Supporting British teams

[Plastic Paddy]

PP what attracts you to the Irish team? Would you not class yourself as English with Irish parents and not Irish. I would be very interested to hear your views on this.

Don't worry hoops1 - it's a perfectly acceptable question and I'm happy to answer in the same spirit. I regard myself as Irish. I hold only an Irish passport. I think of myself as an Irish child born and raised in England. Think of Kevin Kilbane's connection with Ireland and you have a parallel. So it's completely logical for me to support Ireland. Ironically it's only ever other Irish who seem to have a problem with my definition of myself as Irish, but there you go.


Oh dear!
I can see right inside Pandora's Box and it aint a pretty sight! :eek:

I'm mellowing out in my old age Peadar... ;)

:ball: PP

[dcfcsteve]

Quite simply because of the "special case" you referred to earlier. Celtic is a club of the Irish diaspora. That's the difference. As a 2G, I'm not "proper" Irish nor am I "proper" British (I have lost count of the number of times snide comments have been levelled at me by "real" Irish due to my accent - and this whilst watching Ireland ffs!) I am however, a full-blown real-deal member of the Irish diaspora and find concert with this expression when watching Celtic.

In any case, I've been to the Showgrounds, to Terryland Park and to St Mel's Park enough times over the years to try and feel something for one of the sides "local" to where my parents hail from. Failed on every occasion. And not just because of the poor quality of the football on show either; the overall experience in each case just didn't do it for me. In contrast, going to Celtic Park those first few times just blew me away; from standing in the Jungle as a teenager to watching the closing twists of stopping Rangers' bid for ten-in-a-row. Even now I still get excited when the trip north is to watch Kilmarnock or Falkirk on a wet January afternoon.

PP - This thread isn't about 2G's - its about Irish people, born and bred in Ireland, who loyally follow everything local and Irish in every sport bar football, but yet turn their backs on local, Irish soccer teams in favour of adopting foreign clubs as if they were as local to them as their parish GAA side. 2G's are clearly a special case, and that isn't meant in any prejorative sense. Celtic would appear to fulfill a similar role to the Irish national team for you, as you have no direct first-hand link to any specific Irish area/club (because you wreen't born in Ireland. Again - not a pejorative statement in any way).

Leaving the diaspora experience aside, can you not see the absurdity of Irish people loyally supporting local and Irish teams in everything from rugby to tiddlywinks, but then supporting foreign clubs in soccer only as if they were a local side to them ?


I did and, despite your assertions, to many people the answer runs contrary to your view. One of my close friends is a nationalist and a football fan from Ballycastle - he has Ballymena, Coleraine and Larne as the nearest IL sides to choose from, none of which appeal for the reasons you state. He feels no connection with any other Irish club - Shelbourne may as well be Sheffield Wednesday to him. So, given the strong tradition of Celtic support locally and the means to travel regularly to CP, Celtic is his club.

Shelbourne may as well be Sheffield Wednesday to your friend, but there are other much more local Irish sides that would reflect the nationalist persuasion of a Northern Irish football supporter - if that was what was important to them in choosing a football team. Cliftonville would be an obvious example - and North Belfast is not all that far away from Ballycastle. Dare I say it, some would probably view Derry City or even Shamrock Rovers as fiulfilling such a role for them as well. If Irish heritage/connection was a key motivator to your friend in choosing a football, surely you must realise that it was strange of him to overlook the teams within Ireland who are Irish in favour of one outside of Ireland with an Irish connection. Understandable yes - given that that is what most Irish people do. But strange nonetheless when viewed objectively. It would be like a Dubliner going to Birmingham regularly to sit in an O'Neills pub, because he loved the whole Irish pub experience.......


Anyway, in all of this I think people are missing a crucial point about the nature of football support. It's fairly obvious what the drivers are that underpin many of the people posting here - a connection with their local area, an expression of support for Irish football, knowing everyone inside the ground, whatever. All very noble but you all overlook the point that in an increasingly time-poor society, watching football to many people, especially when Sky makes it so accessible, is just another form of entertainment. That puts it in competition with going to the cinema, playing the PS2/DSD (or whatever) and even going shopping (dammit!)

