Republic V North

[an_ceannaire]

For the first time in my 27 years, i reckon if we played the Nordies in a two leg play off, we would get done. Anybody care to disagree?? I would swap Robbie Keane for Healy any day. Robbie is no captain. Dunne should have the honour. Adn dont get me started on Duff, over rated beyond comprehension.

[endabob1]

Keane is a much more accomplished player than Healy, it comes down to the old Class & Form argument. As for the captaincy, I thought he did well last night, I do prefer a centre half or central midfielder to be captain as they're in a better position to see the whole game.
Thought Duff was one of the best players on the park, second half especially, delivered a few good balls and when he ran at the full back he created havoc, only slight complaint would be that he didn't do it/get the chance to do it enough.
Northern Ireland are in a good vein of form but before Spain they were in crisis after losing 3-0 at home to Iceland there was the sort of disquiet that we had afetr Cyprus, now Lawrie is a hero again.....
I'd still fancy us to beat them over 2 legs.

[Paddy Garcia]

The value of the Republic squad must be ten times that of the North. With decent management we would beat them.

[an_ceannaire]

Value Schmalue! We still have any amount of passengers, O'Shea, Reid etc. Look at Keane V Healy. Ok you say Keane is a better talent, yes, but who is scoring goals at international level...??? In an ideal world we would have them both! Going back to O'Shea, oh God, i wont even start.....just awful, as ever

[endabob1]

Keane is Class - Healy is in Form. Over time Keane has and will again be the better player.
You slate O'Shea (who I thought was ok last night bu I am not a fan) Of their back 4 only Aaron Hughes would get a place in our side.
In midfield, Johnson & davis would be welcomed with open arms, Gillespie is another Kilbane, 100% every game but he's not really up to it anymore.
I'd take Healy into the squad too because he is a poacher and would be another option up front.
The 2 'keepers would be welcome too, they'd add depth to an already strong area.
So of the entire squad I would take 6 players and of them I reckon only Hughes & Davis would be in contention to start.

[an_ceannaire]

I would play Doyle and Healy up front in a combo team. Robbie is a great player for spurs but not for ireland. If u think about it, when was the last time Robbie scored from play against a big team at club or international level? Israel for Ireland, and God knows for Spurs. He is a great man to score against the decent teams like Everton and Citeh, but against Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Ure, Chelski.......never, from play. Robbie Keane is going to be one of those players, like Duffer, with a great future behind them. John O'Shea too. God i remember when he burst on the scene, the hopes we had, ala McShane. If O'Shea has Kilbanes application he would be a super player but at this stage it would appear he just doesnt care, and thats criminal.

[harps1954]

According to the BBC news this morning, it said that last night's win over Latvia pushed the North up into the top 50 in the FIFA rankings. Considering we were ranked around 42nd (I think) in the last rankings, how long will it take the North to jump ahead of us in the rankings? Considering that the North have picked up seven points from their last three games as opposed to us picking up just one in a similar period, the answer might be "not long". Three or four years ago, we were ranked in the top 15 while the North were still in the hundreds. Changed times for both countries indeed. If things keep going like this, the North will be seeded higher than we will be for the World Cup qualifiers.

Also, considering that Delaney used the excuse of fallings in the World Rankings when Kerr was dismissed, how far will we have to fall until Stauton is questioned by him.

[green army]

Also, considering that Delaney used the excuse of fallings in the World Rankings when Kerr was dismissed, how far will we have to fall until Stauton is questioned by him.

forgot about that. excellent point.

[tetsujin1979]

Healy is the North's main striker, everything in their game is set up to get him into a scoring position, compare it to Henry at Arsenal, where it's all about moving the ball at pace to Henry, making the best use of his skills, and Henry for France, where, ehh, it's not. I don't think Kerr or Staunton (yet) have set up the team to create consistently chances for Robbie in the way the team did under McCarthy (anyone got the stats for Robbie's scoring record under managers - Eirebhoy??). I doubt Healy would score as many if he was playing for the Republic.

