Reality Czech....

[Billsthoughts]

We got one point from a possible 9 from our first 3 games.
That was 2 points thrown away in what was a very winnable game last nite.
Staunton is still the crap manager who presided over a 5-2 defeat to cyprus.
This draw is the worst result possible. We didnt win so it didnt get our qualification back on track. We didnt get badly beaten so staunton still has a job this morning. Look forward to 4 more years of hard luck stories and moral victories and watchin major tournaments on the telly.
Staunton out and Delaney out.

[drummerboy]

Agree totally with above sentiments. Back to the days of MORAL victories.

[dfx-]

We got one point from a possible 9 from our first 3 games.
Staunton is still the crap manager who presided over a 5-2 defeat to cyprus.
This draw is the worst result possible. We didnt win so it didnt get our qualification back on track. We didnt get badly beaten so staunton still has a job this morning. Look forward to 4 more years of hard luck stories and moral victories and watchin major tournaments on the telly.
Staunton out.

Hurrah, I'm not the only one!:cool:

[kingp35]

I dont think fans are that stupid to think that all is well now after a draw. Pride has been restored but I dont think anything has changed. It was Douglas and Carsley in midfield that made the difference last night because he actually had a balanced midfield for the first time in a long time and is why we had a decent result.

Fact is that Stan is still out of his depth and last night has changed nothing.

[Billsthoughts]

Both these players were available against cyprus.

[Reality Bites]

Last Night was a Bad result, to concede just after scoring is not good enough.. Stan is still not the man going forward his stubborn attitude towards Carsley was outrageously highlighted last night..Football yes has a lot to do with skill and talent but more importantly attitude and tactics which are the managers Job, Stan stumbled upon the latter, he lacks Charisma and Astute tactical awareness..My Guess on this one is that a fairly Big Name will be appointed in the guise of a Consultant fairly shortly, but Stan will see out this campaign.. The Plus from last night for me was that given the proper motivation and do or die attitude, Ordinary players can for 90 minutes be Extraordinary.. but its down to the Manager to bring out the best in his charges.

[mjpcc]

Have to agree. But this has been going on since the last world Cup campaign.

You go to or watch games hoping for good performances and most of the time come away with that nasty feeling in the pit of your stomach that your had been watching a team that could'nt care less. Every so often (rarely) there would be a performance to bring you back from the brink. For example, France in Paris in the last campaign, Germany in Stuttgart and now last night.

But will they go back to the old ways and Fcuk up again. I expect they will beat San Marino home and away but I've no confidence they will consistantly perform throughout the campaign.

That's all I ask - that after watching every game I believe they tried 100%.

What will we see next I wonder.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Concur.

Our qualification campaign is still holed below the water line before halloween.

I'm pleased we weren't beaten last night but little has changed.

We're still stuck with Stan (more the knave than the fiend) and in particular Delaney. Listening to Delaneys weasel words on 5-7 live last night was galling. This situation is largely of his making and no matter what way it was put to him he wouldn't give an unequivocal backing to Stans position.
The proverbial bilge rat getting ready to jump ship.

Haven't heard him today but no doubt he "feels completely vindicated" or somesuch sh1te in Stans appointment and sure isn't everything grand and we're all off to South Africa in 4 years.:rolleyes:

Langball.

[Noelys Guitar]

Last nights game and Ireland under Staunton in general reminds me a bit of Middlesboro's run in the Eufa cup last season. According to Southgate the improvement in boro's form and good run in the Eufa cup came about despite McClaren. And had everything to do with the input of the senior players. They (senior players) held a meeting after a hammering (I think) by Aston Villa and things improved vastly after that. They realised that Gibson would not sack McClaren and decided to take things into their own hands. A lot like Dunne and Kilbane suggesting the inclusion of Carsley.

[Colie]

Last nights game and Ireland under Staunton in general reminds me a bit of Middlesboro's run in the Eufa cup last season. According to Southgate the improvement in boro's form and good run in the Eufa cup came about despite McClaren. And had everything to do with the input of the senior players. They (senior players) held a meeting after a hammering (I think) by Aston Villa and things improved vastly after that. They realised that Gibson would not sack McClaren and decided to take things into their own hands. A lot like Dunne and Kilbane suggesting the inclusion of Carsley.That's pretty interesting.

Still don't think we have a hope in hell of qualifying but 6 points in the next 2 & at least for a game or 2 it'll look like we're there or there abouts.

I can't envisage any ticketing problems for Crokers.......

[Billsthoughts]

Irish Independent
Reality Czech

- Despite euphoria, we have just one point out of a possible nine
- Draw makes collapse against Cyprus all the more reprehensible
- It's five years since Ireland have won a game of any substance

FOOTBALL parlance occasionally suggests that you're only as good as your last game. League tables tend to look at things differently.

And that was the sobering reality which the Irish team woke up to yesterday after their exploits against the Czech Republic the night before.