There are 2 different types of Irish people who follow foreign football whilst ignoring the local variety. Barstoolers are indeed in the category you describe above - people just looking for something entertaining to fill 2 hours of their life. They rarely go to live football anywhere, so whilst we can all snear at them they are not in my mind the arch-villians of the piece here. The other type are the tens of thousands who actively support foreign football whilst refusing to do so for the home-grown variety. Those who pour onto boats and planes every weekend to watch "their" team in grim English, Scottish or Welsh towns and cities, or locations even further afield. Those who spend hundreds if not thousands of Euro/pounds each year following a team they selected for most likely spurious reasons in the first place, but who they now treat as if they were as local to them as their nearest pub and the school their kids go to. Society is indeed increasingly time-poor - which makes the decision to spend days travelling overseas to watch 90mins of club football even more absurd from a time point of view, when you have a local brand of the product available right on your doorstep. If people really are that time poor, then why are they ignoring local avaialbility and instead spending so much time travelling overseas to do what they would never do in any other sport or walk of life - i.e. supporting foreign over Irish.

Irish people's support of everything local and Irish in every walk of life bar football is quite simply psychologically indefensible when viewed objectively. The nation should be perched on a psychiatrist's couch to work out how the hell this happened, and what 'therapy' is required to reverse such a societal anomally/blindness.

[Vitruvian Man]

There are 2 different types of Irish people who follow foreign football whilst ignoring the local variety. Barstoolers are indeed in the category you describe above ... The other type are the tens of thousands who actively support foreign football whilst refusing to do so for the home-grown variety. Those who pour onto boats and planes every weekend to watch "their" team in grim English, Scottish or Welsh towns and cities, or locations even further afield.

We need a lable to descibe this second type of "fan". How about...


Gloryholer


I think that covers both the letter and the spirit of what they are doing.

[BohsPartisan]

Its not just in Ireland though, there are French bar-stoolers who only watch Serie A.
As I've said before Bohs come first but I love my trips to Goodison. Its not just going for "90 minutes of football" but its a social thing. I go over with some other lads (the friend who I most often go with is a GUFC fan.) and its just a great buzz.

[Peadar]

As I've said before Bohs come first but I love my trips to Goodison. Its not just going for "90 minutes of football" but its a social thing.

Like I've said before, in my opinion, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone on this forum. I would argue that by going to other games makes you a better Bohs fan by giving you a greater appreciation of the game.

[BohsPartisan]

Crown exchequer benefactors?

I presume you buy only Irish products then when you do your shopping?

[hoops1]

I think to people on this site football is more important than
what shampoo you use.

[BohsPartisan]

No. but I do buy Irish sometimes.

So you buy Brittish as well? For shame.


I think to people on this site football is more important than
what shampoo you use.
Yeah but I was remarking upon his "Crown exchequer benefactors" remark.

[endabob1]

but thats not true, if you look at the attendances of championship and league games, a lot of them are over 10,000, in the lower leagues some teams get well over 5000..................any eircom team would love to get these kind of attendances

There are 50 million people in England and 4m in Ireland.
There are 92 League clubs in England and 21 in Ireland
The bare facts suggest there are too many clubs in Ireland to be even contemplating the type of support you get at English Grounds.
As far as competition from other sports go you have the GAA (where the Championship now competes dircetly through the summer months for support)and the increasing popularity of Rugby, both international and provincial.
In England there is a 12 team premiership in Rugby, most of whom groundshare with (rent from, therefore provide revenue to) fooball clubs, that is the sole competition for supporters and Rugby here still attracts its core suport from the "old school tie" supporters.
You're not comparing like with like there fella.

I actually agree that you should support your local team but I'm not going to demonise anyone for supporting a team from anywhere else for whatever reasons they see fit.
It's up to the Eircom Leage and the FAI to make the league more attractive, they need to invest in the facilities so when Derry draw PSG they can accomodae more than 3,000 people ditto for Cork/Shels etc...
Acadameys need to be set up NOW to stop young players going to England and getting lost in the system, keep them in Ireland, employ top coaches and raise the standard in the league.
Both these things require money but it will pay long term dividends.
Maybe Bohs influx of cash will see them lead the way in investment in a youth acadamey to add to their swanky new stadium.

