Dundalk boss questions league reshuffle [Archive]

A face

23/08/2006, 10:47 PM

Dundalk boss questions league reshuffle

Dundalk manager John Gill has called into question the imminent reshuffle of the domestic league under the FAI, claiming that the Association has already decided upon the make-up of next season’s new-look Premiership. Former Dublin City and Athlone Town chief Gill has guided Dundalk to an exceptional run of form in recent weeks.

Nine games unbeaten have taken them to the cusp of the title race – but Gill fears that, regardless of their achievements this time around, the Lilywhites will not be invited into the top flight next year.

Read more at www.eleven-a-side.com (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/first/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=24090)

nshoop

23/08/2006, 11:34 PM

He's right and a team of dundalk's history and fan base should be in the premier.To be honest this reshuffle is going to be a disaster and wont help the league at all

DmanDmythDledge

23/08/2006, 11:38 PM

He's right and a team of dundalk's history and fan base should be in the premier.To be honest this reshuffle is going to be a disaster and wont help the league at all
So if you used to be a good team you feel that that is good enough reason to be in the Premier:confused: :rolleyes:

nshoop

23/08/2006, 11:48 PM

So if you used to be a good team you feel that that is good enough reason to be in the Premier:confused: :rolleyes:

I'm saying that if dundalk finish first or second they should be promoted and also that they are a huge club that bring a lot to the league as apposed to nobodies with no support or history who should be in the first division supplying players to the premier

DmanDmythDledge

23/08/2006, 11:52 PM

I'm saying that if dundalk finish first or second they should be promoted
But is it also your opinion that if you used to be good that you should be in the Premier? That's the question I asked. It's a simple yes or no.

joema

24/08/2006, 12:04 AM

I'm saying that if dundalk finish first or second they should be promoted and also that they are a huge club that bring a lot to the league as apposed to nobodies with no support or history who should be in the first division supplying players to the premier

Thats a load of sh!t. You should be in the premier on merit - simple as that. Id prefer to get promoted by winning games not relying on history.

The fact that they were a huge club means fcuk all in the present day - they should only be promoted if they are good enough to get there/ possibly stay there

I pressume the part highlighted in bold refers to teams such as Kilkenny and Monaghan? Yes??

As a Kilkenny fan I find that highly insulting - we may not have a great history or a decent fan base but we are certainly not content with just supplying players to the Premier. Believe it or not we have ambitions and hope, one day to play in the premier again - if we do get there again Im sure it will be because of what we have done on the pitch not because we used to be a big club :rolleyes:

Btw if Rovers slip up and dont finish in at least the top 3 then I dont think they deserve to go up - but sure ye have a great history, dont ye?? Im sure that will win ye points in the premier :rolleyes:

Who are the "nobodies"?? I wonder. It wouldnt be that Dublin team that dont even have a stadium of their own would it???

EDIT: Just realised that the nobodies you are refering to are UCD. I still completley disagree with your views though

nshoop

24/08/2006, 12:13 AM

But is it also your opinion that if you used to be good that you should be in the Premier? That's the question I asked. It's a simple yes or no.

No,but in a toss up between two teams say ucd and dundalk,dundalk finish second in the first division getting good crowds and ucd finish bottom half of premier with usual crowds and appeal,I think dundalk's appeal and history should carry them through.I think that's fair.

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 12:18 AM

No,but in a toss up between two teams say ucd and dundalk,dundalk finish second in the first division getting good crowds and ucd finish bottom half of premier with usual crowds and appeal,I think dundalk's appeal and history should carry them through.I think that's fair.
UCD have nothing with the thread- keep it on topic. I know you find it difficult but it's actually not that difficult.

Also you have contradicted yourself by saying no at the start and then saying it should be a deciding factor.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 12:24 AM

UCD have nothing with the thread- keep it on topic. I know you find it difficult but it's actually not that difficult.

Also you have contradicted yourself by saying no at the start and then saying it should be a deciding factor.

You asked me did I think that if a team used to be good should that get them into the premier full-stop and I said no and then explained to you where I think it's important and should be a factor,understand?This is basic stuff especially for a college boy.I think the history of a club is important but not enough to earn promotion.

Comic Book Guy

24/08/2006, 12:26 AM

Absolutely not, UCD are in the Premier on merit, Dundalk, Rovers, Cobh Ramblers etc are in the first because they have not been able to get into, or stay in the Premier. Tradition should count for nothing. It is now and the future that matter.

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 12:29 AM

You asked me did I think that if a team used to be good should that get them into the premier full-stop and I said no and then explained to you where I think it's important and should be a factor,understand?This is basic stuff especially for a college boy.
Where you explained where you think it's important is the same thing that you answered no to and I don't go to college btw.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 12:40 AM

Where you explained where you think it's important is the same thing that you answered no to and I don't go to college btw.

