View Full Version : Should the 1981 Hungerstrike be Comemorated by the State?
Rovers'Til IDie
23/10/2006, 3:48 PM
If anything those islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers are far more courageous than the I.R.A man who say, blew up the pub in Guildford for example
As John McEnroe might say (in the course of a political debate no doubt),
"You cannot be serious". Neither act took any courage.
osarusan
23/10/2006, 3:55 PM
Fair enough. I suppose I should really start reading these threads from the start.....but then again why waste my time when I can just spout out the first thing that comes to mind :p
"Michael Sands...we'll always remember you".
Like it very much.
Lim till i die
23/10/2006, 4:12 PM
As John McEnroe might say (in the course of a political debate no doubt),
"You cannot be serious". Neither act took any courage.
I was merely pointing out (in my admitedly badly worded way) the rank hypocrisy of anyone who can look upon a Provo as some kind of heroic freedom fighter while looking at an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist as a raving lunatic
You'd be amazed at the hypocrisy of some people, particularly around closing time :rolleyes:
OwlsFan
23/10/2006, 4:54 PM
They did nothing in my name and I would vociferously resist any attempt to erect a moment by the State to people who didn't even recognise the State in any event.
Rovers'Til IDie
23/10/2006, 5:01 PM
They did nothing in my name and I would vociferously resist any attempt to erect a moment by the State to people who didn't even recognise the State in any event.
By that logic we'll have to rename Pearse st., Connolly station etc. as none of the 1916 leaders recognised the 'state' that they lived in.
By that logic we'll have to rename Pearse st., Connolly station etc. as none of the 1916 leaders recognised the 'state' that they lived in.
Sure why not, always thought Bono St. and Sir Bob Geldof station had a better ring to it anyway. Although I'm not too sure if Bono counts as being Irish anymore, or if Sir Robert recognises the Republic either! :o
Rovers'Til IDie
23/10/2006, 9:42 PM
Sure why not, always thought Bono St. and Sir Bob Geldof station had a better ring to it anyway. Although I'm not too sure if Bono counts as being Irish anymore, or if Sir Robert recognises the Republic either! :o
You'd have to have those badly done irish translations as well, Sráid an Bhónán...Arús Riobaird MacGeldóbha
Dr.Nightdub
23/10/2006, 10:46 PM
Are the Troubles not taught in the South as part of modern Irish History ?
Dunno about now, but I left school in 1980 so the Hunger Strikes hadn't even happened at that point. From what I recall, "modern Irish history" finished sometime in the 60s with all the economic progress stuff under the Whittaker plan. I s'pose the troubles were too fresh and raw to be included and anyway, the usual rule of thuumb that "history is written by the victors" couldn't be applied as there weren't any.
dcfcsteve
23/10/2006, 11:52 PM
What troubles?
Your wildest guess.......?
Dodge
23/10/2006, 11:57 PM
Your wildest guess.......?
Only adam's in a bad humour I'd tear into that post...
dcfcsteve
24/10/2006, 9:28 AM
Only adam's in a bad humour I'd tear into that post...
Are suggesting that there was no event from 1969-c.1998 in Irish history colloqually known as 'The Troubles' ?
Are you suggestig that any other event is so widely known as 'The Troubles' that I would need to differentiate which 'Troubles' I meant ?
In short - what the feck are you on about here Dodge...? :confused:
bennocelt
24/10/2006, 2:40 PM
I agree with you that it was part of the broader struggle, but the average person in the street probably doesn't know exactly what the strike was all about (particularly in the Republic), and would probably be a bit disappointed to learn the mandane level of the strikers demands. Starving yourself for Ireland is seen as glorious -starving yourself for the right to wear whatever jeans you want and to hang out with your buddies in jail wouldn't be seen to have the same ring to it.
Are the Troubles not taught in the South as part of modern Irish History ?
talking about education, you might need a few pointers yourself
it was the right to be recognised as a political prisoner, not an everday common thief or rapist or the like
to say that the fight wasnt a political issue, meant that the IRA and Sinn fein and the fight for irish freedom is just mere thuggery
talking about education, you might need a few pointers yourself
it was the right to be recognised as a political prisoner, not an everday common thief or rapist or the like
to say that the fight wasnt a political issue, meant that the IRA and Sinn fein and the fight for irish freedom is just mere thuggery
actually in the context of our EU membership and where thats going it was just outdated folly.
Block G Raptor
24/10/2006, 3:33 PM
talking about education, you might need a few pointers yourself
it was the right to be recognised as a political prisoner, not an everday common thief or rapist or the like
to say that the fight wasnt a political issue, meant that the IRA and Sinn fein and the fight for irish freedom is just mere thuggery
Agreed although I think Sands himself put it more elequotely "I'll wear no convicts uniform nor meakley do my time that england might call Irelands plight 800 years of CRIME!"
Are suggesting that there was no event from 1969-c.1998 in Irish history colloqually known as 'The Troubles' ?
Are you suggestig that any other event is so widely known as 'The Troubles' that I would need to differentiate which 'Troubles' I meant ?
