View Full Version : Is there any eircom League player good enough
galwayhoop
10/10/2006, 4:55 PM
well is there. there has to be.
candidites to consider for exclusion from the squad in favour of eL players:
1. colgan
2. mcshane (never saw him play so i don't know)
3. st ledger (never saw him play so i don't know)
ken foree
10/10/2006, 5:17 PM
hm what about the big center half from derry? name escapes me, he scored the equalizer against gretna away. not sure of his eligibility
inexile
10/10/2006, 5:18 PM
i have a sneaking feeling this thread will open a can of worms
Mick Devine ahead of Colgan
Joe Gamble in the squad
Of course im biased but honestly think they'd do a better job
Student Mullet
10/10/2006, 5:29 PM
hm what about the big center half from derry? name escapes me, he scored the equalizer against gretna away. not sure of his eligibilityClive Delaney?
Clive Delaney?
No I think he means Darren Kelly, cracking player, hes from the North though afaik
IMO MIck Devine and/or Barry Murphy should definitly be in the squad ahead of Colgan.
Gamble should be in ahead of Kilbane - seriously, would Gamble have been any worse than Kilbane has been for us recently?
Jason Byrne would definitly play with more heart than Fintin O'Morrison.
Danny Murphy of Cork City (Born in England but represented us at underage level) should be in the squad ahead of the likes of Ian Harte.
Owen Heary is more experienced and IMO a better player than Stephen Kelly who IMO is simply not good enough
Alan Bennett is a cracking player who always gives 100% and has been brilliant in Europe and attracted interest from England. IMO there is no doubt that he would do a better job than Andy O'Brien - Bennet is fitter, plays at just as high a standard, if not a better standard than the Portsmouth reserves and is comfortable on the ball, unlike O'Brien.
Btw Andy O'Brien represented England at u21 level, FACT. He is not Irish and this can be seen in how he plays for us, he is only with us because hes not good enough for the English.
Sorry, went off on a bit of a rant there because I hate Andy O'Brien so much, but to answer the question of this thread, all of the above players are good enough for our squad, the only reason they are not in the squad is because they play here
brine3
10/10/2006, 5:48 PM
you shouldn't drive the knife into andy o'brien like that. he has over 180 premiership appearances, but is currently going through a bad patch (not his fault he got picked). it happens. when o'brien was at his best he was very comfortable on the ball, one of the better ball playing centre-backs we've had. he's given 100% for ireland and done a great job for us in the past, and will do so again in the future.
once when i was visiting a friend in newcastle i went to nufc - juventus champions league match at st. james park. nufc won 1-0 and andy o'brien was running the show in defence. just to put this into perspective, kenny cunningham or richard dunne never played in the champions league group stage. o'brien is not great at the moment, but he'll be back - mark my words. unless our own supporters drive him into the ground of course...
you shouldn't drive the knife into andy o'brien like that. he has over 180 premiership appearances, but is currently going through a bad patch (not his fault he got picked). it happens. when o'brien was at his best he was very comfortable on the ball, one of the better ball playing centre-backs we've had. he's given 100% for ireland and done a great job for us in the past, and will do so again in the future.
once when i was visiting a friend in newcastle i went to nufc - juventus champions league match at st. james park. nufc won 1-0 and andy o'brien was running the show in defence. just to put this into perspective, kenny cunningham or richard dunne never played in the champions league. o'brien is not great at the moment, but he'll be back - mark my words. unless our own supporters drive him into the ground of course...
I think that at this present moment we would be better served by playing the Irishman Alan Bennett ahead of O'Brien
sligoman
10/10/2006, 5:52 PM
Their are plenty of EL players good enough. Mainly this guy (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/sligoman/FoyzerForIreland.jpg) though:).
brine3
10/10/2006, 5:58 PM
I think that at this present moment we would be better served by playing the Irishman Alan Bennett ahead of O'Brien
i agree at this moment in time that andy o'brien shouldn't be playing, due to a lack of first team fitness. o'brien has always given 100% for ireland, and you suggesting that he is somehow not irish enough is an insult to the millions of irish diaspora all over the world
i'd have paddy mccarthy of leicester insead
No I think he means Darren Kelly, cracking player, hes from the North though afaik
Yea he has said he is looking for a call up by NI and said he hoped lawrie was watching. I think delaney however is a very handy player like kelly. It is a big step up from our leagues and are there many examples of players having made a huge success when given a chance lately?