Ah come on look,for the last time,if it's a 50/50 toss up between a team that has come first in the first division with a big following and illustrious history and a smaller team with f*ck all support and appeal that has finished in the bottom half of the premier,the support and history of the bigger club should prevail as it would be beneficial to the league to have them in the top division.Now what is so hard to understand about that?We're trying to promote our league here and dundalk in the premier with 2-3000 fans weekly singing about all their league and cup trophies instead of a smaller team with a few hundred supporters is common sense.

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 12:42 AM

Ah come on look,for the last time,if it's a 50/50 toss up between a team that has come first in the first division with a big following and illustrious history and a smaller team with f*ck all support and appeal that has finished in the bottom half of the premier,the support and history of the bigger club should prevail as it would be beneficial to the league to have them in the top division.Now what is so hard to understand about that?We're trying to promote our league here and dundalk in the premier with 2-3000 fans weekly singing about all their league and cup trophies instead of a smaller team with a few hundred supporters is common sense.
I wasn't arguing that point- I never mentioned anything to do with UCD. I was pointing out that you kept contradicting yourself.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 12:48 AM

I never mentioned ucd either,I was careful and I never contradicted myself once.I explained my opinion clearly and I have nothing against ucd or any small club for the record

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 12:51 AM

I never mentioned ucd either
http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=521172&postcount=7. You also went on about UCD in every post you've made in this thread.

I have nothing against ucd or any small club for the record
Strange way of showing it.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 1:01 AM

http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=521172&postcount=7. You also went on about UCD in every post you've made in this thread.

Strange way of showing it.

I only mentioned ucd in one post,the one you linked and I was trying to inject a bit of humour into this depressing conversation with the small clubs comment.Apologies for taking so long to reply as your link logged me off and wouldn't let me log on again which happens with links to threads on this forum,it's very annoying.

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 1:06 AM

I only mentioned ucd in one post,the one you linked and I was trying to inject a bit of humour into this depressing conversation with the small clubs comment.Apologies for taking so long to reply as your link logged me off and wouldn't let me log on again which happens with links to threads on this forum,it's very annoying.
It's obvious you were talking about UCD.

I think I've made you look stupid enough times for my liking so I'll stop now.

Back on topic Dundalk would have every right to feel aggrieved if they didn't get into the Premier if they win the First Division or come second and win the playoff.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 1:12 AM

I think I've made you look stupid enough times for my liking so I'll stop now.

See,I knew you had a sense of humour.Next time give me a proper argument instead of throwing stupid technicalities into the conversation

John83

24/08/2006, 1:12 AM

Ronan, please don't turn into another Pineapple Stu. We get enough crap about being whiney sods as is. ;)

Anyway, I'm pleased to see the league restructuring being questioned, but Gill's a bit late. His club didn't vote against the proposal either, so he has nothing to stand on here.

hoopy

24/08/2006, 6:21 AM

Good oul John Gill, if he was a chocolate he'd eat himself. Hopefully the same thing will now happen Dundalk as happened Limerick, ie going on a good run and then spouting on about how they should be in the prem div next season if they win the league, then implosion. The team that wins the league deserves to go up but we all knew at the start of the season that there was different criteria for this campaign so it's a bit rich moaning now

Poor Student

24/08/2006, 9:30 AM

With a new owner its also got its financial act together and living within its means in that its income is greater than its expenditure and all tax affairs settled to date.

As far as I can see, whether a club runs itself within its means or not and whether it turns out a profit are not included in the critera and have no bearing on things.

wws

24/08/2006, 9:35 AM

John83

24/08/2006, 10:47 AM

its absolutely crucial that The Laney is stopped dead in his tracks trying to push this farce through. On merit this season or not at all. No other wishey washey criteria shoule be countenanced by any real football people
The clubs have already voted on it. No one opposed it. I happen to have some theories as to why some of the turkeys voted for Christmas, but it's too late - this is going through, whether you, me, or Gill likes it or not.

wws

24/08/2006, 10:56 AM

and what exactly is goin through?
its mostly designed to get shamrock out of their little pickle
and throw a bone to the tax dodgers

John83

24/08/2006, 11:38 AM

and what exactly is goin through?
its mostly designed to get shamrock out of their little pickle
and throw a bone to the tax dodgers
Rather a lot. The purpose of the merger and restructuring is irrelevant. This has already been debated to death on this site.
The main thread on it is here (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=36098).

