View Full Version : Selling Sunderland to the Paddies
Has so much drivel ever been written about a lower league english team. Reading today about junkets for irish journalists in order "sell Sunderland to the Paddies..." & RTE Radio 1 giving airtime to Sunderland Chairman during the weel to sell the vitues of football trip to Sunderland.
Radio Telefís Éireann is Ireland's Public Service Broadcaster. RTÉ, through all of its services, forms a major part of the infrastructure of Irish society.
:eek: :rolleyes:
el punter
17/09/2006, 4:12 PM
The Mighty Quinn was quoted as planning to take people from Cork, Tralee and Galway to Sunderland every week. This man who was on a panel to progress football in Ireland? Jesus wept.
I am realistic about the appeal of the eL but do we really need out National broadcaster selling foreign lower league football? We have hard enough time against the Premiership.
:(
osarusan
17/09/2006, 4:36 PM
To be fair to RTE, they have a duty to show what they feel the public wants to see, and there is a lot of interest in Keane and Sunderland.
Whether the media themselves created interest where none previously existed is another matter.
Whether the media themselves created interest where none previously existed is another matter.
The media are being paid to fly to Sunderland. I wonder have RTE accepted any free junkets?
BohDiddley
17/09/2006, 6:06 PM
I've put some of the links and quotes together here (http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/19468). This really takes the biscuit. I think some, like the lads on Danger Here, are doing it as a madcap post-modernist stunt, but no doubt there'll be lots of suckers out there for Quinn. Also saw a post on the Sunderland message board that they are suddenly big in Thailand. I suppose the locals don't care who joins 'em.
The amount of people over here that are talking about Sunderland though now is incredible. People who you always considered to know nothing about football are suddenly coming out with classics like "I wouldn't mind going over and taking a game in". RTE's coverage reflects this.
el punter
17/09/2006, 6:55 PM
We can bitch and moan about our media here all day (and I'm generally happy to join in), but...
what we are getting here is an absolute LESSON in how to play the media.
Quinn is Mr PR, and doing a great job of playing on the new links between Ireland and Sunderland. If you were in his position you'd only hope you could do the same. He's getting loads of column inches, and getting heaps of Irish hacks on his side. And he will inevitably lure thousands of Irish people interested in football to Sunderland week on week (note I did not call them Irish Football Fans...that's you and me) to pay his bills and create a Blarney atmosphere.
There are smart men around Quinn's consortium, smart men who presumably thought they'd have more fun and make more money in trying to get Sunderland to the top end of the Premiership rather than trying to make something happen at an eircom league club.
The FAI in general could take note of how this media grooming works, but extra special attention should be paid by Bohs. When they get their money, they will need some bloody good marketing minds and PR people around. They have a chance to bring football in Dublin and in Ireland to a whole new level.
I would argue that the marketing and PR people at Bohs over the next decade will have a FAR bigger role to play in the club than any manager or player.
This is the 'football business' and it looks at least as if Quinn has the business part down.
************
The flip side to this can be looked upon with a somewhat tenuous, but ne'er the less appropriate analogy.
We have football in Ireland. There is also football in England.
We have dairy farms in Ireland. There are also dairy farms in England.
If the Irish media started to promote English dairy produce over Irish dairy produce there would be such a fuss made by our militant farming communities that the country would be brought to a standstill. There would be government legislation brought in to ensure that promotion of Irish dairy produce at least had parity with that of non-Irish produce. The farmers would win.
A case can be made fairly easily to state that 'the existence of my Irish club and all the staff employed by my club are under threat because of an imbalance in the promotion of our product'.
It would seem some style of lobbying by the FAI to have a proper promotional campaign funded by the state is in order to protect our national football industry?
BohDiddley
17/09/2006, 7:06 PM
All very well (though you really need to decide which side you are on) but all the PR and business logic in the world doesn't alter the absurdity at a fundamental level of a mass following for Sunderland among Irish football fans.
