We do NOT have a good squad

[an_ceannaire]

Lads will ye take off the green tinted glasses and wake up! What are ye like! Why are Irish people so bloody afraid to be negative! Ye are probably the same clowns who actually APPLUADED them off the pitch in Nicosia!! Unbelievable. Look, we do NOT have a good team.
Shay Given is a class keeper
Steve Finnan is an average full back and nothing more
Richard Dunne is a good strong footballer
Ian Harte is a terrible defender
Stephen Carr is 3 years past his best and a non entity these days
Paul McShane plays ONE good game and he is the new Kevin Moran, oh my God like......!!!!
Andy Reid is fat, one dimensional and over rated. He is a Charlton sub!
Kevin Kilbane is......Kevin Kilbane. I dont need to have a go, we all know.....
Lee Carsely, well is Lee Carsely is the Saviour, God Help us all
John O'Shea is USELESS USELESS USELESS and he is nothing else
Damien Duff is so over rated in this country is sickening. He is a lad with ability but a horrible attitude, hence he left the champions cos he couldnt be arsed fighting for his place and went to the bloody barcodes!!! Duff is a good player, he is NOT a great player atall.
Robbie Keane wrecks my head. He is a striker who thinks he is a bloody winger. Cant head a ball and just goes missing. He has bags of talent but maybe its just a case that he looks at the lads around him, despairs and tries too much. Easily our best outfielder, but he is wasted with Ireland and he does himself few favours.
Aidan McGeady is the great white hope
Jon Douglas....again, ONE game and ye are raving!!! ONE GAME!
Kevin Doyle, good player, but eh, how many goals in how many games??!!
Stephen Elliot, i like him. get him fit and back in the premiership and the future is his.
Clinton..... see Kilbane above....

Ireland are NOT a good team. Not even close, in fact we are muck.
Our manager is a joke and our fans applaud mediocrity and failure.
We are going nowhere quick.
oh and by the way, James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Kenny Miller, Davie Weir, Shaun Maloney and Kris Boyd would all WALK on our team.

[an_ceannaire]

typical of what i expect
A bit of honest negativity and idiots like you cant handle it
oh we should all be happy, everything is great la la la
COP ON! Everything is **** and the sooner people open their fu**ing eyes and see it the better.,
This is the truth, we are SH*T.

[ifk101]

..... James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Kenny Miller, Davie Weir, Shaun Maloney and Kris Boyd would all WALK on our team.

Who???

[Noelys Guitar]

Lads will ye take off the green tinted glasses and wake up! What are ye like! Why are Irish people so bloody afraid to be negative! Ye are probably the same clowns who actually APPLUADED them off the pitch in Nicosia!! Unbelievable. Look, we do NOT have a good team.
Shay Given is a class keeper
Steve Finnan is an average full back and nothing more
Richard Dunne is a good strong footballer
Ian Harte is a terrible defender
Stephen Carr is 3 years past his best and a non entity these days
Paul McShane plays ONE good game and he is the new Kevin Moran, oh my God like......!!!!
Andy Reid is fat, one dimensional and over rated. He is a Charlton sub!
Kevin Kilbane is......Kevin Kilbane. I dont need to have a go, we all know.....
Lee Carsely, well is Lee Carsely is the Saviour, God Help us all
John O'Shea is USELESS USELESS USELESS and he is nothing else
Damien Duff is so over rated in this country is sickening. He is a lad with ability but a horrible attitude, hence he left the champions cos he couldnt be arsed fighting for his place and went to the bloody barcodes!!! Duff is a good player, he is NOT a great player atall.
Robbie Keane wrecks my head. He is a striker who thinks he is a bloody winger. Cant head a ball and just goes missing. He has bags of talent but maybe its just a case that he looks at the lads around him, despairs and tries too much. Easily our best outfielder, but he is wasted with Ireland and he does himself few favours.
Aidan McGeady is the great white hope
Jon Douglas....again, ONE game and ye are raving!!! ONE GAME!
Kevin Doyle, good player, but eh, how many goals in how many games??!!
Stephen Elliot, i like him. get him fit and back in the premiership and the future is his.
Clinton..... see Kilbane above....

