View Full Version : Clubs make IAG presentations
A face
20/10/2006, 4:31 PM
Clubs make IAG presentations
The FAI have today issued a statement regarding the Independent Assessment Group. All remaining twenty-one eircom League clubs gave presentations to the IAG over three days this week. The purpose of the IAG is to determine which twelve clubs will compete in the new version of the eircom League which will be run by the FAI from 2007.
Clubs will be ranked on marks gained for sporting (50 per cent) and non-sporting criteria (50 per cent) and the one-to-one meetings gave clubs the opportunity to improve the IAG members' understanding of their clubs and their plans for the future in such areas as strategic planning and marketing.
Read more at www.irishfootballonline.com (http://www.irishfootballonline.com/news_story.php?newsid=5588)
I see Niall Quinn isn't mentioned there. Surprise, surprise.
Raheny Red
21/10/2006, 8:45 AM
I see Niall Quinn isn't mentioned there. Surprise, surprise.
He fecked off a long time ago.
geezer
21/10/2006, 9:33 AM
were like.
Galway Utds presentation was excellent i believe with, a dvd at the end featuring the city and county landmarks, links, helicopter views of terryland and their training facilities at drum all delivered with a backing track of music with the song "right here right now" . i also believe they showed full accounts showing minimal deficits and very professional budgets and strategic plans at odds with some finn harps supporters spreading rumours that gufc were overspending which is plainly not correct and evident after last nites performance
Poor Student
21/10/2006, 9:35 AM
were like.
Galway Utds presentation was excellent i believe with, a dvd at the end featuring the city and county landmarks, links, helicopter views of terryland and their training facilities at drum all delivered with a backing track of music with the song "right here right now" .
If that has any impact as to what division a team is placed in then there is something very wrong. I really want to get this over with. It absolutely destroys any enjoyment of the football season.
i also believe they showed full accounts showing minimal deficits and very professional budgets and strategic plans at odds with some finn harps supporters spreading rumours that gufc were overspending which is plainly not correct and evident after last nites performance
As I've said before, the figure of 15k a week running costs came from Galway United, not Finn Harps fans.
geezer
21/10/2006, 9:43 AM
you have me laughing alright and you have a point it would be daft but in some walks of life that are different to government funded institutions people have to push the boat out to achieve things and if this "****e" impresses whats the fai put in front of you, you gotta do everything to achieve where you need to be. it also could clearly demonstrate the difference between professionally run organisations and the "day to day" short term thinking that has clearly affected the league of ireland over the decades
geezer
21/10/2006, 9:48 AM
in fairness includes 3 full time staff and comercial income has increased by 150% since they have come in. 15k a week in comparison to drogs shels and derry is around half what the big four are doing and if any club is to be serious about competing in the new premiership they will need a budget of at least 1million a year, and any new club coming in should be looking at this kind of budget to compete. thats reality harsh but true
GuisaSaigon
21/10/2006, 9:50 AM
If that has any impact as to what division a team is placed in then there is something very wrong. I really want to get this over with. It absolutely destroys any enjoyment of the football season.
I have to agree, but this is way the people who run football in this country have decided to do things so every club can only do their best.
Some people seem to think its inevitable that we are going up but im not so sure.I hope we can get there on merit by finishing 1st or 2nd in the division.
If we finish 3rd, I'd still take it, after 5 years of 1st division hell we want out.
steno
21/10/2006, 10:47 AM
Does anyone know when the FAI are going to announce whos in what division next year?
I think the announcements are in early December Steno.
Terry
21/10/2006, 11:25 AM
I think I read the 18th of december somewhere
harpskid
21/10/2006, 8:01 PM
I think I read the 18th of december somewhere
Ooohhhh that's my birthday - perhaps Delaney will give me promotion to the new Premier Division as a pressie...:D
pineapple stu
21/10/2006, 8:04 PM
I also believe they showed full accounts showing minimal deficits and very professional budgets and strategic plans at odds with some finn harps supporters spreading rumours that gufc were overspending which is plainly not correct and evident after last night's performance
I believe Dublin City gave a similar presentation to the Licencing committee this time last year...
geezer
21/10/2006, 8:10 PM
truly honest student and harps its hard to argue with yee. i hope we dont have to depend on that and that we finish above dundalkand thats still a could possibility despite last nite, but strong rumours persist down here that its a foregone conclusion who will be invited
Conor H
21/10/2006, 11:18 PM
truly honest student and harps its hard to argue with yee. i hope we dont have to depend on that and that we finish above dundalkand thats still a could possibility despite last nite, but strong rumours persist down here that its a foregone conclusion who will be invited
And will we be?
