Staunton's Contradiction [Archive] - Page 2

OwlsFan

04/10/2006, 7:42 AM

Given the title of this thread I've got to put in this quote from Staunton:

"But we�re not going to be not trying to qualify for this tournament."

Two negatives = a positive I suppose.

In fairness, I agreed with a lot of what else he said in the press conference yesterday, and even if I didn't, at least he was giving clarity on some issues. Clarity beats ambiguity any day.

But how important really are soundbites at press conferences ? Big Jack could barely bring himself to talk to the media and I seldom pay much heed to them. It's what he says to the players on the training ground and in the dressing room that counts. The rest is PR stuff and doesn't matter if the team performs well - if it doesn't then the fans latch on to it and pick holes in every word. If we are successful no one gives a damn about them.

Stuttgart88

04/10/2006, 7:49 AM

Here's the rest of what he said, from today's Examiner:

Said Staunton: �I�m not saying [Carsley's] not in my plans but at the moment I�m going along with what lads I have. They deserve a chance because they�ve been in the squad since I took over the job. I�m looking forward. It would be a kick in the teeth to the lads who are in there. They have to grow up and take the bull by the horns. If they get their chance on Saturday or Wednesday, they have to do it because that�s what I�m looking for in the future.�

Staunton was not inclined to go along with the pointed suggestion that emergency situations demand emergency solutions.

�We�ve got players in those positions,� he insisted. �They�ll be the ones in the possession of the jersey. How they do will determine whether I need to call people back into the squad or not. In central midfield we still have two that played in Germany, Kevin Kilbane and John O� Shea.

�As regards experience, the only way the players in this squad will get experience is by playing. As I�ve said all along it�s a rebuilding job. If it�s a pressure situation, they�ve got to deal with it. They�re doing that every week at their clubs and this is another step, another level for them. They�ll be ready for it. Whoever gets the chance has to take it.�

Mention of KK and JOS together scares me, though surely one must move to left-full now.

I won't be too disappointed if O'Shea & Miller play central mid.

I think it's clear that Staunton is prepared to trust young players or those yet to properly make their mark, like Miller. Fair enough, if that's how he's approaching it then good luck. I supported Mick during his tough start as he was trying to do the same.

Given what he's been saying can he possibly leave McGeady on the bench? He acknowledged his great club form on SKY Sports News last night.

Here's hoping whoever he entrusts rises to the occasion. If they're good enough they'll do it. McGeady still has time on his side but for the likes of Miller or Douglas it could be a career defining week. It's also worth noting that John O'Shea can no longer hide behind the excuse of potential. At his age & with his club experience NOW is the time for him to step up. If he can't do it now he never will.

Stuttgart88

04/10/2006, 7:51 AM

Owls Fan, I was typing as you responded. Personally I read nothing into that quote, I just thought it was funny in the context of the thread's title, "Staunton's Contradiction". My comments in the post above more accurately portray what I thought of Staunton's remarks to the press.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 9:04 AM

I was watching Setanta last night and a show called the full SPL, Setanta version of Match of the Day. On it where Ally Mc Coist and Walter Smith and the ex manager of Dundee , Duff.

Anyway they devoted a half hour at leat to Scotland internationals in the coming week.

I thought it was refreshing to see a managment team been so open on a show such as this.

OwlsFan

04/10/2006, 9:44 AM

We have a small pool of players to choose from and still the debate he has caused over this squad is amazing......he needs to change his stubborn persona..if he gets the fans onside he will draw some comfort ..otherwise forget it

The debate is because up to recently the team pretty much picked itself. It has very little to do with anything Staunton has or hasn't done. We now have a collection of mediocre midfielders, none of whom stands out for selection so there is bound to be debate. Don't use that to attack him.

As for his stubborn persona - Big Jack didn't exactly fall over himself to please the media. As I said elsewhere, results are all that matters and he'll live or die on the basis of those and his persona will be irrelevant. It might just hasten his departure slightly if things go pear shaped.

Jerry The Saint

04/10/2006, 11:25 AM

As I�ve said all along it�s a rebuilding job.

I'm not sure why Staunton is allowed to get away with this attitude. These are more or less the same players that were one result away from qualifying for the last two tournaments (minus Cunningham and Roy Keane from the first choice team). The vast majority of the press and, most importantly, John Delaney said that the players were good enough but failure to qualify was down to the manager - Kerr not having adequate experience of the game in England to motivate our millionaire footballers. Failing to qualify after his first full campaign and, according to Delaney, "a drop in our FIFA world ranking" :eek: were legitimate reasons to fire Kerr.