P.S. I hate using the term "The Republic", but it's necessary here to distinguish Ireland, and Ireland!

[cheifo]

I have given up trying to analyse Robbies performances altough last night I thought to be fair he ran his legs off.Fair play to the north but I still feel we would beat them over two legs.

[kingp35]

Being a Leeds United fan I can say that Healy is a great player for the north but average at club level. HE has scored only once from open play this season for Leeds and has struggled a bit. Healy just seems to have a huge passion for his country and ups his game considerably when playing for Norn Iron.

[an_ceannaire]

I ask this in a purely curios way, is Healy a catholic? With a name like Healy? And if so was there ever any way we could have had him? How many of that Norn Iron team are catholic and might we have had?

[Hibs4Ever]

Duff is a CLASS player, by FAR the best we've of, and was quality last night, ran there defence all over the place

[an_ceannaire]

Duff is no more Irelands best player than i am!! You read Roy Curtis too much, he has his tongue so far up Duffers a*se! Yes Damien is one of our more talented players, but talent and application are two seperate things. Our best player, by a MILE is Shay Given, after him, probably Richie Dunne and God Save us but Killer is always dependable. Duff and Robbie are just playing like Dream Team Carl Fletcher Prima Donnas. I would start McGeady over Duff these days and Doyle over Keane

[Lionel Ritchie]

I enthusiastically and with genuine goodwill, check to see how NI get on right after all our games. However I believe I will add a little reality when I say that they are at the highest watermark they've been at since qualifying for Mexico 86 ....and are still 15 or so places below what we consider slumped basket case disgrace for ourselves.

That's not to pour derision on the remarkable strides they've made. Lawrie has steadied the ship, has them working for each other and playing some tidy football.

But there still aren't many in their squad you'd swap for ours. They're just getting more out of them is all.

The only thing in their set up that's truly a class apart from ours is the managment.

David Healy for Robbie Keane? Don't make me laugh.
I wouldn't swap David Healy for David Connolly.

I'm a Leeds supporter and, while Blackwell didn't give Healy the best of runs in his striking role, from what I've seen of him Healy is about as good as ...well ...David Connolly actually. That is he's an above average Championship standard striker who probably won't cut it in the Premiership if and when he gets the chance.

[eirebhoy]

I'm not getting involved in this debate but I just had to say, Hamilton mentioned last night that Keane's last goal in the league was against Arsenal. :D

Duff has set up all our goals so far and pretty much set up all our decent chances last night. It'll take him a while before he's back to his very best but he's still our best outfield player without doubt. It's like saying drop Healy as all he does is score. Duff is producing for us at half the player he can be...

[an_ceannaire]

Ah yes Eirebhoy, but that goal was a penalty.....re read what i said my friend

[Qwerty]

Lafferty is their one player I would take, we are lacking a target man more than anything and this kid is an exciting prospect. Aaron Hughes would be next. Davis is also a good player.

[frankbrett]

Ah yes Eirebhoy, but that goal was a penalty.....re read what i said my friend

Keane scored that disputed goal against Arsenal when the ref failed to stop play.

[Condex]

Keane is Class - Healy is in Form.


Whats class about Robbie Keane, a sub for Spurs,never does anything in a major match...

[EalingGreen]

Healy is the North's main striker, everything in their game is set up to get him into a scoring position, compare it to Henry at Arsenal, where it's all about moving the ball at pace to Henry, making the best use of his skills, and Henry for France, where, ehh, it's not. I don't think Kerr or Staunton (yet) have set up the team to create consistently chances for Robbie in the way the team did under McCarthy (anyone got the stats for Robbie's scoring record under managers - Eirebhoy??). I doubt Healy would score as many if he was playing for the Republic.

P.S. I hate using the term "The Republic", but it's necessary here to distinguish Ireland, and Ireland!

