Staunton's Contradiction

[NeilMcD]

I request any journalist who reads this forum to pose this question to Staunton.

Why bring back Stephen Carr out of retirement when we have plenty of cover at right back and not bring back Carsley from retirement when we are short of defensive midfielders.

Staunton is not consistant in his approach to dealing with issues.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm convinced he feels compelled to play Carr having persuaded him to return.

Finnan for right back, permanently.

[ifk101]

I'm convinced he feels compelled to play Carr having persuaded him to return.

How true, just goes to show that Stan is stubborn and unwilling to undo mistakes to save face. This stubborn-streak is the same reason he won't pick Paddy McCarthy (because he has previously stated he needs another year of development) but is willing to call up the "developed" St.Ledger and McShane, and the same reason why he won't bring Carsley into the squad (because he previously stated the door was closed for "oldies" like Carsley).

[drinkfeckarse]

I think everyone can agree that Staunton has made some weird decisions so far in his young managerial career. No consistency whatsover. The McCarthy and St. Ledger thing took the biscuit for me.

[NeilMcD]

With respect Mc Carthy and St Ledger are fringe players at best at the moment so I am not totally annoyed with those decisions. But saying he wants to build for the future and yet tries to get Stephen Carr back in a position we are very strong in and does not do the same for Carsley in a position we are weak, does not make sense to me.

[pete]

The "Carsley for Ireland" cheerleading is quiet possibly the funniest thing to happen on foot.ie for years.

- How many people were sad he retired in the first place
- I can never remember anyone saying Carsley even had an ok game for Ireland.

Too many people see 5 minutes Premiership highlights & think a player great. Sky Sports have a lot to answer for.

Carsley offers nothing extra to the irish squad that Kilbane, O'Shea etc... already give. He is an extremely limited player (he not called the crab for nothing) who i think i've never seen hit a forward pass for Ireland.

:rolleyes:

[NeilMcD]

Pete have you not seen posts in other threads about Carsley. We are not saying he is a fantastic player and the reason that there was not too many people going mad when he retired was due to the fact we had Roy Keane playing there.

What Carsley will offer us is some defensive stability in midfield and the abilty to keep the ball and not give it away. Something which O Shea and Kilbane do all the time. It is a sign that we are very poor in that area that we are calling for Carsley to be called back but needs must.

[eirebhoy]

I can't agree with that at all Pete. Kilbane can't be compared with him as Kilbane could only dream of playing in the holding role. He's a much better option than O'Shea while Douglas is the only other alternative from the rest of the squad. imo he plays in the most important position on the field so if Everton are such a better team with him in their starting XI then he must be doing something right.

Ian Harte is was castigated by the Irish support for years but by God how I'd love to have him in our team now. :)

[pete]

I stand my belief that Carsley only looks good as he never tries anything.

[Billsthoughts]

The "Carsley for Ireland" cheerleading is quiet possibly the funniest thing to happen on foot.ie for years.

- How many people were sad he retired in the first place
- I can never remember anyone saying Carsley even had an ok game for Ireland.

:rolleyes:

Agree totally with this. What was it that Tony O Reilly said about his rugby career? The best games he ever played for Ireland were the ones he missed.
Just on the Staunton thing. I think if he explained his decisions a bit better they might not look so bad or look so random. good article by Brady at weekend. Basically said he should realise that he is not just talking to a journalist but to the public. Also that people arent stupid and wont fall for things like "we were all magnificent". The fact is we appointed a manger who had yet to learn his trade so misunderstandings like this were inevitable. Would not bother me too much bout Carsley not being in the team. but the fact that the obvious solution would have been just to pick him in the squad and not play him would suggest that carsley didnt want this.

[Noelys Guitar]

The first responsibility of any Ireland manager is to to put out the best team possible. Stans building for 2010 bull**** is exactly that. He should have included Carsley who is playing the best football of his career. And unlike O'Shea and Kilbane is highly rated by his clubs fans. Who do watch their players every match and not on sky' highlights!

[Stuttgart88]

I think if he explained his decisions a bit better they might not look so bad or look so random. Agree totally. It's not so much his decisions, more his (lack of) communication of why they're made.