Our best players - Given, Finnan, Duff, Keane - are supposedly in their prime right now. I can't see that other key players in Staunton's team like Carr, Harte, O'Shea, S. Reid, Kilbane will be better prepared for 2010 than 2008. Why write off this tournament so easily?

It's a blatant exercise in managing expectations to cover Delaney's ass for making this appointment. If Ireland finish top-4 in this group the spin will be that it was an excellent achievement and a platform to build on.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 11:27 AM

Just been listening to the FAI podcast with Kevin Mc Donald, He sounds more impressive then Staunton to be honest.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 11:29 AM

Exactly Jerry.
Its pure PR to justify what was a complete gamble in appointing a managerial nobody.
Delaney is a complete chancer.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 11:44 AM

Tottally agree with you on that.

Anybody see the interview with Kevin Mc Donald on TV3. I did not see it but I have been informed of the contents of the interview. I did not realise that Mc Donald is still with Villa. Staunton spends a lot of time down at Vialls training ground and has long chats with O Neill and Mc Donald about football tactics etc.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 11:47 AM

I hope they are one way chats and he is listening carefully!
for some reason I think we will do alrite next two games....expectation is at an all time low....might suit the players...

Stuttgart88

04/10/2006, 12:00 PM

How exactly does one listen to a podcast? Is there a transcript anywhere? I'm not very good at that type of thing.

I have iTunes at home but not at my desk at work.

TonyD

04/10/2006, 12:34 PM

Exactly Jerry.
Its pure PR to justify what was a complete gamble in appointing a managerial nobody.
Delaney is a complete chancer.

Yup. And when it all goes pear shaped he should be the one to carry the can. He's spent the last few years backstabbing and plotting against every CEO until he could finally land the prize for himself. There should be no hiding place for him.

eirebhoy

04/10/2006, 1:08 PM

How exactly does one listen to a podcast? Is there a transcript anywhere? I'm not very good at that type of thing.

I have iTunes at home but not at my desk at work.
It's just an mp3.

http://www.fai.ie/audio/fai_october_2006_1.mp3

More on the right here:
http://www.fai.ie/podcasts/

galwayhoop

04/10/2006, 1:20 PM

first things first: we are at an all time low (as long as i can remember anyhow) when it comes to players for our international squad. the fact people are debating about lee carsley and paddy mccarthy (who??) being left out is a sign of this.

look at the central midfield options: steven reid & kilbane (converted wingers), o'shea (converted full back), liam miller (best days were at celtic when playin in the hole behind front 2 in a 5 man midfield), douglas & quinn are still only starting their carreers and not ready for international arena.

centre backs: dunne & o'brien - dunne is quite good but o'brien doesn't even get his game and was only ever average anyway. mcshane, st ledger & mccarthy are in the same boat as douglas & quinn above.

look at whats available before the manager is slaughtered. there is also very little coming on the assembly line and there will be less in years to come. i know when i was playin underage soccer there were many players brought over to england for trials etc, much much more than there is nowadays so it dosen't bode well for the future. even when u look at the young players we have coming through they are in the main small light lads when the trend in football is moving toward big, fast atheletes.

our expectations have been inflated by the over performing of our national side for almost 20 years but now, like the northern ireland team of the late 70's and 80's, the fear has to be that we may look back on the time from 1988 - 2002 as our 'golden era'.

in fairness the only quality players we have are duff, keane, given and possibly dunne and in fairness are they true greats like giles, brady, keane, razor, whelan, lawerenson ... etc players who regulary won silverware and european cups and so on. excluding given are the others even top notch - would any of the so called top 4 teams in the premiership fight to sign them?

the above is just a thought and maybe negative but it has to be a fear. on a brighter note i hope we get 6 points in the next week and go on to prove all my mumblings above to be just pure tripe!

eirebhoy

04/10/2006, 1:53 PM

I certainly think it's negative. :)

Here's something I posted on a non-Ireland forum earlier as the Irish on their were overly pessemistic:

I think we've as good a first XI as we've ever had in the last decade tbh.

GK: Given - imo Only Buffon is better but nobody can argue top 3 premiership keeper. Newcastle player of the year, Ireland player of the year and Premiership keeper of the year.

