Cliftonville or Donegal Celtic for Eircom League? [Archive]

View Full Version : Cliftonville or Donegal Celtic for Eircom League?

Pages : [1] 2

finnpark

28/09/2006, 5:38 PM

thejollyrodger

28/09/2006, 5:44 PM

I wouldnt like to see Eircom LEague games being held in Windsor park but any NI club wanting to join should be able to

Poor Student

28/09/2006, 5:52 PM

The political climate has moved on from the 1970's and I don't think Cliftonville could justify jumping ship to UEFA. I'm not saying that Linfield v Cliftonville games pass off without incident but the matches are possible. Cliftonville are fairly comfortable in the IL anyway.

Donegal Celtic could get left out in the cold by the new breakway league up there but they'd find it equally as hard to get into our league for the same reasons e.g. quality of their ground etc.

el punter

28/09/2006, 7:52 PM

Linfield v Glentoran is a more troublesome fixture than Linfield v Cliftonville.

Both Cliftonville and Donegal Celtic would struggle to stay in the top flite in the Eircom League also IMO

SwiftsSupporter

28/09/2006, 8:51 PM

:rolleyes: Is all I can say to this thread.

SwiftsSupporter

28/09/2006, 8:51 PM

Oh and Cliftonville are from north Belfast.

DmanDmythDledge

28/09/2006, 10:06 PM

What was the background for Derry leaving the Irish League?

David

29/09/2006, 6:30 AM

What was the background for Derry leaving the Irish League?

The area was deemed unsafe for visiting clubs. I think it was Ballymena who had their coach burned out. Their games were moved to Coleraine. Was in the early 70's so I was very young, I am sure Derry supporters could explain it better.

Not Brazil

29/09/2006, 9:55 AM

I wouldnt like to see Eircom LEague games being held in Windsor park but any NI club wanting to join should be able to

Why's that?

Are you also against the idea of Setanta Cup matches, and possible All Ireland League matches, involving Eirecom League teams being held at Windsor Park?:eek:

The current Donegal Celtic Chairman is on the record as saying that the have absolutely no desire to play in the Eirecom , inspite of some tacit enquiries - he states they are a Belfast based club, therefore under the umbrella of the IFA.

At a time when many are exploring the potential of cross border competition, it seems somewhat odd that some seem to wish to create a unionist league and a nationalist league on this island.

"Cliftonville are fairly comfortable in the IL anyway"

Their immediate Past President, and lifelong fan, Mr Jim Boyce, is also President of the IFA. He held a dual role until recently.

BohsPartisan

29/09/2006, 10:44 AM

Linfield, Glentoran and Portadown are the only clubs up north who we should even consider letting in to the EL premier division. The other's wouldn't have a hope of competing.

Risteard

29/09/2006, 12:06 PM

At a time when many are exploring the potential of cross border competition, it seems somewhat odd that some seem to wish to create a unionist league and a nationalist league on this island.

Bingo.
Linfield for the eircom i'd say.
Start the exodus.

Lionel Ritchie

29/09/2006, 12:28 PM

Linfield, Glentoran and Portadown are the only clubs up north who we should even consider letting in to the EL premier division. The other's wouldn't have a hope of competing.

...and of course it's irrelevant to you that they wouldn't even consider joining the LOI.

Some clubs down here have made admirable progress but it's not that long ago that LOI clubs would not have compared at all favourably to IL clubs either on the pitch or off it ...standard of ground, facilities offered etc...

I think, for now, we should be all quite satisfied that the Setanta looks like a viable proposition and let it settle at that for a bit rather than running away with ourselves going on about any northern club being only delighted to join our league -when half it's member clubs are themselves basket cases.

BohsPartisan

29/09/2006, 12:53 PM

...and of course it's irrelevant to you that they wouldn't even consider joining the LOI.

Some clubs down here have made admirable progress but it's not that long ago that LOI clubs would not have compared at all favourably to IL clubs either on the pitch or off it ...standard of ground, facilities offered etc...