"I've picked X because he brings this to the party."

"We've been looking at Y, think he's good, but Z is more experienced / versatile."

"If player W continues to do well at his club it'll be hard for us to leave him out."

That type of thing quells all speculation about whether he really knows what's going on. He's perfectly entitled to make value jugments & we don't have to agree with them, but leaving people guessing is dangerous. Just like Kerr with Dunne, Reid, Delap etc. Ultimately it turns people against you.

Can anyone post the Brady article?

[NeilMcD]

Lads I dont know about you but I think X should be in the squad. From the games I have seen so far this season he has been top class. Surely Staunton should make X captain also.

[Billsthoughts]

Soccer


Looking fragile but maximum points necessary
Soccer Analyst Liam Brady



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IT'S not quite do or die for our qualification hopes, but it's getting to that stage. When you look at how the Czech Republic and Germany have started, both with maximum points and both with highly-impressive performances the last day out, it leaves us already playing catch up and we need to get into the mix before it's too late. Steve Staunton won't want to hear this but these are critical games and I would go so far as to say they are must-win games. Sure, a draw against the Czechs wouldn't be disastrous but if we really have ambitions, we need maximum points over the next 10 days. We need to lay down a marker now to show our intentions.

It's not so long since we were in Cyprus and on that occasion we struggled badly and were quite fortunate to come away with a win. The problem on that occasion was that we were reaching a critical stage of the campaign under Brian Kerr but even though we are only a game into this campaign, Staunton now finds himself in a similar, critical situation. That's because of the German game and also because of the embarrassing result and performance against Holland. We are going to Nicosia a little fragile and that's where Staunton will have to step up and get his team right. He must get them confident, get their mental strength up, get them believing and most importantly, make sure they don't buckle because of the situation they find themselves in. It's at times like this that a manager has to stand up and show himself to be a leader.

Staunton is still learning, but he has to learn quickly in this job. There were a few things that he did wrong against Germany in the way he handled himself.

While he shouldn't be fazed by the press, the last thing he wants to do is give them extra ammunition. Getting himself sent off did just that and suddenly at a critical stage of a big night for him and the team he found himself away from it all, not able to make the crucial calls and decisions. I remember when I got my first managerial job at Celtic, I found if very hard initially to detach myself from what was going on. But that cannot happen and you have to rid yourself of that attitude because it affects your ability to perform. You have to have a clear mind when it comes to making calls.

He also must conduct himself much better when it comes to press conferences. I said after the Germany game that he needs to realise he is speaking to the public, not just one reporter.

Everyone is listening in and judging him and giving one-word answers won't help him. Nor will getting angry when a question hits too close to the mark, like when he was asked about his reasoning behind the Duff substitution in Stuttgart. He said that every one of his players were magnificent that night which was a stupid thing to say. People aren't mugs and they aren't going to buy into that.

But it is for that reason I think he won't change a whole lot about his lineup. If it were possible I think he'd change nothing. It will be an anxious weekend for him, waiting to see who comes out available after all the games, more so for him because he doesn't have the same resources of a German or Czech manager. But if everyone did come out healthy, I wouldn't make too many changes myself. I would stick with the back four. I thought they didn't do too badly against Germany. Stephen Carr was a big plus and he looked like the Carr in the early days of his international career. Obviously having Steve Finnan at left-back isn't ideal but you can only work with what's available.

In midfield I would take out John O'Shea. He is more comfortable as a defensive midfielder but against Cyprus we need someone dictating things, controlling the tempo and making the space.

Liam Miller might fit the bill and if he did come in, he has to make sure plenty of ball gets to Damien Duff . . . if fit . . . and Robbie Keane. They are the players we rely on to open teams up and they need more ball if they are to do that.

It's an early stage and people can't be judging Steve until the group unravels.

He is new and he has to find his feet. The worry though, is that if points are dropped in Cyprus things could unravel very quickly.

That's the situation now, but looking forward to the future for a minute, it's my opinion we have to have a long-term plan to produce better players for the Irish team. I'd be only happy to speak to the people in the FAI if they wanted because we have to get a philosophy and a culture into Irish schoolboy football to produce better players technically. It's too late having them go to England at 15 and 16 if they are not technically proficient and the English clubs won't be concentrating on it because it has to be there already.