From speaking to few Dundalk fans in Foxs yesterday they pretty muck think unless they come 1st they won't be invited.Last night's result could be disastrous for GUFC.It will give the FAI a major lot of grief if they put us for coming 3rd and Dundalk were left out....if they won the league.
We really have to finish ahead of them IMO simply because i don't trust the FAI and i reckon they'll just put Dundalk up if they win.However if they abide by their own agenda Dundalk can win the league this year and they still won't overtake UTD in the league points total for the last 5 years.
geezer
22/10/2006, 2:00 PM
for john gill and the dundalk club. i can imagine what they are saying to get inside the minds of the dundalk players.. it will really put it up to the fai and with a travelling army like they brought to terryland on a friday evening across the country and a tuff 4 hr trip i think there will be uproar in louth if they are excluded on a presentation and they will have a lot of rite on their side and im sure drogheda from a finance point of view will back them to guarantee massive derby's and interest in louth...interesting times
holidaysong
22/10/2006, 4:28 PM
i think there will be uproar in louth if they are excluded on a presentation and they will have a lot of rite on their side...
Protests in Merrion Square from angry Dundalk fans I would think!
for john gill and the dundalk club. i can imagine what they are saying to get inside the minds of the dundalk players.. it will really put it up to the fai and with a travelling army like they brought to terryland on a friday evening across the country and a tuff 4 hr trip i think there will be uproar in louth if they are excluded on a presentation and they will have a lot of rite on their side and im sure drogheda from a finance point of view will back them to guarantee massive derby's and interest in louth...interesting times
Perhaps those protests should be at Oriel Park, and against those in control of Dundalk FC, who were either too brainless to see that the criteria would almost certainly exclude them and voted for them anyway, or who simply aren't taking the whole process seriously and treating this like any other season. Incidentally, you wouldn't be excluded 'because of a presentation' nor should GUFC be promoted because of it. You'd be excluded because under the detailed criteria for next year, including 30% for the last 4 years of football, you didn't rank high enough.
To be honest I am worried about this process. The FAI simple have to get this right- they have to publish the detail of the scoring or rankings in each and every area so we can see exactly what the story is. Rumours that certain clubs have been guarenteed promotion already mean this process has a bad smell about it but if (and that's a very big if!) the FAI do this correctly and transparenly then no-one can have any complaints, seeing as everybody voted for this!
gael353
22/10/2006, 7:26 PM
were like.
Galway Utds presentation was excellent i believe with, a dvd at the end featuring the city and county landmarks, links, helicopter views of terryland and their training facilities at drum all delivered with a backing track of music with the song "right here right now" . i also believe they showed full accounts showing minimal deficits and very professional budgets and strategic plans at odds with some finn harps supporters spreading rumours that gufc were overspending which is plainly not correct and evident after last nites performance
I take it your the press officer for Galway yea? use the word "believe" all ye like, but i know you are ;) Limericks presentation was delivered on horseback, done to the music of the cranberries, jesus himself made a surprise apperance and said he "believed" that limerick should get a prem invite.
How many tiers of the stand are compleated as of now in Terryland?
Rumours that certain clubs have been guarenteed promotion already mean this process has a bad smell about it
Rumours started by who? It wouldn't be a certain fat manager who's trying to cover his own arse if he doesn't win the league would it?
I assume you're referring to John Gill here? Most of the rumours that GUFC are guarenteed promotion are coming from GUFC supporters to be fair. There are also suspicions that UCD will be shafted as aired many times on this board. I don't think John Gill comes into it- although he has been bleating on about how it would be awful if Dundalk won the league and didn't go up.
Like I say, if the FAI do this in a cloak and dagger manner and don't published detailed scoring in each area then we could easily end up with total farce on our hands. Of course the FAI may decide to do it that way to avoid awkward questions about how club's marks were arrived at, but if they just do this right then they'll be in the clear.
In my opinion this process could lead to one of the biggest scandals in Irish Football history if some of the rumours flying about prove to be correct.
There have been various claims made including:
1. That the first division winners are guarenteed promotion- again, reading the actual criteria reveals that this means relatively little. For instance, Limerick will rank ahead of Galway and Dundalk this year because of their cup performance!
2. That Galway United will definately get promoted regardless of whether they win the league or not. Even if they do, my reading of the league criteria means this makes little sense to me. Their 4 year record is poor and their ranking this year won't be great due to zero cup performance, and it seems very highly unlikely indeed that they could make this up in off the field criteria.