DR: Finnan - I look at Mark Wilson and I see Steve Finnan. He'll go his whole career never making mistakes but rarely getting enough credit. Finnan is another player I'd have in the top 3 premiership right backs. He's Liverpool's highest rated player in the Actim Index and look at his stats here:
http://home.skysports.com/optastats.aspx?c...iverpool&cpid=8 (http://home.skysports.com/optastats.aspx?clid=14&hlid=OPTA_Liverpool&cpid=8)

DC: Dunne - Another very underrated player. He got motm in Old Trafford, Highbury and Stamford Bridge in the one season which shows how good he is against the best. Man City player of the year for the last 2 years in the row (including SWP's excellent season before joining Chelsea).

MR: McGeady - We know all about McGeady. The future star of the Ireland team without a shadow of a doubt.

ML: Duff - He was voted as the best left winger in the world by over a million on the FIFA website before he joined Chelsea. He should be at his peak now but Mourinho turned him into a player that forgot how to take on a man. Under Ranieri he was one of Chelsea's best players and his goals+assists almost matched his appearances. He'll get that back with a few months of freedom at Newcastle and will be back to the Damien Duff that terrorised every defence. In saying that, he bloody terrorised Sweden, Italy, Portugal and Croatia in friendlies in the past year or so so he certainly hasn't lost any of his ability.

MC: S.Reid - Since Hughes took over he has been played consistantly in central midfield and has done very well. So much so that Spurs tried to get him in the summer but he showed commitment by signing a new contract at Blackburn.

FC: Keane - Top scorer and player of the year in 3 of his 4 seasons at Spurs. His goalscoring ratio is improving every single year he scored 16 premiership goals with only Henry beating his goals per minutes played ratio. :)

FC: Doyle - The 4th player in our team that is the current player of the year at his club. 2nd highest scorer in the Championship last season with 18 and has started this season with 3 premiership goals. Reading's star player and Alan Shearer reckons he's the biggest bargain ever for a player of 21 at �60k.

That list of players is to try and list the spirits. :) We do have the players. It's far from a poor side. I've only listed 8 players there because I believe they are 8 really top players. The rest of the team is filled out with players like Ian Harte, Andy O'Brien and Lee Carsley

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 2:03 PM

I agree Eirebhoy and If we had someone like Walter Smith at Scotland managing our team or Toshack with Wales I would be confident. Both Scotland and Wales have better managers than us.

BaZmO*

04/10/2006, 2:11 PM

liam miller (best days were at celtic when playin in the hole behind front 2 in a 5 man midfield)
So did Celtic used to play a 3-4-1-2 formation when Miller was playing?

galwayhoop

04/10/2006, 2:29 PM

i know what your sayin eirebhoy but in fairness look at the clubs that these boys are player of the year at: reading, newcastle, man city and who was the fourth maybe keane at spurs. in fairness these are very medocire teams IMO. dunphy (and i'm not a major dunphy fan) got it right during the WC when he said that SKY has us bluffed into thinking that the premiership is the best in the world - maybe for excitement but not for quality. you went through 8 players the other 3 o'brien, harte and carsley are definately no world beaters and how many are in the squad!

keane has buckets of ability but IMO has never delivered his true potential.
given - undoubted class.
doyle - proved to be a good championship player and looks like he may make the grade at premiership, i saw him in stuttgart and he has a lot to do before he is of international grade.
finnan - your right, mr. dependable
dunne - good player - best we have and looks to be fairly consistent of late.
s. reid - to be good at blackburn is 1 thing but if you are telling me that he is a solid international central nmidfielder at this point i don't think so but he is young and may make the grade in time - not at the moment tho
duff - again was class around 2002 - 2004 but is off the boil for at least 2 years, i hope he can return to the duffer we all knew and loved but i don't think he has been anything to write home about in a competitive ireland game since WC 2002.
Mr. McGeady - you say 'we know all about mr. mcgeady' i say he has not started a competitive game for ireland, looked out of his depth in CL v Man U and is still only a child finding his way - one for the future yes but again this is in the future and for all we know he could go same as liam millar and andy reid i.e. backwards! or dissapear altogether aka colin healy, alan lee or stephen mcphail (although i believe he is doing a lazarus at the moment).

