View Full Version : Bohs to lose points, sell Ward
From today's Irish Times:
Bohemians likely to be docked points
Emmet Malone
The Irish under-21 international Stephen Ward looks set to sign for the Norwegian Tippeliga team Fredrikstad within days in a deal worth around €250,000 to Bohemians. The Dubliner, who turned 21 yesterday, has also been the subject of interest from the English Championship side Ipswich but is believed to favour a move to Norway and is expected to travel there over the next couple of days to discuss personal terms.
His current club, meanwhile, face the prospect of being docked three points and having to replay Friday's game against Shelbourne after Eircom League officials confirmed yesterday that Jason McGuinness should have missed the 2-1 win through suspension.
Gareth Farrelly is also said to be facing disciplinary action from the league for claiming afterwards that the club had checked with Merrion Square and received confirmation that the centre half was entitled to play. The club's honorary secretary, Gerry Conway, backed the manager's version of events yesterday, insisting he (Conway) had made one of two phone calls to the league's offices and been told the club had no suspensions outstanding.
But league officials yesterday denied any specific inquiry was made regarding the player. They also denied anybody suggested he was available for selection, and they maintained that even if Bohemians had received incorrect information over the phone it would not be a defence as they had been informed of the suspension in writing.
Confusion over the situation appears to have arisen because the automatic suspension McGuinness received for being sent off in the League Cup semi-final against Shelbourne effectively bumped back a ban he was already about to serve for an accumulation of bookings.
Shelbourne officials, who were aware of the situation before Friday's game kicked off, are expected to lodge an official protest over the coming days, and they are entitled to argue that under the rules the match should be replayed.
OneRedArmy
21/08/2006, 12:14 PM
Anyone know under what rule(s) $hel$ are demanding the game be replayed? (other than the usual 'Ollie Byrne's rules of natural justice'?).
I'd happily see the points awarded to $hel$.
...........offset of course against them forfeiting every point they earned whilst being in a non-tax compliant status.
Its apt that the "last" self-administered League season has descended into a farce and its ironic that the FAI, as the new "whiter than white" administrators, have their grubby pawprints over many of the SNAFUs this season.
Depressing stuff.
I'd like to see Derry win the League fair and square, but I already have visions of Ollie's slimey face plastered all over the papers regardless of whoever wins the title.
Poor Student
21/08/2006, 12:24 PM
If they're entitled to demand a replay, why have other clubs never gotten a replay in a similar situation?
centre mid
21/08/2006, 1:28 PM
hands over head again - why can the league not be administered properly
Red&White
21/08/2006, 1:30 PM
Games ARE NOT replayed in situations like this.
As someone else said, it's as if the FAI have got summer interns in who are even more clueless about the league then them.
NeilMcD
21/08/2006, 1:39 PM
Would be an awful shame if they had to play the game again as Bohs were very deserving of the win. Seems a bit of a sham from the FAI's point of view.
BrayUnknowns
21/08/2006, 1:43 PM
Even sadier to see Ward leaving Bohs, he is a real talent and will be hugely missed by Bohs, he is there best player by a long way. Good money for them thou.
green-blood
21/08/2006, 1:43 PM
they must be too busy organising a big ex players party for their triumphant forst game in croker.... ******
Réiteoir
21/08/2006, 2:33 PM
Looking at the Suspensions lists posted on the WalkTheChalk site - punishments for red cards seem to be decided the Wednesday some 1 1/2 weeks after the matches in which they occurred.
McGuinness was dismissed during the game on 7th August - which if we apply the above criteria will mean his case won't be dealt with until this Wednesday - the 23rd.
We need to see the Suspensions Notification from the meeting on the 9th August - if he doesn't appear on that one - then I think we're in the clear - and he'll be dealt with on Wednesday
OneRedArmy
21/08/2006, 2:46 PM
Looking at the Suspensions lists posted on the WalkTheChalk site - punishments for red cards seem to be decided the Wednesday some 1 1/2 weeks after the matches in which they occurred.
McGuinness was dismissed during the game on 7th August - which if we apply the above criteria will mean his case won't be dealt with until this Wednesday - the 23rd.