Dallasirish
10/10/2006, 6:42 PM
Dont know enough about EL but ronnie o brien should be called up. one of the top midfielders in MLS
geysir
10/10/2006, 7:37 PM
Why do you think Kerr didn't select the best EL players? (except for Byrne's couple of minutes in a crappy friendly). In fact haven't Stan and even Given presented more playing time to EL players than all of Kerr's 2 seasons? Agreed about Devine,Gamble and Bennet at least.
There are somethings more important than blooding in youngsters from the championship and selecting footballers from reserve teams.
eirebhoy
10/10/2006, 7:45 PM
Btw Andy O'Brien represented England at u21 level, FACT. He is not Irish and this can be seen in how he plays for us, he is only with us because hes not good enough for the English.
Well personally I thought he was ultra-consistant when playing with Cunningham and they had an excellent partnership. I always had doubts about him when playing without an organisor in defence so Dunne will have to start improving in that department.
On the England thing:
In February 1999, O'Brien played in a friendly against France at Pride Park but when Taylor offered him the chance in England's next competitive outing, O'Brien demurred and took time out to ponder his international future. He was flattered by the English attention but he was aware of his Irish roots - his grandparents Danny and Kathleen O'Brien had moved from Kilfinnane in south-west Limerick to look for work in the mills of Yorkshire - and two months after his English debut, he played for Ireland in an under-21 friendly against Sweden in Birr.
People approach him now and wonder, what with his upwardly mobile status, if he regrets the decision. "I say no. It wasn't really close. I only played against France because it was a friendly and there was pressure from the club's point of view because they think it's more prestigious to play for England than for Ireland." He has no doubts. He travelled to Kilfinnane with his father last summer and the experience overwhelmed him. "Just picking up a few pieces of my past," he said.
None of our players try any less for Ireland than they do for their clubs (although maybe Matt Holland would be one) so I certainly don't believe it. Why would he play for us if he was only going to give 90%? Surely he's not getting more than a few grand for playing for us.
Stuttgart88
10/10/2006, 7:57 PM
Andy O'Brien has rarely put a foot wrong for us. He played out of his skin in Basle (1-1) when only Given & he played well for us. I also thought he did really well in Stuttgart. Central defence was one of the positives on the night.
livehead1
10/10/2006, 9:48 PM
I think that at this present moment we would be better served by playing the Irishman Alan Bennett ahead of O'Brien
You are one of the reasons why people stop posting on this forum. We are discussing the merits of Eircom League players. A discussion which is based around whether we believe any of them would be more capable than some of the players in our squad. Instead you use this oppurtunity to begin a vitriolic attack on an English born member of our squad. Besides this, you have now been proven by Eirebhoy to be inaccurate in your assessment of the 'Englishman' O'Brien.
Mod Edit: Attack the post, not the poster...
highlight100
10/10/2006, 10:31 PM
well is there. there has to be.
candidites to consider for exclusion from the squad in favour of eL players:
1. colgan
2. mcshane (never saw him play so i don't know)
3. st ledger (never saw him play so i don't know)
Stephen o'Brien of Bohs-has plenty of experience in a big game
I will leave Paul mc Shane in the squad
Jason Gavin of the drogs in for St Leger
sligoman
10/10/2006, 10:35 PM
Stephen o'Brien of Bohs-has plenty of experience in a big gameBut also, he's ****!
thegit
11/10/2006, 9:13 AM
Doyle is good enough, all it takes is for him to take a chance on a couple more.
lofty9
11/10/2006, 10:21 AM
Owen Heary, a brilliant player. I would put Alan Bennett and Darren Kelly (if eligible) ahead of an Andy OBrien who isn't playing regular enough football. Christy Brown ahead of Kevin Kilbane and John O Shea. Gamble would do a good job of a defensive midfielder. That's about it though. As I've stated before, the National League needs to be supported by all and invested in to help develop players who can step into the breach once needed. At present it is improving and will continue to improve, however most of the players now IMHO aren't good enough to step up to the level and play well on a consistent basis. Against Cyprus they could do it, but against the likes of Germany and the Czechs it would be too much of an ask.