As a Spurs fan, I would agree that Keane is a more accomplished player than King David, but only in club football.
There is no comparison at international level. DH has now scored 24 goals in 54 games, which is 44.4%. Thierry Henry's international record is 36 in 83 = 43.4%.
Of course, it's true that we have to play to DH's strength by playing him alongside a big guy. DH played every one of those awful 12 scoreless games under McIlroy; however, so clueless was McIlroy that he was packing the defence and hoping that DH might sneak a winner, despite the fact he was either isolated on his own up front, or playing alongside a wee guy (Paul McVeigh etc)
Sanchez quickly realised he needed support and provided it. However, the only big guy available was James Quinn, currently warming the bench at Northampton, or Kyle Lafferty, just turned 19, with fewer than 20 games under his belt for Burnley. How many would Healy have scored if he had a better partner and a stronger team?

Btw, appreciate your use of the "Republic" tag; we wouldn't want other people to mix us up these days, would we? ;) (Besides, "ROI" and "NI" are easier to type than some of the other names we call each other!)

[EalingGreen]

For the first time in my 27 years, i reckon if we played the Nordies in a two leg play off, we would get done.

On present form I'd certainly rate our chances, which is not something I'd have said in many years - possibly since the first time we ever played (0-0 at Lansdowne, followed by 1-0 to us in Belfast).

The crowd might lift the ROI in Dublin, but if we got you on a wet Wednesday night at Windsor, I'd seriously fancy us to avenge that awful 4-0 hiding you inflicted on us a few years back, with interest!

[EalingGreen]

Northern Ireland are in a good vein of form but before Spain they were in crisis after losing 3-0 at home to Iceland there was the sort of disquiet that we had afetr Cyprus, now Lawrie is a hero again.....
I'd still fancy us to beat them over 2 legs.

Crisis? Hardly. It came soon after we beat Finland away and was followed four days later by a 3-2 win over Spain, a 0-0 draw in Denmark and last night's home win over Latvia, all within the space of two months.

As for your beating us over two legs, you might of course be right, but there's absolutely nothing in the form book to suggest you are.

[EalingGreen]

Keane is Class - Healy is in Form. Over time Keane has and will again be the better player.
You slate O'Shea (who I thought was ok last night bu I am not a fan) Of their back 4 only Aaron Hughes would get a place in our side.
In midfield, Johnson & davis would be welcomed with open arms, Gillespie is another Kilbane, 100% every game but he's not really up to it anymore.
I'd take Healy into the squad too because he is a poacher and would be another option up front.
The 2 'keepers would be welcome too, they'd add depth to an already strong area.
So of the entire squad I would take 6 players and of them I reckon only Hughes & Davis would be in contention to start.

Keane is a better all round player (imo), but Healy is much the better finisher. Playing in a frequently poor NI side (occasionally awful), he has scored goals throughout his international career, at a rate marginally better than Thierry Henry's.
And he's no "flat-track bully", either. As well as his sublime hattrick against Spain, he has scored against Germany, England, Austria, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Norway and a 35 yard screamer against Denmark that left Peter Schmeicel watching in admiration.
As for your other selections, maybe you're right on the basis of what they're doing in the club game, but people like Michael Duff and Chris Baird have been outstanding recently for NI and Keith Gillespie is showing some of his old Newcastle form, where he was every bit as good as Damien Duff at his best.
The other guys to watch out for are Evans (MU) and Lafferty (Burnley). Evans is only 18, but Sir Alex Ferguson has marked him out as potentially something special and Big Lafferty isn't far behind. He's only just turned 19, but he's 6' 4" and built to match. God knows what he'll be like when he stops growing and fills out! :D

[Emmet]

Duff is no more Irelands best player than i am!! You read Roy Curtis too much, he has his tongue so far up Duffers a*se! Yes Damien is one of our more talented players, but talent and application are two seperate things. Our best player, by a MILE is Shay Given, after him, probably Richie Dunne and God Save us but Killer is always dependable. Duff and Robbie are just playing like Dream Team Carl Fletcher Prima Donnas. I would start McGeady over Duff these days and Doyle over Keane

Duff and Keane did play well last night - but it has been a very long time since you could say that about them. Neither can really be too complacent about their places in the team. Given is our best player and really should be the 1st choice captain imo

[EalingGreen]

I ask this in a purely curios way, is Healy a catholic? With a name like Healy? And if so was there ever any way we could have had him? How many of that Norn Iron team are catholic and might we have had?