We need to see the Suspensions Notification from the meeting on the 9th August - if he doesn't appear on that one - then I think we're in the clear - and he'll be dealt with on Wednesday
I understand red card suspensions don't require a notification.
higgins
21/08/2006, 2:48 PM
Looking at the Suspensions lists posted on the WalkTheChalk site - punishments for red cards seem to be decided the Wednesday some 1 1/2 weeks after the matches in which they occurred.
McGuinness was dismissed during the game on 7th August - which if we apply the above criteria will mean his case won't be dealt with until this Wednesday - the 23rd.
We need to see the Suspensions Notification from the meeting on the 9th August - if he doesn't appear on that one - then I think we're in the clear - and he'll be dealt with on Wednesday
Yes where have you been ?
He was notified of the yellow card ban and then he received a red card. A red card carries an auto 1 game ban. This pushed his yellow card ban back to the Shels game.
Ronnie
21/08/2006, 3:03 PM
This has arisen before. A suspension kicks in 2 weeks from the meeting, if its for an accumalation of points - therefore the first relevant game following this date a player misses a game. So he can play in all games upto that date, for example the Tuesday night before the ban he can play, the Wednesday night he can't. If he gets sent off in the match before his ban, this automatic one game ban kicks in from the very next game and his points ban game comes after this. As Bohs lost the League Cup semi, he was automatically suspended for the next game for the red card and his yellow card ban is pushed back to the next game.
Réiteoir
21/08/2006, 3:21 PM
fair enough - the system the English FA uses (which is what I'm most used to) is different - a dismissal isn't ruled on until a week or so later.
football fan
21/08/2006, 3:23 PM
I have recently started attending LOI matches and generally go to the match considered the 'big one' on a Friday night as I have not yet started to follow any club.
I was at the Bohs V Shels league game and enjoyed it. Now we have this rubbish about suspended players on top of the Rovers and Derry situations and Dublin City folding. Its like a junior league. In fact most junior leagues are probably better organised and administered.
Its this type of off field rubbish that does not help to attract new supporters/sponsors to the league. From what I have seen so far, the product on the field is not too bad and in general the matches I have attended have been quite entertaining.
ifk101
21/08/2006, 3:38 PM
What do Bohs fans think of the Ward transfer?
monutdfc
21/08/2006, 3:39 PM
This has arisen before. A suspension kicks in 2 weeks from the meeting, if its for an accumalation of points - therefore the first relevant game following this date a player misses a game. So he can play in all games upto that date, for example the Tuesday night before the ban he can play, the Wednesday night he can't. If he gets sent off in the match before his ban, this automatic one game ban kicks in from the very next game and his points ban game comes after this. As Bohs lost the League Cup semi, he was automatically suspended for the next game for the red card and his yellow card ban is pushed back to the next game.
In a nutshell.
Bohs will lose 3 points, and maybe a fine.
No chance of the game being replayed, or a 3-0 win to Shels. This too has happened before: for example (notwithstanding a possibly successful appeal by Rovers), Dundalk won't get a replay of their game versus Shamrock Rovers; or Athlone didn't get a replay of their game versus us a couple of seasons ago when we won 1-0 but were deducted 3 points for Jimmy Fullam playing while suspended.
monutdfc
21/08/2006, 3:41 PM
ps sorry to see Ward leaving the league. A tremendous talent, played out of position on the left wing for Bohs without complaint (that I ever saw), which was a waste for Bohs.
Having the game replayed would be bizarre & would just be pandering to Ollie,
3 point penalty & decent fine for Bohs.
250k ok money for Ward & IMO he better on the wing. Good chance of him being resold if he does well however this crowd are 11th of 14 in the Noewegian league.
BohsPartisan
21/08/2006, 4:06 PM
What do Bohs fans think of the Ward transfer?
I'll be sorry to see him go, good to see a decent payout but I hope there will be some sell on clauses in it too.
I'll be delighted if he's not playing against us on friday as he's an excellent player. Can any of the bohs fans tell me if Caffery is cup tied or if there's a chance of Farrelly being suspended?
Back to Ward, at least its not a derisory fee like we've seen our best players leave for in the past, although moving to Norway is a bit of a strange one.
BrayUnknowns
21/08/2006, 4:13 PM
I'll be sorry to see him go, good to see a decent payout but I hope there will be some sell on clauses in it too.
