What can be done to improve standards of EL Refs

[football fan]

In the last couple of weeks we have seen some poor decisions by refs and assisstant refs in the league.

People are always posting about poor decisions and poor match officials.

But while people always complain, nobody seems to have anything positive to offer as regards a solution to the problem.

Look forward to hearing your replies and please try and be positive and offer solutions not rants!!:ball:

[Peadar]

There seems to be no accountability.
They make decisions which defy belief and not an eyelid is batted in the corridors of power.

[BohsPartisan]

Probably because those in the corridors of power don't bother watching the games.

[pete]

Reading the paper today and it said Alan Kelly was suspended for 1 month for not allowing the Bohs goal at Bray.

[LeixlipRed]

Maybe he'll use that time to get a decent haircut

[Red&White]

One word: "Specsavers."

As far as I know they have free check-ups these days as well.*






*Or maybe that's just the NHS...:rolleyes:

[passerrby]

There seems to be no accountability.
They make decisions which defy belief and not an eyelid is batted in the corridors of power.


what exactly do you propose

[dcfcsteve]

The problem with banning is that the others aren't much better.

When the standard is so poor across the board then there is clearly a training issue. Irish football is simply not churning out refs of a sufficient standard. Addressing this would require a root and branch review of how refs are identified, trained, encouraged and developed.

In the meantime, do what a few other leagues have done and bring in overseas refs to show some feckin example. Would give the indigenous ones an almighty kick up the arse.

[The Ref]

well didnt the referee in the ben tatcher incident in england get a ban??a few bans wouldnt go amiss:D

You'd have no refs left.

Didn't see the incident on Friday but from what I hear the referee was let down by his assistant, one of the problems is that the everyday fan thinks they know the rules but they don't.

The EL has in effect gone professional, asking referees, who lets face it have careers outside the game (some are running from their jobs to get to games), keep up with highly talented and extremely fit individuals is, at best unfair.

If a core group of referees and their assistant where paid a salary by the FAI to become professional (with the same level of training as a professional club)with a guarntee of a position of instructing referees in the intermediate, junior, ladies and schoolboys/girls leagues after they retire, would go a small way to improving the standard.

Referees make mistakes, that is the way it has alway been, however with the increase of television cameras at matches, their mistakes are being highlighted more frequently.

Also, I believe a bit of honesty would'nt go amiss, a game should be watched by an assessor, if the media complain that the ref made a blattant error, then he should either:
a) if the referee was right, say so and explain the decision or;
b) if the referee was wrong, the referee should put his hand up and admit it.

This way there would be no cloak and dagger stuff, and the game would become more transparent, fans and the media would become educated in the laws of the game. Over time there would be more of an understanding between referees, player and fans.

I have set up a thread for Advice on the Laws of the Game in the Junior league section of this site http://www.foot.ie/showthread.php?t=38755 and have set up a fun quiz also in that section, if anyone has queries (I will answer them as best I can) or wants to take part in the quiz, they are more than welcome.

[OneRedArmy]

Fitness is one area that is relatively easy to improve.

As players have become fitter with professional football becoming the norm among the top teams, the officials haven't kept up (quite literally) and as a result are regularly making decisions a long way off the play. This applies both to referees but particularly assistants who regularly seem to be making offside calls from 20-30 yards behind the line.

Improving fitness won't solve all the problems but it would at least help reduce the number of ridiculous offsides and penalty incidents which aren't seen by the officials.

[passerrby]

i heard the refs in longford cup game got over €1500 for their evenings work, at least dick turbin wore a mask.

[Réiteoir]

There is a plan in place that we will be shown later this month in a presentation entitled "The Future of Refereeing in Ireland" - should be interesting.

Could be we go down the route of Professional Referees (like the Select Group in England) and Refereeing Academies tied to the individual Provinces/Counties

[BohsFans]

Reading the paper today and it said Alan Kelly was suspended for 1 month for not allowing the Bohs goal at Bray.

which paper?

does it quote anybody?

[Longfordian]

i heard the refs in longford cup game got over €1500 for their evenings work, at least dick turbin wore a mask.

Correct that tool Buttimer and his gang of clowns were on a nice little earner for that one. Overnight stay, working day's wages, meals, mileage. Nice work if you can get it.

Alan Kelly apparently "volunteered" to stand down for a month. I'd imagine Buttimer will get the same, along with the assistant I'd assume.

[harpskid]

There seems to be no accountability.
They make decisions which defy belief and not an eyelid is batted in the corridors of power.

There is though - refs are assessed at every game they officiate at. Kelly got a month's ban for that 'goal' and there have been other refs who have got similar bans for ****-ups in the past

[Block G Raptor]

one way to inprove the standard is to sack the lot of them and employ a couple of dozen blind people to officiate. they'd be guaranteed to see more than most refs in the league

[BohDiddley]

simple.

Independent assessor at all EL games who doesnt report to Alan Kelly Sr.


I agree. At this point, much as they are individually to blame, someone in authority has to take responsibility for the fiascos we've seen.