I think, for now, we should be all quite satisfied that the Setanta looks like a viable proposition and let it settle at that for a bit rather than running away with ourselves going on about any northern club being only delighted to join our league -when half it's member clubs are themselves basket cases.

Maybe not the LOI as it stands now but a fair few fans up there have said they'd like some sort of all Ireland premier division. They recognise that at least on the park the EL is going forward (albeit slowly) while the IL is in decline. Having said that the three teams I have outlined would be strong enough to come in and compete against the top half of our league. Personally I think this is the only way forward for football on this island. I would also be in favour of the clubs ditching the morons who run (ruin?) the game North and South of the border and setting up a completely new league. (with me in charge to avoid any chance of further incompetance. :p )

drinkfeckarse

29/09/2006, 1:08 PM

The area was deemed unsafe for visiting clubs. I think it was Ballymena who had their coach burned out. Their games were moved to Coleraine. Was in the early 70's so I was very young, I am sure Derry supporters could explain it better.

Not that I'm an expert on it but I'm sure I recall the Derry fans having a different version on why they left. Not that it matters now of course.

Lionel Ritchie

29/09/2006, 1:12 PM

While I would be ultimately in favour of an all Ireland league at some point down the road - I'd guess some degree of regionalisation would have to occur -particularly in the lower division. Taking the extreme examples -I can't see Coleraine or Ballymena V Waterford or Cobh having a great away support. (Acknowledging away support in LOI is already fairly weak). In that regard we'd possibly have to take a leaf out of the (gulp) GAA book and run the rule over how they run league and cup competitions to see if there's anything football could apply.

gspain

29/09/2006, 1:55 PM

Story on Derry withdrawing from the league is documented in Frank Curran's history of Derry City.

Trouble during 71 or 72 with Ballymena bus burned out and Linfield bus attacked. Derry were forced to play home games in Coleraine with obvious loss of revenue extra costs etc.

A vote was then taken on whether or not to allow Derry back to the Brandywell. Going on memory now but I think it was down to one vote with the Belfast clubs (except Cliftonville) mainly going against Derry and the provincial clubs backing them except for Coleraine who abstained. I'm a bit hazy here on remembering who voted which way but curran documents it and I will check if nobody posts it correctly in the meantime. I'm pretty sure about Coleraine's abstention which went down worst of all.

After losing the vote Derry City felt they had no option but to withdraw from the Irish League.

Note although the bulk of the current support is probably mainly catholic/nationalist the support in the Irish League days was mixed. Even looking at Irish League programmes approx half the adverts are for businesses in Derry and the other half for those in Londonderry. Joining the LoI and playing sunday football (virtually all games were on a sunday in the 80's) would have alienated a lot of the protestants/unionists i nthe city who would have supported the Irish League team. In fairness to the club there is no reason why anybody would be alienated from following them as they are totally apolitical and the fans do not sing any sectarian songs etc.

Schumi

29/09/2006, 2:07 PM

What was the background for Derry leaving the Irish League?Very informative (and long!) posts here (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=7818).

Not Brazil

29/09/2006, 2:13 PM

I think, for now, we should be all quite satisfied that the Setanta looks like a viable proposition and let it settle at that for a bit rather than running away with ourselves going on about any northern club being only delighted to join our league

Totally agree LR.

Perhaps the Setanta can expand to include some Welsh and Scottish teams too?

BohsPartisan

29/09/2006, 2:42 PM

Totally agree LR.

Perhaps the Setanta can expand to include some Welsh and Scottish teams too?

The Welsh would be no addition and the Scots, well who are you talking about? Celtic and Rangers wouldn't be interested and would only dominate it at any rate. If you take in some of the lesser teams, Joe Punter is going to see it as a Mickey Mouse tournament. Leave Setanta as it is. Its fine.

