1992 at the RDS (lost 0-1) and in 1993 at Tolka Park (won 2-1).[QUOTE]

Did Byrne ever captain us?

I didnt think he had. But i'm going to a special Brighton supporters' night in a few weeks; Byrne is going to be ther to answer questions etc, and on the (admittedly homemade and unauthorised) flyer it refers to him as a 'former captain of Ireland'?!?!?:confused:

[RogerMilla]

Dean kiely hugely under-rated , was unlucky to be up against given
he must have a fridge full of champagne for all of those man of the match awards he won at charlton

[Superhoops]

Did Byrne ever captain us?

I didnt think he had. But i'm going to a special Brighton supporters' night in a few weeks; Byrne is going to be ther to answer questions etc, and on the (admittedly homemade and unauthorised) flyer it refers to him as a 'former captain of Ireland'?!?!?:confused:

I seem to remember in the game against Wales at Tolka in 1993 that when David O'Leary went off injured after 5 minutes, John Byrne took over the captaincy for the rest of the game. Andy Townsend who was captain in the previous few games did not play in that game, but took over captaincy again in the next few games after that.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Sheridan lacked one thing - pace. Great passer of the ball but he wasn't from the "close them down" school that Jack required so his chances were limited plus we had a wealth of talent in midfield in those days.


Sheridan's lack of pace was proof positive he was Irish. We don't do pace in this country. Name all our sprint medallists at European Championships?
1 / Derval O'Rourke....

[CollegeTillIDie]

Absolute madness. Are you from Belfast by any chance? Name your 6-8 players. The North would be lucky to get 3 in. We'd take their goalie Taylor(Given being injured) and Davis and maybe Aaron Hughes (though he is no better than McShane IMO and at least Shane has youth on his side). Do people seriously believe any sane manager would swap Healy a Leeds reject sitting at the bottom of the Championship (often on the bench) for Keane or Doyle? One a proven premiership goalscorer and the other one of the best young talents in Britian. Would people seriously consider swapping Keith Gillespie a has been for Duff or Andy Reid or even Mc Geady? Would you swap Chris Baird for Finnan? I could go on but these are three of the North's most highly rated players so there's no point.

Get real and stop getting carried away by one result against Spain. Any manager who let in 6-8 NI players into a united Ireland team at the expense of far more talented and highly rated Republic players would be crucified when the results inevitably start going against him.

No I am from Dublin. I'd pick their entire defence, as I said on current form, NI have beaten decent opposition far more often in the past three years than we have. They beat England, who played at the 2006 World Cup, last year. The Spain result was a good one.
But they were also well organised and did what was necessary away to Denmark.
Northern Ireland did not get totally tonked by the likes of Cyprus case closed.
That young 18 year old lad at the back from Man United( on loan to Royal Antwerp) would walk into our team. And I would pick him ahead of Finnan who has been absolute muck in an Irish shirt this season.

And David Healy.... he scores at international level... CONSISTENTLY he has scored almost as many goals as Robbie Keane, despite playing for a country that didn't score at all for nearly two years. That's five for a start, and at least one of their midfielders is worth a try.

Damien Duff hasn't played well for his country for almost three years. When did RObbie Keane last score a goal in a green shirt? Get real yourself.

[Noelys Guitar]

Cannot believe no one has mentioned Kevin Moran. Aldridge stated that Moran was the main motivator in the dressing room when he played. Great player. Tony Grealish also very under rated.

[Paddy Garcia]

Cannot believe no one has mentioned Kevin Moran. Aldridge stated that Moran was the main motivator in the dressing room when he played. Great player. Tony Grealish also very under rated.

I think Moran is very highly rated. Therefore not approporiate to mention him in this thread, as opposed to a lack of recognition for his qualities and contribution.

Agree about Grealish though.

[Lionel Ritchie]

NI have beaten decent opposition far more often in the past three years than we have. They beat England, who played at the 2006 World Cup, last year. The Spain result was a good one.
But they were also well organised and did what was necessary away to Denmark.
Northern Ireland did not get totally tonked by the likes of Cyprus case closed.
.

Somewhat selective case you've made though CTID -I think even NI fans would acknowledge that. in the same time period you're highlighting they've been tanked at home by Poland, ICELAND and Wales and fell apart like an Argos deckchair away to England. Beyond the England win and the draw in Cardiff their campaign was a disappointment.


