Was Kerr a relative success?

[Stuttgart88]

He then sees the defensive coach at Walsall come in
Just for info, Paul Merson came clean during the week and said that Stan did no coaching whatsoever at Walsall. I think he was added to the coaching payroll for accounting / budget reasons or something like that.

[wws]

good god...its worse than we thought.....stans an accounting error!

[galwayhoop]

i think it was tom humphreys who said that stan put out the cones for the reserve training sessions at walsall but didn't decide what they were used for! sums it up really

[eighties mullet]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but I am wondering if this question has been considered on here.

Think about it? 5-2 to Cyprus! Cyprus for Christ's sake.

When you look at the team's achievment's in the last World Cup Qualifiers (not great, I know - but they look a million miles from losing 5-2 to Cyprus - we actually beat them home and away). They drew in Paris to the eventual World Cup finalists (France), admittedly lost 1-0 at home - does this seem so bad compared to what might yet happen tonight? They drew twice with eventual World Cup quarter finalists Switzerland (they were boring in the world cup - but we'd take the quarter finals and I'd challenge anyone to say we have worse players on paper than the Swiss). The Israel results were arguably poor results (I'd argue we should have won both, especially the home leg), but it could also be argued we were fiercely unlucky.

Perhaps Kerr was an unlucky manager and had we hung on against Israel maybe that would have been us boring the World to tears against the Ukraine? Perhaps?

What I do know is that under Kerr we never lost 5-2 to feckin Cyprus. The lowpoint was the 2-0 in Basle and probably the Israel games. While we were killed by those results, we were never so utterly humiliated.

Are the players that much worse at his disposal? I'd argue no perhaps much of a muchness? He has lost Roy Keane and Cunningham who were becoming more and more ineffectual with age from the last campaign, but players like Richard Dunne, Stephen Reid, Kevin Doyle and Aiden McGeady have come along either fulfilled their potential or are approaching what we have hoped for.

I read an argument that while we are a team in transition, that is no excuse for losing to a side that equates to no more than a team equivelant to the best of the eircom league garnished with a couple of reasonable strikers that play Champions League football for Greek sides. Not just losing. Getting well and truly hammered.

So in hindsight, perhaps the sacking of Kerr was the worst to happen.

It reminds me of the situation at Newcastle when the fans were calling for Bobby Robson's head. Little did they know that once he was gone, things were going to get far worse under Graham Souness regime.

So what do you think? Did Kerr get more out of a mediocre group of players than we gave him credit for? Or is Staunton just really unlucky and this horrible result is a one off abberation (can we count the 0-4 friendly loss to the Dutch as further proof against him?)?

Anyone?
Kerr imo was anything but a success we have looked shapeless and leaderless since McCarthys reign and its not the Roy Keane factor it's been the Managers, Brian Kerr started the rot and now Stan is finishing off the job in some style, we are now ranked 4 places lower than Norn Iron, a team beaten at home 3-0 by iceland!!
Cascarino made a good point the other day in that it comes down to the manager to give each player a job to do before the match and the player then applies himself to that job for the 90 minutes regardless, thats exactly what Charlton did and McCarthy to a lesser extent when he followed him up. Telling John Sheridan, a very gifted midfield player, not to play one-twos with the two strickers and to play the ball down the channels at all times, sheridan didnt like the job he was given but he stuck to it and in the end it benefitted the team thru results, whether u agree or disagree with Charltons style or tactics is irrelevant, it got the most important thing and thats results.
What we have been missing is that direction since McCarthy players knowing and doing their jobs for the overall benefit of the team.
Blaming duffer for below par performances since 2002 is no coincidence since McC left weve had no one in the dugout capable of giving the team direction needed!! and the leadership to get results
What has been missing since the McCarthy days is that s

[OwlsFan]

i think it was tom humphreys who said that stan put out the cones for the reserve training sessions at walsall but didn't decide what they were used for! sums it up really


Tom Humpreys!! Quoting a GAA fan who loves to have a slap at soccer at every opportunity isn't the best evidence. Like Humpreys would know what happens at Walsall reserve training sessions :rolleyes:

[bennocelt]

Totally incorrect.
1) He did not have two full campaigns. Totally Incontravertable so stop being silly.