Ireland are NOT a good team. Not even close, in fact we are muck.
Our manager is a joke and our fans applaud mediocrity and failure.
We are going nowhere quick.
oh and by the way, James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Kenny Miller, Davie Weir, Shaun Maloney and Kris Boyd would all WALK on our team.

Heard it all before. Pre Giles, Pre Charlton, Pre McCarthy etc etc. This squad is better that many of the squads Giles, McCarthy and Kerr had. Not as good as some of those Charlton and Hand had. Scotland just got beaten by a poor Ukrainian team. They will not qualify for Euro 2006. Watch them lose to Italy and France away. We will beat San marino twice. Get at least 8 points from our games against Wales and Slovakia. And if we can get into contention for second place then anything could happen in the games against the Germans and the Czechs. Staunton is a lucky ****er for still having a job. I don't rate hime but somehow he has survived Cyprus. And lucky ****ers and teams that hang in there always seem to get to championships.

[Kingdom]

I don't think this country is afraid to be negative. I can't assume you live abroad but I suspect it. If anything what gets me down is the constant whinging moaning and generally negative vibes that come about in Ireland.

[hoops1]

Apologies my account was left open in work and one of my colleagues put in that last post.

Worst excuse ever for attacking someone.

Wouldnt be so sure about Weir or Boyd walking into the Irish team
I agree mostly with what your saying if even a liitle forcefully put

[galwayhoop]

Apologies my account was left open in work and one of my colleagues put in that last post.


mine switches off after about 2 mins of inactivity ;) that colleague is a swift little bugger - we should try him out for the national team!!:D

[galwayhoop]

i'll agree with most of that too an_ceannaire. middle of the road players in a mid level teams playing in a grossly over-hyped league (great entertainmaent but more huff and puff than the technical possession football needed in modern game - exclude arsenal BTW). although i think it shows that mcCarthy did a good job and doesn't deserve the vilification received post saipan. can't fully blame the manager because of the limited resources but a top notch manager would definately get more out of them.

[theworm2345]

The reason the squad is bad because Staunton refuses to call up some of the older players who are still in the EPL or still play in the Coca-Cola Championship who can still get it done. He just wants to get the younger guys experience for the 2010 Campaign. This was the stupidest thing I had heard in a long time...until I heard his comments on Cyprus

[murtybyrne]

Kingdom Im Sorry I would have to agree just shocking excuse for attaching someone

There are a small amount of positives to take from the Ireland Team with Mcgeady, I do think Doyle has the potential and ability to play for one of the big teams in England.

Other than that I would have to agree with most of what an ceannaire has said in the first post of the thread we are not a good enough good enough team and that is also shown today with Northern Ireland overtaking us in the FIFA rankings not that I take them that seriously but at this very minute they have got there act together and would be classed a better side.

I have to say in regard to the manager STEPHEN, maybe its the case that his heart is in the right place and he is trying to do what he thinks best but lets be honest he has totally no experience and thats the problem, my beef would be with the FAI for hiring him there the total joke and I suppose always have been but that I suppose will never change.

The only thing that is for sure were in Decline, and its happening much quicker than many would have thought

[murtybyrne]

Kingdom Im Sorry I would have to agree just shocking excuse for attaching someone

There are a small amount of positives to take from the Ireland Team with Mcgeady, I do think Doyle has the potential and ability to play for one of the big teams in England.

Other than that I would have to agree with most of what an ceannaire has said in the first post of the thread we are not a good enough good enough team and that is also shown today with Northern Ireland overtaking us in the FIFA rankings not that I take them that seriously but at this very minute they have got there act together and would be classed a better side.