Whatever about following Liverpool or Glasgow Celtic, there is no basis on which Irish fans might reasonably support this club. Take a look at the club history and see if you can find the slightest hint of green.
I remember when we used to collect Esso (I think) cards of the old First Div. No one, but no one, ever wanted a Sunderland one.
PS: there has to be a t-shirt in this one!
Poor Student
17/09/2006, 7:21 PM
It would seem some style of lobbying by the FAI to have a proper promotional campaign funded by the state is in order to protect our national football industry?
To the best of my knowledge our dairy produce (particularly butter) used to be sold to Britain at substandard prices due to a poorly organised industry but we got together and marketed our own produce under the launch Kerrygold label and managed to reverse the poor trend for Irish dairy produce.
el punter
17/09/2006, 7:29 PM
All very well (though you really need to decide which side you are on) but all the PR and business logic in the world doesn't alter the absurdity at a fundamental level of a mass following for Sunderland among Irish football fans.
Whatever about following Liverpool or Glasgow Celtic, there is no basis on which Irish fans might reasonably support this club. Take a look at the club history and see if you can find the slightest hint of green.
PS: there has to be a t-shirt in this one!
The basis on which Irish fans are being lured to the club - like you say - is not historical, but based on a nucleus of Irish players at the club, an Irish manager and a predominantly Irish board. There's sound grounds there for pitching at Ireland and creating a present and future of green where there was none previously.
An Irish fan 'supporting' any English club is absurd really, but we've already had that dance.
As for choosing my side...well it's not that simple. I do think out loud a fair bit.
I admire the Drumahill consortium's commercial prowess in seducing the Irish media who will subtley brainwash the Irish public to invest emotionally in Sunderland FC (and inevitably financially in merchandise, match tickets etc).
I am saddened as much as sport can sadden me, that the consortium looked beyond these shores to invest in football.
I am hopeful that people involved in Irish football can learn from how Drumahill have gone about handling the media and creating a hype to benefit the game within Ireland.
And indeed, what better way to make a statement than with a T-Shirt? Suggestions for a 'Save the local game' type slogan are welcome, we should then ask the farmers what they would do about it :)
el punter
17/09/2006, 7:32 PM
To the best of my knowledge our dairy produce (particularly butter) used to be sold to Britain at substandard prices due to a poorly organised industry but we got together and marketed our own produce under the launch Kerrygold label and managed to reverse the poor trend for Irish dairy produce.
Kind of makes Kevin Doyle the skimmed milk of the 21st century
A face
17/09/2006, 8:16 PM
Kind of makes Kevin Doyle the skimmed milk of the 21st century
What a brilliant description?
Can I also point out that Pat Dolan is a hypocrite of biblical proportions, after preaching for years about keeping youth and talent here, he then goes off and pimps one of the leagues best in one of the biggest U-turns that game has seen.
garyderry
18/09/2006, 12:22 AM
To be fair to RTE, they have a duty to show what they feel the public wants to see, and there is a lot of interest in Keane and Sunderland.
Whether the media themselves created interest where none previously existed is another matter.
no actually the whole point of a national broadcaster and the paymnet of a tv licience is that the dont "show what they feel the public wants to see", that would be the aim of a solely commercial station.
carrickharp
18/09/2006, 7:46 AM
Quinn was in good form in Cassidys on Camden Street on Saturday night!
I'm never drinking there again now!
gael353
18/09/2006, 9:41 AM
..and aer lingus are starting direct flights from Dublin to the north east (newcastle i think) from next month such is the demand from irish footie fans
Poor Student
18/09/2006, 9:43 AM
..and aer lingus are starting direct flights from Dublin to the north east (newcastle i think) from next month such is the demand from irish footie fans
Is that a joke or for real?
I don't understand, where are all these fans coming from? Were they previously unattached or have they swapped one English club for another?:confused:
Its probably the people who are so hell bent on showing thier support
for him in Siapan that they think they'll sicken Mick McCarthy by flying
over and supporting Sunderland.