Mr_Parker

29/09/2006, 8:56 PM

"Cliftonville are fairly comfortable in the IL anyway"

Their immediate Past President, and lifelong fan, Mr Jim Boyce, is also President of the IFA. He held a dual role until recently.

Boyce was not President of our club. He was Chairman until 1998. He is currently an Honorary VP and our Co.Antrim Steel & Sons Cup rep.

Mr_Parker

29/09/2006, 8:59 PM

Cliftonville had been approached on several occassions to join various North - South league set ups, none of which ever materialised nor which Cliftonville ever agreed to join. An AIL in some format, is only a matter of time imo.

dcfcsteve

29/09/2006, 9:54 PM

Would it be a good thing for a west belfast side to join the Eircom league? The Derry City phenomenon could easily be re-created in west belfast. There is huge potential. Ive often wondered why Cliftonville never joined the real irish league.

Daft question to be fair Finn Park. And not just for the lazy stereotype that Cliftonville are Catholic/Nationalist so presumably must be from West Belfast.

What possible grounds would either Cliftonville or Donegal Celtic have to jump ship ? The desire to join a Catholic/Nationalist league ?? :eek: Both had reasons to consider making such a move in the 80's and 90's - Cliftonville when they were forced to play all games versus Linfield at Windsor, and DC when they found themselves unable to join the league, and also for the aftermath of their riotous Cup game at Windsor.

And why dd you narrow it to 2 Belfast teams ? If you wanted to fish for clubs to leave the IL for the EL, Newry would make the most sense logistically and geographically.

The only way clubs from either side of the border are likely to end up playing each other in the league would be under an all-island structure.

Not Brazil

30/09/2006, 8:35 AM

Boyce was not President of our club. He was Chairman until 1998. He is currently an Honorary VP and our Co.Antrim Steel & Sons Cup rep.

Apologies Mr Parker.

Not Brazil

30/09/2006, 8:37 AM

Cliftonville when they were forced to play all games versus Linfield at Windsor

By whom and why?

-lamb-

30/09/2006, 8:54 AM

Lux Interior

30/09/2006, 5:31 PM

Would it be a good thing for a west belfast side to join the Eircom league? The Derry City phenomenon could easily be re-created in west belfast. There is huge potential. Ive often wondered why Cliftonville never joined the real irish league.

Maybe your club would benefit from joining the "real irish League" (ie: the association that wasn't formed after a split). After all, you could cut down on those travel costs that seem to have your club up pmt creek without a sanitary towel.

:rolleyes:

Lux Interior

30/09/2006, 5:32 PM

BleusAvantTout

30/09/2006, 9:48 PM

Lamb, you do realise that it takes 1/2 hour longer to get to Dublin than backwaters like Omagh and Drumahoe?

:confused:

You're slipping up ....you're quoting 'all our yesterdays'. ;)

dcfcsteve

01/10/2006, 1:52 AM

By whom and why?

I assume your question is leading, as you must know the answer to this....!?!

By either the Irish League or the IFA. For 'security reasons'.

Probably in the same way that the Brandywell was deemed unsafe for security reasons in 1973, despite both the army and the RUC stating publically that it posed no security issues...

gspain

01/10/2006, 8:29 AM

I assume your question is leading, as you must know the answer to this....!?!

By either the Irish League or the IFA. For 'security reasons'.

Probably in the same way that the Brandywell was deemed unsafe for security reasons in 1973, despite both the army and the RUC stating publically that it posed no security issues...

It was a vote of the clubs that deemed the Brandywell unsafe - Linfield, Glentoran, Ards, Crusaders, Glenavon and Distillery voted against going back.

For the record Portadown proposed that they go back with Cliftonville, Bangor, Ballymena and Derry (obviously) supporting. Coleraine abstained which went down very badly.

Not Brazil

01/10/2006, 10:44 AM

I assume your question is leading, as you must know the answer to this....!?!
By either the Irish League or the IFA. For 'security reasons'.