[BohsPartisan]

No. No shame in being an Irish and British football fan. Once you're a fan of an Irish club.

Well then we're on the same page.

[endabob1]

endabob i dont think the championship in gaa is a direct competitor.there is very little eircom league on a sunday

Fair enough but would you go to an Eircom game on a Friday Night and then a GAA match on a Sunday when there's a wife and a couple of screaming kids to look after/feed/keep out of trouble/the shops........

I get the point that they may not be a direct clash all the time but the simple fact that they're drawing support from the same relatively small pool of sports fans means something has to give.
I'd be interested to see the stats on the move to summer football in relation to attendances, I don't think there's any doubt the standards have gone up.

[endabob1]

sorry endabob ive no kids yet and i make the missus work so i have plenty of moey for these things;) though your spot on at 15e/8e on a friday then anothr 20e-30e for a gaa game it would be expensive alright

Luck Boy;)

I think it's a matter of picking up casual fans, hardcore fans will go week in, week out but your casual general sports fans will make choices and the more competition there is the better the product (I hate using that word) has to be.

[Soper]

How many people in Iireland would be fans of Football though?That is the only figure that counts - if 1 million people like football, then clubs shoud at the very least be able to call on gates of at least 8,000 a match, on average.The fact is, people in Ireland do not support their own, which is wrong.

[NY Hoop]

And with those words of wisdom ringing in my ears I bow out of this thread knowing that I am right and you are wrong good sir, I bid you good day

Quality argument there.

Plastic Paddy you have come to the wrong conclusion again. I never rubbished any claim of anyone to have Irish citizenship. To come to that conclusion is absurd.

How hard is it to understand that Irish people in Ireland should support an Irish club?

And no more nonsense such as do you speak the language or buy Irish products?:rolleyes:

KOH

[endabob1]

How many people in Iireland would be fans of Football though?That is the only figure that counts - if 1 million people like football, then clubs shoud at the very least be able to call on gates of at least 8,000 a match, on average.The fact is, people in Ireland do not support their own, which is wrong.

As you're from Sligo I'll use your county as an example
County Population 58,200
And where I live, Northamptonshire
County Population 629,676
You have 1 league club, so do we.
Average attendances
Sligo Rovers
1800 - 2000 (Taken from the attendance thread)
Northampton Town
Circa 5,000

The popultation is 10 times more but the attendances is about 2.5 times more.
I realise this is quite simplistic but I don't believe that there is the capacity for a club like Sligo to get 8,000+ fans on a regular basis. For clubs in Dublin where there is a sizeable population then maybe....

[Jaime]

How many people in Iireland would be fans of Football though?That is the only figure that counts - if 1 million people like football, then clubs shoud at the very least be able to call on gates of at least 8,000 a match, on average.The fact is, people in Ireland do not support their own, which is wrong.

On the money.
Population of greater Dublin area: approx 1m= 500,000 males. Taking away whoever is too old and too young, even if one fifth of them have an interest in football, it should be enough.

[Soper]

You also have to take into consideration away fans, and also the fact we get a lfew fans, I believe, from Leitrim, Roscommon etc.If al the people in Sligo that watch Premiership matches, be it down the pub or at home, went to the Showgrounds, we'd have a semi decent crowd.Hell, even if half of them did, then we would.

[Réiteoir]

I've come from the other direction - born in England to Irish parents - so grew up with Bohs and my local non-league team here in England.

I was taken over to my first game at Dalymount many many years ago (forget the date exactly) - but in the intervening years (due to education and work) my chances to go and watch games there fizzled out to none.

Then about 8 years back I managed to get a good fulltime job that paid well enough for me to start making the trips back over on a regular basis - something which resulted in me from then until now travelling over to between 7 - 15 games a season (as well as going to Estonia and Belgium on European trips).