I have to say in regard to the manager STEPHEN, maybe its the case that his heart is in the right place and he is trying to do what he thinks best but lets be honest he has totally no experience and thats the problem, my beef would be with the FAI for hiring him there the total joke and I suppose always have been but that I suppose will never change.

The only thing that is for sure were in Decline, and its happening much quicker than many would have thought


By the By

My Spelling is shocking also!!!!!!

Should be Attacking not attaching!!

[youngirish]

oh and by the way, James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Kenny Miller, Davie Weir, Shaun Maloney and Kris Boyd would all WALK on our team.
You're either insane, Scottish or have the memory of a goldfish, probably all 3. With posts like these and the NI posts I'm going to have a laugh when Scotland and NI find their level (way down the positions in the qualifying groups) which will happen over the course of qualification. O'Shea keeps Fletcher out of the United team ffs. Says it all really.

[an_ceannaire]

i dont like being this negative, but there is no point deluding ourselves. If we keep setting the bar too high then all we can do is fall. David O'Leary and John Aldridge are both currently available. I dont particularly rate DOL as a manager, but at least the man has experience, CL experience! Stan was the Walsall assistant!!!
Get DOL in ASAP and let Stephen Carr back to Tyneside for good. Somebody needs to sit O'Shea down and have one serious bloody talk with him because since Keano retired he is just sauntering around the place, devil may care, sure i play for Man Yoo, i am above ye all.....
Its fellas like O'Shea who kill me. Kilbane is awful, lets call a spade a spade here lads, but by God he tries. Killer puts on that shirt and he will die for it. O'Shea is the exact opposite.
But as i said, its the fans attitude that kills me. We are great, we have great players, you'll never beat the Irish, sure remember 1988 etc etc.....oh my God! What I wouldnt give to get Roy in as manager, i know its not a possibility, maybe ever, but by God can you imagine them doing a Nicosia knowing he was waiting in the dressing room for them!! They would all have legged it with ten minutes to go straight to the nearest bloody airport and got the first flight to Brazil! Best bloody place for most of them.

[cavan_fan]

i'll agree with most of that too an_ceannaire. middle of the road players in a mid level teams playing in a grossly over-hyped league (great entertainmaent but more huff and puff than the technical possession football needed in modern game - exclude arsenal BTW). although i think it shows that mcCarthy did a good job and doesn't deserve the vilification received post saipan. can't fully blame the manager because of the limited resources but a top notch manager would definately get more out of them.

This grossly overhyped league we keep hearing about (the Premiership). The only real way of comparing leagues is the Champions League. The Premiership has produced finalists the last 2 years and so far in the Champions League this year their teams have won 8 drawn 1 and lost 1 (ironically Arsenal!).

I'll accept the argument that the Spanish League is probably better and even possibly the Italian League (though results in Europe wouldnt back this up). However there is no way any other league in the world is stronger. So if you have a team made up of players form at worst the 3rd best league in the world, you'd have to say they should be beating teams made up of players from the Cypriot and Greek League.

[hoops1]

You're either insane, Scottish or have the memory of a goldfish, probably all 3. With posts like these and the NI posts I'm going to have a laugh when Scotland and NI find their level (way down the positions in the qualifying groups)

Scotland in particular and NI have historically had better teams than us
as one poster said they would see the recent events as natural order
being restored

[an_ceannaire]

u think John O'Shea is better than Darren Fletcher? Well i think ure wrong, i think Fletcher is LESS **** than o' shea basically!!McFadden is far superior to both

[Prof Hoffman]

That team is good enough to win and qualify for tournaments. All they need is a positive attitude. People coming on whinging and moaning don't help at all. The same people who are whinging and moaning about everything. Probably the same people who moan and groan about the government, then refuse to vote. Go into the pubs, knock back 10 pints, and have a good old moan about everything. Wake up in the morning looking for something to moan about. Useless people, good for nothing - except whinging and moaning.