2) The Russians are 'poor' are they? There is no relevant evidence in our comparable football histories or infrastructures and player pools to suggest we have any right to term the Russians "poor". Again stop being silly .

4) Martin O Neill hasn't 'turned it around at Villa' - he's done well in the short term - the only balanced view of his impact will come when he's managed them for a comparable period to his predecessor. Its called judging like with like - I've no doubt he will in time show he's better than the last guy - but that cant be said at this juncture - its called 'jumping to conclusions'

oh and the swiss perform at a level far in advance of our players over the last 4 years - again completely incontravertable

no not two full campaigns, but enough games to turn it around in the first one, maybe you dont watch many irish games but the way ireland lied down for the russians and the swiss was embaressing, and will take a long time to forget
sorry but the russian and swiss, and israel, and swiss again, and a weak french team in paris, were POOR, christ ireland used to beat teams as bad as them years ago, no we get happy if we can beat the likes of cyprus, now and again!
that great game of the world cup.switzerland 0 ukraine 0......great football from great teams.jeez:rolleyes:
and im sure that by the end of the season, martin o neill will have villa in europe.just like he used to do with leicester..you might have remembered that!

[galwayhoop]

hardly putting it forward as proof. i'd class it somewhere between rumour and inuendo. however it is what the scribes are writing regardless

[wws]

no not two full campaigns, but enough games to turn it around in the first one, maybe you dont watch many irish games but the way ireland lied down for the russians and the swiss was embaressing, and will take a long time to forget
sorry but the russian and swiss, and israel, and swiss again, and a weak french team in paris, were POOR, christ ireland used to beat teams as bad as them years ago, no we get happy if we can beat the likes of cyprus, now and again!
that great game of the world cup.switzerland 0 ukraine 0......great football from great teams.jeez:rolleyes:
and im sure that by the end of the season, martin o neill will have villa in europe.just like he used to do with leicester..you might have remembered that!


remind me what the swiss and ukraine game was again? oh yeah a world cup qtr final. Will ya giver over fer fecks sake. Its as plain as the nose on your face that our players are not in that bracket. Hiddink and O Neill could manage them now and they'd still be a poor quality panel

[galwayhoop]

martin o neill will have villa in europe.just like he used to do with leicester..you might have remembered that!

you said before that o'neill and ferguson were great managers. and they are. ferguson has shown his true quality with a top drawer team and o'neill with teams who usually overachieve under him - he has never had a top quality team (ie one full of genuine world class players) and it is up for debate if the tactics he used with leicester and celtic and i presume uses at villa (haven't seen much of villa so correct me if i'm wrong) his tactics use big front players (heskey @ leister and hartson @ celtic) with the ball going up to them quickly and is based on a strong defence (usually 5 at the back using wing backs) and a strong midfield (lennon at both leister and celtic).

of the 2 i reckon o'neill would be better for us as he is a massive motivator and gets the best out of players. to be fair to delaney :eek: i reckon he thought that o'neill would take the job and thats why kerr was chopped. but he should of found out who was coming in before getting rid of kerr to replace him with a novice.

in short the o'neill line is a moot point as he was offered the job and didn't want it for whatever reason. supposidly his wife's sickness but he applied for england job a couple of months later so don't know about that. anyway as pointed out before no manager has gone on to better things after taking us as long as i can remember - unless mcCarthy's first season at sunderland where he won the championship but had a mare in the premiership. giles, hand, charlton, kerr none have had gainful managerial employment after ireland job. and i doubt stan will get a call off man u or real madrid after he finishes with us.... but maybe he will

[dublinred]

Yes he did alright with limited resources and should of been given more time , people seem to think that because we have premiership players we should be doing great . I think the real problem is that ignoring the hype from Sky Sports/The Times/Irish Independent/Evening Herald and the Sun whom Rubert Murdoch has a vested interest in, the premiership is a dreadful league in recent years and the standard and technique is simply not good enough most teams play either a counter attacking game or long ball game , even England who appartenty have the best team in the world again are struggling with a team full of Sky Gladiators.I think if we are ever to be a force again more of our players need to play outside of the premiership and we should employ a European coach.