I'd pick their entire defence...

Tony Capaldi? The same Tony Capaldi who attempted to play a square ball on the edge of his box with four England players in touching distance of him?

Solvent abuse can kill instantly you know;)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Tony Capaldi? The same Tony Capaldi who attempted to play a square ball on the edge of his box with four England players in touching distance of him?


So ? He plays in the lower Division of English football like many of our so-called up and coming talent. He's no worse than some of our back-four who play in the Premiership, John O'Shea springs to mind immediately. English football has some of the worst defending ever seen in Europe. And that's just the Premiership. Fact is Capaldi may be replaced medium term by Jonathan Evans I think his name is, Man United youth player on loan to Royal Antwerp.

NI kept a CLEAN SHEET away from home against Denmark, who are ranked higher than they are.

We conceded FIVE and it should have been more, away from home to Cyprus who are ranked LOWER than we are.

That makes my case for the NI defence. And Iceland are better than Cyprus into the bargain... could it be that Lawrie Sanchez( ex Sligo Rovers manager) is the difference?

[youngirish]

So ? He plays in the lower Division of English football like many of our so-called up and coming talent. He's no worse than some of our back-four who play in the Premiership, John O'Shea springs to mind immediately.
Yeah but he's not young or 'up and coming' he's 25 so what's your point? Tony Capaldi is pure s**te. He's not even a decent Championship defender ffs.


Fact is Capaldi may be replaced medium term by Jonathan Evans I think his name is, Man United youth player on loan to Royal Antwerp.

NI kept a CLEAN SHEET away from home against Denmark, who are ranked higher than they are.

We conceded FIVE and it should have been more, away from home to Cyprus who are ranked LOWER than we are.

That makes my case for the NI defence. And Iceland are better than Cyprus into the bargain... could it be that Lawrie Sanchez( ex Sligo Rovers manager) is the difference?

Jonny Evans a Man U reserve player? Are you for real? We have far more highly rated young players that play regularly for their clubs that don't even get into our squad, nevermind our first team. As for David Healy? We'd be better swapping Keane for Billy Clarke, Anthony Stokes or Shane Long than a proven average (at best) Championship player if we need to try something different. He only scores for NI because everything they do goes through him because they have f**k all else. And he takes their penalties so stop getting carried away with stats. He couldn't score in a whore house at Leeds (he also takes their penalties).

NI are crap. They had a good win against Spain which has given them a much needed boost in confidence in the short term and helped them to draw with a pretty weak Danish team
and beat a rubbish Latvian team. It seems all their previous results are forgotten. Get real ffs. I guarantee the North will be brought crashing down to earth on their travels from March onwards. They haven't the players they are just temporarily punching above their weight in an easy group. This is the reality. We have the players but are playing below the level we should be expected to perform mostly due to mismanagement of the team over the past 4 years and the damage to confidence that's resulted and also not helped by the manager persisting with tried and tested sh*t like JOS and KK. But get this. Jonny Evans and Tony Capaldi aren't the answer.

[gustavo]

Doesnt matter who they play for , the fact is that our four defenders could be playing for Barcelona or Milan and they still wouldnnt look like a cohesive unitl.

[Lionel Ritchie]

So ? He plays in the lower Division of English football like many of our so-called up and coming talent. He's no worse than some of our back-four who play in the Premiership, John O'Shea springs to mind immediately. English football has some of the worst defending ever seen in Europe.
Plymouth Argyle in Englands second flight pay his wages and bigger feckin eejits them. If Capaldi ran a pizzeria and was playing his football on a wednesday at tea-time in the pizza parlour league division 2 -you'd expect him to know to put his foot through the ball when under pressure in the box.

He wouldn't make standby for us -nor should he.

You're still being selective in your assessment of their stats by the way. The only thing they have over us is a coach who earned his stripes ...albeit falteringly. Like our own Mick McCarthy he'd never have been considered for the job had he not played for the team in question. But he's done some good work for them.

[Seano]

John Byrne got 23 caps between 1985 and 1993. Scored 4 goals, including 2 goals against Turkey in Istanbul in 1991 (won 3-1). He played twice after that, both at home to Wales, in 1992 at the RDS (lost 0-1) and in 1993 at Tolka Park (won 2-1).