Now I'm moved over and living in Dublin full time - meaning I'll hopefully be at 95% of all our future matches.

I still keep an interest in my local hometown side in England - I've actually gone back to England for a few days to pick up some more stuff and will be out the door in the next twenty minutes to watch us play our local derby against Redditch United at home in Nationwide Conference North (€15 to get in, terracing, 1,500 fans at the game, mixing with the opposition fans and seeing a lot of familiar faces - much like the eircom League in fact)

And finally I also follow the Norwegian side Valerenga closely - due to a few factors.

a). We go over to Oslo every summer since 1998 for a working holiday - slap bang in the middle of the season - so got to see a few games involving them.

b). They have some links with Bohs - they are known as the "Bohemian Club" in Norway due to the mix of people who attend games - and the club bar in the centre of town which is owned and run by the largest fan group attached to the club (the Klanen) - is called "Bohemens" (which is Bohemians in Norwegian)

c). Thanks to an official legal TV website provided by Norwegian Channel TV2 I can watch every League game in Norway (be it involving Valerenga or not) live on the web.



No problem with people following teams over there, its those who do it while neglecting our league that annoys me - especially those who put it down without ever having seen 60 seconds of it.

Personally I keep an keen eye out for Hereford. Family from there, just up the road from Edgar St, and saw them a good bit when I was younger.


:eek: - another reason not to get on with you lot ;) - my home town team in England is Worcester City.

How I long to get the glory days of the 70's and early 80's back when we used to get gates of 8,000 - 10,000 for the games involving our clubs.

Now we have to make do with Redditch United and Kidderminster to satisfy our bile and rivalry :D

EnDai - I assume they're not far from Widemarsh Common and the Sun Valley factory?

[dcfcsteve]

attracting casual fans mean having nice stadiums for every club.

What - like all those lovely GAA grounds in minor counties around the island.....? They still get casual fans giving them larger crowds than EL games. So is it really just about stadiums ? Or is it again more about the absurdly fcuked-up psychology of Irish people towards football and only football ?


if i wasnt bothered about following the drogs i wouldnt go to united park :eek: :D

Why else would you go there anyway - to go horse riding....? ;)

[BohsPartisan]

What - like all those lovely GAA grounds in minor counties around the island.....? They still get casual fans giving them larger crowds than EL games.


Too true. Meath V Louth in Navan in 2002 had 25,000 in Pairc Tailteann. Dalymount and Tolka are both better grounds.

[NeilMcD]

I dont think its the grounds at all it is the media exposure that happened during the 70s and the huge amount of Irish players that went to play in England. During the 60s the crowds were pretty big for LOI games. During the 70s and 80s media exposure to the live games week in week out From England took away many of the supporters in my view. There are other reasons of course but that is the main reason in my view.

[endabob1]

You also have to take into consideration away fans, and also the fact we get a lfew fans, I believe, from Leitrim, Roscommon etc.If al the people in Sligo that watch Premiership matches, be it down the pub or at home, went to the Showgrounds, we'd have a semi decent crowd.Hell, even if half of them did, then we would.

I know there is always the bar stool argument, but that argument still applys in provincial towns up and down England, there are more arsenal/chelsea/manyoo shirts on my street than Northampton shirts, fact of life I'm afraid.
I think the Roscommon boys should be going to watch Athlone Town anyway, it's much closer than the showgrounds, maybe a few from Boyle or Tulsk might get to Sligo but south of that has to be DeTown's catchment area;)

[Plastic Paddy]

can you not see the absurdity of Irish people loyally supporting local and Irish teams in everything from rugby to tiddlywinks, but then supporting foreign clubs in soccer only as if they were a local side to them?