We've got to address that problem ourselves.


Copyright of Sunday Tribune.

[Stuttgart88]

Lads I dont know about you but I think X should be in the squad. From the games I have seen so far this season he has been top class. Surely Staunton should make X captain also.You're right Neil. Sorry. Stan's communication has been top notch so far.

Q: Steve, Why did you make that decision?
A: You tell me

Quality

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks for posting the article. Can't disagree with any of it but I think Brady could have been more committal about who he'd pick in midfield.

Interesting that FAI seemingly hasn't ever consulted him about youth development. Then again, I wonder what Brady's opinion of the Technical Development Plan is, or has he even seen it.

[gustavo]

.

That's the situation now, but looking forward to the future for a minute, it's my opinion we have to have a long-term plan to produce better players for the Irish team. I'd be only happy to speak to the people in the FAI if they wanted because we have to get a philosophy and a culture into Irish schoolboy football to produce better players technically. It's too late having them go to England at 15 and 16 if they are not technically proficient and the English clubs won't be concentrating on it because it has to be there already.

We've got to address that problem ourselves.


Copyright of Sunday Tribune.

A Face wont like to see that:)

[endabob1]

The "Carsley for Ireland" cheerleading is quiet possibly the funniest thing to happen on foot.ie for years.

- How many people were sad he retired in the first place
- I can never remember anyone saying Carsley even had an ok game for Ireland.

Too many people see 5 minutes Premiership highlights & think a player great. Sky Sports have a lot to answer for.

Carsley offers nothing extra to the irish squad that Kilbane, O'Shea etc... already give. He is an extremely limited player (he not called the crab for nothing) who i think i've never seen hit a forward pass for Ireland.

:rolleyes:

To be fair in the past Carsley was well down the pecking order behind Keane, Holland & Kinsella but we no longer have that sort of strenght in depth so like him or not he is playing at a higher level than most of our other central midfield options and should be at least considered for a starting place.
Personally if everyone was fit I'd shove him in the centre with Steven Reid and move O'Shea to Left Full. He's no world beater but he wins tackles and doesn't give away sloppy ball, although he did give away a sloppy penalty once ;)

[Noelys Guitar]

Thanks Liamo. You agree with my recent posts! But McGeady instead of Miller to supply the ammuniton to Keane Doyle and Duff

[BaZmO*]

To be fair in the past Carsley was well down the pecking order behind Keane, Holland & Kinsella but we no longer have that sort of strenght in depth so like him or not he is playing at a higher level than most of our other central midfield options and should be at least considered for a starting place.
But isn't the problem that Carsley doesn't want to be just "considered" he wants to be guaranteed his place?

[Kingdom]

My interpretation is that Fester wants to be guarenteed a place in the match day squad. Which is fair enough. Whats the point in having someone like him in a 23man squad of a country aiming at WC2010 if he's not going to start? Also there's the little matter of his mentally handicapped child too.

[endabob1]

But isn't the problem that Carsley doesn't want to be just "considered" he wants to be guaranteed his place?

I think his comments implied that he doesn't want to turn up for 3 days at a time and not even be on the bench, it's a contentious one but given our lack of depth in central midfield I think he would be in my first 16 everytime.

[NeilMcD]

Thanks for posting the article. Can't disagree with any of it but I think Brady could have been more committal about who he'd pick in midfield.



Its all become clear, Billsthoughts is really Liam Brady.

[Billsthoughts]

yet you will probably go on to claim that I am somehow trying to wind you up:rolleyes:
but now you mention it I would play two of miller,douglas and quinn in central midfield.

[NeilMcD]

All decent footballers if perhaps a little lightweight.

[DmanDmythDledge]

With respect Mc Carthy and St Ledger are fringe players at best at the momentWe've only got Dunne and O'Brien ahead of St Ledger, McShane and McCarthy- they can hardly be considered fringe players.

[Stuttgart88]

I reckon John O'Shea is our 3rd centre-back. Please can Fergie sell him to someone who'd like to play him there every week.

[CraftyToePoke]

does anyone else reckon McCarthys no show at the end of season gathering last season through injury, despite having played every minute of leicesters run in, may be a factor in Stauntons continuing omission of him?

