View Full Version : Teams who plan to take the league to court if they get screwed
DmanDmythDledge
12/09/2006, 12:02 PM
Just thinking about this and I remembered that if a team takes their league to court(or something like that) that the country in question is banned from international qualifiers and all of that country's European representatives are barred from competing in Europe. I think Limerick are the only club to have said publicly that they would go to court, but that is irrelevant now. Surely this would stop teams taking legal action?
The clubs already voted in favour of the FAI proposals!!!
:rolleyes:
Poor Student
12/09/2006, 6:26 PM
Surely this would stop teams taking legal action?
Or put pressure on the association to sort the problem out. The clubs taking the situation to the courts would not have much to lose individually unless they had qualified for Europe through the cup. In any case, most clubs, including UCD, voted for the motion. Limerick would look awful stupid having voted for it.
You might be adding Dundalk to that list
holidaysong
12/09/2006, 6:43 PM
There will be a lot of angry people in Dundalk if we win the league and don't get invited to the party.
Patrick Dunne
12/09/2006, 6:46 PM
Then why did you vote for the proposals and promise to be bound
by the decision of the FAI ?
Limerick are lucky that the IAG is meeting club reps in Dublin, rather
than travelling out to the "stadia".
pineapple stu
12/09/2006, 6:49 PM
Several clubs voted for the proposal because of fear of FAI bullying. That's not scaremongering - that's fact. (Note the lack of capitals). The vote result doesn't indicate the clubs' views on the proposal as a whole.
Sheridan
12/09/2006, 6:53 PM
Then why did you vote for the proposals and promise to be bound
by the decision of the FAI ?
Limerick are lucky that the IAG is meeting club reps in Dublin, rather
than travelling out to the "stadia".
The Egg People got to you too! :mad:
holidaysong
12/09/2006, 7:00 PM
"Are you watching FAI?" is now one of the favourite chants in Oriel Park. We got attendances of 1,700 and 1,500 for our last two home games and our travelling support is great. I really hope they are watching.
I agree with Stu about the FAI bullying. If a club hadn't voted for the proposal and all the others had and it was passed anyway then that club really doesn't do itself any favours in the eyes of the FAI does it?
The vote result doesn't indicate the clubs' views on the proposal as a whole.
Huh? So ye voted for the FAI proposal but it doesn't reflect your views?
:eek: :rolleyes: :confused:
Student Mullet
12/09/2006, 7:11 PM
Huh? So ye voted for the FAI proposal but it doesn't reflect your views?
:eek: :rolleyes: :confused:You may have noted that the decision to award a grant to upgrade the Belfield Bowl was delayed untill after the vote on the league proposals.
Patrick Dunne
12/09/2006, 7:12 PM
My decision to vote for Fianna Fail doesn't reflect my views on their policies as a whole.
I support Fine Gael :rolleyes:
pineapple stu
12/09/2006, 7:16 PM
Would Fianna Fáil be able to bully you if you didn't vote for them?
Would they even know?
The FAI hold a very strong hand over all the clubs - as Student Mullet has hinted at - and the vote was open. So it's an entirely different scenario.
There's a few clubs who voted for who were opposed to the proposal. I'm not going to name names for obvious reasons. However, 20 out of 21 clubs are not in favour of the proposals. I could certainly name four or five cases where I was talking to people involved in a club who were opposed but were basically afraid to vote against.
GalwayFrancis
12/09/2006, 7:18 PM
We got attendances of 1,700 and 1,500 for our last two home games and our travelling support is great. I really hope they are watching.
harps were getting them figures the year before they went to the premier division, and now look at them. high attendances can be very short term, and its not all about crowds anyways, not sure - but isnt there loads of headings that the fai are looking at before picking the teams, like: grounds, finance, on frield performance, crowds and so on
However, 20 out of 21 clubs are not in favour of the proposals.
well i know City are in favour so does that mean every one else isnt?
pineapple stu
12/09/2006, 7:20 PM
Apologies. I meant that it is not the case that 20 of the 21 clubs are in favour. I phrased it slightly ambiguously alright.
holidaysong
12/09/2006, 7:26 PM
harps were getting them figures the year before they went to the premier division, and now look at them. high attendances can be very short term, and its not all about crowds anyways, not sure - but isnt there loads of headings that the fai are looking at before picking the teams, like: grounds, finance, on frield performance, crowds and so on
We have a superb new all weather pitch. Refurbishment of the ground continues. We have been taken over by Gerry Matthews - a private businessman who isn't going to stand around and watch Dundalk FC pish away money as happened before. We are top of the league (the last four seasons were a wilderness but it is interesting to note that the FAI originally said the last five seasons would count which included our Cup win in 2002 and then changed it to the last four seasons where that win counts for nothing). Our crowds are the best we have had in years. We have shown before that in the Premier Division we have and can sustain a loyal and voal fanbase. And that is all before we get to our history in the league... :p
It would have taken a very brave/very stupid club to vote against the proposals. The FAI control/influence much of the grant aid without which ground upgrades are virtually impossible for all but Bohs. The attitude from the FAI was vote for this of f**k off, and they pretty much refused to fill in the details before the vote.