In short - what the feck are you on about here Dodge...? :confused:
I'm suggesting you don't get irony or sarcasm steve
Strabane_Harp
24/10/2006, 7:46 PM
Agreed although I think Sands himself put it more elequotely "I'll wear no convicts uniform nor meakley do my time that england might call Irelands plight 800 years of CRIME!"
I dont think that is a sands quote to be honest
dcfcsteve
24/10/2006, 11:43 PM
I'm suggesting you don't get irony or sarcasm steve
D'oh...! :o
dcfcsteve
24/10/2006, 11:46 PM
talking about education, you might need a few pointers yourself
it was the right to be recognised as a political prisoner, not an everday common thief or rapist or the like
to say that the fight wasnt a political issue, meant that the IRA and Sinn fein and the fight for irish freedom is just mere thuggery
Spot the man who hasn't read all the posts on the thread....
And to be honest - in it's latter years, the IRA and Sinn Fein were increasingly more about thuggery than Irish freedom. Hence drug smuggling, bank robberies, money-laundering, protection rackets, intimidation/assaults/punishment attacks to avenge personal differences etc. What did the McCartney murder do to advance Irish Freedom, for example.... ?
bennocelt
26/10/2006, 9:51 AM
Spot the man who hasn't read all the posts on the thread....
And to be honest - in it's latter years, the IRA and Sinn Fein were increasingly more about thuggery than Irish freedom. Hence drug smuggling, bank robberies, money-laundering, protection rackets, intimidation/assaults/punishment attacks to avenge personal differences etc. What did the McCartney murder do to advance Irish Freedom, for example.... ?
cleared the streets of druggies and their imps
i have read all the posts
as another poster put it better than me........the irish fight for freedom is an act of criminality, ?
thats a handy thing for the brits to say, considering their history
Lionel Ritchie
26/10/2006, 11:57 AM
cleared the streets of druggies and their imps
Well they do like a clear run.
It's amazing the results you can get when you fast-track justice so much that all it requires is a stop off at the local sports store for some nice weighted hurleys and a nip next door to the hardware store for a few grand strong carpenters nails.
Cleared the streets of druggies my hole.:mad:
dcfcsteve
26/10/2006, 12:50 PM
cleared the streets of druggies and their imp
Holy fcuk - are you for real ?? I can assure you there were no issues getting your hands on any form of narcotics whilst I was growing up in Derry. The source of those narcotics, often had a direct paramilitary route, or had a blind eye turned to it where it didn't. The only drug dealers in the nationalist north to get knee-capped were either the ones who fell-out with a memeber of the provos, or those who got too big for the boots and/or didn't want to pass on their 'tax'. Hence, very few people ever got attacked for drug dealing, even though plenty of people were doing it and a lot of people knew who they were. And yet the drugs just kept on flowing. Your niavety is frightening....
as another poster put it better than me........the irish fight for freedom is an act of criminality, ?
thats a handy thing for the brits to say, considering their history
Attacking soldiers, police etc is one thing. Extortion, bank robberies, protection rackets, intimidation and viiolence on the basis of personal grudges
- none of those advance the course of Irish freedom. In fact, they arguably put the cause back by creating resentment and a sense of injustice amongst the very support base for that 'struggle'. And they are all criminal activities, no matter who is saying it, who was doing it, or how you look at it.
You have a shockingly naive view of recent Irish history
bennocelt
26/10/2006, 1:53 PM
Holy fcuk - are you for real ?? . Your niavety is frightening....
And they are all criminal activities, no matter who is saying it, who was doing it, or how you look at it.
You have a shockingly naive view of recent Irish history
are you John Hume in disguise
dcfcsteve
26/10/2006, 3:20 PM
are you John Hume in disguise
Are you in denial ?
Wake up to what the north was like during the troubles Benno. It wasn't some misty-eyed glorious struggle of brave and pure fenian soliers marching out to meet the Saxon foe in Ireland's name. It was a bloody horrible messy conflict, with a large dollop of pure unadulterated criminality welded to its side.
Are you even from the north ?
Strabane_Harp
26/10/2006, 5:47 PM
As much as im a committed republican socialist, i have to agree with steve.
There is no such thing as a romantic war. War is just a nice way of saying there are a lot of murders going round
cheifo
27/10/2006, 1:02 AM
100% SH, lets hope we've seen the end of it.
bennocelt
27/10/2006, 6:54 AM
Are you in denial ?
Wake up to what the north was like during the troubles Benno. It wasn't some misty-eyed glorious struggle of brave and pure fenian soliers marching out to meet the Saxon foe in Ireland's name. It was a bloody horrible messy conflict, with a large dollop of pure unadulterated criminality welded to its side.
Are you even from the north ?
i never said it was a bed of roses, but ireland is partitioned whether you like it or not
no, im from iraq
Moderator: Can we keep this on the original topic please. Current day SF or IRA activities can be discussed in new thread.
Dodge
27/10/2006, 12:23 PM
Are you even from the north ?