On the instruction of the RUC, who made the decision. Hobson's choice for the Irish League Officials.

Who decided that Cliftonville's "home" games v Linfield would be played at Windsor Park?

The PSNI continue to make decisions which are hugely unpopular with Linfield fans surrounding Cliftonville V Linfield fixtures at Solitude - but at least it's at Solitude nowadays.

"despite both the army and the RUC stating publically that it posed no security issues..."

Some Ballymena supporters might disagree with them.

I also seen for myself the obvious "security issues" at The Brandywell and it's environs. So much so, that my young son will never set foot in the place again.

Not the fault of Derry City or the Club's officials, I hasten to add, but a fact that for Linfield supporters going to the Brandywell, nothing has changed in over 30 years in terms of the "security issues" they face in going there.

David

01/10/2006, 11:40 AM

one of my main objections to any ail is simply down to travelling. (i have other objections but i'll stick with travel at the minute)
one of the more interesting parts of following a team is going to away matches, but i'm not sure i could afford the time or money to travel all round ireland every other week on god knows which day to watch my team.

the clubs themselves would still mostly have part time players and they would have to make all sorts of arrangements at work/home to make time for most midweek away matches. i'm not sure its feasible or fair to ask that of them.

would the home gates increase enough to cover the (even smaller) away gate?

A lot of clubs are Dublin based which can be done comfortably in two hours from Belfast, it is only an hour past Newry. Cork, Waterford and Limerick (should the latter two make any all Ireland set up) are the only ones that will be any great distance and if you look at the travel in comparison to other leagues then it is still relatively little. You would still have your games against teams from Northern Ireland. Their may be few away supporters at some games but to be frank this is already the case with a lot of clubs and increased sponsorship and, I believe, increased home support would more than make up for this.

-lamb-

01/10/2006, 12:35 PM

A lot of clubs are Dublin based which can be done comfortably in two hours from Belfast, it is only an hour past Newry. Cork, Waterford and Limerick (should the latter two make any all Ireland set up) are the only ones that will be any great distance and if you look at the travel in comparison to other leagues then it is still relatively little. You would still have your games against teams from Northern Ireland. Their may be few away supporters at some games but to be frank this is already the case with a lot of clubs and increased sponsorship and, I believe, increased home support would more than make up for this.

aye, sure its only 2 hours after work on a weekday evening.
not forgetting possibly having to travel home from work, the remains of rush hour traffic along the way, or the 2 hour return after the game, the extra expense involved. even sunday evening games would be a no-no for most people.
basically you've got saturday afternoon or possibly sunday afternoon if you want to watch your team away for most games.
its just not feasible for most people.
whilst the extra sponsorship and possibly bigger home gates may negate the financial loss for a club, it doesn't help the ordinary fan who can only go every other week, seeing their club half as much as they can now, unless they made huge sacrifices in terms of taking hols from work, expenses, lost family time etc etc.nor will it help the atmosphere at grounds, which, lets be honest, is part of the reason people are attracted to watching football in the first place.

imagine this -
cork v larne (whatever day)
larne v coleraine
bohs v larne (fri evening)
waterford v larne (whatever day)
thats realistically 1 game in a month for larne fans to watch their team. no thanks.

all in all i stand by what i say. its not for me. (and take into account i've only missed 3 games, friendly or competitive, in the last 3 years+)

Paddy Ramone

01/10/2006, 5:38 PM

Would it be a good thing for a west belfast side to join the Eircom league? The Derry City phenomenon could easily be re-created in west belfast. There is huge potential. Ive often wondered why Cliftonville never joined the real irish league.

Cliftonville as another poster pointed out are a north Belfast club and in their early amatuer days (they are the second oldest club in Ireland) were probably 99% Protestant. They only became a mainly "Catholic" club after demographic changes in North Belfast in the early seventies.