[NeilMcD]

We've only got Dunne and O'Brien ahead of St Ledger, McShane and McCarthy- they can hardly be considered fringe players.


They have about 2 caps between them so I think they are fringe players.

[Billsthoughts]

All decent footballers if perhaps a little lightweight.

I would describe john o shea as fairly lightweight.
maybe we need to cut our cloth to suit the players we have rather than try and find players to fit the way we play.

and can the title of this thread be changed to something a bit less surreal...

[NeilMcD]

I like the title of the thread to be honest. Yeah I agree O Shea is lightweight too. We dont have any really aggressive players which you need in central midfield.

Keane said it on Sky the other weke all top players need to have a bit of the devil in them when talking about Paul Scholes. Souness says the same time and time again. I think this Irish team is too nice and lacks someone with a bit of bite and nastiness about them.

[Stuttgart88]

does anyone else reckon McCarthys no show at the end of season gathering last season through injury, despite having played every minute of leicesters run in, may be a factor in Stauntons continuing omission of him?Interesting, the thought had crossed my mind actually. Yet, he allows Carr to go off and have a nice holiday before unretiring.

I can't see any reason why McCarthy wouldn't have turned up if there was any way he was fit, can you?

[Stuttgart88]

They have about 2 caps between them so I think they are fringe players.I think they have zero between them.

[Billsthoughts]

I like the title of the thread to be honest. .

Its sounds like a maths theorem
thing I dont like about Staunton is he was brought in to change things and has changed very little.
he has basically been given a blank cheque to experiment with a four year deal yet he doesnt.
very frustrating. I think people would be a lot more sympathetic if he showed a bit more adventure.

[DmanDmythDledge]

They have about 2 caps between them so I think they are fringe players.
So who are the back up players then?

[NeilMcD]

Fringe, backup the same to me, to be honest. Did Mc Carthy ever play for us, I thought he did, but then again that was against Celtic.

[CraftyToePoke]

Interesting, the thought had crossed my mind actually. Yet, he allows Carr to go off and have a nice holiday before unretiring.

I can't see any reason why McCarthy wouldn't have turned up if there was any way he was fit, can you?

i think the Carr example is just another example of the at times mind boggling inconstencies if the Stan era, Stutt, different players seem to benefit or lose out, from seemingly very differing decision making processes.

but as for McCarthy, no i cant see why he wouldnt have shown up if fit,or even if carrying a slight knock, but i cant shake the feeling that someting has gone on here, maybe Staunton was unconvinced of the players story and has decided to make an example of him.

viewing him six months on, he certainly would appear to have the shortsighted stubborness to take such a view.

it does seem strange to me that despite leicester having secured their place in the division several games before the end of the season, McCarthy played every game thereafter, and then cried of the Ireland gathering with an injury he had supposedy been playing through (ankle i think) for several games.strange.

it would make sense,i think.

[geysir]

I like the Brady article.
The important factors are the ones he mentioned about mental strength, confidence and not buckling what ever the circumstance. IMO these elements are vastly more important than the who plays where debate. Without Keane all those factors came more into play in various games and to good players like Kenny and Kav. Kerr couldn't understand what was happening.
When the Germany game was finished, Stan made sure to fully congratulate every player individually as they came off the pitch. That's the body language that's of any importance to interpret post match after that defeat.

[Zidane]

Does this mean that Carsley will be involved in the San Marino away game.

I get the impression that Stan has realised that he should have picked him for the two next games, but being stubborn he wont bring him into the squad at the moment.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=419631&CPID=219&clid=116&lid=554&title=Carsley+clarifies+ROI+availability

[tetsujin1979]

This was posted on chatsoccer.net earlier today:

From the Everton website: http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/cars-clears-ireland-confusion.html

Lee Carsley has cleared up the confusion regarding his current international situation.

He has spoken to Republic of Ireland manager Stephen Staunton to inform him of his desire to represent Ireland in the future.

Having previously been unavailable for international duty, Carsley made it known that he wanted to return when he recovered from injury.

He is now fully fit and was disappointed to miss out on the latest Ireland squad named last week.