Dave drummerboy

24/08/2006, 11:52 AM

I think some of you are taking this up wrong . Gill was saying that even if we win the league and do well in the cup , that rovers will get promoted before us . If we win this first division should we not have the right to play in the top league , we have got finances in the right place now and have a bit og financial backing , we have the crowds how many prem teams get 1500 at a game and that was against galway . We can get up to 2000 to 3000 at a game if we were playing in the top league against drogs bohs rovers derry cork easily and people know that . The fact in the matter is that it doesnt matter how bad rovers do or ho well we do or cobh or galway the fai have picked the teams they want in it a dublin league is what they always wanted bar cork derry and drogs, and they will do there best to stop us spoiling there fun .

monutdfc

24/08/2006, 11:56 AM

With a new owner its also got its financial act together and living within its means in that its income is greater than its expenditure
In the future perhaps, but not this season according to your new owner:
" Our main cost is the first team and it is produced at a loss. Every week our income which is generated by gate receipts, pitch rental, bars, sponsorship, advertising signs, lotto, fundraising, contributions from the Trust, Dublin Branch, Supporters Club and Travel Club etc fall far short of what it takes to meet our expenditure. Even before this season is finished I will have to put approximately 130,000 to meet the shortfall in expenses."
http://dundalkfc.com/News/060711_EGM.html

Dave drummerboy

24/08/2006, 12:02 PM

John83

24/08/2006, 12:14 PM

Except you may well increase expenditure when you enter the top flight. Most teams do. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, the wage cap will do in cases like this.

Conor H

24/08/2006, 12:18 PM

Yeah thats a fair point but if we can get in to prem and have 2to 3 thousand coming in the gates each game that will cover that loss . And when you have your home support so high and a big enough away support like drogs bohs rover pats shels derry . compared to the ten galway fans last week and the 10 mons fans turn up or athlone . Dundalk rovers and harps are the only teams that have a good travel away support in this league .

What horse****.Yee had 5 fans in Terryland a couple of months back.Maybe we only had 10 fans because yee play on a ludricous night.We bring more than Harps would to alot of games and certainly more than yee for many aswell.

Rovers are the only team in the league with a consistent large away support.

Dave drummerboy

24/08/2006, 12:43 PM

Right conor that was a cheap dig on my part but come on we have more then five travel bus goes to every game and has at elast twenty regulars . Yeah thurs night is not the best for travelling fans from galwway and that but seen that the prem is a dublin league the only fans that will complain will be cork .

Conor H

24/08/2006, 12:51 PM

Fair enough Dave.
Dundalk is the only ground that GUST don't run a bus too.
On average we have about 25-40 at most away games with exceptions like Athlone,Limerick and Rovers.

If Dundalk played on a Saturday we would run a bus.However i would imagine the extra revenue generated from the 30 of us wouldn't come close to what the bar gets on a Saturday night.That's the only reason i can see for yee playing on a thursday!

Dave drummerboy

24/08/2006, 1:05 PM

It is the reason that we play on a thurs night , theres always some partys on and the money that can be made from them are unreal .

oriel

24/08/2006, 1:20 PM

I`ve been of the opinion for a long long time that no one knows for sure what 12 teams will make up next years super fai premier lge, maybe the top 7 in the premier will make it, fine, but the next 5 ? who knows for certain that rovs will get an invite (proably but for sure ??) as for galway, again a v good case as they appear to have their house in order, but a certainty ??????

these would be my certs

shels
cork
derry
drogs
bohs
pats
longs

then having a good chance would be

rovs
ucd

50/50

dlk
galway
sligo

slim chance

harps/bray/wat`d

no chance

mons
cobh
lims
kildare
kilkenny
athlone

thats about it

DmanDmythDledge

24/08/2006, 1:31 PM

Student Mullet

24/08/2006, 1:45 PM

Waterford,Sligo and Rovers have their places assured IMHO. The last two places will be between UCD, Bray, Dundalk and Galway.I'd roughly agree with Limerick and Waterford also possibilities.

Aberdonian Stu

24/08/2006, 1:52 PM

NY Hoop

24/08/2006, 1:59 PM

Yeah thats a fair point but if we can get in to prem and have 2to 3 thousand coming in the gates each game that will cover that loss . And when you have your home support so high and a big enough away support like drogs bohs rover pats shels derry . compared to the ten galway fans last week and the 10 mons fans turn up or athlone . Dundalk rovers and harps are the only teams that have a good travel away support in this league .

You would bigger crowds home and away fans if you stopped this thursday night nonsense.

Agree that whoever wins the first should get promoted but you can see why they want us in the new premier. Conor H is spot on.