[wws]

Yes he did alright with limited resources and should of been given more time , people seem to think that because we have premiership players we should be doing great . I think the real problem is that ignoring the hype from Sky Sports/The Times/Irish Independent/Evening Herald and the Sun whom Rubert Murdoch has a vested interest in, the premiership is a dreadful league in recent years and the standard and technique is simply not good enough most teams play either a counter attacking game or long ball game , even England who appartenty have the best team in the world again are struggling with a team full of Sky Gladiators.I think if we are ever to be a force again more of our players need to play outside of the premiership and we should employ a European coach.


endorsed and I'd also add that back in the good ol days the Ireland squad had a high proportion of players playing for Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal - these were the powerhouses of English football at that time both in the old First Division and in the Cup - they were playing for the standard bearer teams.

We now have just two players at modern day standard bearers of Man United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal - these are the only English teams that are on a par with the best in europe in terms of professionalism and out and out quality.

and we've just Finnan and O Shea among their ranks

the career trajectories of Duff and Keane illustrate teh scale of teh problem - given that squad apologists rate them as our "world class" stars. Sadly they are journeymen

[galwayhoop]

endorsed and I'd also add that back in the good ol days the Ireland squad had a high proportion of players playing for Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal - these were the powerhouses of English football at that time both in the old First Division and in the Cup - they were playing for the standard bearer teams.

We now have just two players at modern day standard bearers of Man United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal - these are the only English teams that are on a par with the best in europe in terms of professionalism and out and out quality.

and we've just Finnan and O Shea among their ranks

the career trajectories of Duff and Keane illustrate teh scale of teh problem - given that squad apologists rate them as our "world class" stars. Sadly they are journeymen


correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.

[cavan_fan]

correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.


How many Swedish players (including those playing in all countries) would get in a Premiership 11 or a Premiership 22:

Maybe Ljungberg though I wouldnt place him above Duff - they seem to qualify OK.

[galwayhoop]

man for man the swedes are much better than us. and also have a massive physical advantage over us - something we used to be able to use to our advantage against superior opposition.

i'm not saying we will never qualify for tournaments again just that it is not exclusively down to the manager.

how do you motivate a person who is a millionaire by the age of 20, lives life like a pop star, has an agent do everything for him and has no natural or visable afinity with his country only in name?

[galwayhoop]

and their entire squad does not play in england and they have a strong domestic league - they do not rely on the premiership.

[OwlsFan]

I think the real problem is that ignoring the hype from Sky Sports/The Times/Irish Independent/Evening Herald and the Sun whom Rubert Murdoch has a vested interest in, the premiership is a dreadful league in recent years and the standard and technique is simply not good enough most teams play either a counter attacking game or long ball game , even England who appartenty have the best team in the world again are struggling with a team full of Sky Gladiators.I think if we are ever to be a force again more of our players need to play outside of the premiership and we should employ a European coach.

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?

[wws]

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?


his point being how representative of the premiership are those two teams?

I'd say there is a chasm between the big four and the rest (unfortunately the bulk of Irelands players play for "the rest" - or....lower!

[cavan_fan]

man for man the swedes are much better than us. and also have a massive physical advantage over us - something we used to be able to use to our advantage against superior opposition.

i'm not saying we will never qualify for tournaments again just that it is not exclusively down to the manager.

how do you motivate a person who is a millionaire by the age of 20, lives life like a pop star, has an agent do everything for him and has no natural or visable afinity with his country only in name?

Agree that we dont seem to be as physically strong as we used/should be. One of the reasons why I as so happy to see Carlsey back. Also this is the main thing I have against O'Shea for a big lad he doesnt impose himself. Without digressing too much would rather he played for Reading where he'd need to be a key player, not Man U where he can drift in and out.

But on the Sweden v Ireland thing are they really man for man better. Their lineup for their last match was

1 Rami Shaaban
2 Mikael Nilsson
3 Mikael Antonsson
4 Petter Hansson
5 Erik Edman
7 Niclas Alexandersson
6 Daniel Andersson
8 Kim Källström
9 Christian Wilhelmsson
10 Marcus Allbäck
11 Johan Elmander

Sorry for not knowing all their players but of the ones we all know
Edman didnt set the world alight at Spurs.
Alexandersson - any better than Carsley?
Kallstrom - Appears to be skiful (though not as good as in Championshipp manager) but not sure whether he or Duff would ne my choice.
Wilhelmsson - disappointed me a bit in the World Cup.
Allback - Much as I'd like to have a stroing attacker he's no better anr probably not as good as Robbie.