[youngirish]

We should be by far good enough to qualify for major tournaments. We have a first 11 that all plays in the Premiership (and yes the Premiership is one of the top european leagues if Champions league results are anything to go by). Many of our players are or have been consistently good performers in the recent past for their teams in the premiership (Given, Duff, Keane, Finnan, Dunne, Doyle) so they should be up to the task of beating Cyprus.

To suggest we are worse than the Scots in terms of individual players is ludicrous. Most of their players play in the Scottish league which is pure s**te. The ones who have tried or do play in the Premiership were proven to not be up to the task (Ferguson and Fletcher) or are average at best (Mc Fadden). Kenny Miller couldn't even set the world alight at Wolves in the Championship.

Anyway everyone forgets Scotland were absolutely atrocious only a year or so ago under Vogts with most of the same players. We simply have a similar problem now with Staunton. If we could get a manager of similar quality to Walter Smith we would easily qualify from our group IMO. With Staunton we'll go nowhere.

[an_ceannaire]

Lets combine a team from the two and see who has more players, and for gods sakes, be honest and not just green, and lets have no anti rangers sh*te ok

For me

Given,
Finnan,
Dunne,
Weir,
Caldwell,
Duff,
Ferguson,
Fletcher,
Keane,
Miller,
McFadden

McGeady, Maloney, Carsley, Doyle, McShane and Gordon as main subs, Weir as captain.
And DEFINETLY Walter Smith as manager

[hoops1]

Let me guess your an Everton fan?

[John83]

u think John O'Shea is better than Darren Fletcher? Well i think ure wrong, i think Fletcher is LESS **** than o' shea basically!!McFadden is far superior to both
Actually, he pointed out that Sir Alex Ferguson seems to think O'Shea is better than Fletcher. Most people seem to agree that neither is particularly good.

There's far too much negative feeling about our squad flying about. Sure, we're not France, but there are relatively few teams with substantially better squads than us. Sure, Duff's no world-beater, but he's certainly a match for Joe Cole, and maybe for Robben (who was far and away Holland's best player at the last WC). Mourinho thought as much anyway.

Finnan is average is he? He seems to be good enough for Liverpool though, in spite of a fair bit of competition for his place over the past couple of seasons.

We lose a couple of games and suddenly the players are rubbish. :rolleyes:

[an_ceannaire]

Nope, i am a Shels fan, and if i had to pick a foreign team it would be Celtic. No allegiance atall to Everton or any other English team. But I presume you took that because I have Weir as captain? I am a firm believer than defenders and centre mf's make the best captains and weir would JUST get the nod over Dunnie on experience alone. As for Walter Smith, no one on earth would have "stan not the man " over him as manager

[NeilMcD]

Why combine both teams they have their team we have ours. Some people like to be pessimistic and some like to be optimistic. However no matter what your viewpoinnt, calling people muppets and making general abusive statements about fellow posters is never a good thing. YOu have some valid point an ceannaire but are ruined by your abusive nature which makes anyone a loser in any debate.

[John83]

Why combine both teams they have their team we have ours. Some people like to be pessimistic and some like to be optimistic. However no matter what your viewpoinnt, calling people muppets and making general abusive statements about fellow posters is never a good thing. YOu have some valid point an ceannaire but are ruined by your abusive nature which makes anyone a loser in any debate.
Well said.

[an_ceannaire]

Neil i never abused anyone personally, well no fans anyways. If your talking about the players, well i have no sympathy. Have a look at John O'Sheas bank balance and compare it to mine and see if he cares!!!! I do however hate this Irish attitude of "dheara sure, they did their besht!"
its horse sh*t and ever since Roy departed it seems to be creeping back in. Sure leave Stan alone, he was a great player......SO WHAT! He is a terrible manager, Delaney is a joke of a CEO and players like O'Shea and the other jokers are just taking us all for an emotional train wreck and they dont care because they have the page 3 stunners and the millions in the bank. God bless the days we have 11 players on the pitch who would die for that shirt. You only had to see the look on Aldo and Ronnies face on TV3 after Nicosia to see the hurt they felt, not like a certain Mr O'Shea! And the IDIOTS who applauded them off!!