[Mr A]

I think it's obvious that Bohs should fund the setting up up of a professional referee system.

Mind you with the money they receive as it is we should expect a whole lot better!

[NY Hoop]

Said it before but ex players should be encouraged. They would have the respect of the players therefore there would be less dissent.

Also the current muppets refuse to chat to the players. By saying nothing and brandishing crads everywhere encourages disciplinary problems. No communication leads to mistrust.

Also as mentioned before independent assessors. Only in this league would you have a complete plank like kelly being assessed by his father.:rolleyes:

How do they get FIFA Badges is beyond me. Why dont they play the advantage rule?

The best refs are the ones you dont notice but this is part of the problem. Kelly being the prime example in that you cant but notice him. Like Frisk he wants to be the centre of attention. Remember watching a setanta game in cark and, despite the fact that he was the fourth official, he was on tv more than the players!

KOH

[Réiteoir]

Said it before but ex players should be encouraged. They would have the respect of the players therefore there would be less dissent.

Also the current muppets refuse to chat to the players. By saying nothing and brandishing crads everywhere encourages disciplinary problems. No communication leads to mistrust.

Also as mentioned before independent assessors. Only in this league would you have a complete plank like kelly being assessed by his father.:rolleyes:

How do they get FIFA Badges is beyond me. Why dont they play the advantage rule?

The best refs are the ones you dont notice but this is part of the problem. Kelly being the prime example in that you cant but notice him. Like Frisk he wants to be the centre of attention. Remember watching a setanta game in cark and, despite the fact that he was the fourth official, he was on tv more than the players!

KOH

The ex-players thing has been tried in England - and it was a spectacular failure.

Steve Baines who had a 15 year career in the Football League was chosen as the player who would try this out - he was fast-tracked through the lower Leagues and found himself as a Football League referee in little over 5 years.

He lasted 2 seasons on the Football League before he was removed due to poor marks.

[NY Hoop]

The ex-players thing has been tried in England - and it was a spectacular failure.

Steve Baines who had a 15 year career in the Football League was chosen as the player who would try this out - he was fast-tracked through the lower Leagues and found himself as a Football League referee in little over 5 years.

He lasted 2 seasons on the Football League before he was removed due to poor marks.

You've given one example. Just because it failed in a foreign league does it mean we have to say why bother?

KOH

[harpskid]

The ex-players becoming refs thing was tried in the local Leagues in Donegal and has also been fairly poor. The refs seem to have maintained the mentality of the player.

Probably has something to do with lack of proper training, which is a major problem imo

[Réiteoir]

That's the best known example - not the be all and end all...

For the life of me I cannot think of one single FIFA or top level referee anywhere in Europe who was an ex-player previously.

Not one

And you ask any players nowadays if they would consider taking up refereeing - 99.5% would say no straight off - becuase they know the amount hassle and abuse they would get.

[NY Hoop]

That's the best known example - not the be all and end all...

For the life of me I cannot think of one single FIFA or top level referee anywhere in Europe who was an ex-player previously.

Not one

And you ask any players nowadays if they would consider taking up refereeing - 99.5% would say no straight off - becuase they know the amount hassle and abuse they would get.

Agree but IMO it should be looked at. But only with proper training and make sure they are well compensated. It would only take one success and the recruitment would be made easier. Honestly can it get any worse?

KOH

[monzo]

There is though - refs are assessed at every game they officiate at. Kelly got a month's ban for that 'goal' and there have been other refs who have got similar bans for ****-ups in the past

Can they be punished for shocking performances?

Dave McKeon last year most definitely should have been.

I'm still angry to this day! :mad: :D

[tonydaly]

hot on the heels of last weeks "goal" in dalymount,we witnessed another shocking display of refereeing in united park against cork city.a penalty which i was told by somone with no interest in either team looked even more cast iron on tg4 than at the game.a couple of times he waited about ten seconds after a tackle to hear the crowds reaction before giving a free kick.yellow cards to one team for a tackle and not even a free when the same is done by the other team.

in fairness this seems an on going thin and its shocking that when everyone wants the league to improve the standards of refereeing are the worse anywhere.and before any cork fans think im being biased he was as bad to you as he was to us

I know what you are saying.It was a penalty but the ref got no help whatsoever from the muppet of a linesman who was about twenty yards away and dead in line with it. He had to have seen it. We had Corporal Clot Foley last Monday against Pats in Cork and he was truly awful. The ref last night also missed several hand balls for both teams. I was told that this ref was what the future of refereeing in Ireland was going to be. God help us.:o

[pete]

I think excellent decision by the referee in United Park. Defender dived in but O'Brien tried to trail his leg unsuccessfully and no contact made.