DonegalDub
11/10/2006, 10:30 AM
Darren Kelly. He IS eligible as Norhtern born players can play for the Republic. Remember Alan Kerneghan?
Hibs4Ever
11/10/2006, 10:41 AM
Barry Ryan at St Pats, best keeper in the league
also Dave Mulcahey at St Pats
Dassa
11/10/2006, 10:45 AM
Darren Kelly. He IS eligible as Norhtern born players can play for the Republic. Remember Alan Kerneghan?
Yes I know, but he was in the ROI u21 squad never played and changed his allegiance to NI and has been talking himself up for an NI call up.
Alan Kernaghan wasnt NI born hence the reason he couldnt play for us.
galwayhoop
11/10/2006, 11:42 AM
Alan Kernaghan wasnt NI born hence the reason he couldnt play for us.
i thought kernaghan was born in the 6 counties... anyway didn't he play for NI at underage - hence the reception he used to get in windsor
i'd say kelly would probably play for RoI if he got the call. probable play for whoever gives first callup
Pablo
11/10/2006, 11:48 AM
Their are plenty of EL players good enough. Mainly this guy (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/sligoman/FoyzerForIreland.jpg) though:).
Yeah Right! i'd certainly put him in goal it'd be impossible to get around the tub of lard!
Schumi
11/10/2006, 12:35 PM
Barry Ryan, Joe Gamble and maybe Owen Heary or Ciaran Martyn. Can't see anyone else really.
cavan_fan
11/10/2006, 12:44 PM
I'm beginning to come around to this.
I'll use Stepehn Kelly as an example. Why is he in the team. Admittedly he has played for Tottenham but then he didnt set the world alight there.
There must be a better left/right back in the EL than Kelly.
Someone once said about Tit*k Bramble at Newcastle that the only reason he remained in the Premiership is that he is there now. He'd never make it into the league on his performances. Kelly seems a bit like that, in his career he has done absolutely nothing to deserve an international place.
i thought kernaghan was born in the 6 counties... anyway didn't he play for NI at underage - hence the reception he used to get in windsor
i'd say kelly would probably play for RoI if he got the call. probable play for whoever gives first callup
born in england brought up in bangor supported NI as a boy but due to the IFA stricter rules than FAI couldnt be called up. I think the abuse was harsh but many fans asked why if he was such a big NI fan why he wanted to play for their biggest rivals. Im only taking this from what i hear abit before my time as a NI fan:)
kingp35
11/10/2006, 1:38 PM
Joe Gamble should be in there but thats about it at the moment. Other EL players should have been given a chance in friendly matches though.
Ceirtlis
11/10/2006, 1:50 PM
The only one player i would consider in the eircom league would be Michael Devine for one of the goalkeeper spots and this because we have poor cover in the goalkeeping positions. I wouldnt consider any outfield players.
Despite the fact we have NO holding midfielders except oap carsley?
Under the current circumstances I would like to see
1. Mick Devine
2. Alan Bennett
3. Owen Heary
4. Joe Gamble
All better than a lot of the squad we have right now aand all with good european experience.
GuisaSaigon
11/10/2006, 2:24 PM
Fran Carter, Pa Dunne, Donal Murray,Ollie Cuningam??????
:rolleyes:
i agree at this moment in time that andy o'brien shouldn't be playing, due to a lack of first team fitness. o'brien has always given 100% for ireland, and you suggesting that he is somehow not irish enough is an insult to the millions of irish diaspora all over the world
i'd have paddy mccarthy of leicester insead
No it is not, I have absaloutly no problem with second or third generation players playing for us as long as they consider themselves Irish and give 100%, but IMO in the case of O'Brien I find the fact that he played for England dissapointing and to be honest insulting to the jersey, thats my opinion, simple as that. I honestly am not insulting the Irish diaspora
Dont know enough about EL but ronnie o brien should be called up. one of the top midfielders in MLS
Agree, he is definitly deserves a chance in a friendly at least
Well personally I thought he was ultra-consistant when playing with Cunningham and they had an excellent partnership. I always had doubts about him when playing without an organisor in defence so Dunne will have to start improving in that department.