I'm still generally in favour though, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't done right.
And ye wonder why the eL is a joke. "We voted for but we were not really in favour..."
:rolleyes:
Student Mullet
12/09/2006, 7:55 PM
And ye wonder why the eL is a joke. "We voted for but we were not really in favour..."
:rolleyes:You're going to have to take one step further back than that. Why did clubs vote for something they weren't in favour of?
holidaysong
12/09/2006, 7:55 PM
Pete - an easy position for a CCFC fan to be in. Would you feel the same if you were a fan of a team that will be directly affected such as Dundalk or Galway?
Our crowds are the best we have had in years. We have shown before that in the Premier Division we have and can sustain a loyal and voal fanbase. :p
A lot of clubs outside Dublin get bigger crowds when they are doin well in the first rather than struggling in the Prem. People want to see a winning team whatever div it is in. I have always thought that any team that wins it's league deserves promotion and that doesn't change. However every club knew the score before a ball was kicked this season so there's no point in any manager/chairman moaning just after they go top. I'm delighted our manager has a bit more class. See you next week :D
holidaysong
12/09/2006, 8:02 PM
Well how a homeless club can expect to pass on the ground/facilities criteria is beyond me. Next week will be fun. ;)
superfrank
12/09/2006, 8:24 PM
With the way we are going we might give the League a very good excuse to relegate us.
Imo, UCD are the only club in the Premier that the FAI have their eyes on. This is not fair at all, it's just my instinct.
No offence meant to the UCD fans, I think when you take the "criteria" into account they seem to be the weakest link.
pineapple stu
12/09/2006, 8:29 PM
No offence meant to the UCD fans, I think when you take the "criteria" into account they seem to be the weakest link.
Don't see how that can offend at all. We're saying it, sure!
Sheridan
12/09/2006, 8:53 PM
No point in any club which supported the proposals complaining now. They knew perfectly well what they entailed, they knew of the assurances given to the likes of Galway and Shamrocks (or could have surmised it from their public utterances) and were given adequate warning here and elsewhere.
Delaney's bluff was there to be called, and instead they granted him carte blanche.
Poor Student
12/09/2006, 10:51 PM
No point in any club which supported the proposals complaining now. They knew perfectly well what they entailed, they knew of the assurances given to the likes of Galway and Shamrocks (or could have surmised it from their public utterances) and were given adequate warning here and elsewhere.
Delaney's bluff was there to be called, and instead they granted him carte blanche.
I agree. We voted for it and we have no leg to stand on. I think you're (not you, Sheridan) silly if you think we actually agree with the proposals. We clearly have nothing to gain by it and everything to lose.
OneRedArmy
12/09/2006, 11:02 PM
Lets cut to the chase.
Those clubs who know they are in voted yes, as they have nothing to lose. They see a potential pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and they are all running helter skelter towards it (note the use of the word "potential").
Likewise, the clubs who know they haven't a chance of getting within an arses roar of the super-duper Premier Division voted yes, as in the true FAI way, they'll be looked after for going within the consensus, or alternatively, punished for going against the grain.
That leaves a small rump of clubs that have hedged their bets, voted yes not to rock the boat, but are keeping the Get Out of Jail card (aka next stop the High Court) firmly lodged in their back pockets when the cards are dealt at the end of the season.
Do people expect anything else?!
Poor Student
12/09/2006, 11:08 PM
but are keeping the Get Out of Jail card (aka next stop the High Court) firmly lodged in their back pockets when the cards are dealt at the end of the season.
Does having voted for it not seriously negate any chance of a successful appeal?
mypost
13/09/2006, 12:36 AM
even when the clubs vote for it, they didnt!!!
note that came from one of the UCD boys.
I don't think there is a thread on this issue without a whinge from Belfield.
All clubs will get what they deserve for a FAI Christmas present. Congratulations for qualifying for the Premier Division, or Good Luck in the First Division in 2007.
Partizan
13/09/2006, 9:05 AM
Despite the ominous shrieking from Pinneapple I think UCD are safe. Despite their lack of any substantial fanbase, they will wing it on the grounds of facilities - the new Bowl, scholarships, coaching set up, track record etc. UCD have/and will offer alot to Irish soccer and are a well respected nursery club. Ok there maybe a desire by Delaney to jettison one of the Dublin based clubs but I think the demise of Dublin City made the job a helluva lot easier. Bray, the other Dublin based side will almost certain now get the chop.