I bet there'll be huge demand in Ireland for tickets to Sunderland v Wolves
Dodge
18/09/2006, 10:31 AM
I'd say a fair amount of Celtic fans with no previoous English affiliations will look for the Sunderland results now
Stuttgart88
18/09/2006, 11:14 AM
For what it's worth, I'm looking forward to seeing Sunderland play when they're next down in London. Watching current & potential Irish internationals is my primary interest in watching club football these days so it makes sense.
I see in the It today that mary hannigan has a match report from Sunderland. I can never remember her previously reporting on a game without the aid of tv so i assume she got a free junket to Sunderland.
:rolleyes:
To cap things off the IT does not list fridays live eL football on TG4 in their sport on tv section.
:(
BohsPartisan
18/09/2006, 3:27 PM
I bet there'll be hugh demand in Ireland for tickets to Sunderland v Wolves
I don't know any Hughs so I couldn't confirm or deny this. :D
I don't know any Hughs so I couldn't confirm or deny this. :D
Damn, Im rubbish at spellings and the damn spell check always misses that one!
Edited it in the origional post though :)
Stuttgart88
18/09/2006, 3:47 PM
Away from Sunderland, a 30 year-old Irish property developer, Darragh Macanthony, has bought Peterborough having seen it on Big Ron Manager on TV.
Poor Student
18/09/2006, 3:52 PM
I'd say a fair amount of Celtic fans with no previoous English affiliations will look for the Sunderland results now
Why so? I'm a Celtic fan and his few appearances for Celtic haven't made me forgive him or respect him any more. I'd say anything Celtic fan who could be arsed to go to Sunderland regularly would be more like to be going to Scotland every weekend.
Although I'll probably get attacked about being a barstool monkey whos a cancer on the Irish game yet again I have to say I don't see what people's problems with RTE on this one is. Sure we'd all like them to show more of the Eircom League, and to dedicate more coverage to both divisions but the reality is is that they are there to serve the Irish peoples demands, and at the moment the Irish public wants to see more Sunderland, and more of Roy Keane. I'd go as fas as saying that Roy alone has more support in this country than practically the whole of the Eircom League put together. I'm not a fan of his, but thats the truth as I see it. And us lot bitching about RTE isn't going to change a damn thing, as some other poster pointed out earlier, Nial Quinn is playing the Irish media game superbly, and we should look at his example as a way to try to get our agenda and interests across more
Merc67
18/09/2006, 4:02 PM
I'd say a fair amount of Celtic fans with no previoous English affiliations will look for the Sunderland results now
really? what bizarre logic have you for this?/
in my experience most celtic fans (fans who travel etc) support their club having eschewed all English clubs.
why, now would they 'follow' a lower league english side?
have you an answer or is it more likely you're waffling about Celtic out of some complex....:rolleyes:
Sure we'd all like them to show more of the Eircom League, and to dedicate more coverage to both divisions but the reality is is that they are there to serve the Irish peoples demands, and at the moment the Irish public wants to see more Sunderland, and more of Roy Keane.
As has been pointed out already, that is what commercial stations do, not public service broadcasters.I'm not sure what RTE's remit is, but I'm sure that it doesn't say that they must pander to the Irish publics wants, be it Sunderland v Burnley or Ken Bigley's beheading.
John83
18/09/2006, 6:24 PM
Is that a joke or for real?
It's for real. Ryan Air had a flight there already. Aer Lingus and Aer Aran(!) are bringing ones on stream too.
I don't understand, where are all these fans coming from? Were they previously unattached or have they swapped one English club for another?:confused:
I wouldn't be shocked to find many of them to be 'fans' of other English teams. Doubt we're looking at regular match attenders though.
Man, I never thought I'd be this cynical about bar stoolers. :eek:
Is that a joke or for real?