The linesman on the side opposite the camera was shocking. His positioning was terrible and caught behind the play far too often. He seemed to be in line with the most advanced forward as opposed to the 2nd last defender many times. :confused:

[tonydaly]

I believe you can't have a professional league without professional referees. A lot of the present Eircom League players have come up through the ranks,Under age,Minor,U21 etc until some of them make it to Eircom League standard. If the same were done for referees it would make a huge difference. Apprentice Referees like apprentice professional players. It would surely work. If need be import Referee Coaches/Teachers etc. Set up a Professional Referees School where students could take up refereeing as a career. It would have to be independant of any Referee Society or Union.
In the premiership in England you can't be a manager without reaching the Fifa "A" licence standard. Have something similar for Referees. "A" licence "B" licence etc. "A" standard licence to referee in the Premier Div and so on. Just a few ideas.

[Fair_play_boy]

one way to inprove the standard is to sack the lot of them and employ a couple of dozen blind people to officiate. they'd be guaranteed to see more than most refs in the league :D :D :eek:

[TommyT]

Why not set the age of retirement a couple of years highr than in England and use their oldies ?

[iceman]

Defender dived in but O'Brien tried to trail his leg unsuccessfully and no contact made.

Pete , I think if you look at the TG4 footage you will come to a different conclusion , the defender went in with both feet , missed Fabio with his left and hacked him down with his right , its as clear as anything. Another refereeing c*ck-up.

[bigmac]

I think excellent decision by the referee in United Park. Defender dived in but O'Brien tried to trail his leg unsuccessfully and no contact made.


:eek: Did you see any of the footage on TG4 at all? I thought it was the most cast-iron penalty I've seen turned down in a long time. Every time I saw it afterwards I was only more and more convinced. There was plenty of contact - wasn't even a questionable brush - he really caught O'Brien's leg and was nowhere near the ball.


EDIT: Can the yellow card for diving be rescinded afterwards? It's a definite situation where the referee should come out and say he's looked at the incident on TV and either defend his decision or hold his hand up and recommend rescinding the card in his report.

[BohsFans]

Longford boss blasts ref


September 5, 2006

Longford Town manager Alan Mathews has hit out at the performance of referee Dave McKeon during Sunday’s eircom League Premier Division defeat at the hands of Sligo Rovers.

The midlanders fell to a 2-0 loss at home to the Bit O’Red, both goals coming from long-range strikes by in-form Rovers star Harpal Singh.

But Mathews feels his side were harshly treated by refereeing decisions.

He told the Irish Sun: “The goals, while they were two great strikes, were assisted by dubious refereeing decisions.

“It’s not the first time we’ve found him wanting down here and that’s what’s most disappointing. I just hope he’s made accountable.”

------------------------------------------------------

nice fine for Matthews on its way

[micls]

EDIT: Can the yellow card for diving be rescinded afterwards? It's a definite situation where the referee should come out and say he's looked at the incident on TV and either defend his decision or hold his hand up and recommend rescinding the card in his report.

At the time i thought the card was for mouthing off and laying his hands on the ref rather than diving....could be wrong though

[Peadar]

I thought it was the most cast-iron penalty I've seen turned down in a long time.

There's only one camera angle where you can actually see the incident clearly and it shows the dive.
It's about time drogs were denied after all the dodgy decisions they got against Bohs this year.

O'Brien was booked for mouthing off, surely???

Speaking of which, I've seen a few games in the Premiership this season and the refs are clamping down bigtime on players who mouth off.
Glad to see it.

[bigmac]

There's only one camera angle where you can actually see the incident clearly and it shows the dive.
It's about time drogs were denied after all the dodgy decisions they got against Bohs this year.


:eek: We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Peadar. Any other non-Drogs or Cork see the match out there?
Wasn't sure what the booking was for but if it's for mouthing off then no problem with it.

[Peadar]

:eek: We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Peadar.

I stood up for Stokes in the Cup against Longball, when he gave the penalty and sent off Mick. He made a call and that's what you want from a ref. Rico very famously lost the plot after that game.

What I would say about Stokes though, is that he does tend to stop the game quite a bit but for the most part, he's a good ref.

[fitzknows]

Anyone know how much a league of Ireland ref gets paid per game?

[harpskid]

Anyone know how much a league of Ireland ref gets paid per game?

Depends on their travel etc.

[OneRedArmy]

Anyone know how much a league of Ireland ref gets paid per game?Depends on the size of Shels tax bill at the time*.






*this was intended as a joke and in no way indicates that Shelbourne are engaged in paying off referees or officials or in any way engaged in criminal activity, other than those that club officials have already been convicted for.:D

[DmanDmythDledge]

There's only one camera angle where you can actually see the incident clearly and it shows the dive.:D:D:D


O'Brien was booked for mouthing off, surely???

He put his hands on the ref.

[garykelly]

why not adopt the same ideal as the international player development scheme - send em all off to the UK when they're 15 and hope they come back as decent players or refs in this case.

[Raheny Red]

someone please tell me putting your hands on a gef is a red.it is in gaelic you know:confused:

Where can I get my hands on one of these so called gefs?? :confused:

:p

[Peadar]

so does laying your hands on a ref mean a red

Why don't you ask Alan Kelly (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=121618#post121618)! :D