But he has since spoken with the Republic boss to iron out his future.

He told evertonTV: "I have spoken with him now. We got our wires crossed because he thought I wanted to do something else.

"I have had a chat now and it is all sorted.

"Hopefully when the next squad is announced I will be involved," he added.

[Noelys Guitar]

Stan dials Carsley on his mobile and asks him are you available for selection for the games against Cyprus and the Czech republic. Surely that is all it would have taken.

[pete]

Stan dials Carsley on his mobile and asks him are you available for selection for the games against Cyprus and the Czech republic. Surely that is all it would have taken.

Carsley declared he was retired. It is up to the player to declare himself available. Shoud Staunton also do that for Holland, Cunningham, Kiely before announcing every squad?

Anyway whether we agree he should be in the squad or not it shows how low confidence in the current squad is that many people calling for Festers return. :eek:

[Scram]

I request any journalist who reads this forum to pose this question to Staunton.

Why bring back Stephen Carr out of retirement when we have plenty of cover at right back and not bring back Carsley from retirement when we are short of defensive midfielders.

Staunton is not consistant in his approach to dealing with issues.

Because, I am now convinced, He IS a GOBSH!TE!!

-He wanted to give the impression that he was his own man "I'm duh Gahhfer" with statements about how he was going to be flexible etc. use the granny rule to maximum effect and bring players back if possible

- Bringing Carr out of retirement was a major coup in his eyes, and introducing Terry Dixon was giving a sign that he was his own man. "I'm duh Gahhfer"

- He is now obliged to play Carr at right back despite his ineptness and despite Steve Finnan proving that this is his position.

- He played a 4-4-2 v Germany and it was "more of the same" as if Kerr or McCarthy has never left and he was only short of bringing Mark Kinsella back into midfield. His own man! flexibillity....my h0le!. Dixon, the Theo Walcott of Ireland. And kicking that water bottle, how pathetic! We deserved nthing out of that game.

-He wanted to give the impression that he was his own man "I'm duh Gahhfer" with statements about how he was going to be flexible etc. use the granny rule to maximum effect and bring players back if possible

- Carlsley has played every Everton game and been more thatn impressive. Alan Quinn although a player of potential hasn't being playing for Sheffiled Utd. and has little experience a thtis level. There is no comparison.

-Despite us having only 5 midfielders in the Premiership, he left Andy Reid out of the squad v Germany because He's duh gaffer.

-Carlsley and Andy Reid have to be our best options in midfield out of what we have available, yet Stan can't even see that and calling up Quinn before Carlsey makes no sense. (I know Charlton are not making Reid available v Cyprus) Carlsley has said he was available at least twice.

[Qwerty]

I'm getting to the point where I am writing off this campaign. Basically we are rebuilding in the key areas of central defense and central midfield.

Stan did point out McCarthy's disciplinary record as the stumbling block to his inclusion. I think this is fair enough as we have O'Shea and the promisong St Ledger. Honestly McCarthy is certainly ahead of McShane at the mo though McShane is probbaly the better long term prospect.

Central midfield is dire, we really have nobody that is obviously international class. I think bringing in Carsley, who could never get past Kinsella or Holland, is not the way forward but we could use him for a game of two to bring stability but there is NO guarantee that he would - so is it worth the risk? I think Douglas can do a job alongside O'Shea or Miller.

Giving playing time to Kavangh is a complete waste of time. Hoping that Joey O'Brien and Owen Garvan get fit soon as these are probably our two best prospects.

[dr_peepee]

Can any of us really say for sure who is the best from Mcshane, McCarthy and St Ledger. I mean Crafty aside we don't get too much exposure to the Championship. Maybe St Ledger is just the best of a mediocre bunch??

But there's definately a lack of consistency and transparency in Stans thinking. And this B****x attitude some managers have in that they account to no-one in the media riles me big time. The media are just that. The medium between him as manager and us the fans. And so long as the questions posed are relevent and not detremental to the squads efforts, Stan owes US and not necessarily the reporter the answer.

This side is without a doubt, player for player, the worse squad I can recall. And while that will be cited if we don't get the desired results over the next week, if Stan doesn't account for some of his actions and decisions I really think he should be ousted.