Paddy Ramone

01/10/2006, 5:48 PM

Note although the bulk of the current support is probably mainly catholic/nationalist the support in the Irish League days was mixed. Even looking at Irish League programmes approx half the adverts are for businesses in Derry and the other half for those in Londonderry. Joining the LoI and playing sunday football (virtually all games were on a sunday in the 80's) would have alienated a lot of the protestants/unionists i nthe city who would have supported the Irish League team. In fairness to the club there is no reason why anybody would be alienated from following them as they are totally apolitical and the fans do not sing any sectarian songs etc.

Even their colours have no sectarian associatons because they adopted their red and white candy stripes in the 1930's from Sheffield United because their manager World War I veteran Billy Gillespie played for them.

David

01/10/2006, 6:15 PM

(they are the second oldest club in Ireland)

No doubt Parker will be along soon. :D

BleusAvantTout

01/10/2006, 9:10 PM

No doubt Parker will be along soon. :D

Well he does have a nosey on here from time to time!! ;) :rolleyes:

dcfcsteve

01/10/2006, 9:18 PM

On the instruction of the RUC, who made the decision. Hobson's choice for the Irish League Officials.

Would that be the same RUC who stated publically that there were no security or safety issues in using the Brandywell in 1973 ? Hobson's Choice indeed - though only when it suits the Irish League Management Committee it would seem...

"despite both the army and the RUC stating publically that it posed no security issues..."

Some Ballymena supporters might disagree with them.

Really ? Is that why their club voted for a return to the Brandywell then ??? :rolleyes:

And are you suggesting that the football fans of one club were better informed of the security situation on the other side of the province form where they lived than the RUC were ?? :eek:

[I also seen for myself the obvious "security issues" at The Brandywell and it's environs. So much so, that my young son will never set foot in the place again.

Not the fault of Derry City or the Club's officials, I hasten to add, but a fact that for Linfield supporters going to the Brandywell, nothing has changed in over 30 years in terms of the "security issues" they face in going there.

For the record - yes, a lot has actually changed with the "security issues" outside the Brandywell in 30 years.

There were never incidents of supporters or their vehicles being selected for attack in Derry's Irish League days (the Balymena bus that got hijacked was empty at the time, and was merely taken along with anything else they could find to use as barricades). The same sadly could not be said of buses and stadiums elsewhere in the province - including Windsor, and including very recent events.

I even recall a hand grenade being thrown into a certain ground 15 or so years after Derry City were forced out of the league. I wonder what penalties that club were forced to suffer for such clear 'security issues' regarding their stadium.... :rolleyes:

dcfcsteve

01/10/2006, 9:23 PM

Even their colours have no sectarian associatons because they adopted their red and white candy stripes in the 1930's from Sheffield United because their manager World War I veteran Billy Gillespie played for them.

There had been a Derry Celtic club in the early part of the 20th Centur. When Derry City was established in 1928, the club consciously chose the name 'City' over 'Celtic', as they didn't want a religious affiliation or association for the team.

And so the 'neutral' policy has continued to the present day...

dcfcsteve

01/10/2006, 9:25 PM

aye, sure its only 2 hours after work on a weekday evening.
not forgetting possibly having to travel home from work, the remains of rush hour traffic along the way, or the 2 hour return after the game, the extra expense involved. even sunday evening games would be a no-no for most people.
basically you've got saturday afternoon or possibly sunday afternoon if you want to watch your team away for most games.
its just not feasible for most people.
whilst the extra sponsorship and possibly bigger home gates may negate the financial loss for a club, it doesn't help the ordinary fan who can only go every other week, seeing their club half as much as they can now, unless they made huge sacrifices in terms of taking hols from work, expenses, lost family time etc etc.nor will it help the atmosphere at grounds, which, lets be honest, is part of the reason people are attracted to watching football in the first place.

imagine this -
cork v larne (whatever day)
larne v coleraine
bohs v larne (fri evening)
waterford v larne (whatever day)
thats realistically 1 game in a month for larne fans to watch their team. no thanks.

all in all i stand by what i say. its not for me. (and take into account i've only missed 3 games, friendly or competitive, in the last 3 years+)

I'm staggered by your 'grumpy old man' mediocrity.