AFAIK, Healy is Protestant, not that any of gives a flying fcuk.

As for the implication of your post generally, what planet do you come from? I know that the ROI have exploited some highly "creative" selection criteria over the years, but the idea that you might "have" some of our players solely on the basis that they may be Catholic goes far beyond even sectarianism and into the realm of lunacy. :eek:

(P.S. You're not a GAA fan, by any chance?)

[EalingGreen]

I enthusiastically and with genuine goodwill, check to see how NI get on right after all our games. However I believe I will add a little reality when I say that they are at the highest watermark they've been at since qualifying for Mexico 86 ....and are still 15 or so places below what we consider slumped basket case disgrace for ourselves.


David Healy for Robbie Keane? Don't make me laugh.
I wouldn't swap David Healy for David Connolly.


The rankings are taken over a rolling four year period. If you were to re-work them over the last two years, I've no doubt we'd be ahead, possibly by more than 15 places at that.

As for your other comments, there's not an NI fan alive who would swap Healy; not for Keane and Connolly and their wage packets and a night with their sisters!

[endabob1]

Whats class about Robbie Keane, a sub for Spurs,never does anything in a major match...

You don't get to White Hart Lane much I take it?
Top scorer in 3 of the 4 seasons he's been there.
Made Vice Captain last season after his run of form at the end of the previous season.
Has been one of Spurs most consistent players (along with King & robbinson) over the last few years and has picked up the supporters club player of the year award twice because of it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The rankings are taken over a rolling four year period. If you were to re-work them over the last two years, I've no doubt we'd be ahead, possibly by more than 15 places at that!
Mmmm ...I dunno about that. The only people who've hockey'd us in a competetive game in the last two years are Cyprus. In the same period NI have been on the wrong end of competetive hidings from England, Iceland, Poland ...have I missed someone?;)

But my general point is that, while NI are on the rise and all the best to ye, we have a competetive class that we are not currently living up to.


As for your other comments, there's not an NI fan alive who would swap Healy; not for Keane and Connolly and their wage packets and a night with their sisters!

He's done stirling work for ye.

Though if Keane and Connollys sisters look anything like their respective brothers ...I'd say they're right p1ssy nettle lickers.

[eirebhoy]

an_ceannaire - I've deleted your post. This is a football forum so if you want to talk about sectarianism then go elsewhere.

[Bomb Landsdowne]

This thread reminds me of the great chant outside the Carwash in Ayia Napa.

"Were even worse than the North!!!"

The lad wearing the nordie jersey got great attention from our fans the other night outside Lukes, we all got pictures.

[livehead1]

yeh, whatever

[youngirish]

The rankings are taken over a rolling four year period. If you were to re-work them over the last two years, I've no doubt we'd be ahead, possibly by more than 15 places at that.

As for your other comments, there's not an NI fan alive who would swap Healy; not for Keane and Connolly and their wage packets and a night with their sisters!
A couple of wins and a draw and people get carried away. I'm sure Kevin Blackwell would have swapped Healy, his sisters and his pay packet for Keane in an instant at any time when he was Leeds manager. Healy is muck. Watch a few Championship games and you'll see why Connolly, Morrison and Elliot all regularly outscore him, most of his goals come from penalties.

The only player I'd consider that you have letting near our team would be Davis and I'd say he'll be outshone by Garvan or J O'Brien in a couple of years anyway.

As for being higher than us if the rankings were taken over the past two years, didn't you fairly recently lose to Iceland, Wales, Austria, Poland and everyone else? You got 9 points in the last qualifiers we got twice as much (from a harder group) so figure that one out.