3. That UCD will be relegated because their face doesn't fit. The idea of criteria brought in to make the clubs run themselves better and so on being used to relegate one of the best run clubs in the league makes me sick to be perfectly honest. Especially when they have a massive area to themselves and a new stadium on the way.
DmanDmythDledge
22/10/2006, 9:26 PM
i think there will be uproar in louth if they are excluded on a presentation
Just shows how sad the league as become.
Conor H
22/10/2006, 10:26 PM
There have been various claims made including:
1. That the first division winners are guarenteed promotion- again, reading the actual criteria reveals that this means relatively little. For instance, Limerick will rank ahead of Galway and Dundalk this year because of their cup performance!
2. That Galway United will definately get promoted regardless of whether they win the league or not. Even if they do, my reading of the league criteria means this makes little sense to me. Their 4 year record is poor and their ranking this year won't be great due to zero cup performance, and it seems very highly unlikely indeed that they could make this up in off the field criteria.
3. That UCD will be relegated because their face doesn't fit. The idea of criteria brought in to make the clubs run themselves better and so on being used to relegate one of the best run clubs in the league makes me sick to be perfectly honest. Especially when they have a massive area to themselves and a new stadium on the way.
But we'll be still be ahead of Limercik overall and Harps and Dundalk.I'm aware to finish ahead of Harps on league standings we must finish at least 2 places ahead of yee which i think we will.
Even if that's the case Conor I can't see ye making up enough ground off the pitch on any of the current 11 or Shamrock Rovers to make the top 12.
In most of the off field criteria see here (http://www.galwayunitedfc.ie/events/selection-criteria-for-the-new-fai-premier-league.html) most clubs will probably score quite well so to me Galway really need to win the division and hope one of the 12 I mentioned have fooked up their case completely.
There's no question that Galway United are doing a lot of things right and have a really professional setup and all but looking at the criteria as laid out I don't see anything to convince me that Galway have that much to be optimistic about.
And I wouldn't be so sure ye'll be ahead of us either. We'll have a better mark from the 50% for football, and will do well on infrastructure (as 60% is on future plans) governance and finance (5 years profit in a row, immediate action when things got difficult this year) licensing compliance and even attendance over 3 years and not too bad in the other sections either.
holidaysong
23/10/2006, 9:22 AM
The FAI simple have to get this right- they have to publish the detail of the scoring or rankings in each and every area so we can see exactly what the story is. Rumours that certain clubs have been guarenteed promotion already mean this process has a bad smell about it but if (and that's a very big if!) the FAI do this correctly and transparenly then no-one can have any complaints, seeing as everybody voted for this!
There is a better chance of transparency in the North Korean nuclear programme than there is in the FAI.
They will have to publish a comprehensive document on the scoring/ranking or people will accuse them of just choosing who they want. If we don't get in but it is clear why we didn't then I will accept that. If they just give out a list one day of who got in and who didn't then I'm sure most would agree that it would be completely unacceptable.
Cheers for the very informed post Galway Harps.
The Galway rumours I heard were due to an announcement of an increased
price for season tickets and the "gate price" going up to €15 which is Premier
Division price. Minimum Division 1 Clubs are allowed to charge is €10 for adults.
Have since heard that these were projected increases based on "if we get into
the Premier"
Conor H
23/10/2006, 10:46 AM
Ya they were Ash but Galway Harps is hell bent on showing everyone why GUFC areb't going to be in the Premier.
Dodge
23/10/2006, 10:51 AM
Ya they were Ash but Galway Harps is hell bent on showing everyone why GUFC areb't going to be in the Premier.
In fairness, he's showing reasons why you mightn't be after tons of reasons given by Galway fans why they will be in the Delanyship
harps1954
23/10/2006, 11:02 AM
We all know by now, that 500 points are on offer for on-the-field (50%) and 500 points for off-the-field (50%). If the season were to end at this moment in time (not allowing for results of FAI Cup semis and final) and assuming that second placed in the First (Shamrock Rovers) beats second last in the Premier (Bray Wanderers) in the most pointless play-off match in history, this is how the teams would finish in the on-the-field criteria (maximum of 500 points on offer).
1 Shelbourne 493
2 Derry City 460
3 Cork City 460
4 Longford Town 450
5 Drogheda United 437
6 Bohemains 423
7 St. Patrick's Athletic 407
8 Shamrock Rovers 370
9 UCD 357
10 Sligo Rovers 353
11 Waterford United 340
12 Bray Wanderers 333
13 Finn Harps 283
14 Galway United 277
15 Dundalk 257
16 Limerick 253
17 Cobh Ramblers 250
18 Kildare County 240
19 Kilkenny City 187
20 Athlone Town 187
21 Monaghan United 183
You will now see where teams need to make up points in their off-the-field criteria. Galway seems to be the team everyone is talking about. At this moment in time, for them to get into the Premier, they need to outscore the team that is currently in 12th position (i.e. Bray). Bary currently sit 56 points ahead of Galway. Will Galway make up 56 points (out of 500) on Bray. If so, where is this likely to happen?