Why don't you just get Larne to join a South Antrim league, and save yourself troublesome away trips to far-off climes like Ballymena and Portadown.... :rolleyes:

Not Brazil

02/10/2006, 9:21 AM

dcfcsteve,

"Would that be the same RUC who stated publically that there were no security or safety issues in using the Brandywell in 1973 ? Hobson's Choice indeed - though only when it suits the Irish League Management Committee it would seem..."

The issue was presented before the Irish League Management Committee and a democratic vote of member clubs taken.

"Really ? Is that why their club voted for a return to the Brandywell then ???"

I was talking about the supporters who had no bus to travel home on after it was hijacked and burnt out.

"For the record - yes, a lot has actually changed with the "security issues" outside the Brandywell in 30 years."

Not my experience in 2005. Do the PSNI police the environs of The Brandywell?

"There were never incidents of supporters or their vehicles being selected for attack in Derry's Irish League days (the Balymena bus that got hijacked was empty at the time, and was merely taken along with anything else they could find to use as barricades)"

There was in 2005. Supporters buses exiting the The Brandywell had to endure a lengthy rerouting after Linfield's visit for the Setanta fixture this year too.

"I even recall a hand grenade being thrown into a certain ground 15 or so years after Derry City were forced out of the league. I wonder what penalties that club were forced to suffer for such clear 'security issues' regarding their stadium..."

So do I.

Having been sat in the stand the night the blast bombs were thrown over the wall at Windsor near the Cliftonville fans, my abiding memory was the massive cheer that went up from those very same fans because they were under the impression it was the IRA attacking Linfield fans!!

Should Linfield Football Club be held similarly responsible for two republican attempts to bomb supporters exiting Windsor Park during International fixtures in the mid 80's too?:rolleyes:

You will be aware that Derry City fans entered and exited Windsor Park without any hint of trouble for the Setanta Cup fixture.

UInfortunately Linfield supporters are not afforded the same luxury in the envirions of The Brandywell.

I restate that this has nothing to do with Derry City Football Club.

dcfcsteve

02/10/2006, 10:03 AM

"Would that be the same RUC who stated publically that there were no security or safety issues in using the Brandywell in 1973 ? Hobson's Choice indeed - though only when it suits the Irish League Management Committee it would seem..."

The issue was presented before the Irish League Management Committee and a democratic vote of member clubs taken.

True, but nothing to do with the point I made. The RUC recommended against using Solitude, with the Irish League Management Committee took as advice they had to follow. But when the same RUC said there were no problems with the Brandywell.......? :rolleyes:

"Really ? Is that why their club voted for a return to the Brandywell then ???"

I was talking about the supporters who had no bus to travel home on after it was hijacked and burnt out.

With all due respect you were talking sh!t. It was the team bus that got hijacked and burnt, not the supporters bus, so you clearly don't even know what you're talking about. And no-one had to walk anywhere, as DCFc arranged alternative transport. Still - keep convincing yourself that you were there as an eye-witness reporter back in the day Not Brazil....

"For the record - yes, a lot has actually changed with the "security issues" outside the Brandywell in 30 years."

Not my experience in 2005. Do the PSNI police the environs of The Brandywell?

Please read what someone says before you jump in and respond to it. The Police did service the environs of the Brandywell back in the 70's - they don't now. That is clearly a major and obvious change. There were never any incidents of supporters being targetted outside the Brandywell back in the 70's, whereas sadly there was one last year. That is clearly also a change from previous times. So things have clearly changed. For 99.9% of circumstances, that change is a positive one. I say that not as a political statement, but as a societal one - that in this day and age police aren't required inside a football stadium 100% of the time, not outside 99.9% of the time.