KOH

Jerry The Saint

24/08/2006, 2:45 PM

the fai have picked the teams they want in it a dublin league is what they always wanted bar cork derry and drogs, and they will do there best to stop us spoiling there fun .

seen that the prem is a dublin league the only fans that will complain will be cork .

That's crazy talk! One of the main reasons the FAI went with this criteria nonsense was to get rid of Dublin City (MISSION ACCOMPLISHED) and UCD. The FAI/Government have gone on record that they want to reduce the number of grounds in Dublin and Bray's case for staying up is not helped by their proximity to Dublin. I believe it is also the FAI's strong preference not to replace CHF with another Dublin club.

stann

24/08/2006, 4:05 PM

That's crazy talk! One of the main reasons the FAI went with this criteria nonsense was to get rid of Dublin City (MISSION ACCOMPLISHED) and UCD. The FAI/Government have gone on record that they want to reduce the number of grounds in Dublin and Bray's case for staying up is not helped by their proximity to Dublin. I believe it is also the FAI's strong preference not to replace CHF with another Dublin club.

Correct.
The other was to get Rovers back up if need be but they are doing it on their own in fairness.
The FAI quite evidently want 4 teams in Dublin; Bohs, Pats, Rovers and Shels.
After that, a look at the regional distribution of the other teams is interesting, and I think will point the way towards the make up of the SuperDuper Dozen.
Bray may suffer for being close to Dublin, and indeed a lot of us simple country folk lump them in with the Dublin sides, but I reckon ye Dubs don't, so their position just outside the pale, allied to their recent record, will see them safe IMO.
Kilkenny, Dundalk and Cobh won't be so lucky though, they will suffer from being so close to Waterford, Drogs and Cork.
Derry and Longford have their regions buttoned down.
Sligo I think have enough of a set-up, and are impressing enough in the Premier, to consider that they're fairly safe.
That would leave the last place a straight scrap between Galway and Harps, with Harps probably losing out due to the proximity to Sligo and Derry.

So that is the 12 based purely on geography. With all criteria taken into account, though, it'll probably become a race between Galway, Dundalk and UCD for the 12th spot.

John83

24/08/2006, 4:12 PM

Bray may suffer for being close to Dublin, and indeed a lot of us simple country folk lump them in with the Dublin sides, but I reckon ye Dubs don't
Public Transport to Bray: Dublin Bus, DART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit). Throw in pseudo-Dublin accents and having the films coming out on time in the cinema. Yeah, they're in Dublin. Drogheda too. :)

Louth4sam

24/08/2006, 4:19 PM

You would bigger crowds home and away fans if you stopped this thursday night nonsense.

We get the biggest home crowds on a thursday night. When we play any other time/day of the week the crowds are down. Thursday night is oriel night. Ask any Dundalk fan what day of the week they would like games to be played and i garantee that 90%+ would say thursday night.

nshoop

24/08/2006, 4:21 PM

We get the biggest home crowds on a thursday night. When we play any other time/day of the week the crowds are down. Thursday night is oriel night. Ask any Dundalk fan what day of the week they would like games to be played and i garantee that 90%+ would say thursday night.

Just ignore nyhoops,he's a WUM.Everybody knows thursday night is the best for dundalk

NY Hoop

24/08/2006, 4:41 PM

Just ignore nyhoops,he's a WUM.Everybody knows thursday night is the best for dundalk

LOL!!:D

Thursday night is rubbish. Football is a weekend game. EVERYBODY knows that.

KOH

holidaysong

24/08/2006, 6:57 PM

It's a complete joke that the FAI at first decided to have the performances of the last five seasons count (which would have included our 2002 FAI Cup win) and then when they realised that Kildare County weren't in the league until the season after that they reduced it to the preformances of the last four seasons. It just goes to show that they just picked a random year and they also forgot how long a club had been in the league for. They are in fact idiots.

I expect Dundalk FC to be in the Premier Division next season if we finish in the top two. Perhaps a nice cup run could also aid us.

hoopy

24/08/2006, 7:44 PM

I don't know John Gill but I think his gripe is based on if Dundalk win the first division or possibly come second. I get the impression from his complaint that he feels the team that wins the first, be it Rovers, Dundalk or whoever, should be in the Premier next year.

Put it this way if Dundalk suffer a drop in form and finish fifth I don't think Gill will think they were hard done by.

If that's the case then why didn't he open his mouth when Dundalk were struggling? Why wait until they're up there challenging? I think it's fairly obvious why. Anyway, if Dundalk were to drop away and don't end up in the new 'premier' div, he's guaranteed to come up with 'sure we wouldn't have got promoted anyway, Rovers were guaranteed' etc etc bull