On the England thing:
None of our players try any less for Ireland than they do for their clubs (although maybe Matt Holland would be one) so I certainly don't believe it. Why would he play for us if he was only going to give 90%? Surely he's not getting more than a few grand for playing for us.
On O'Briens ability (off topic, Ill keep it short - can be brilliant - like he was against Ronaldo of Brazil or can be completley useless, at the moment he is a massive liability)
I believe that when he goes out on the pitch he gives 100% of course but I just dont think wearing the jersey means as much to him as it would to me or you to be totally honest
To be honest that article proves nothing, of course hes going to say he loves and is proud of his Irish backround, that proves nothing. The fact is he played for England, IMO the only reason he didnt play for England is because he knew he had a better chance of playing for Ireland, in short he is not good enough for England so he chose us, again thats my opinion and Im entitled to believe that
You are one of the reasons why people stop posting on this forum. We are discussing the merits of Eircom League players. A discussion which is based around whether we believe any of them would be more capable than some of the players in our squad. Instead you use this oppurtunity to begin a vitriolic attack on an English born member of our squad. Besides this, you have now been proven by Eirebhoy to be inaccurate in your assessment of the 'Englishman' O'Brien.
Mod Edit: Attack the post, not the poster...
One of the reasons people stop posting here?? Look who's talking ffs!! Have a look at the rest of my posts and see if you still feel that way. This is just how I feel on a certain subject, simple as that.
Proved wrong? Tbh that article proves nothing only that O'Brien is so proud of his Irish roots that he played for England, the only reason he is with us is because he is not good enough for the English.
I understand why you feel so strongly about this but I honestly have no problem atall with English (or any other country for that matter) born players representing Ireland.
Look at Kilbane - born in England, but when told he was going to be picked for England at underage level said no because he wanted to play for us, he didnt care if the club thought it was better for him to play for England unlike O'Briren, Kilbane played for us becasue he is Irish, now maybe you can understand whee I am coming from and what I am trying to say
RoversInn
11/10/2006, 3:41 PM
Their are plenty of EL players good enough. Mainly this guy (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/sligoman/FoyzerForIreland.jpg) though:).
took the words out of my mouth
czarner
11/10/2006, 4:09 PM
Proved wrong? Tbh that article proves nothing only that O'Brien is so proud of his Irish roots that he played for England, the only reason he is with us is because he is not good enough for the English.
I understand why you feel so strongly about this but I honestly have no problem atall with English (or any other country for that matter) born players representing Ireland.
So that's why you put the word 'Irishman' in bold when comparing Bennett to O'Brien. Livehead1 was spot on in identifying the little islander mindset typified by your posts in this thread as being the major turn-off of this forum. Why do you and others like you have so much difficulty in understanding the concept of having an attachment to more than one country? Just because you only have roots in one nation doesn't mean that those who don't have to conform to your all-or-nothing mentality. Not to mention the fact that footballers have to choose the country they play for at a relatively young age; I think if someone in a situation like this has difficulty choosing which side of their cultural and genetic inheritence to plump for it's more an indication of thoughtfulness than a mercenary nature.
eirebhoy
11/10/2006, 4:57 PM
in short he is not good enough for England so he chose us, again thats my opinion and Im entitled to believe that
O'Brien was really highly rated as a youngster and was a regular in the Bradford team at the age of 17. After a couple of seasons in the premiership with Bradford Newcastle paid £2m for him. If he cared that much about England he would have accepted the 2nd call up to the U21s. If he was good enough to be 1st choice centre half for the England U21s at the age of 20 it's impossible to predict that he'd be a poor player now. :)
superfrank
11/10/2006, 6:01 PM
Darren Kelly is ineligible. He has played for Northern Ireland at ALL underage levels and is apparently harbouring ambitions of being in their senior squad.
And Sligo, Keith Foy is not that good. Cop on will yis.
gloryglorygufc
11/10/2006, 8:51 PM
well is there. there has to be.
candidites to consider for exclusion from the squad in favour of eL players:
1. colgan
2. mcshane (never saw him play so i don't know)
3. st ledger (never saw him play so i don't know)
OOPS!
gloryglorygufc
11/10/2006, 8:58 PM
Not withstanding the result/performance tonight, there are still lots of fundamentals to be sorted.