I know they were missing their star player (Ibrahimovic) but if we're talking petulant lazy buggers then he makes O'Shea appear interested.

I'm not denying that Sweden are a far better team than us at present but that just shows what we are missing but having a joke manager who is not motivating the players. It also shows that we shoudl take advantage of a slightly agin team as the next generation may not be as good.

[Stuttgart88]

FYI Kallstrom is an athletic & tough central midfieder as far as I know. In no way comparable to Duff. He's exactly the type of player we need.

I was at Sweden vs England in Cologne and few of their players stood out as being great talents. Teddy Lucic, once of Leeds, played really well against Rooney, but what did Lucic ever do in English football?

But, it goes back to the point I've made about frequently in the last fortnight, they had the following:

Physical presence
Moral character / leadership
Balance
Solid core to the team
Good management

Sweden are my benchmark for what Ireland can realistically expect. Play well consistently in qualification, consistently win tricky away games, qualify regularly and compete well once they get there. Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. They engage teams in a game home & away and they deserve their status.

[NeilMcD]

Great post Stuttgart. The four heading you have above are things which should be standard for any Irish team but are sadly missing. We cannot expect top class players but we can expect the four or five headings you have above.

[wws]

FYI Kallstrom is an athletic & tough central midfieder as far as I know. In no way comparable to Duff. He's exactly the type of player we need.

I was at Sweden vs England in Cologne and few of their players stood out. Teddy Lucic, once of Leeds, played really well against Rooney.

But, it goes back to the point I've made about frequently in the last fortnight, they had the following:

Physical presence
Moral character / leadership
Balance
Solid core to the team
Good management

Sweden are my benchmark for what Ireland can realistically expect. Play well consistently in qualification, consistently win tricky away games, qualify regularly and compete well once they get there. Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. They engage teams in a game home & away and they deserve their status.


will you ditch this line ". Sweden for absolutely sure do not buy into our jaded "win at home, draw away" ethic. "

no ireland tean sets out to do this (deliberately draw) - they simply dont win away as they are not good enough to impose themselves and defend the gaps - as said above - that sort of out and out quality isnt there

[geysir]

Kallstrom hits a mean free kick from long distance.

Is Kerr a relative success, relative to what or who?
What's the barometer of success that we can say whether an Irish manager is successful or not? Without that piece of information the thread Q is rendered void.
If a measure of success was having a DVD released of the golden games on the way to qualification or a documenting of the great victories then I'm still waiting for that one.

[Billsthoughts]

Tom Humpreys!! Quoting a GAA fan who loves to have a slap at soccer at every opportunity isn't the best evidence. Like Humpreys would know what happens at Walsall reserve training sessions :rolleyes:

maybe this is the case in the paranoid irony free zone you like to call a brain nut not in reality. lots of people like the GAA and football. and like anyone would know what happens at the walsall reserve training sessions.:rolleyes: ( ......well maybe eirebhoy:D ....)

[dublinred]

If the Premiership is so crap, how come a crap Premiership side like Liverpool won the Champions League and Arsenal got to the Final last year?

1) Liverpool = Miracle - they do happen , Lourdes , Knock , Fatima , Istanbul etc.
2) Arsenal = Wenger & Thiery Henry

[OwlsFan]

maybe this is the case in the paranoid irony free zone you like to call a brain nut not in reality. lots of people like the GAA and football. and like anyone would know what happens at the walsall reserve training sessions.:rolleyes: ( ......well maybe eirebhoy:D ....)

There is a difference between liking both and liking one and disliking the other. He did an article on 200 reasons why the GAA is better than soccer. Hardly the actions of someone who likes both soccer and the GAA :rolleyes: Tom Humpreys is undoubtedly a very good writer but I view anything he says about soccer with suspicion and certainly won't put much credence on an off the cuff remark about what happens at a Walsall reserve training session.