[NeilMcD]

I dont say leave him alone, I think leave his family along would be correct. I agree with you we have some average players and most people here agree with you. But we dont have as bad a team as other would suggest. I think we have a very poor manager who is very in experienced and should never have got the job in the first place.


YOu have just called fans muppets. YOu start your post saying you did not abuse any fans and now you have called a load who went out there and paid their cash idiots.

[gustavo]

Sigh , games arent won on paper , they could have 11 better players than us but if we had the right tactics and mentality we could beat them , All this who would get in who's team is pointless.

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=an_ceannaire;558207]Lads will ye take off the green tinted glasses and wake up! What are ye like! Why are Irish people so bloody afraid to be negative! Ye are probably the same clowns who actually APPLUADED them off the pitch in Nicosia!!

[an_ceannaire]

Yes Neil and i stand by that completely, what i am saying is i didnt insult anyone here personally. But i do completely abhorr the idiots who did clap that disaster off the pitch in nicosia, they are why we are how we are, because the players can get away with it, and they know it. Ride the storm for a week, put in a good effort against the Czechs and all the lads will come on board again! Waahheeeyy we're all going to heaven, waaheeyy Ted !
I didnt pick and person out personally, but as a collective, those people who applauded are as much to blame as any John O'Shea or Steve Staunton.
(what are you an about me picking on someones family?!)
Give me Tom Humphries over Gerry McDermott any day!

[hoops1]

Some on here are a bit over sensitive!

[galwayhoop]

i'll tell ye a story:

when the story broke that roy keane was coming home from saipan there was a report on sky news (i know it's not the guardian but anyhow) at the end of which they cut to paddy o'reilly's pub in rypongi where they interviewed an eegit in irish jersey, stupid hat and cheesey smile. when they asked her what she thought she said :
' arry sure we'll have the craic anyway for the few weeks '
with that she waved her arms in the air and started singing 'olé, olé, olé' and the whole pub joined in.

moral:
a lot of people in this country are too willing to accept mediocricy and happily jolly along on the great craic element.

i shouted at the TV wake up!: anyone who knows football knew that our realistivc chances of progression to the semi-final or further in that tournament left in saipan. although what followed was a credit to the lads who were left and the manager who all pulled together full of pride and battled. main leaders in that team: niall quinn, gary breen and gary kelly and along with manager mick mcCarthy.

our current crop seem unable or unwilling to muster the pride and spirtit of the vintage of 2002.


the point here is that we have an average team made up of average players who play in an overhyped league combined with a total lack of ambition or hunger from these over payed so-called super stars. more interested in their colourful boots, sponsorship deals and fancy haircuts. not a real man among them - exceptions: richie dunne and shay given.

england have the so-called best players from the best teams in this league and still looked useless in the world cup. and very very average since then.

who got to the world cup final: france and italy - probably not the most gifted teams in the tournament but teams who play with pride and passion and most of all have a will to and know how to win.

[cavan_fan]

the point here is that we have an average team made up of average players who play in an overhyped league combined with a total lack of ambition or hunger from these over payed so-called super stars. more interested in their colourful boots, sponsorship deals and fancy haircuts. not a real man among them - exceptions: richie dunne and shay given.

england have the so-called best players from the best teams in this league and still looked useless in the world cup. and very very average since then.

who got to the world cup final: france and italy - probably not the most gifted teams in the tournament but teams who play with pride and passion and most of all have a will to and know how to win.

Who are these people who are overhyping the Premiership? Most people would agree that it is probably the second best league in the world. Even if Sky for commercial reasons proclaim it the best league in the world it's not that much of an exaggeration.

Of the French team that played in the World Cup Final 3 played in the Premisership and 2 had played in the Premiership and these 5 included most of their most important players (Vieira, Henry, Makelele, Gallas).

