What to do with the minnows

[holidaysong]

I think you have gotten me wrong Stu. If after reading that book you still wanted to throw them out in the wilderness then, in my opinion, you really couldn't claim to be a passionate football supporter. The results are not important. What is important is the passion that the Liechtenstein fans and players have for the team. If you wanted to kill off this passion, by putting them into pre-qualifying, then I don't think you could claim to be a football supporter yourself. The people who want to bring in pre-qualifying are more like football consumers than football supporters. These are probably the same people that will watch nothing but English, Spanish and Italian league football.

[Student Mullet]

I think you have gotten me wrong Stu. If after reading that book you still wanted to throw them out in the wilderness then, in my opinion, you really couldn't claim to be a passionate football supporter. The results are not important. What is important is the passion that the Liechtenstein fans and players have for the team. If you wanted to kill off this passion, by putting them into pre-qualifying, then I don't think you could claim to be a football supporter yourself. The people who want to bring in pre-qualifying are more like football consumers than football supporters. These are probably the same people that will watch nothing but English, Spanish and Italian league football.The same could be said of a Lichtensteinen supporter who would be less passionate if his team were playing smaller countries.

[pineapple stu]

I think you have gotten me wrong Stu.
It's you who've gotten me entirely wrong. I'm arguing against kicking them out, and using the book as one of my reasons to keep them. I agree with your post entirely.

[holidaysong]

The same could be said of a Lichtensteinen supporter who would be less passionate if his team were playing smaller countries.

Yeah true, you have a point there but how long could any supporter be expected to remain passionate if they are forced to play the same teams over and over again with no hope of progress? Beating San Marino, Andorra and the Faroe Islands isn't going to do much for a Liechtenstein supporter who has seen their team get results against infinitely better teams. I just don't think the whole promotion and relegation think can work in international football as it does in club football. I think progress is much more achieveable in club football and at least in club football you have cups where you can get that glamour tie.


It's you who've gotten me entirely wrong. I'm arguing against kicking them out, and using the book as one of my reasons to keep them. I agree with your post entirely.

Now I am confused. Why did you feel the need to illustrate their progress if I was arguing the same point as you.
Anyway we are both agreed. :)

[pineapple stu]

Why did you feel the need to illustrate their progress if I was arguing the same point as you?
Actually - it was I who did the first mis-reading - I mis-read your original post to say that someone who had read the book would want a pre-qualifying.

All sorted and all un-confused!

[Student Mullet]

Yeah true, you have a point there but how long could any supporter be expected to remain passionate if they are forced to play the same teams over and over again with no hope of progress? Beating San Marino, Andorra and the Faroe Islands isn't going to do much for a Liechtenstein supporter who has seen their team get results against infinitely better teams. I just don't think the whole promotion and relegation think can work in international football as it does in club football. I think progress is much more achieveable in club football and at least in club football you have cups where you can get that glamour tie. If they beat these teams they'd get to play better teams. If they don't then they'll have no cause for complaint, they weren't good enough.

[holidaysong]

I don't think the promotion and relegation would work. In my opinion you would have a frustrating scenario where teams just yo yo between the two tiers. You do make a good point about having no cause for complaint if they don't beat those teams though.

[Student Mullet]

I don't think the promotion and relegation would work. In my opinion you would have a frustrating scenario where teams just yo yo between the two tiers. You do make a good point about having no cause for complaint if they don't beat those teams though.My thinking would be that every team which finishes bottom of their qualifying group should have to win a playoff to avoid relegation to the minnows group with the winner of the minnows exempted from the playoff as their prize.

It would also give the teams near the bottom of the groups something to play to avoid.

[holidaysong]

That would ok I guess. I was working under the assumption that the team with the worst record is replaced directly with the 'minnow group' winner. As it doesn't exist we don't know what it would be like. I think I would still remain against it with the other reasons I mentioned out weighing teams at the bottoms of their groups having something to play for.

[Student Mullet]

That would ok I guess. I was working under the assumption that the team with the worst record is replaced directly with the 'minnow group' winner. As it doesn't exist we don't know what it would be like. I think I would still remain against it with the other reasons I mentioned out weighing teams at the bottoms of their groups having something to play for.I actually agree with you and I'm currently opposed to the system I proposed above but that will change if Gribraltar or the Vatican enter a team.

Gribaltar is not a country, no matter what way you look at it. The Vatican does not have any young citizins (or indeed any football pitches) and would have to import a team of players.

This all started up when the Faeroe's entered. They had been in the islands cup before hand and regularly won it so I think they were entitled to try the step up to a new level. The system now is treathening to get out of control and some diciplin needs to be put on it.

[Dassa]

The only way to encourage footballers to come through the ranks is to allow their country no-matter what size the chance to mix it with the big countries. Some of the worlds best players could be from these smaller countries. You just have to look at george Best

[pineapple stu]

Exactly.

The thread, though, seems to be heading off on the related tangent of what exactly is a country?

[trevy]

No-one is saying they shouldn't be allowed compete but why not make them pre qualify by playing off against each other?Whats the point in games like Germany 13 San Marino 0?Countries with tiny populations are never going to improve much anyway due to lack of players.It is something that UEFA and FIFA need to look at seriously before future qualifying tournaments.

[pineapple stu]

Countries with tiny populations are never going to improve much anyway due to lack of players.
Really?

Andorra picked up 5 points in their last campaign. Liechtenstein got 8. They were holding Sweden 1-1 in Sweden for a long time; the game was only decided in the last minute really. The 13-0 was a fluke result, as evidenced by the fact that it is a record. San Marino are utter rubbish, but if Liechtenstein and Andorra can improve, there's no reason San Marino can't. They'd need the money from the big games to do it though.

[cavan_fan]

Thought it might be worth reviving this as UEFA have now confirmed Montenegro's membership and given provisional membership to Gibraltar.

The danger here is of precedent setting; if Gibraltar have a team why not Majorca, Ibiza, Crete, Isle of Man etc etc etc. And as it is now a guarantee of getting games against big teams why wouldnt they apply. (By the way I have no issue with Montenegro's membership but as per previous discussions would want them to start in a Division 2 and get promoted.)

[OwlsFan]

The only way to encourage footballers to come through the ranks is to allow their country no-matter what size the chance to mix it with the big countries. Some of the worlds best players could be from these smaller countries. You just have to look at george Best

George Best didn't come through the ranks via international football. If a player is good enough he'll get a club contract no matter what country he's from.

I agree there should be pre-qualification for countries outside of a certain ranking.