On this thread's point:
I think J Byrne deserves a slot ahead of morrison
Agree with most of the rest of the suggestions what about Kevin Deery (derry) and Stephen Ward (Bohs)? - based on u21 match in terryland, outshone played their "illustrious" teammates playing in the "big" leagues
And a backup for Carsley in Gamble.
rambler14
11/10/2006, 9:50 PM
LADS YOU GOT TO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS IN THE EIRCOM LEAGUE HAVE FAILED IN ENGLAND AND RETURNED TO IRELAND. DON'T GET ME WRONG THERE IS SOME EXCELLENT TALENT OUT THERE LIKE JOE GAMBLE BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS JOE GAMBLE FAILED TO HACK IT IN ENGLAND AND COULDN'T GET HIS GAME WITH BARNET. I THINK HE IS A BRILLIANT PLAYER, I THINK HES ONE OF THE BEST IN THE EIRCOM LEAGUE BUT LETS FACE IT MOST OF THE PLAYERS HE PLAYS AGAINST ARE CRAP AND JUST MAKES PLAYERS LIKE HIM STAND OUT.
I THINK PLAYERS LIKE:
GAMBLE,HEARY,Darren Kelly,BYRNE,BENNETT ALL DESERVE A CHANCE BUT NOT AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL JUST YET, GIVE THEM A COUPLE OF FRIENDLY'S AND SEE HOW THEY GET ON THEN MAKE A DECISION BECAUSE LETS FACE IT ITS A BIG STEP FROM THE EIRCOM LEAGUE TO INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL. LIKE TO GO FROM PLAYING AGAINST PLAYERS WHO KNOCK BACK THE PINTS EVERY WEEK TO PLAYERS WHO TRAIN EVERYDAY MORNING, NOON AND NIGHT, IT MIGHT BE TOO MUCH FOR THESE LADS.
All those players you mentioned train everyday professionally.
rambler14
11/10/2006, 10:12 PM
Not as much as the highly paid players we come up aginst though
Marked Man
12/10/2006, 1:28 AM
So that's why you put the word 'Irishman' in bold when comparing Bennett to O'Brien. Livehead1 was spot on in identifying the little islander mindset typified by your posts in this thread as being the major turn-off of this forum. Why do you and others like you have so much difficulty in understanding the concept of having an attachment to more than one country? Just because you only have roots in one nation doesn't mean that those who don't have to conform to your all-or-nothing mentality. Not to mention the fact that footballers have to choose the country they play for at a relatively young age; I think if someone in a situation like this has difficulty choosing which side of their cultural and genetic inheritence to plump for it's more an indication of thoughtfulness than a mercenary nature.
Bang on. POTM.
galwayhoop
12/10/2006, 1:13 PM
OOPS!
i actually thought about this thread as i walked away from landsdowne last night! just as well that i said i had never seen him play so i didn't know!!!
personally i thought he had a stormer last night
adamcarr
12/10/2006, 3:58 PM
COULDN'T GET HIS GAME WITH BARNET.
Why do people keep saying this, Gamble made 44 appearances for Barnet that season. He should be in the Ireland team without a doubt and could easily cope at Championship level at the very least in England.
endabob1
12/10/2006, 4:18 PM
The simple argument for at least looking at more EL players is Kevin Doyle, from Cork City to the Premiership & International team in just over 12 months. If that's not a good enough reason to at least invest some resources in going to games to look at players. I haven't been to an EL game in years (I'm no longer resident in the fair isle) so I would have next to no idea on the quality of players. The argument that players 'couldn't cut it' in a better league holds no ice with me, I remember Billy Woods playing for the U21's when he was an EL player and having a stormer against England and for an EL XI against Liverpool when they opened the floodlights at Lansdowne, he never settled in England but having seen him in action 2 or 3 times I am of no doubt he had the ability to play at the top level in England.
As for O'Brien he was crap against Cyprus (as were mos of the XI) but him & Dunne were apart from Given the best Irish players in Stutgart and he has rarely put a foot wrong in a green shirt. I won't go into his "Irishness" because it is a fruitless argument but suffice to say that having lived in 3 countries as well as my own there is more to being Irish than simply living in Ireland.
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