I know it's trendy to knock the Premiership but if we had a team of players from Serie A we'd all think we were doing well.

[geysir]

YOu have some valid point an ceannaire but are ruined by your abusive nature which makes anyone a loser in any debate.
I only found one valid point "Shay Given is a class goalkeeper"
was there more?

[galwayhoop]

the premiership as a whole is over hyped - outside the top 4 teams liverpool, man u, arsenal and chelsea (these are good teams) the rest is average and not much better than that on offer in contintential europe (and i am excluding spain and italy from this). blackburn and reading and sheff utd could be beaten by greek or israeli opponents and no-one would think much of it.

i've said this on another thread but how many irish players would make it on a premiership 11. in 2002 we had 3 from our WC squad in the offical one, this year we have none. do we have any player who would figure in a realistic top 50 world player list or even a top 50 european list and i mean a list made up from non english journalists! the answers are no.

paint it how you want - true we have a player at liverpool and one at united but they are nowhere near being their top players - the rest of our squad are average.

[as_i_say]

irish fans in general are not the booing type but if i paid a lot of cash to go over to cyprus to watch that muck performance and dire attitude you can be dam sure that i'd have no problem with fans booing. and besides its fans that go to away games that are a credit to the team with their support and attitude for the most part. I'm not one of these btw, dont have the cash!

[cavan_fan]

Seem to have the same discussion on 2 threads alright.

It's easy to say the Premiership is crap except for the top 4 but all leagues are the same. Of course Reading are weaker than Man Utd but are they weaker than Levante??

On the point about the top 50 in the world, I think we'd have one player (Given assuming you have 4 goalies).

But most people would have probably 5 or so from Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Italy, France, Spain, England.

The point is that most of what should be our peers (Sweden, Romania, Belgium etc) would have no more than one player too. At the moment our peers are Scotland and NI and they wouldnt have anyone within a mile of a top 50.

So again why are we a weak team?

[an_ceannaire]

Well said. Totally agree.
Ireland as a nation accepts mediocrity and celebrates in Eurovision victories.
Roy Keane summed everything up and was berated by 50% of the people in this country.
We have a serious "ah sure its only a bitta craic" attitude problem in this country and until that is addressed we are going nowhere as a nation not to mind a football team.

[NeilMcD]

I never said that you mentioned Stauntons Family that was in relation to journalists bringing Stauntons family into it. You just misunderstood me there, just a bit of a mix up.

[galwayhoop]

On the point about the top 50 in the world, I think we'd have one player (Given assuming you have 4 goalies).

At the moment our peers are Scotland and NI and they wouldnt have anyone within a mile of a top 50.

So again why are we a weak team?

given is a brillant keeper granted but top 4 in the world i don't think so. he would only be pushing for top 4 in the premiership with cech, van de sar and lehmen so he is by no way a given (sorry about the pun) for world top 4 keepers.

you say that our peers are NI and Scotland and i say this is the answer to your final question

[youngirish]

Given was in the Premiership team of the season last year ahead of the likes of Cech and Van De Sar and is a better keeper than both no matter what the s**te tabloid media claims. If Given had Chelsea's defence in front of him he'd never concede. He is miles better than Lehman btw who is dodgy as f**k.

Of the current team Carr, Finnan, Duff and Given have all been in the Premiership select 11 in the last few seasons so we should really be doing better than NI, Wales and Scotland.

[gustavo]

Given was in the Premiership team of the season last year ahead of the likes of Cech and Van De Sar and is a better keeper than both no matter what the s**te tabloid media claims. If Given had Chelsea's defence in front of him he'd never concede. He is miles better than Lehman btw who is dodgy as f**k.

Of the current team Carr, Finnan, Duff and Given have all been in the Premiership select 11 in the last few seasons so we should really be doing better than NI, Wales and Scotland.

Do you really really believe those statements?

[youngirish]

Do you really really believe those statements?