I don't understand, where are all these fans coming from? Were they previously unattached or have they swapped one English club for another?:confused:I support all Irish players in England coz thats where they'll get their best footie & hopefully progress on to international level. Seeing as there are a load of Irish at Sunderland now, I'd certainly be up for them more than anyone else. I also like to see Shay Given win, Damien Duff Win, John O'Shea win etc. So I can see why people are all of a sudden supporting Sunderland coz they want Irish players to do as good as possible. They're basically supporting Ireland. That said, you know I'd prefer to see them down at Belfield Park every second week but we all know thats a no hoper at this stage.:( I hope to fuch the Bohs bring in some "big name" players & maybe, just maybe, we'll get some of these fans out to watch the eL.
Hopefully with a combination of Sunderland going bankrupt in a few years because of not being able to get out of the championship, and English clubs deciding to bring in physically stronger players from African and South American countries, then Irish players will stay in Ireland where they should be, and people might go and watch their teams, instead of them pretending to be English football club fans.
Poor Student
18/09/2006, 7:04 PM
That said, you know I'd prefer to see them down at Belfield Park every second week but we all know thats a no hoper at this stage.:(
There is Gary Dicker.;)
As has been pointed out already, that is what commercial stations do, not public service broadcasters.I'm not sure what RTE's remit is, but I'm sure that it doesn't say that they must pander to the Irish publics wants, be it Sunderland v Burnley or Ken Bigley's beheading.
Yet another daydream post. RTE pander to their advertisers, the advertisers worship the altar that is ratings, Sunderland will bring higher ratings than the Eircom League, so the advertisers will tell RTE to show more Sunderland and English football than Eircom League. You may have this ideal about what RTE as a Public Service Broadcaster should and shouldn't do, but as a media outlet they are doing the sensible thing by following their advertisers wants
Have you got the viewing figures for EL and Premiership matches on broadcast on RTE?The EL ones I believe to be quite high, in spite of RTE not botherign to put enough effort in.
Yeah hold on I have em in my pocket here....anyone can see that the Premiership is a more marketable, profitable and watchable league for a TV station to broadcast, so suggesting that the Eircom League does better on RTE is just silly really
fitzknows
18/09/2006, 8:12 PM
Yet another daydream post. RTE pander to their advertisers, the advertisers worship the altar that is ratings, Sunderland will bring higher ratings than the Eircom League, so the advertisers will tell RTE to show more Sunderland and English football than Eircom League. You may have this ideal about what RTE as a Public Service Broadcaster should and shouldn't do, but as a media outlet they are doing the sensible thing by following their advertisers wants
As a TV licence holder I do have a ideal about them being Public Service Broadcasters. I have emailed them about their lack of coverage of our domestic game however did not get a response. If they want to just show what their advertisers want then I don't see why I should have to pay 155 Euro each year to see the kind of broadcasting that I can get on any private channel.
As a TV licence holder I do have a ideal about them being Public Service Broadcasters. I have emailed them about their lack of coverage of our domestic game however did not get a response. If they want to just show what their advertisers want then I don't see why I should have to pay 155 Euro each year to see the kind of broadcasting that I can get on any private channel.
I agree, but sadly we live in Ireland where the average joe gets stamped on on a regular basis and Irish people take it, simply because its not an English boot doing the stamping. But thats besides the point, if we were going to argue what RTE as a PBS should be doing then they also should not be having adverts in the first place, the point of this thread was seemingly to stick the boot into Irish people supporting British clubs yet again and to bitch about RTE yet again when really we should be asking ourselves how we can promote the Eircom League to RTE and a wider audience on a whole
BohDiddley
18/09/2006, 8:20 PM
Yeah hold on I have em in my pocket here....anyone can see that the Premiership is a more marketable, profitable and watchable league for a TV station to broadcast, so suggesting that the Eircom League does better on RTE is just silly really
In addition to its licence money, RTE enjoys a virtual monopoly in Irish television, and that is justified on the 'ideal' -- strangely attainable and realistic in other jurisdictions -- of public service broadcasting that doesn't cow-tow to people selling Coco Pops and beer. Stick that in yer red braces Gecko.