I remember Kelly coming on as substitute against Norway and obviously scoring against the Brits but that's it.
David Kelly got 26 caps and scored 9 goals. He played in 8 more games after the England game in 1995. Scored a hat-trick on his debut against Israel in 1987 9won 5-0). Played with Walsall, West Ham, Leicester, Newcastle, Wolves, Tranmere, Motherwell and Derry City. I think he played and scored in a Wembley League Cup final for Tranmere. In 2002 His contract at Motherwell was terminated after a dressing room punch up with Terry Butcher who was the manager. He ended up playing for Derry City and I believe his last game was the FAI Cup Final at Tolka Park in 2002.[/QUOTE]

The Dave Kelly hat-trick on his debut against Iseral in 1987 was 24 hours before Gary Mckay scored the winner for Scotland in Sofia, if I remember correctly.

[Metrostars]

For me, David Healy is very much like our David Connolly.

As for Sheridan, he did play an important role in USA 94, starting in the 5 man midfield of Houghton-Keane-Sheridan-Townsend-Staunton against Italy.

[Kingdom]

In the World Cup of 94 Sheridan played a few games and I remember thinking how deadly he was (i was 12). Was it against Norway that he chipped thorsveldt from outside the box only for it to hit the bar?
And I think he hit the bar against the Italians as well?

[greatbleddyman]

Sheridan was unlucky. Talented player playing in a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side.

Is that the ordinary wednesday side with Waddle Sheridan Harkes and Palmer in midfield?

[Fergie's Son]

Waddle was a little past his prime by then though.

Sheridan had a fantastic game against the Italians. People also forget that he was a tough tackling midfielder as well. He won his fair share of balls.

Always thought we could have done more with Sheridan.

[Metrostars]

We could sure do with a Sheridan like player now...

[Lionel Ritchie]

Sheridan was unlucky. Talented player playing in a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side.

Is that the ordinary wednesday side with Waddle Sheridan Harkes and Palmer in midfield?

...and Nigel Worthington at the back. Yes, yes it was.::p

Okay I was a little harsh. I do recall thinking at the time (early 90's) though that it was only a matter of time before Sheridan moved up a rung. Not neccessarily to a top 3 club but maybe to ...Villa, back to Leeds, Everton, Spurs maybe. When he eventually did go ...Oldham I think wasn't it.

[Noelys Guitar]

Sheridan's goal against the Spanish when we got beaten 3-1 was almost as important as McLoughlin's goal against NI in getting us to US94. Sheridan was contemplating a move to Blackpool near the end of his career and asked Cascarino for his thoughts on the proposed move. Cas told him they had a great big dipper!

[fergalr]

Sheridan's goal against the Spanish when we got beaten 3-1 was almost as important as McLoughlin's goal against NI in getting us to US94.
Well remembered! Without Shero's goal that day we would have needed a win in Belfast.

BTW, everlasting shame on the suits who walked out when we went 3 down that day.

[Stuttgart88]

Well remembered! Without Shero's goal that day we would have needed a win in Belfast.

BTW, everlasting shame on the suits who walked out when we went 3 down that day.Well remebered indeed about Sheridan's goal. It was quite obvious at the time to anyone who had his head screwed on, but sadly that didn't actually include all the crowd.

Suits? I was probably at the game in a suit, as I usually headed straight from work to the game. But as far as I could see it was your rank & file fan who was leaving the ground early, not those on a junket.

[NeilMcD]

It was not just suits who walked out I saw the game a few weeks ago and there were many who would consider themselves ordrinary joes etc who were walking out. It was not just the corporates that were walking out at 3-0

[Billsthoughts]

How do you recognise an ordinary Joe?
If someone has to wear a suit for work and then goes to the match after work are they a suit or a real fan?

[jebus]

Sheridan was unlucky. Talented player playing in a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side

I think I'm gonna have to make an off topic point about this, a very ordinary Sheffield Wednesday side, are you joking me? A team that included Woods, Hirst, Waddle, Walker and Bright as well as the likes of Worthington, Anderson, Palmer and Bart-Williams and won the League Cup in 91 whilst getting promoted to the old Division One, got to two finals in 93 and came third behind Dirty Leeds and Man Utd in 92? A team that people still talk to me about as a reason they have always had a liking for the Owls? Ordinary we were not! :)

[Stuttgart88]

are they a suit or a real fan?Are they mutually exclusive?