Yes I do believe he's better than Lehman and so do the professional players in the Premiership judging from the team of the season last year. Are you one of these heads that believes just because he's playing for a better team he must be a better player? What do you base that on? A few good games in the Champions League last season? How long have you been watching football? He was terrible for Arsenal in previous seasons. Wenger dropped him on numerous occasions and was trying to get rid of him at one point. How quickly people forget.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah but youngirish you did say if he was playing behind the Chelsea defence that he would never condede which is a foolish statement.

[Billsthoughts]

Are you one of these heads that believes just because he's playing for a better team he must be a better player? What do you base that on? .

Well taking into account the ambition of the better club you would think they would be looking for the best goalkeeper on offer? and taking into account the ambition of the player you would think he would want to play at the highest level available to him?
So that is what I would base it on.
Also you could use the exact same statement bout Lehman being dropped and apply it to Given.
I do however agree with you that if Given had the chelsea defence in front of him he would never concede a goal.

[John83]

Yeah but youngirish you did say if he was playing behind the Chelsea defence that he would never condede which is a foolish statement.
Or an exaggeration for effect. :rolleyes:

[youngirish]

Well taking into account the ambition of the better club you would think they would be looking for the best goalkeeper on offer? and taking into account the ambition of the player you would think he would want to play at the highest level available to him?

Yeah so Van De Sar was pure s**te when he was playing for Fulham but now he's brilliant because he plays for United? Tim Howard and Fabien Barthez were brilliant also were they when playing for United? Much better than Given.

I hate that British media bulls**t attitude that the better clubs have all the best players in every position. Rubbish. All their players played for poorer clubs at some earlier stage in their careers anyway. And many will be playing for poorer clubs in the not too distant future again. If all their players were better in every position they would never be beaten by the lesser clubs. The best clubs usually have more world class players than the lesser clubs (who still often might have one or two) and a number that are no better and sometimes worse than what's available to the rest (JOS being a perfect example).



Also you could use the exact same statement bout Lehman being dropped and apply it to Given.

No you couldn't. When are we talking about exactly? About 5 years ago?


Or an exaggeration for effect. :rolleyes:

Yeah I thought that was obvious. Some people on this site are overly pedantic.

It is no more foolish however than the Lehman is better than Given statement when Given has been voted the best keeper in the Premiership twice while Lehman wasn't even getting his game regularly for Arsenal up until last season.

[cavan_fan]

I think the original point here was that our squad was not so good that we should be surprised we dont qualify.

In terms of qualityof footbal I think the only team that have a significantly better quality of player in Europe are:

Italy
France
Germany
Holland
Spain
England
Portugal
Czech Republic(?)

Now you could argue our relative squad strength against:

Belgium, Poland, Croatia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Serbia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Russia, Greece, Turkey, Israel.

That means we have a squad somewhere between the 9th and 23rd best in Europe. Thats a team which should have a good chance of qualifying.

What we are missing is

An onfield leader
A tactical plan
Coaching
Commitment

So I dont agree we have poor players, I think we have a very poor team.

[Billsthoughts]

if given is so great how come no big club has ever come in for him? thats the point I am making.
and I dont think there was ever a doubt over Van De Saars (formerly of juve and Ajax and WC and Euro Semi Finalists Holland) class. The Given Lehman comparison still stands. your on the internet look it up:rolleyes: And Tim Howard was given a chance at united, found wanting and then gotten rid of. Barthez won a WC and a European Cup and has a runners up medal from the last WC. Shay Given has won what exactly?

[eirebhoy]

Do you really really believe those statements?
I think Lehmann's a terribly overrated keeper. He makes more mistakes in a season than Given has made in his career. :)

[an_ceannaire]

Are u having a laugh! you put us level with Sweden!! Oh lads, the naievety and sheer stupidity of some in this country is quite sad really. Sweden are on a different planet to us. Our level is Wales, Norn Iron, Cyprus, Belguim etc etc.....Portugal Sweden Denmark are way ahead of us now.