With Czech boss Karel Brueckner admitting that he was relieved to leave Dublin with a draw, it's clear that - four-year plan or not - Steve Staunton's side have the ability to compete for a place in the top two of their European Championship qualifying group.

And that's what makes last Saturday's humbling collapse in Cyprus so frustrating and infuriating.

Now, there's a certain sense of basking in the glow of a spirited performance even if the pleasure was borne out of the fact that the bar of expectation was dropped so low after Nicosia.

Pitiful

But when the squad meet up again for the San Marino game next month, the most recent result won't matter a jot.

At that stage, it will be time to reflect on our status in the group to date and the pitiful tally of one point from a possible nine is a far from satisfactory return.

The current standings do not make for pleasant reading, with Ireland second from bottom, just ahead of San Marino and behind Wales and Cyprus.

Even further ahead are Germany, the Czech Republic and even Slovakia despite the fact that their manager Dusan Galis quit after Wednesday's drubbing at the hands of the Germans.

Transformed

For most of this week, it looked like Staunton would be the Group D manager out of a job. A draw against the Czechs has been enough to save him. However, it certainly doesn't mean he has been transformed into a tactical genius overnight, especially when one considers that the team he picked was, in effect, thrust upon him due to a combination of injuries and suspension.

Handing Paul McShane his debut in the centre of defence may seem like an inspired decision, but with Richard Dunne suspended and Andy O'Brien injured, Staunton had no choice but to pick him.

Similarly, his hand was forced with regard to moving John O'Shea back into the centre of defence, another switch which worked out.

Indeed, Wednesday's match has thrown up as many questions as definite answers about the manager.

Why did Staunton only realise on Tuesday that Lee Carsley was the man he needed in central midfield?

Why did Kevin Kilbane play in the centre of the park against Cyprus and not Jonathan Douglas?

Why did it take widespread national criticism to provoke a passionate response from the players, when it should be expected in every game?

So this is no time for back-slapping. However, the FAI's chief executive John Delaney was doing just that when he spoke after the game.

Relieved that he could now avoid having to discuss his manager's future, Delaney was more upbeat than a one-point hual out of a possible nine would justify.

"Everybody has been hurting this week," he said. "I'm thrilled because we got the reaction and the performance we were looking for."

What we didn't get is the result that we needed. Once again, we're falling into the trap of being satisfied with a home draw in a game that at the end of the campaign we will look back upon as one that should have been won.

It's five years now since Ireland won a game of any substance - the famous 1-0 win over Holland courtesy of Jason McAteer's brilliant strike at Lansdowne Road.

Kevin Kilbane's goal on Wednesday night was eerily similar and the source was a player who, similar to McAteer at that time, has his fair share of critics.

However, there was no similar victory as Ireland predictably conceded an equaliser. We just can't hold on to a lead nowadays.

Infamous

In the keynote games of the World Cup qualifying campaign, the only one we actually fell behind in was the defeat to France and there was no coming back from that. Meanwhile, leads were relinquished on the road against Switzerland and Israel and, most infamously, Ireland also squandered a two-goal advantage at home to Israel.

Similarly, in the previous European Championship qualifying campaign, we looked to be on the way to a Lansdowne Road victory against Russia only for the concession of a second-half strike which restored parity for the visitors.

To be fair to Staunton, he was essentially making that point by refusing to be too cheerful after Wednesday's draw.

The collective message from the camp is that we should have won, and Paul McShane spoke impressively when conveying that very same message.

The general point, however, is that while all the injuries admittedly made the situation very difficult, a draw at home to the Czechs is the least we should expect, particularly when they were more than happy to settle for it. There's not much logic in celebrating the result which the opposition wanted.

Clearly, Brueckner feels that the Irish are formidable enough opponents to warrant being treated with respect. Therefore, while the performance of Staunton's charges on Wednesday deserves massive credit, it still isn't enough to erase the memory of Nicosia.

It's unfortunate that none of the players who were involved in Cyprus decided to speak after the Czech game.

It seems as though they've taken some of the criticism pretty hard even if in the immediate aftermath Robbie Keane and Damien Duff both accepted that they would have to take it.

Sure, in the whole circus the line was crossed on a couple of occasions, but all involved must realise that, ironically, the quality of performance against the Czechs makes the Cypriot collapse all the more reprehensible.

We could be contenders to qualify for Euro 2008 if all involved had done a professional job in Cyprus.

We could be talking about an exciting two-year plan rather than having to resort to seeking refuge in a four-year one, one which in reality is dependent on far too many variables.

Excuses

Instead, we are left in an ominous-looking qualifying position. And that is not down to injuries, for on Wednesday when the chips were down Ireland proved they had the strength of character to overcome such obstacles.

So don't get caught up in the excuses because it was complacency and bad decisions that has left us here. Nothing else.

The challenge now is to build up some momentum and clamber out of this messy situation. Lest the Irish camp forget, it's a mess which is of their own doing.

[greendeiseboy]

Agree fully - thr ole ole ole brigade are back in force - the ones that no f.a. about football but think that any kind of result or moral victory is an achievement.

its time the real footfall fan got their voices heard and not have to put with this bullsh!t.