Northern Ireland will finish nowhere in their qualification group by the time everything is wrapped up. You can have my wage and me sisters if I'm wrong.

We'd take your manager in an instant though.

[Not Brazil]

I ask this in a purely curios way, is Healy a catholic? With a name like Healy? And if so was there ever any way we could have had him? How many of that Norn Iron team are catholic and might we have had?

Jesus wept.:eek: :rolleyes:

[TommyT]

To answer the original question; I agree.

If we'd just played the North in a two leg play-off over the last two international dates we'd probably have lost. Given the squads availiable and the indvividual players's form. However that situaltion hasn't reaaly seemed likely in about twenty years as is unlikely to re-occur for the forseeable.

[First]

I ask this in a purely curios way, is Healy a catholic? With a name like Healy? And if so was there ever any way we could have had him? How many of that Norn Iron team are catholic and might we have had?

How would being a catholic or not make him available to us ffs.
I have a friend and her name is Jayaletchemy Krishnan and she is catholic maybe she can come and play for us.
Cop yourself on

[First]

Sorry hadnt read through the full thread before I had to react to the obvious **** stiirring from an_ceannaire.

[Dodge]

How would being a catholic or not make him available to us ffs.
I have a friend and her name is Jayaletchemy Krishnan and she is catholic maybe she can come and play for us.


Does she play centre half?

[First]

Does she play centre half?


She does like to play at the back:D

[EalingGreen]

A couple of wins and a draw and people get carried away. I'm sure Kevin Blackwell would have swapped Healy, his sisters and his pay packet for Keane in an instant at any time when he was Leeds manager. Healy is muck. Watch a few Championship games and you'll see why Connolly, Morrison and Elliot all regularly outscore him, most of his goals come from penalties.

The only player I'd consider that you have letting near our team would be Davis and I'd say he'll be outshone by Garvan or J O'Brien in a couple of years anyway.

Northern Ireland will finish nowhere in their qualification group by the time everything is wrapped up. You can have my wage and me sisters if I'm wrong.

We'd take your manager in an instant though.

What I posted was that NI fans wouldn't swap Healy for the world; I've acknowledged elsewhere that Keane's club record is superior.

As for only Davis getting near a combined team, you're either very silly, very ill-informed, or trying a wind-up. No matter, it's all academic.

As for where we finish, I'd fancy our chances of finishing at least as high as the ROI.

And when Sanchez leaves NI, it's safe to say just about the one position he won't be after is managing the ROI.



P.S. What are the sisters like? ;)

[holidaysong]

The North would probably win.
We have not played each other in ages actually! We should have a friendly.

[youngirish]

The North would probably win.
We have not played each other in ages actually! We should have a friendly.

What is very conviently overlooked is that against Cyprus and the Czechs we had an injury list as long as anything I've ever seen in International football and a manager who is learning his trade game by game (but who in fairness I reckon will still not have much of a clue a year down the road even if he still has the job). With our full team we should beat the north comfortably.

[youngirish]

As for only Davis getting near a combined team, you're either very silly, very ill-informed, or trying a wind-up. No matter, it's all academic.


I'm actually quite well informed but not biased like yourself. So who else would get into our team? Taylor instead of Given? No chance. Lafferty or Healy instead of Keane or Doyle (proven premiership talent). Not a hope. Gillespie instead of McGeady or Duff? Are you for real? Arron Hughes instead of Finnan? Don't make me laugh.

Be realistic man. Two wins and a draw and you conveniently forget the quality of your players and all your results in all recent qualification campaigns. The only thing you have going for you against us is a half decent manager (compared to our muppet) and a good young central midfielder (of which we should have a couple coming through in the near future anyway). In all other 10 positions on the pitch we should play you off the park.

[Andyh]

I'm actually quite well informed but not biased like yourself. So who else would get into our team? Taylor instead of Given? No chance. Lafferty or Healy instead of Keane or Doyle (proven premiership talent). Not a hope. Gillespie instead of McGeady or Duff? Are you for real? Arron Hughes instead of Finnan? Don't make me laugh.