"There were never incidents of supporters or their vehicles being selected for attack in Derry's Irish League days (the Balymena bus that got hijacked was empty at the time, and was merely taken along with anything else they could find to use as barricades)"

There was in 2005. Supporters buses exiting the The Brandywell had to endure a lengthy rerouting after Linfield's visit for the Setanta fixture this year too.

Again - PLEASE read what someone says before you bury your foot in your mouth. What part of "Irish League" in my above statement did you struggle to comprehend......?

"I even recall a hand grenade being thrown into a certain ground 15 or so years after Derry City were forced out of the league. I wonder what penalties that club were forced to suffer for such clear 'security issues' regarding their stadium..."

So do I.

And what sanctions occured for that undeniably serious security issue inside an Irish League ground....? And how did that compare to the treatment of the Brandywell ? I could mention numerous other serious outbreaks of public disorder in IL grounds - as recently as last year - that have gone without penalty against those Sstadiums as well. Strange, huh....?

Having been sat in the stand the night the blast bombs were thrown over the wall at Windsor near the Cliftonville fans, my abiding memory was the massive cheer that went up from those very same fans because they were under the impression it was the IRA attacking Linfield fans!!

And that has exactly what to do with the Brandywell ?

Should Linfield Football Club be held similarly responsible for two republican attempts to bomb supporters exiting Windsor Park during International fixtures in the mid 80's too?:rolleyes:

Should Derry City have been held responsible for the hijacking of an empty visiting team's bus in the middle of a game by people unconnected to the match, and forced out of senior football because of it - even against the advice of the official security experts.....? :rolleyes: Touche.....

Not Brazil

02/10/2006, 10:48 AM

dcfcsteve,

"True, but nothing to do with the point I made. The RUC recommended against using Solitude, with the Irish League Management Committee took as advice they had to follow. But when the same RUC said there were no problems with the Brandywell.......?"

The fact is that member clubs of the Irish League made the decision democratically, based on ALL evidence placed before them.

"With all due respect you were talking sh!t. It was the team bus that got hijacked and burnt, not the supporters bus"

Oh right - that's ok then!:eek:

"There were never any incidents of supporter vehicles being targetted outside the Brandywell back in the 70's"

Are you 100% sure of that?

"And what sanctions occured for that undeniably serious security issue inside an Irish League ground....? And how did that compare to the treatment of the Brandywell ? I could mention numerous other serious outbreaks of public disorder in IL grounds - as recently as last year - that have gone without penalty against those Stadiums as well. Strange, huh....?"

Did anyone put the matter before the Irish League Management Committee for a vote on sanctions?

What incidents went "without penalty" last year?

"And that has exactly what to do with the Brandywell ?"

Erm - it was you who introduced the whataboutery about other grounds.:rolleyes:

"Should Derry City have been held responsible for the hijacking of an empty visiting team's bus in the middle of a game by people unconnected to the match, and forced out of senior football because of it - even against the advice of the official security experts.....?"

Obviously the majority of member clubs in the Irish League took a democratic decision that it was unsafe to visit the Brandywell.

Derry City were not victims if the Irish League so much as victims of rioting local thugs who made other clubs feel unable to play fixtures at The Brandywell in safety.

Would you have any official details of the RUC "advice" on the matter?

By the way, Derry City LEFT the Irish league.

Following the Ballymena bus incident, it was decreed that it was unsafe to play at The Brandywell. As you well know, Derry City played "home" games at Coleraine FC after that.

I fully understand that the financial implications of this meant that Derry City ultimately had to RESIGN their position in the League.

So, in summary:

Following a serious incident at The Brandywell involving an IL's team bus, Irish League Clubs democratically voted that it was unsafe to play fixtures at The Brandywell.

Arrangements were made for Derry City to play matches at Coleraine.

Given the resultant loss of revenue, Derry City resigned from the IL.