Who will go up? Many hear say Rovers and Galway go up, but if Talaght isnt sorted out by December/January we could see the Hoops in a spot of bother and perhaps see one of the likes of Dundalk/Cobh or even Athlone given the nod. However I do think sense will prevail and the GAA obstructionist tactics will be given the firm boot by the High Court allowing Rovers back in.
Premier next season: Waterford are a shoe-in. Their 5 year record is quite good, good catchment area, youth set-up, facilities and of course John Delaney :D . UCD safe. Bray will go down leaving Rovers and Galway to replace them. If any of the clubs do take their legal appeals to the courts of the land I do think they should at least take proper legal advice beforehand as their objections simply would not stand up in court.
Poor Student
13/09/2006, 9:23 AM
If you look closely at the paramaters, they're fiarly ill-defined and vague and could easily be bent against UCD. I don't know why you think Bray are such dead certs to go down. The whole structure of the thing leaves the impact of placings this season to have a minimal effect. To be fair to Bray, they're sorting out their ground and have further work to do. The released information doesn't say much about whether it's the current state of your ground at the time of evaluation (the Bowl will not be quite ready due to planning objections) or future plans. If it's at time of evaluation, Bray now have one up on UCD. They have a bigger fanbase and we're both close enough in terms of placing over the last 4 years.
What the FAI do with UCD is really going to be the acid test of how fair this process will be. In any event, whether we are chosen to stay up or not, I still see no reason not to use league placings to decide the entrants to the new league. Nonsense.
Magicme
13/09/2006, 10:54 AM
We abstained.
Athlone will go up.
harpskid
13/09/2006, 11:03 AM
Athlone will go up.
....Come again....:ball: :ball: :eek:
Magicme
13/09/2006, 11:05 AM
Of course they will...do u think that they would b pumping so much money into their new stadium if they hadnt a wink & a nod....and with the eL chairman being an Athlone man you would be mad to think that they werent going to be part of the new premier league.
Schumi
13/09/2006, 11:33 AM
My decision to vote for Fianna Fail doesn't reflect my views on their policies as a whole.
I support Fine Gael :rolleyes:Did 99.5% of Iraqis support Saddam Hussein in his last 'election'?
Regardless, appealing something to the courts after voting for it is ridiculous.
bluemovie
13/09/2006, 11:35 AM
Why would the FAI have put in the criterion of last five years performance if they were going to let Athlone in?? I don't think Athlone have any chance. However, if they top the First Division in 2007, then they will be promoted if their new ground is in order and they meet the other criteria.
I'd say nobody was happier than the FAI when the Blues beat Bray on Friday. I've never thought we were in danger of missing out unless we finished about 20 points behind the second-from-bottom team (which was a distinct possibility at one stage). If Bray, as looks likely, finish bottom, they will have very little defence if the FAI relegate them.
If they want a regional spread of teams, then I'd imagine the masterplan was for Waterford, Galway and Limerick to be represented (and Rovers back up for other reasons). Limerick seem to have blown their chances for next season. I reckon Delaney wants Rovers and Galway up at Bray and Dublin City RIP's expense. The big problem would have been justifying that if those clubs finished miles ahead of Waterford.
As for UCD, I feel they might just have enough to convince the FAI to keep them up. They're very well-run and have consistently been in the top division (apart from the one year out). The FAI might have some grand bullsh*t plan of how to attract a bigger support from the campus.
Dundalk could have a decent case for promotion too, but I'm not sure if the smallest county in Ireland having 2 of the 12 Premier clubs will fit the geographical spread they were looking for. As for Cobh, Kilkenny, Monaghan, Kildare or Harps, I can't see how any of them could have a strong enough case to be promoted for next season.
BohDiddley
13/09/2006, 11:48 AM
Bray will go down leaving Rovers and Galway to replace them. If any of the clubs do take their legal appeals to the courts of the land I do think they should at least take proper legal advice beforehand as their objections simply would not stand up in court.
Bray have a huge catchment area, their own ground, and fantastic potential in terms of fans, with all of north Wickla and much of south Dublin. Also have strong roots in schoolboys, with Joey's link etc.
I think it'd be a shame to lose the outing to the seaside.
DmanDmythDledge
13/09/2006, 11:55 AM
If any of the clubs do take their legal appeals to the courts of the land I do think they should at least take proper legal advice beforehand as their objections simply would not stand up in court.
Their objections would stand up as it is in UEFA rules that league placings can only be decided on league postions, or something to that effect.
OneRedArmy
13/09/2006, 12:12 PM
Their objections would stand up as it is in UEFA rules that league placings can only be decided on league postions, or something to that effect.You seem not to have grasped that this is irrelevant to the FAI's plans.
The Eircom League as we know it is being DISBANDED, as voted by its members.