As for the comments on the Premiership, there is probably a chasm between the Big 4 in most countries and the rest. In Spain, for example, how often do teams outside of Barca and Real M win the league. Not very often I suspect. The attack on the Premiership doesn't stand up. It's a fasionable thing to say (I hear Drunkphy saying it often enough) but it's a strong league which attracts many of the best players in the world.

[Noelys Guitar]

correct, correct and correct. when people spout on avbout 11 premiership players in the team .... etc etc it is poppycock. indeed when charlton took over he had european cup winners in the ranks, combined with players from man u, arsenal etc.. players who had a winning mentality and were used of performing for top teams at the top level. we may have premiership players now but in the main there from spurs, newcastle, sheff utd, blackburn, reading ... etc. IMO these teams are little if any better than the teams in the Greek, Turkish, French leagues. if we had a team made up of players from the top 4 teams it would be different but who on our team would even get into a premiership 11 (none). or even a premiership 22 (possibly given but prob van de sar would pip him there). if we cant get onto a premiership 22 then have a stab at a european top 50 or even a world top 50 players!

possibly has something to do with our ranking.

Ignoring the fact that a team with Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton, Lawernson, Robinson, Moran, Whelan, Sheedy and Hughton did not qualify. Stapo's comments in 1985 that we were just not good enough and would probably never qualify for a major championship! But teams which included Gary Breen, Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy and Packie Bonner could get us to the Euros and world cups.

[galwayhoop]

Ignoring the fact that a team with Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton, Lawernson, Robinson, Moran, Whelan, Sheedy and Hughton did not qualify. Stapo's comments in 1985 that we were just not good enough and would probably never qualify for a major championship! But teams which included Gary Breen, Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy and Packie Bonner could get us to the Euros and world cups.

we were extremely unlucky not to qualify for WC86. qualified for euro88, WC90, should of qualified for euro92, qualified for WC94 with a team which stemed from them players (those you listed at the start of your post) in the earlier tournaments and was then added to by the likes of houghton, aldridge, mcgrath, sheridan....etc.

i think you are being very selective here as the teams you say qualified us for the world cups and euros also included keane and the players above. BTW i don't remember gary breen playing at euro 88. he must of been young!!!!!!

the teams including the 'modern day' irish players only got us to WC2002 and failed to get us to euro00, euro04, WC06 and looks likely that we'll fail to get to euro08.

your post is a little off mark IMO

[Noelys Guitar]

Unlucky to qualify for 86? How? If you read my post you would see I wasn't being specific and stated teams for Euro's and WC's. Breen in 2002 WC. And it was unlucky to qualify for 82 not 86. None of the players I mentioned at the beginning of my post made it to WC94???McGrath who I had left out did. But Eoinie wasn't playing him in competitive games until the last one against Denmark in 85. So didn't include him.

[galwayhoop]

None of the players I mentioned at the beginning of my post made it to WC94.

they played in the others. your twisting your facts here to make an illigimate point. those players, and the ones who i listed who followed on from them, qualified for more tournaments than they missed out on. we have only qualified for 1 tournament in the last 7 (if you assume we dont get to euro08).

[bennocelt]

remind me what the swiss and ukraine game was again? oh yeah a world cup qtr final. Will ya giver over fer fecks sake. Its as plain as the nose on your face that our players are not in that bracket. Hiddink and O Neill could manage them now and they'd still be a poor quality panel


in the worst world cup since the 90's
international footy is dead easy
man just look at the rise of scotland and norn iron, same player resources but good management

[wws]

rise to what ?

(have a feeling niether will qualify)

[Billsthoughts]

There is a difference between liking both and liking one and disliking the other. He did an article on 200 reasons why the GAA is better than soccer. Hardly the actions of someone who likes both soccer and the GAA :rolleyes: Tom Humpreys is undoubtedly a very good writer but I view anything he says about soccer with suspicion and certainly won't put much credence on an off the cuff remark about what happens at a Walsall reserve training session.
I think you have to have a sense of humour to read him so maybe you should avoid.....

As for the comments on the Premiership, there is probably a chasm between the Big 4 in most countries and the rest. In Spain, for example, how often do teams outside of Barca and Real M win the league. Not very often I suspect. .