I still keep an interest in my local hometown side in England [Worcester City]... and will be out the door in the next twenty minutes to watch us play our local derby against Redditch United at home in Nationwide Conference North (€15 to get in, terracing, 1,500 fans at the game, mixing with the opposition fans and seeing a lot of familiar faces - much like the eircom League in fact)

I think we have us the answer right here Steve - this comparison of equivalence between the Nationwide Conference North and the eircom League is very revealing. Perception of product quality is all in the minds of many of those who attend football matches - "supporting Irish" wouldn't seem to be a valid reason for the vast majority of Irish football fans to choose an eL side - they'd point to the crumbling stadia, the lack of comfortable surroundings and the absence of hype as reasons not to go (like I said, this is about perceptions - these reasons may or may not be correct). So it's absurd to you that Irish football fans don't follow their local eL side but not to those who cross the sea every week in their thousands. (What is completely absurd is the situation described in a previous post where, depending on their allegiance, Dubs call other Dubs "scousers" and "Mancs". That is truly ridiculous.)


I know there is always the bar stool argument, but that argument still applys in provincial towns up and down England, there are more arsenal/chelsea/manyoo shirts on my street than Northampton shirts, fact of life I'm afraid.

Agreed EB. The same phenomenon has emerged this side of the water - plenty of people eschew the delights of their local non-league or even Football League side for the Premiership team a hundred miles away. Hampshire - despite having Southampton and even Portsmouth (a Premiership club themselves ffs!) based in the county - is full of Chelsea fans. Ditto Kent, Surrey and Sussex, which must leave Brighton, Crystal Palace and Gillingham directors in despair.

:ball: PP

[BohsPartisan]

I was sitting beside a cockney Evertonian at the game on Saturday.
I think Wales is a classic example of Bar-stooling. How many people support LOW sides? When you're in Wales all you see is Liverpool, Everton, Man U jerseys - apart from in Cardiff and Swansea where you see a few of the local teams who obviously play in the English League.

[Docboy]

Lads at the end of the day people should be & are free to chose to support whoever they like. I'll never do anything because I'm supposed to. I'm glad that there a lot of people like yourselves around who care passionately about the EL but maybe you should lighten up when it comes to the rest of us "barstoolers".

To say that we're any the less football fans is just pants and critising people like that will only serve to get their back up.

[Soper]

How can we lighten up when something which is perfectly viable is treated with such contempt

[sonofstan]

As you're from Sligo I'll use your county as an example
County Population 58,200
And where I live, Northamptonshire
County Population 629,676
You have 1 league club, so do we.
Average attendances
Sligo Rovers
1800 - 2000 (Taken from the attendance thread)
Northampton Town
Circa 5,000

The popultation is 10 times more but the attendances is about 2.5 times more.
I realise this is quite simplistic but I don't believe that there is the capacity for a club like Sligo to get 8,000+ fans on a regular basis. For clubs in Dublin where there is a sizeable population then maybe....

Not totally sure if that proves anything - Sunderland has a population of 280,000 and the club has 25,000 season ticket holders; nearly 10% of the city. Cork has -what? - 180,000 and 3-4 000 go to TC every second fri. under 2% of the city

[bennocelt]

As you're from Sligo I'll use your county as an example
County Population 58,200
And where I live, Northamptonshire
County Population 629,676
You have 1 league club, so do we.
Average attendances
Sligo Rovers
1800 - 2000 (Taken from the attendance thread)
Northampton Town
Circa 5,000

The popultation is 10 times more but the attendances is about 2.5 times more.
I realise this is quite simplistic but I don't believe that there is the capacity for a club like Sligo to get 8,000+ fans on a regular basis. For clubs in Dublin where there is a sizeable population then maybe....



actually thats quite good the wya you came up with that
and i agree
but if you compare it to the Ga, and the horse racing, and how many irish are heading to britain for football every weekend

i remember 10 years ago ior more, it was embaressing to be a celtic fan, now, funny........now every where, like they were supporting for years
makes you sick really

[bennocelt]

I've come from the other direction - born in England to Irish parents - so grew up with Bohs and my local non-league team here in England.

I was taken over to my first game at Dalymount many many years ago (forget the date exactly) - but in the intervening years (due to education and work) my chances to go and watch games there fizzled out to none.

Then about 8 years back I managed to get a good fulltime job that paid well enough for me to start making the trips back over on a regular basis - something which resulted in me from then until now travelling over to between 7 - 15 games a season (as well as going to Estonia and Belgium on European trips).