At this point I'd like to remind you of This post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=441725&postcount=236), this post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=441760&postcount=240) and this post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=442049&postcount=262)
Yes I'm petty and yes I remember everything.... :p
haha
i have to take time out form my busy day shamrock baiting to giggle at that
btw - to add further fuel to this contoversy I just found out that DCFCSTEVE is actually Stephen Kenny
dcfcsteve
30/10/2006, 12:04 AM
At this point I'd like to remind you of This post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=441725&postcount=236), this post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=441760&postcount=240) and this post (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=442049&postcount=262)
Yes I'm petty and yes I remember everything.... :p
Which has exactly what relevance.....? :confused:
dcfcsteve
30/10/2006, 12:06 AM
i never said it was a bed of roses, but ireland is partitioned whether you like it or not
no, im from iraq
And what has that got to do with the large degree of criminality inherent within the IRA's activties during their last campaign (1969-c. 1998) ?
And what has that got to do with the fact that some of the Huinger Strikers were in prison for criminal activities (e.g. theft, murder) rather than the more traditional definitions of 'active service' ?
Partition is no excuse for racketeering, drug smuggling, personal violence etc etc.
bennocelt
30/10/2006, 7:56 AM
And what has that got to do with the large degree of criminality inherent within the IRA's activties during their last campaign (1969-c. 1998) ?
And what has that got to do with the fact that some of the Huinger Strikers were in prison for criminal activities (e.g. theft, murder) rather than the more traditional definitions of 'active service' ?
Partition is no excuse for racketeering, drug smuggling, personal violence etc etc.
i would love to know your opnion about the riotous behavious of that 1916 mob, *******s, totally recked Dublin
:rolleyes:
please explain to me the differecne between SF and the IRA in the 1900's to 1960's? has the fight for a united and free ireland changed so much!? am i living in cloud cukoo land, has ireland suddenyl got its 6 counties back!:rolleyes:
what hunger stirkers, were in priosn for criminality, please xplain?
also a few of them were elected representatives
and for your homework, let me suggest watchin teh great movie."the wind that shakes the barley"
and then come back to me!
dcfcsteve
30/10/2006, 5:21 PM
i would love to know your opnion about the riotous behavious of that 1916 mob, *******s, totally recked Dublin
:rolleyes:
It shouldn't take me to explain the difference between uniformed insurgents standing and fighting against a uniformed enemy, and IRA members knee-capping people they fell out with or dealing drugs.
And the 1916 insurgents didn't wreck Dublin - the British did in seking to crush them quickly and with minimum loss of life to themselves.
please explain to me the differecne between SF and the IRA in the 1900's to 1960's? has the fight for a united and free ireland changed so much!? am i living in cloud cukoo land, has ireland suddenyl got its 6 counties back!:rolleyes:
You seem completely unable or unwilling to either recognise the criminality that the IRA engaged in, or to separate it from the organisation's broader motives.
The struggle for Irish freedom did not need to include drug dealing, knee-capping people you've falling out with, and robbing banks for personal gain. Yet under the last IRA campaign it did. I wasn't aware that James Connolly knee-capped people his brother fell out with, Pearse ran protection rackets, or that DeValera dealt skank and pills....
what hunger stirkers, were in priosn for criminality, please xplain?
I thought you said you'd been reading everything on here...? Read my very first post on this thread for the info.
also a few of them were elected representatives
Two were at the time they died, but not at the time they were imprisoned. So having an MP or TD amongst their number makes actions like burning a young female shop assistant to death in a Ballymena clothes store somehow more acceptable, does it...? :confused:
and for your homework, let me suggest watchin teh great movie."the wind that shakes the barley"
For your homework, may I suggest taking your head out of your arse and copping yourself on to what the Troubles were actually like. And the way to do that is to look to history books, not Hollywood.
You strike me as the worst type of Armchair Republican - one doubtless brought up miles from the north, in an area little or no impacted by the Troubles, with a degree of understanding of what was actually going on that is no better than your average misty-eyed Irish-American. Your inability to even acknowedge the naked criminality welded to the IRA's activities for decades leaves me with no other conclusion.
Have you even done more than a few fleeting visits to the north in your life ??
bennocelt
31/10/2006, 2:33 PM
It shouldn't take me to explain the difference between uniformed insurgents standing and fighting against a uniformed enemy, and IRA members knee-capping people they fell out with or dealing drugs.
For your homework, may I suggest taking your head out of your arse and copping yourself on to what the Troubles were actually like. And the way to do that is to look to history books, not Hollywood.
Have you even done more than a few fleeting visits to the north in your life ??
m collins, and guerilla warfare?:rolleyes:
how many ira guys were shot by the british army? no exactly a good career choice by a criminal!:rolleyes: easier ways to make money, but oh yeah its not politics!
can you tell me please how the nationalists were expected to defend themselves in the 60's and 70's?
why are you so ashamed of your history?
**********************
Mod Edit: Thread closed as pointless debate starting to go for personal attacks.
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