It is being replaced by an entirely new League, which as one of its entrance criteria, has past performance in the prior League structure.
I don't see how this breaches UEFA rules in any way.
Red&White
13/09/2006, 12:19 PM
UCD will get in. It will be a travesty if they don't.
NY Hoop
13/09/2006, 3:02 PM
Despite the ominous shrieking from Pinneapple I think UCD are safe. Despite their lack of any substantial fanbase, they will wing it on the grounds of facilities - the new Bowl, scholarships, coaching set up, track record etc. UCD have/and will offer alot to Irish soccer and are a well respected nursery club. Ok there maybe a desire by Delaney to jettison one of the Dublin based clubs but I think the demise of Dublin City made the job a helluva lot easier. Bray, the other Dublin based side will almost certain now get the chop.
Who will go up? Many hear say Rovers and Galway go up, but if Talaght isnt sorted out by December/January we could see the Hoops in a spot of bother and perhaps see one of the likes of Dundalk/Cobh or even Athlone given the nod. However I do think sense will prevail and the GAA obstructionist tactics will be given the firm boot by the High Court allowing Rovers back in.
Premier next season: Waterford are a shoe-in. Their 5 year record is quite good, good catchment area, youth set-up, facilities and of course John Delaney :D . UCD safe. Bray will go down leaving Rovers and Galway to replace them. If any of the clubs do take their legal appeals to the courts of the land I do think they should at least take proper legal advice beforehand as their objections simply would not stand up in court.
Agree. Have always said that if we finish in the top 2 we'll go up and that will be the new premier 12. Naturally it should be decided on the pitch but..........
Two questions to the dundalk fans:
Fair play with getting bigger crowds and all but playing on friday or saturday nights would significantly increase your away support if you did go up. Secondly are there any plans on putting a gantry, even a temporary one, as next weeks game could be a cracker and it would be a shame if there was no camera at it. Being on tv increases your profile as I'm sure your new owner knows.
KOH
You seem not to have grasped that this is irrelevant to the FAI's plans.
The Eircom League as we know it is being DISBANDED, as voted by its members.
It is being replaced by an entirely new League, which as one of its entrance criteria, has past performance in the prior League structure.
I don't see how this breaches UEFA rules in any way.
That's the crux of the matter, there is to be no continuity across the coming off-season.
What is effectively happening is that the current league is coming to a complete end, a totally new league is starting up next season, and the FAI are more or less 'inviting applications' to the top tier of this new league.
On that basis they can admit pretty much who they like to the new Premier, with no legal repercussions whatsoever.
The only thing they must do is use their (pretty vague and ill-defined) criteria to prove a club should be asked to step inside or to do one. I think legally the FAI's homework is done on this one, and there's enough ambiguity in their rules to back up any decision they make, even promoting Athlone! :p
We abstained.
Thats even worse! Ye had no opinion on one of the biggest ever changes to the eL. :rolleyes:
pineapple stu
13/09/2006, 5:30 PM
There's a huge difference between abstaining and not having an opinion.
The two clubs who didn't turn up to the vote (Kildare and Cobh reportedly) could be accused of not having an opinion. Not Monaghan.
Poor Student
13/09/2006, 6:16 PM
Thats even worse! Ye had no opinion on one of the biggest ever changes to the eL. :rolleyes:
Don't be so naive, Pete.
holidaysong
13/09/2006, 6:45 PM
Two questions to the dundalk fans:
Fair play with getting bigger crowds and all but playing on friday or saturday nights would significantly increase your away support if you did go up. Secondly are there any plans on putting a gantry, even a temporary one, as next weeks game could be a cracker and it would be a shame if there was no camera at it. Being on tv increases your profile as I'm sure your new owner knows.
It has been explained before on this site why our games are on a Thursday - the revenue gained from the bar being hired out on a Friday and Saturday night. We are playing Finn Harps on Friday night though due to the First Division fixtures last night so it will be interesting to see if there is any significant change in attendance.
I have no idea if there are plans to put up a gantry. TG4 put up their own temporary one last year when broadcasting the FAI Cup game against Drogheda United. If we were in the Premier Division, I'm sure something would be sorted out so as to have highlights on eL weekly.
passerrby
13/09/2006, 7:15 PM
we abstained because while we believe the FAI should run the EL we do not believe that genisis was the way forward, secondly There was never any other plan or ideas allowed on the table other that genisis
bigmac
14/09/2006, 8:47 AM
Just thinking about this and I remembered that if a team takes their league to court(or something like that) that the country in question is banned from international qualifiers and all of that country's European representatives are barred from competing in Europe.
Could hardly be that with the situation in Italy. Maybe there's some regulation to allow penalties to be imposed on any team who does follow that course - I know that the Italian FA were threatening to impose a more stringent penalty on Juve if they went to court.
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