Quite often I think you will find....

[wws]

28 times since 1928 it has gone to a non big two team

[Billsthoughts]

how many times in the last 20 years?
Barca and Madrid do not always occupy top two places....

[wws]

4 times in the last 20 years

Real madrid havent won a thing since david beckham joined them

[Billsthoughts]

well then....
It seems I was wrong...
altho ....twice in the last 5 years....and 4 times in last ten years is still better than england

[NeilMcD]

remind me what the swiss and ukraine game was again? oh yeah a world cup qtr final. Will ya giver over fer fecks sake. Its as plain as the nose on your face that our players are not in that bracket. Hiddink and O Neill could manage them now and they'd still be a poor quality panel

World Cup 2nd round actully not a quarter final.

[bennocelt]

rise to what ?

(have a feeling niether will qualify)


actually i fancy scotland, but still i doudbt we would beat a spain or a france these days

[OwlsFan]

I see all the Premiership teams won in the UEFA Cup last night - the second tier of English teams but of course the Premiership is rubbish :rolleyes:

More importantly I watched Robbie play for Spurs (live on Setanta). Made one goal with a nice flick but missed three good chances. Jol gave him the whole 90 minutes in the hope he'd score. At least he got in to the right position on each occasion. Needs a goal or two big time to regain his confidence.

[wws]

oWLS FAN THE GIST OF what people are pointing out is that the Spanish/French/German/Italian leagues are the benchmark

congrats on beating two Turkish teams and a Polish side - but its hardly the point we're making - with the exception of the spurs game - a commendable 2-0 away win - the other two didnt exactlty pish over moderate oppossition?

[wws]

oh and I should add well done Derry - last nights 0-0 between Rapid B and PSG again shines an extremely positive light on the scale of their achievements this season. Rapid are a decent side and went far in last years UEFA cup (i half expected them to beat PSG at home)

[OwlsFan]

oWLS FAN THE GIST OF what people are pointing out is that the Spanish/French/German/Italian leagues are the benchmark

French - Bordeaux. I saw the Liverpool game and Bordeaux were brutal. Italian - Rangers of all teams win away in Italy. Spanish football is probably the best but take away Bayern from the Bundesliga and it's nothing to write home about.

I'd put the Premiership second behind Spain but it's not the rubbish some people like to try and portray and for any of our players to make it there means they are of a reasonably high standard, especially now that they're competing for places against the rest of the world.

[wws]

I disagree strongly - I think the football played in the Premiership is not of a standard to benefit players when playing international football - outside of the big four - who are all managed by european brains with the exception of Sir Alex - and who all have the very best players. The rest of the prem do not play at their level or have the best of teh best. Theres bits n bobs of wquality here and there but overall the play is patternless, the defending clueless and its crash bang wallop football.


Italian football is in dissarray at the minute - due to well publicised problems - but it will always come good and they are the world champs.

[eirebhoy]

More importantly I watched Robbie play for Spurs (live on Setanta). Made one goal with a nice flick but missed three good chances. Jol gave him the whole 90 minutes in the hope he'd score. At least he got in to the right position on each occasion. Needs a goal or two big time to regain his confidence.
I only seen the first half but he was wrongly flagged offside when he was through one on one. I'd have liked to see if he'd have scored it. :)

As for Livorno, they fielded 5 first team players. Most Italian teams don't care too much about the UEFA cup. Roma and Parma went through their recent UEFA cup runs with the reserve team. Palermo beat Frankfurt last night with their reserves.

[bennocelt]

French - Bordeaux. I saw the Liverpool game and Bordeaux were brutal. Italian - Rangers of all teams win away in Italy. Spanish football is probably the best but take away Bayern from the Bundesliga and it's nothing to write home about.

I'd put the Premiership second behind Spain but it's not the rubbish some people like to try and portray and for any of our players to make it there means they are of a reasonably high standard, especially now that they're competing for places against the rest of the world.

yeah maybe you are right there Owlsfan, but i have seen spurs , man city , newcaslte, etc a few times this season and they all look sh ite, even liverpool look bad
do you think that its a general decline in the standard of football worldwide?