Dodge
18/09/2006, 10:21 PM
really? what bizarre logic have you for this?/
in my experience most celtic fans (fans who travel etc) support their club having eschewed all English clubs.
why, now would they 'follow' a lower league english side?
have you an answer or is it more likely you're waffling about Celtic out of some complex....:rolleyes:
I have no complex about Celtic, I'm actually fairly fond of them. I know at least 3 Cletic fans from ireland who didn't follow a club in Ireland who are looking to go to a Sunderland game.
NeilMcD
19/09/2006, 9:23 AM
Hoping to reach promised land using rub of the green
Sunderland revolution: Mary Hannigan talks to owners Charlie Chawke and Niall Quinn about their plans for the Championship club.
Three weeks into the season, after Sunderland had lost five consecutive games, Charlie Chawke was beginning to wonder quite why he had accepted Niall Quinn's invitation to join the Drumaville consortium that took control of the club back in July.
"I started to wake up at four o'clock in the morning, it reminded me of a few of the pubs I bought down the line, waking up in the middle of the night, wondering how the hell am I going to get out of this mess," said the owner of the Charlie Chawke Group of pubs.
Now? "Now it's great, we're all relaxed, and everything is going fine. We have 10 points, we had none two weeks ago, so we're on the crest of a wave."
Along with fellow publican Louis Fitzgerald; developers Jack Tierney, Patrick Beirne, Patsy Byrne and Paddy Kelly; and John Hays, owner of a Sunderland-based travel company and the only Englishman in the consortium; Chawke was persuaded by Quinn to buy out Sunderland chairman Bob Murray and set about rebuilding the debt-ridden north-east of England club.
"Niall was the common denominator for us all. We all know him and we all respect him, maybe love is too strong a word, but he's a great guy, a gentleman. He picked the syndicate and I was only too delighted when he asked me - he didn't have to ask me twice.
"He just wanted to get guys who have a love for sport, and I think we all have, so we were just delighted to come on board. And now that we have Roy (Keane) with us we have the two foremost sporting people in Ireland at this club, as well as the Irish investors - so I think we have the biggest thing in Irish sport for a long time.
"We hope to take over from Man United now, we're going to set up supporters clubs around Ireland, Niall will be over working with PR people to get that up and running."
The charm offensive began at the weekend when the consortium chartered a plane and flew over a large group from Dublin, including a section of the media.
Upon spotting the Irish football reporters wandering through the dressingrooms on a guided tour, two hours before kick-off, Kenny Cunningham could only declare: "**** me, it's like a bad dream!"
Quinn is hopeful Cunningham and co will be see plenty more Irish faces at the Stadium of the Light in the coming months, convinced that the "greening" of Sunderland will result in a substantial fan base in Ireland.
"We'll be over talking to airlines," said Quinn, "we don't just want to see people coming from Dublin and Cork, we want to see them coming from Galway, Tralee, Derry and so on.
"We want to put something on special here for Irish people because we think they'll enjoy their football here with Roy Keane and in a city like this, as opposed to being one of the multitude in a bigger pond like Liverpool or Manchester."
Has Quinn felt less pressure since handing the managerial reins to Keane? "Absolutely! It goes without saying, chairmen know nothing about football, as my record in management shows you. But there's a great passion around the place again, which was missing, the fear is gone and we have a chance to build on that.
"Roy isn't a miracle worker, but there will be no time limit on him whatsoever, what he's done here already is worth every day of the three-year contract we've given him."
Was Chawke surprised, considering the history between the chairman and manager, that they agreed to work together?
"No, I wasn't surprised at all, ye're the people who kept that going, they're the best of friends really. They hugged and made up and they're both going for the one ambition now. Together they will be great.