Be realistic man. Two wins and a draw and you conveniently forget the quality of your players and all your results in all recent qualification campaigns. The only thing you have going for you against us is a half decent manager (compared to our muppet) and a good young central midfielder (of which we should have a couple coming through in the near future anyway). In all other 10 positions on the pitch we should play you off the park.

Play you off the park, oh please. I would take any of our defenders/midfielders over O'shea - he's useless. Carr hasn't been the same player since his injuries, would have Hughes/Baird every time. Doyle, having played for 2 months in the EPL is a proven talent??? come on! No one really knows how Lafferty will turn out as he's only 19 - but the signs are promising. I would take Gillespie over either of the Reids, especially the fat one. In fairness Keith mightn't have lived up to his potential, but he's still a very talented player, has played at the highest level and has loads of international experience - 72caps at the mo.

Damien Johnson, Davis and Clingan are all good midfielders, especially Davis. Also him and Clingan are only 21/22 - still a lot to learn.

I won't try to argue that Healy is better than Keane, as obviously he's not and the stats speak for themselves. But you must admit Keane has flattered to deceive an awful lot. And Healy can really turn it on at international level, which is what we're discussing.

[eirebhoy]

Play you off the park, oh please. I would take any of our defenders/midfielders over O'shea - he's useless. Carr hasn't been the same player since his injuries, would have Hughes/Baird every time. Doyle, having played for 2 months in the EPL is a proven talent??? come on! No one really knows how Lafferty will turn out as he's only 19 - but the signs are promising. I would take Gillespie over either of the Reids, especially the fat one. In fairness Keith mightn't have lived up to his potential, but he's still a very talented player, has played at the highest level and has loads of international experience - 72caps at the mo.
O'Shea and Carr aren't good enough for our team anyway in most people's opinion. Spurs tried to sign S.Reid in the summer, I don't think their fans would be too impressed if they tried to sign Gillespie. ;) When A.Reid gets a decent run of games you'll see his quality. :)

[bwagner]

Hi andyh

Andy i think your right about the good young players like clingan and davis ..i would love to have them.

One thing but you have lost two or three players to us ...crewe's O' Connor and now Marc wilson of portsmouth.

Just out of curiosity would you support the republic if we were in a finals ??
And many of the northern Ireland team catholic? ( no bad intentions meant by asking this)

[bwagner]

Overall performance in world cup finals.....
we just beat u :p

34 Ireland 13 2 8 3 10 10 0 14 35.9
35 Northern Ireland 13 3 5 5 13 23 -10 14 35.9

[Stuttgart88]

Does Chris Brunt of SWFC get a game for the North?

I like the look of him. Great left foot & actually scored with his right on Saturday.

PS: left footer / right footer - intended only to describe his preferred kicking foot. No other meaning intended :)

[RogerMilla]

i hopnestly think we would pump them at home , windsor would be a completely different matter though...

[youngirish]

i hopnestly think we would pump them at home , windsor would be a completely different matter though...

It comes down to this.

Should we hammer them? Yes I honestly believe that we have far better individual players.

Would we hammer them? Probably not with that muppet Staunton in charge though I'd be surprised if we didn't shade it over two legs.

Let's look at a combined team to put this argument to rest. Any reasonable person would have to admit it would look something like this:

Given
Finnan Dunne Hughes (he can play at CB so we'll stick him in) O'Shea (sh*t I know but F**k me if he's not better than Jonny Evans)
Mc Geady S Reid Davis Duff
Keane Doyle

Not one other NI player should get a look in and even Hughes is no great bonus to the Republic team, I'd rather see what Mc Shane can do there as he may turn out to be decent rather than persist with tried and trusted below average Premiership players like Hughes or Andy O'Brien.

On a side note whey didn't the FAI do something similar to the IFA and offer the manager's job to an up and coming manager in one of the lower divisions rather than giving it to a muppet who was an assistant at a club in a relegation fight? I hate John Delaney he's ruined the next 2 years for me.