point is we have players of average international ability all the way through our squad and i'm am not optomistic for qualification for Euro08 or WC2010. even during the late 80's and 90's we had massive players playing for massive english clubs but they were still required to perform 'greater than the sum of their parts' to excell whereas now we have fairly good players playing at average clubs so what are they going to have to do to excel? barr o'shea and finnan we have no players playing for the 'big 4' in england! this was never the case from 1988-2002 when we always had a couple at most of the top teams and maybe the odd lightweight in the 11 - now we have about 6 in each game!

galwayhoop

04/10/2006, 2:32 PM

So did Celtic used to play a 3-4-1-2 formation when Miller was playing?

under o'neill they played a 5-3-2 / 3-5-2 with wing backs, miller was in middle with lennon and petrov behind him and sutton and king henrik in front espically in european games. this is where he shone IMO. and away from home sometimes 4-5-1 with larsson up on his own

eirebhoy

04/10/2006, 3:12 PM

Mr. McGeady - you say 'we know all about mr. mcgeady'
It was a Celtic forum. McGeady will not follow Miller. I'm certain McGeady will be a success unless he gets a really serious injury.

As of now I believe those 8 players would make up a top 6 premiership team. I believe that's good enough to get us out of the group. As for the other 3 spots. Man Utd have shown that you can be good team with O'Shea in your team so a few weak spots won't do too much harm. ;)

As for Duff, his decline in form coincided with his decline in form at club level. He was our best player in the Euro 2004 qualifiers.

Ozymandias

04/10/2006, 3:25 PM

The debate is because up to recently the team pretty much picked itself. It has very little to do with anything Staunton has or hasn't done. We now have a collection of mediocre midfielders, none of whom stands out for selection so there is bound to be debate. Don't use that to attack him.

As for his stubborn persona - Big Jack didn't exactly fall over himself to please the media. As I said elsewhere, results are all that matters and he'll live or die on the basis of those and his persona will be irrelevant. It might just hasten his departure slightly if things go pear shaped.

Big jack would at least explain why he made a certain decison staunton won't...big jack was able to be stubborn as he was getting the results and as a result had the backing of the fans...at the moment staunton is alienating himself from everyone...fans media etc therefore his stubborn persona doesn't wash...i agree that results are the yardstick but he speaks with an air of resignation about this group therefore he should be less stubborn in his approach so as to get the fans onside ..we a\re not looking for much just an insight into his way of thinking when he makes changes etc....

endabob1

04/10/2006, 3:37 PM

galwayhoop

04/10/2006, 3:48 PM

eirebhoy,

my main point here is in relation to our central defenders and central midfielders, barr richard dunne, i feel we are scrapping the barrell. o'brien - crap (IMO). reid, o'shea, kilbane, millar are simply not out and out central players.

although if you had a strong influence in the team (ie roy keane, paul mcgrath etc) you will get away with one of the above with the strong natural leader / player beside them but if you have two make weights in midfield you will be unable to cut it with the good international teams. i was in stuttgart and my view is that we could hardly string 2 or 3 passes together, lacked any imagination and didn't really look like we knew what we were doing.

beside mcgrath in WC94 even phil babb looked like a quality player, beside keane kilbane looked quite good against the french (paris 04). if you think we have strong players in these ppositions you are welcome to your opinion but i disagree, for any team the core has to be strong and ours is most definately not therefore we will struggle. even with all our aiden mcgeadys, duffs, robbie keanes ... etc.

in football you need a good keeper, 2 strong centre backs, 2 good centre mids and at least one good striker to have a chance, at the moment we have 1 good keeper, 1 CB, 0 CM (IMO) and robbie is only ok at international level (when was last competetive goal against top class opposition=WC02). wingers and full backs are a bonus but without strength down the middle you are doomed to failure. maybe in a few years the reids, douglas' & mcCarthys of this world will step up but not for this campaign i fear.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 3:59 PM

When has Andy O Brien ever been crap for Ireland.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 4:10 PM

I have said it before Eirebhouy....you are obsessed with stats.
football is not a science.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 4:28 PM

I think Eirebhoy contributions to this forum are far more valuable than 99% of people including myself on this site. Just cause he is coherent and puts his point across well and does not insult or try to wind up people does not mean he is just treating it like a science. It is fairly obvious that he has a love for Mc Geady and Duffs style of play, hardly scientific players.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 4:36 PM

just for future referance(for when you play the poor mouth and accuse me of trying to "wind you up")....you replied to my post..not the other way around.....
It is possible for people to make decent points and retain a sense of humour. You should try take that on board. Stats are stats. They dont tell the whole picture. Robbie Keane , spurs player of the year last year? They were looking to off load him last January. Probably this January as well by the looks of things. All the stats in the world couldnt replace seeing things for your own eyes. they dont prove anything in football as far as I am concerned.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 4:40 PM

Where is the proof they were trying to offload him. That was paper speculation. Martin Jol said that he wanted 4 strikers and wanted to keep Robbie Keane. Something I repeated time and time again on this when he was going through a bad spell. People forget that form is temporary and class is permanent.