I still think the top eight above are certain of their Premier place next season, while positions 16-21 are more than certain of being in the First next season. That means UCD, Sligo, Waterford, Bray, Harps, Galway and Dundalk will fight it out for the remaining four spots. I'm still of the opinion that I had months ago - the 11 teams currently in the Premier will stay there and Shamrock Rovers will be the 12th side. I'd say that the FAI are hoping that Rovers win the 1st Division this year to avoid too many "awkward" questions been asked. Next season's first will be the same as this years, with a new club likely to replace Rovers.
Dodge
23/10/2006, 11:09 AM
And then normal promotion/relegation will see the natural order restored?
Ya they were Ash but Galway Harps is hell bent on showing everyone why GUFC areb't going to be in the Premier.
I'm posting the facts as I see them Conor, and showing why I've reached those conclusions. I realise this will annoy a lot of Galway fans as it's not what they want to hear, but I'll have to live with that (quite literally).
Also- the rumours did not originate from that thread that appeared on Friday- they've been going around for quite some time. To my mind the source of these is that Mr Leeson and co at GUFC who consistently made statement abouts how Genisis where so impressed and how they're the only club with a strategic plan and who're properly run. The former is probably because they only met one club, and the latter is, frankly, a load of ballacks.
i also believe they showed full accounts showing minimal deficits and very professional budgets and strategic plans
A DVD, wooooo!
But seriously, the above is a sample of what bugs me about all the "Galway" talk eminating mostly as GalwayHarps says from Terryland.
The Irish Indo even stated something along the lines that Genesis said Galway were the only club in Ireland who had a strategic plan. Wonder who exactly told them that eh?
As a shareholder of Finn Harps this ****es me off as I was at the club's AGM in 2001 where I was presented with, and still have a copy in a file somewhere, the Finn Harps Strategic Business Plan 2001-2005. This plan was implemented, including reducing debt, bringing in financial controls, getting tax compliant and returning a trading profit in each of those 5 years. At the last AGM this plan was reviewed and another one put forward. Yet Mr Leeson and Galway have a strategic plan since last year and they seem to think they invented the whole concept.
Note to Galway United - you are not the only club with minimal deficits , professional budgets and strategic plans .
So bascially that leaves you relying on the DVD and the "right here, right now". I hope yous allowed for the helicopter in the professional budget!
PS - I have nothing against Galway, think they'd be an excellent addition to the Premier, but lads, seriously, this whole "we've a divine right to be in the Premier cause we're sooo clever and the rest of yis are big thickos" routine is more than a little annoying!
Fivesilver
23/10/2006, 9:05 PM
a dvd . . . city and county landmarks . . . helicopter views . . . all delivered with a backing track of music with the song "right here right now" . . .
In fairness, you have to hand it to the FAI - instead of going with the novel idea of teams being in a given division based on how many games they win, draw and lose, they decided on encouraging this sort of stuff, thus providing us with the funniest post in months. God, you could smell the pride in that. :D
I wonder if it had a car chase and a romantic sub-plot?
If not, why not? :)
geezer
23/10/2006, 9:18 PM
if you read the posts you will find that no gufc poster here feels we have a divine right to be there, far from it we are nervous as hell of another year down in the 1st and also none of us would not be too keen on gaining entry without at least competing on the football front. galway harps is correct in his analysis and gufc have to finish in 1st or at least second to stand any chance of making the cut.... note the word chance.. rumours are rumours and we only post stuff to inform what we are hearing. stuff was also posted under this thread as it was a request to find out any info on how last week went and I posted what i heard nothing more nothing less. as a football fan I want us to do it with football nothing else but we havent made the rules all the clubs made them up albeit with a gun to their heads
Rovers'Til IDie
23/10/2006, 9:33 PM
Apart from all the poindexter statistical analysis, the FAI have a get out clause for picking who the want in 'premiership' (that's what they seem to be calling it :mad: )
Section 4, point 3 of the merger document says,
"In the course of the independent assessment process, IAG members will be obliged to:
Disregard unsolicited applications, approaches and / or material from any source. Any breach of this condition should be reported in a timely fashion to the IAG membership, which can forward its concerns / recommended course of action (including disqualification?) to FAI for its consideration of further action (if required)."