We should have gone for Roy Hodgson!!!

[OwlsFan]

I request any journalist who reads this forum to pose this question to Staunton.

Why bring back Stephen Carr out of retirement when we have plenty of cover at right back and not bring back Carsley from retirement when we are short of defensive midfielders.

Staunton is not consistant in his approach to dealing with issues.

I would have thought the Carr thing was obvious. We have very little at left back so he wants Finnan to play there - hence the return of Carr to play right full. This is consistent - you mightn't agree with it but there is logic in it. So that answers the question you pose for this whole thread.

[BradyIsMyHero]

Statement from Carsley on the Everton website:
"Lee Carsley has cleared up the confusion regarding his current international situation.

He has spoken to Republic of Ireland manager Stephen Staunton to inform him of his desire to represent Ireland in the future.

Having previously been unavailable for international duty, Carsley made it known that he wanted to return when he recovered from injury.

He is now fully fit and was disappointed to miss out on the latest Ireland squad named last week.

But he has since spoken with the Republic boss to iron out his future.

He told evertonTV: "I have spoken with him now. We got our wires crossed because he thought I wanted to do something else.

"I have had a chat now and it is all sorted.

"Hopefully when the next squad is announced I will be involved,"

So, Stan hadn't spoken to Carsley ? What a muppet

[Stuttgart88]

Some very good points above. I particularly agree that Staunton should be made aware that the press is a conduit to inform the public.

It's true, Staunton's tenure so far has been full of inconsistencies & communications gaffs.

On the Paddy McCarthy summer call-up it was only reported fleetingly that McCarthy was injured. It was pointed out to me on foot.ie by eirebhoy I think, yet I scour the press and FAI website daily for reports and I never noticed mention of an injury.

I think we're being spun a right old yarn over the Carsley availability. As Noely says, it's a simple issue. There is no room for ambiguity. If I ring a mate for a drink I ask can he go for a drink. Within 5 seconds I know whether he's available. Same applies to whether Carsley can play football next week. Don't believe for a second that what we read is what happened.

You can be cynical and say that kicking the water bottle in Stuttgart was for show, or just simply naive, but I watched him throughout the game & actually liked the way he was shouting at the players throughout. Team selection appears to be straight from the Charlton/Mick/Kerr manual alright (admittedly only on the basis of ONE competitive game) but I've seen nothing yet to suggest he hasn't got the players fired up.

He's perfectly entitled to make value judgments over who of SSL, McShane & McCarthy to pick. Let's hope that that's what he has done & based on good foundation.

I'll be very interested in seeing the teams he picks over the coming days, and how he handles the media.

[Noelys Guitar]

Statement from Carsley on the Everton website:
"Lee Carsley has cleared up the confusion regarding his current international situation.

He has spoken to Republic of Ireland manager Stephen Staunton to inform him of his desire to represent Ireland in the future.

Having previously been unavailable for international duty, Carsley made it known that he wanted to return when he recovered from injury.

He is now fully fit and was disappointed to miss out on the latest Ireland squad named last week.

But he has since spoken with the Republic boss to iron out his future.

He told evertonTV: "I have spoken with him now. We got our wires crossed because he thought I wanted to do something else.

"I have had a chat now and it is all sorted.

"Hopefully when the next squad is announced I will be involved,"

So, Stan hadn't spoken to Carsley ? What a muppet

Exactly. And we have had the Paddy McCarthy nonsense when he stated that someone had already watched him in a game that hadn't yet taken place.

[Ozymandias]

I have no grá for staunton but as he is the manager of the Irish team i hope he does well. The way he reacts to the press and the obvious lack of detail he offers when he makes a decision make me fear that if we have a bad result in cyprus (like a draw) and we are poor against the czechs..then he could be the first Irish manager to have "you don't know what your doing" chanted at him in lansdowne....i hope this doesn't happen but unless the Fai get off their arses and realise bobby robson is not coming back and that stan needs guidance prompto then it will all end in tears for both stan and the supporters. We have a small pool of players to choose from and still the debate he has caused over this squad is amazing......he needs to change his stubborn persona..if he gets the fans onside he will draw some comfort ..otherwise forget it