Again I am not making this personal rather than speaking in general terms. I was not referring to anybody in particular in the my last post rather saying that Eirebhoy gets on with the job of discussing football and not much else and I am sure he has a sense of humour outside of this forum and does not need it to get his laughs and kicks.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 4:42 PM

class is permanent alright but his poor form seems neverending.....
and there is never smoke without fire when it comes to transfers...

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 4:45 PM

I cant belive you have used there is never smoke without fire as a retort on a debate in relation to tabloid speculation on football transfers. Of course there is as another cliche is a newspaper does not refuse ink. These guys print anything and most of what they say in relation to transfers does not transpire to actually happen

Also 16 goals last season is hardly poor form he was one of the best players in the EPL between January and May last season.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 4:50 PM

Do they hand out titles for your form between january and may?
Yeah I did use that...one cliche deserves another and all that...
Tabloids are usually very well informed and he was top of most of their speculation lists. I dont know the exact stats tho.

NeilMcD

04/10/2006, 4:52 PM

No they dont, but form is form and his form was good between January and May,. YOu said it his bad form was neverending, and I am stating that it has only started this season, and he was fantastic against Sheff Utd so his bad form has probably started since the Germany game which was about 4 or 5 weeks ago. I agree his form of the last 4/5 weeks has not been great.

Billsthoughts

04/10/2006, 4:54 PM

so we agree that the "player of the season" stat suggests a little more than the reality of the situation delivers?

eirebhoy

04/10/2006, 6:29 PM

Eirebhoy While I agree that there is the basis of a very good side there the real issues are
1 - the management - Very poor at the moment, hopefully Stan will learn from his mistakes and will improve.
2 - Strenght in depth, after those 8 you have only O'Shea, Carsley and Carr playing anywhere near regularly in the top flight. Once injurys hit like now where we are going to miss 3 or 4 of those 8 we are up the creek.
Yeah I'd agree with that.

my main point here is in relation to our central defenders and central midfielders, barr richard dunne, i feel we are scrapping the barrell. o'brien - crap (IMO). reid, o'shea, kilbane, millar are simply not out and out central players.
I feel you're underestimating Reid. He's a central midfielder now and shouldn't be thought of as anything else. He may have started his Blackburn career on the right but he played in every position possible at Millwall. It appears he has found his position and I'm happy to have him. :)

when was last competetive goal against top class opposition
How many competitive games do we play against top class opposition? I'm sure if he gets the chances he'll take them. It's up the manager to play him right and the team to create a few chances. Also, he did score against Switzerland but it was wrongly ruled out for offside. ;)
Take out Euro 2004 and Wayne Rooney has scored against Macedonia and Liechtenstein in his entire career. Or Milan Baros who scored against Andorra, Macedonia, Finland and Armenia in the last qualifiers but couldn't score in the matches against Holland, Romania and playoff against Norway. They're honestly just 2 players that popped into my head but people seem to make a big fuss over Keane's international record which imo is excellent.

I have said it before Eirebhouy....you are obsessed with stats.
I don't think you'll see me trying to deny that. :)

BaZmO*

04/10/2006, 10:34 PM

Tabloids are usually very well informed and he was top of most of their speculation lists.
Ha ha, brilliant!!! :D

As for you're stats don't prove anything comment. WTF? Of course they do.

ccfcman

04/10/2006, 11:31 PM

Careful Pete, thats awfully subordinate talk of you, the masses will erm, amass against you!

Stan is doomed either way, and em, I'm not too pushed, wouldn't mind a few days in Cyprus and catch a match (:

Billsthoughts

05/10/2006, 7:29 AM

Ha ha, brilliant!!! :D

As for you're stats don't prove anything comment. WTF? Of course they do.

Can you prove that ?
with stats????

BaZmO*

05/10/2006, 9:04 AM

Can you prove that ?
with stats????
Henry scored 27 goals in the Premier League last year there by making him the league's top goalscorer.