"You can see in Roy that he's determined, that he's a professional at the game. He's learning at the moment but there's no doubt that he will be a leader and he will take us to the promised land.
"I'd be happy to finish in the middle of the table this season, and go up next year, but for now we just want a good decent team that will satisfy the ambition and the demands of the people of Sunderland. I look on them like Munster rugby fans, they love the game, they love their sport, and all they want is a team that they're proud of. I hope that we will be able to provide that for them."
Promotion this season, Niall? "I would have thought if I mentioned that word Roy Keane would have me up against that wall, so we'll stay nice and quiet about it," he laughed
BohDiddley
19/09/2006, 9:34 AM
Clearly, there's a PR firm at work here. Wonder who they are and how much they are being paid for the campaign?
Clearly, there's a PR firm at work here. Wonder who they are and how much they are being paid for the campaign?
Well i was correct about my Mary Hannigan comments and the Sunderland junket.
Obviously irish papers can do what they want but I will be watching closely to see if out National Public Service broadcaster is taking junkets to the north east of england in exchange for soft focus pieces.
Anyone want to start an ABS?
el punter
19/09/2006, 10:37 AM
People trying to promote something using a PR firm....what a novel idea.
I wonder what the FAI have in mind for their rebranding/relaunching/repositioning or any other gammy marketing term you care to choose?
The PR drivel makes me wretch too, but amazingly Sean Public seems to swallow this crap - wholesale.
We don't have a monopoly on football in the eircom league - nor are we entitled to one. However, rather than us all become ABS, we (and the powers that be) should be concentrating on making the 'eircom' product more enticing.
NY Hoop
19/09/2006, 10:40 AM
People trying to promote something using a PR firm....what a novel idea.
I wonder what the FAI have in mind for their rebranding/relaunching/repositioning or any other gammy marketing term you care to choose?
The PR drivel makes me wretch too, but amazingly Sean Public seems to swallow this crap - wholesale.
Not amazing at all. The Irish football public is the dumbest in the world. If Andy Gray killed their whole family they would still adore him. Saw a whole family the other day kitted out head to toe in chelsea gear going to the pub to watch "the match". Says it all really. And they think they're Irish?:rolleyes:
KOH
The only wonder is someone hasn't tried to sell some two bit Confernence club to us Paddies.
:rolleyes:
NY Hoop
19/09/2006, 10:50 AM
The only wonder is someone hasn't tried to sell some two bit Confernence club to us Paddies.
:rolleyes:
Well one fruitcake is there already:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20060108/ai_n15993252
Saw a programme on this sap and even one exeter fan said "Its normal to follow your local club but....."
KOH
BohDiddley
19/09/2006, 10:54 AM
People trying to promote something using a PR firm....what a novel idea.
I wonder what the FAI have in mind for their rebranding/relaunching/repositioning or any other gammy marketing term you care to choose?
The PR drivel makes me wretch too, but amazingly Sean Public seems to swallow this crap - wholesale.
We don't have a monopoly on football in the eircom league - nor are we entitled to one. However, rather than us all become ABS, we (and the powers that be) should be concentrating on making the 'eircom' product more enticing.
I didn't say that PR made me retch. I hope the FAI PR campaign for the relaunch of the league is fully resourced and effective.
I just think it would be interesting to know what's being invested in this project aimed at taking yet more potential support out of native football.
BohDiddley
19/09/2006, 10:57 AM
Saw a whole family the other day kitted out head to toe in chelsea gear going to the pub to watch "the match".
I held the door open for a bloke the other day, like you do. I expected him to say 'Thank you'. Like you do. He didn't. The ignoramus breezed past, resplendent in top-to-toe Chelsea gear, current season. That definitely proves something. ;)
carrickharp
19/09/2006, 12:54 PM
Dublin born business man takes over from Barry Fry at Peterborough United Report here (http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1775799).
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