Now I'm moved over and living in Dublin full time - meaning I'll hopefully be at 95% of all our future matches.

I still keep an interest in my local hometown side in England - I've actually gone back to England for a few days to pick up some more stuff and will be out the door in the next twenty minutes to watch us play our local derby against Redditch United at home in Nationwide Conference North (€15 to get in, terracing, 1,500 fans at the game, mixing with the opposition fans and seeing a lot of familiar faces - much like the eircom League in fact)

And finally I also follow the Norwegian side Valerenga closely - due to a few factors.

a). We go over to Oslo every summer since 1998 for a working holiday - slap bang in the middle of the season - so got to see a few games involving them.

b). They have some links with Bohs - they are known as the "Bohemian Club" in Norway due to the mix of people who attend games - and the club bar in the centre of town which is owned and run by the largest fan group attached to the club (the Klanen) - is called "Bohemens" (which is Bohemians in Norwegian)

c). Thanks to an official legal TV website provided by Norwegian Channel TV2 I can watch every League game in Norway (be it involving Valerenga or not) live on the web.





:eek: - another reason not to get on with you lot ;) - my home town team in England is Worcester City.

How I long to get the glory days of the 70's and early 80's back when we used to get gates of 8,000 - 10,000 for the games involving our clubs.

Now we have to make do with Redditch United and Kidderminster to satisfy our bile and rivalry :D

EnDai - I assume they're not far from Widemarsh Common and the Sun Valley factory?

respect:

[endabob1]

Not totally sure if that proves anything - Sunderland has a population of 280,000 and the club has 25,000 season ticket holders; nearly 10% of the city. Cork has -what? - 180,000 and 3-4 000 go to TC every second fri. under 2% of the city

As I said I realise my example was quite simplistic but my basic point I think is valid, that considering the competition from GAA all over the country & Rugby in places like Cork/Limerick & Dublin provincial EL Clubs like Sligo are more than holding their own in terms of their attendances. I don't think it's feasible to get crowds of 8,000+ as Soper was aiming for on a regular basis.

Never been to Sunderland so I wouldn't have thought of it as an example but we are constantly being told by Sky the Sunderland are a MASSIVE club and the North East is a hot bed of football:D

[sligobhoy67]

keith foy and harpel singh is better than any villa player too so whats the point:D

Yeah thats the reason Petrov didnt sign for us...he was shiitin himself that we wouldnt get in the team

[Drumcondra Red]

I do, Derby County, family is from there so thats why, try to get over a few times a season

[Docboy]

but you are the less football fan. you are free to follow your english side and think you are great, we are free to mock you for that cop out of a choice.

following english football is an anti-establishment reactionary thing? :confused: get real

Yes pal you are a far superior being than me. How can I ever catch up. HA ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drinkfeckarse]

but you are the less football fan. you are free to follow your english side and think you are great, we are free to mock you for that cop out of a choice.


And people are free to mock you for thinking you are "special" :rolleyes:

There are very good points to both sides of the argument and excellently put across by dcfcsteve and PP however I can't help feeling that a lot of people have missed a simple point before jumping up on their soapboxes.

Again I say IMO, that football is about feeling. Those feelings can be for a team that's across the road or across the water. There is no logic in it and as much as people say support your local team I have still to find anyone that can tell me why other than "because you should". Why should I support my local team instead of someone else?? What seems like logic for you does not necessarily mean logic for me.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm a Cobh lad born and bred who played for Cobh. Now some people would expect me to support Cobh but I don't, I just don't have that "feeling". It's not my fault and it's not something I can explain as I like EL football and am always wanting Irish clubs to progress in Europe.

So the next time when people get on their high horses and look down their noses on people who don't support their hometown team, then hopefully you won't be so ignorant to assume that they think the EL is rubbish or that they are naive and waste all their money on trips to England or Scotland. You can't explain it, just accept it and live and let live.

[Docboy]

Excellent post.