Eirebhoy eat your heart out!!! ;)

NeilMcD

05/10/2006, 9:08 AM

Stuttgart88

05/10/2006, 10:08 AM

The analysis of some sports like cricket, baseball, tennis & rugby (own lineouts lost etc.) benefits greatly from use of stats. Relying on stats in football is less conclusive. Personally I think they're useful but only up to a point. Understanding the game is far more important.

I do think eirebhoy's stats of Connolly with & without Robbie Keane told a good story though.

Anyway, stats can be manipulated to suit any purpose. Daryl Huff's "Lying With Statistics" from the 1950s is a classic on the subject. More recently "Fooled by Randomness" is supposed to be excellent. John Allen Paolos' "Innumeracy" is a brilliant book on how the masses' failure to understand simple maths leads to rash decision making, and just generally stupid behaviour. My mum thinks it's a co-incidence if she meets her neighbour out shopping, I tell her it's a statistical certainty!

NeilMcD

05/10/2006, 10:35 AM

Thats mad I met your mother out shopping too. She said hello.

galwayhoop

05/10/2006, 10:46 AM

I feel you're underestimating Reid. He's a central midfielder now and shouldn't be thought of as anything else. He may have started his Blackburn career on the right but he played in every position possible at Millwall. It appears he has found his position and I'm happy to have him. :)

i actually think he is best in a central role and felt that he should of played more of a role up to now and espeically in WC2002 - altho in a wide role at the time. my point being that he is a decent player but i wouldn't overstate that by celebrating him as a finished article or even close to it. it may take him a while to become the finished article but he is as good as what is available. i don't think being the player of the year at blackburn is proof that he is a top preformer. i'll say it again teams like blackbun are mediocre in a european context. countries like cyprus have players playing in the greek league and IMO players in these leagues are not as far behind teams like blackburn as they once were.

regarding robbie keane he is without doubt our best striker but again without his goals in friendlies, penalties and goals against group bottom feders his record is not as impressive as one would hope. the comparison of rooney is interesting as he is not really a 30-goal-a-season man but more of a 'number 10' or support striker which IMO is also robbies best role. obviously rooney contributes alot more than his goalscoring alone but the difference is that england have others to take on the goal scoring and at the moment we don't. baros on the other hand is again an average player and against good defenders usually rendered ineffective.

again my main point is not meant to critise individual players merely to point out that i think we have a limited squad with few outstanding players and therefore the managers job is not easy, not makin excuses for stan as only time will tell if he is any good, personally i hope he is but i have serious misgivings

galwayhoop

05/10/2006, 10:49 AM

Thats mad I met your mother out shopping too. She said hello.

i met he too ............. not out shopping though!!!!:D :D :D

appologies for that one but i couldn't resist

Stuttgart88

05/10/2006, 10:58 AM

Well, she's a Celtic fan so you'd have had something to talk about.

Can we leave my mum out of it from now on pls?

NeilMcD

05/10/2006, 11:05 AM

Sorry Stuttgart, I did not want to go to that level, hope mine was taking for the innocent nature it was meant.

galwayhoop

05/10/2006, 11:09 AM

mine was so ar below the belt that i skint my knuckles on the canvas and i have already appolgised - i won't revisit it;) :o

Stuttgart88

05/10/2006, 11:13 AM

no offence taken

Billsthoughts

05/10/2006, 11:40 AM

The denial that stats mean anything and they cant be used in a debate is very handy for people who dont back any debate with facts.
Most debates are based on opinions, facts and ability to get your point across. A combination that Eirebhoy has.

yet another dig neil but we will let it go.....:rolleyes:

I dont agree . In fact I think they stifle debate about football if anything. Dismissing peoples opinions on the basis that you can qoute stats like number of passes completed is ridiculous in my opinion. The game is about opinions. I might think someone played rubbish you might say they played alrite. Quoting their stats for passes completed doesnt tell me anything. It might mean they always complete their passes or they always want to get rid of the ball.
who knows - who cares. Most people who enjoy the game just know!

galwayhoop

05/10/2006, 11:53 AM

fair point bill. you could have 90% passes completed in a game but have had little or no effect - could have gone sideways or backwards all day and someone could have a 40% accuracy while setting up 2 or 3 goals with class balls through the middle. similary a winger might have whipped in crosses all day but the lads up front could be useless thus destroying the wingers stats when in fact he could of been the best player on the pitch.

stats can be useful but only tell a part of the story - thats why you get match reports in words and not in a numerical format!