I have a large degree of sympathy with Derry City over the matter, but I resent the notion that a conspiracy of oppression existed against the Club.

Decisions were taken democratically.

We have witnessed that major security issues for certain visiting clubs still exist around The Brandywell to this day.

For the third time now, this is not the fault of Derry City Football Club.

I wish the Club continued success in the Eirecom, and look forward to the day when I can revisit The Brandywell with my son to support our club, without feeling intimidated by locals attacking our buses, or having to endure late night, lengthy, cross country (quite literally) jaunts in order to avoid same.

Lionel Ritchie

02/10/2006, 12:45 PM

David

02/10/2006, 2:03 PM

Not Brazil -I'm not doubting the inconvenience you were put to in your attempts to get back east from Derry. But was the issue that led the cops to take ye on a country spin not that there were gougers on the outskirts of Derry on the flyovers of whatever ye call the Derry Belfast road waiting for Linfield supporters to come by?

It's disgraceful it happened but it's no more the fault of Derry City FC (or Derry City BC for that matter) than it is Newry, Dundalk or Drogheda borough councils fault when some fool decides to put a satchel by the train tracks and phone in a bomb scare.

As far as I know (we were not told much on the night) it was thugs in the vicinity of the Brandywell that were the problem that night. Numerous times now Not Brazil has said that this was not the fault of Derry City FC but the fact remains that it is unsafe for Linfield FC to play at that ground. That being the case today given the current political climate, I dread to think what it would have been like in the early 70's when the troubles were at their height.

BohsPartisan

02/10/2006, 3:09 PM

Portsmouth V Newcastle?
Celta Vigo V Majorca?
AC Milan V Palermo?
FC Nantes V Marseille?
Considerable distances involved in all of these, far greater than Larne V Cork

-lamb-

02/10/2006, 4:41 PM

-lamb-

02/10/2006, 4:45 PM

Portsmouth V Newcastle?
Celta Vigo V Majorca?
AC Milan V Palermo?
FC Nantes V Marseille?
Considerable distances involved in all of these, far greater than Larne V Cork

of course they are and they most likely also pay a small fortune to go to those (higher standard) games, which i, as it stands, don't.
you seriously cannot argue that an ail will either:
1) cost more in terms of money and time for the average fan.
or
2) mean more missed games for the average fan.

dcfcsteve

02/10/2006, 10:15 PM

so sorry for having a different point of view steve.......:rolleyes:

i thought people were still allowed their own opinions. obviously i made a mistake.
btw. "mediocrity"? that doesn't even make any sense unless you've missed out some sort of context to it.
btw. pt2. larne isn't in south antrim.

Mediocre is saying you don't want to be part of an all-island league - arguably the best chance both leagues on this island have to relaunch themslves and attract decent TV coverage and sponsorship - because the distances involved require more than 90mins in a car. Let's all just wallow in our cosy little comfort zones and feck the good of the game.....

So you wouldn't even travel to South Antrim...? :eek: Alright - make it a Larne and district league and cut that pesky travelling right down...:D

Would you grumble about Larne making it to the group stages of a European competition ? After all, that would require international/overseas travel for your fans on average once a month - about the same number of times you'd have to leave God's Ulster in any all-island league.

David

02/10/2006, 11:20 PM

Mediocre is saying you don't want to be part of an all-island league - arguably the best chance both leagues on this island have to relaunch themslves and attract decent TV coverage and sponsorship - because the distances involved require more than 90mins in a car. Let's all just wallow in our cosy little comfort zones and feck the good of the game.....

So you wouldn't even travel to South Antrim...? :eek: Alright - make it a Larne and district league and cut that pesky travelling right down...:D

Would you grumble about Larne making it to the group stages of a European competition ? After all, that would require international/overseas travel for your fans on average once a month - about the same number of times you'd have to leave God's Ulster in any all-island league.

As much as it pains me to say so, I am with you on this one. :)