[Kildare Lad]

IMO,I think the difference between supporting your local side and a foreign side is that, if you support your Local side (i.e. Kildare County) your more like a Kildare County Supporter, but if you support a foreign side (i.e. Liverpool) your more like a football supporter.....

Now I support Kildare County & Liverpool, Kildare County because of the thrill of when they win and being able to experience everytin every step of the way, and Liverpool because of the quality of football they play, the fact that they are worldwide famous and that its something to talk about when your with your mates, and the thrill of going over to Anfield.

I call myself a supporter of both sides, no matter what people say. And I understand why people support the teams they do, so whats the point in critisicing them on who they support?

[bennocelt]

...

Now I support Kildare County & Liverpool, Kildare County because of the thrill of when they win and being able to experience everytin every step of the way, and Liverpool because of the quality Iof football they play, the fact that they are worldwide famous and that its something to talk about when your with your mates, and the thrill of going over to Anfield.



liverpool and quality of football.thats funny :)

[Docboy]

RoverstilIdie, Fair play to you for owning part of the club, I happen to greatly respect what you lot done at the time to save the club having been working with a chap who had to skip out of the job to attend the meetings and filling me in on the in & outs.

And I fully accept the point of the Chelsea "fans" and prior to that United ones who crawl out of the woodwork & your antipathy to them.

But my point is that I spent time in London every year of my life and Spurs happened to be the first ground I visited as a lad. They grabbed my affection and nothing has changed since through a lot of frustrating times.

I've also been to watch Celtic & Rovers as it happens over the years and while I still look out for their results, Spurs would be my first love. I've never ran anyone down for following the EL & can appreciate how it must grate to be ridiculed for doing so.

However, people thinking that they are superior because they follow the EL is as laughable as the opposite situation. Each to their own.

[sonofstan]

This from the fiver today....

The best thing about tonight's Big Cup matches featuring the MU Rowdies and the Queen's Celtic is that it allows Sky Sports News to canvas the opinions of both teams' fans without having to speak to more than one person. If the footage on the Fiver's telly is anything to go by, Manchester city centre is currently infested with confused Irishmen who support the Scottish champions from Scotland in Great Britain because they're an Irish team, but also support the MU Rowdies because they were top of the English league in England in Great Britain when these glory-hunting bandwagon-jumpers first took an interest in football.

[Dodge]

Wriiten by an Irishman incidentally

[ger121]

All hail Celtic the only Irish team worth supporting;)

[gspain]

Well 3-2 to one Irish team over another tonight. Yah Yah yah we have RTE advertising all their fantastic football coverage this Autumn and no mention of Irish football but Malcom O'Glazier's boys will be on every week.

Ultimately thogh it is something we need to sort out in our league to make it more attractive. I hate to think how many Irish people were in Old Trafford tonight.

[Raheny Red]

It's the biggest derby in Irish football.

[OneRedArmy]

I'd visions of schitzophrenic Irish people in half and half Celtic/Man U scarves at Old Trafford and in every bar around the country tearing themselves in two trying to simultaneously celebrate and hurl abuse at their "heroes" on both sides.

Only in Ireland.

[BohDiddley]

Wriiten by an Irishman incidentally
I thought so. That'd give them licence for the paddy-whackery. And they had that nifty piece on Barry Andrews.
Any clue who, or is that classified?

[sonofstan]

I thought so. That'd give them licence for the paddy-whackery. And they had that nifty piece on Barry Andrews.
Any clue who, or is that classified?

Sean Ingle and Barry Glendenning on the fiver team are both Irish AFAIK - think one or the other is a closet Bohemian

[endabob1]

Sean Ingle and Barry Glendenning on the fiver team are both Irish AFAIK - think one or the other is a closet Bohemian

Glendenning is from Birr in Offaly, although he used to write for Hot Press in Dublin.

[Hitman]

Ingle is English, I think Paul Doyle's the other Irishman on the Fiver team (besides Theme Pub O' Fiver of course).

[sonofstan]

Ingle is English, I think Paul Doyle's the other Irishman on the Fiver team (besides Theme Pub O' Fiver of course).

Sorry, you're right. My bad