This was an ok result in the context but as regards putting us back on the world football map as a force and moving us up the rankings to improve our seeding prospects was another abject failure.

[Stuttgart88]

the ole ole ole brigade are back in force - the ones that no f.a. about football but think that any kind of result or moral victory is an achievement.

its time the real footfall fan got their voices heard and not have to put with this bullsh!t.

This was an ok result in the context but as regards putting us back on the world football map as a force and moving us up the rankings to improve our seeding prospects was another abject failure.

Ole Ole brigade my arse.

Who says we're now back on the football map as a force?

You said it yourself: "in context". Nothing I've read about Wednesday has been anything but "in context".

And anyway, "real football fans" are rarely ultra objective about their team. By definition they're subjective. The only "Ole Ole's" I heard on Wednesday were when we were winning 1-0. I didn't hear anyone celebrating the draw.

I think a fair analysis is that it was a decent performance, possibly deserving of a win but not ruthless enough in capitalising on the position or taking our chances. In the context of 4 consecutive defeats it restored some pride. We learnt that a balanced team, even shorn of some of its better players, if set out well can compete with good teams but sadly this merely served to highlight the fundamental errors that had been made up until now. Given the depths we'd sunk to in comparison this is a positive. Paul McShane's debut was definitely something to feel positive about and was a privilege to watch.

I defy anyone to disagree with the above paragraph and to label me or anyone who supports the above as anything but a real fan of Ireland.

[Over the post]

I think things will improve from now although the home draw against the Czechs only looks good in the light of the Cyprus debacle.

I think that one of the key factors in our poor performances of late is the club form of key players. Dunne was huge for his club last season, but the Man City defence has looked shaky so far this autumn. Keane was banging them in for Spurs before the summer but his club have also underwhelmed so far this season. For various reasons Duff hasn't had a decent run of form for a while now. Hopefully this situation will improve and with people like the Reids getting over their injuries/fit again and the Irish contingent at Sunderland getting regular football, we should be able to approach the next few games with greater confidence.

Mind you, Stan still needs an assistant/mentor and the FAI need to stop taking the p¡ss

[zinedineontour]

We got one point from a possible 9 from our first 3 games.
That was 2 points thrown away in what was a very winnable game last nite.
Staunton is still the crap manager who presided over a 5-2 defeat to cyprus.
This draw is the worst result possible. We didnt win so it didnt get our qualification back on track. We didnt get badly beaten so staunton still has a job this morning. Look forward to 4 more years of hard luck stories and moral victories and watchin major tournaments on the telly.
Staunton out and Delaney out.

we also got the best performance from the international side in qualifying games since holland ...

[Billsthoughts]

the holland game was a fantastic result but a great performance? I dont think so. and it was a few days before that we played so awfully against cyprus. and it was this set of players that has lost 4 games in a row. and this same manager. can anyone who beleives things are all grand again and staunton should be given a chance refrain from comin on here crying and moaning the next time we get trounced due "defensive errors". Cause with games to come agaisnt Slovakia and Czech Republic away and germany at home its still on the cards.

[greendeiseboy]

Ole Ole brigade my arse.

Who says we're now back on the football map as a force?

The only "Ole Ole's" I heard on Wednesday were when we were winning 1-0. I didn't hear anyone celebrating the draw.

I defy anyone to disagree with the above paragraph and to label me or anyone who supports the above as anything but a real fan of Ireland.

think you're slightly misrereading what i've said - the ole ole brigade are the ones who in the Charlton era sat at home or in the pub shouting on the team. as soon as things went wrong or down hill they were nowhere to be seen, wouldn't have a clue who half the team were, just jumped on the p!$$ -up bandwagon.

[Stuttgart88]

ok, fair enough but I'm not sure on what basis you say the ole ole brigade is back in force.

What I would call the Ole Ole brigade (flag waving mate's girlfriends!) probably didn't even know we had 2 games this week but they'd be the first in the pub for a World Cup last 16 game.

Last week was such a tramatic week for Irish fans that just about any reaction to Weds night is understandable.

I referred to it in another thread, but when I saw the team bus driving down Haddington Road at 5.40pm I nearly got a lump in my throat.

[greendeiseboy]

[QUOTE=Stuttgart88;555317]ok, fair enough but I'm not sure on what basis you say the ole ole brigade is back in force.

we'll wait and see their reaction when we thrash san marino!!!!!!!

the upshot of the whole week is as has been stated by many on this site is that after 3 matches we have one point albeit that point was from one of the group favourites but we were at home.

the performance was uplifting and does give hope but has basically put us back 4 years before we can realistically get into another major competition final - every manager since charlton left has used the rebuilding excuse - mc carthy, kerr and now staunton - how long does it take?

[Stuttgart88]

Really interesting article here from James Lawton, purely in the context of England's last two games, but you could virtaully apply the same comments to us:

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article1865302.ece