So they'll just say they got unsolicited approaches for the teams they don't want in the premier division.
Sheridan
23/10/2006, 10:08 PM
They'll be soliciting approaches from every club. That just refers to external or premature applications.
Rovers'Til IDie
23/10/2006, 10:40 PM
They'll be soliciting approaches from every club. That just refers to external or premature applications.
Obviously they have solicited approaches from every club, and a doctor can help with 'premature applications'.
The section I'm referring to is about unsolicited applications, approaches and / or material from any source.
if you read the posts you will find that no gufc poster here feels we have a divine right to be there
Apologies so, maybe its just me, but that certainly seems to be the vibe and has been since Genesis called to Terryland. What are at best ill informed remarks in the press about being the only club to have a strategic plan, implying that nobody else has their house in order is a bit hard to take too.
Conor H
23/10/2006, 10:55 PM
Apologies so, maybe its just me, but that certainly seems to be the vibe and has been since Genesis called to Terryland. What are at best ill informed remarks in the press about being the only club to have a strategic plan, implying that nobody else has their house in order is a bit hard to take too.
Wrong again.
They said we were an example of how clubs should operate.They didn't say we were the only one.
Not having a go but was it in ye're 5 year strategic plan to be very short on cash in 2006.....so much so ye'd have to sell yere best players?
Instaed of whining about how Harps had a strategic plan why don't you try and figure out where it went up sh!t creek!
It's no good if it doesn't actually work ya know!
Wrong again.
They said we were an example of how clubs should operate.They didn't say we were the only one.
Not having a go but was it in ye're 5 year strategic plan to be very short on cash in 2006.....so much so ye'd have to sell yere best players?
Instaed of whining about how Harps had a strategic plan why don't you try and figure out where it went up sh!t creek!
It's no good if it doesn't actually work ya know!
You're wrong as well. We sold no one.
And yes, you are having a go so I'll not waste anymore of my time on you as you're doing your best to ruin a good, informative thread.
Conor H
23/10/2006, 11:12 PM
You're wrong as well. We sold no one.
And yes, you are having a go so I'll not waste anymore of my time on you as you're doing your best to ruin a good, informative thread.
Ok loaning...apologies!
I'm not ruining any thread.In fact it went off topic when Mr T went on about GUFC fans saying we had a devine right to be on the Premiership.False by all accounts....we're sweating it but optimistic.
Jerry The Saint
24/10/2006, 9:28 AM
The section I'm referring to is about unsolicited applications, approaches and / or material from any source.
Judging by recent fines, a comment from Scully on eL Weekly that Shamrock has great supporters and would be a good addition to the Premier could be taken as an unsolicited application by the 'Independent' advisory group. :eek:
Conor- Part of the strategic plan was to put in place financial control systems that would spot trouble coming early and take action before it got out of hand. This is exactly what was done. In many, many cases in the past clubs have carried on regardless and run up insane debt levels.
The problems themselves were created by chronic underperformance on the field causing gates to collapse completely- and the best planning in the world can't determine exactly what happens on the field of play. Did Galway United plan the loss to Dundalk?
They said we were an example of how clubs should operate.They didn't say we were the only one.
And maybe Genesis didn't, but Galway United have certainly done their best to give that impression. For instance last week there was a line in the Irish Independent saying that Galway were the only club with a strategic plan followed by a quote from Mr Leeson. In the event that Galway don't go up, it might be time to ask some questions of your own club, rather than blaming Harps fans for pointing out some facts to ye!
John83
24/10/2006, 12:28 PM
There is a better chance of transparency in the North Korean nuclear programme than there is in the FAI.
They will have to publish a comprehensive document on the scoring/ranking or people will accuse them of just choosing who they want. If we don't get in but it is clear why we didn't then I will accept that. If they just give out a list one day of who got in and who didn't then I'm sure most would agree that it would be completely unacceptable.
That has its own problems. Some of the points awarded will be subjective, and any team that missed out by a small margin would be appealing, threatening to sue, etc. in the time-honoured League of Ireland tradition.
pineapple stu
24/10/2006, 12:31 PM
Apart from all the poindexter statistical analysis, the FAI have a get out clause for picking who the want in 'premiership' (that's what they seem to be calling it :mad: )
More to the point, I think there's a rider in there somewhere to the extent that the IAG's* ultimate decision is subject to ratification by the FAI.
* - any FAI grouping which contains the word "Independent" is surely, ipso facto, controlled completely and utterly by John Delaney... Just a little bug bear of mine!
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