If Bohs had any cop on they would get Devo involved in the move, honestly ! he'll get the best deal possible by a long way - fee, sell on clauses etc.... and for Ward himself. He will be probably on 3 or 4 times hew is on at Bohs if not more. Great move for Ward if it happens.
OneRedArmy
21/08/2006, 4:18 PM
I presume Ollie will be arguing that Bohs deliberately and knowingly played McGuinness when they knew he was suspended, as opposed to making a simple mistake.
There's still no provision in the rules for a replay regardless of intent (AFAIK), but there's no knowing what a judge will decide if it goes to Court.
According to the paper this morning (not thats its ever reliable) it was mentioned that Shels are within their rights to appeal for a replay. Now, if its in the rules that we can apply for one, where's the problem? I understand etc if its Ollie going off on a mad one however...
Perhaps, in the above mentioned circumstances the other clusb decided that rather than having a club lose 3 points, and then win them back by winning the replay, it was kind of pointless to the clubs involved? Or if the club involved would rather focus on more winnable games, than risking injuries and suspensions from playing a game they feel they may lose anyways, after already losing once (especially if they got something out of it, say a draw, and din;t fancy replacing that with a loss?)? Shels will feel they can win this, and if its in the rules, I would think will go for it.
I presume Ollie will be arguing that Bohs deliberately and knowingly played McGuinness when they knew he was suspended, as opposed to making a simple mistake.
There's still no provision in the rules for a replay regardless of intent (AFAIK), but there's no knowing what a judge will decide if it goes to Court.
To be fair, people in the stands knew he was out, it was all over the papers beforehand (well in the small previews of the game! ;)).
pats should offer to play their disputed fixtures again from the registration saga season.....
Red&White
21/08/2006, 4:47 PM
Even sadier to see Ward leaving Bohs, he is a real talent and will be hugely missed by Bohs, he is there best player by a long way. Good money for them thou.
Normally have my ear to the grond on the Eircom league but seem to have missed anything leading up to this...has the move been on the cards for long? How come he fancies his chances in Norway and not England, where you'd suspect he'd feel more at home? Bad loss for the league.
BohsFans
21/08/2006, 5:49 PM
Normally have my ear to the grond on the Eircom league but seem to have missed anything leading up to this...has the move been on the cards for long? How come he fancies his chances in Norway and not England, where you'd suspect he'd feel more at home? Bad loss for the league.
We only heard about it today as well! :eek:
BohsFans
21/08/2006, 5:51 PM
If Bohs had any cop on they would get Devo involved in the move, honestly ! he'll get the best deal possible by a long way - fee, sell on clauses etc.... and for Ward himself. He will be probably on 3 or 4 times hew is on at Bohs if not more. Great move for Ward if it happens.
That's a very bad wind-up.
Devo and Bohs working together? :eek: You've got to be joking!:rolleyes:
The Sheliban
21/08/2006, 6:00 PM
Ollie is perfectly entitled to demand a replay. Doesn't mean he'll get it. It all depends on what the rule states. Personally, I'd go for a three point deduction and a 2 million euro fine.
This whole fiasco begs the question - what on earth were Bohs playing at? And wasn't Farrelly supposed to be suspended? I was very surprised when he came on as sub.
DmanDmythDledge
21/08/2006, 6:03 PM
And wasn't Farrelly supposed to be suspended? I was very surprised when he came on as sub.
He was sent off as a manager so it would only be a touchline ban. He is contracted as a player as well so there is nothing stopping him being on the bench.
BohsFans
21/08/2006, 6:04 PM
Ollie is perfectly entitled to demand a replay. Doesn't mean he'll get it. It all depends on what the rule states. Personally, I'd go for a three point deduction and a 2 million euro fine.
This whole fiasco begs the question - what on earth were Bohs playing at? And wasn't Farrelly supposed to be suspended? I was very surprised when he came on as sub.
GF was not supposed to be suspended!
Where did you get that one from? Ollie? :rolleyes:
Roverstillidie
21/08/2006, 6:08 PM
Ollie is perfectly entitled to demand a replay. Doesn't mean he'll get it. It all depends on what the rule states. Personally, I'd go for a three point deduction and a 2 million euro fine.
This whole fiasco begs the question - what on earth were Bohs playing at? And wasn't Farrelly supposed to be suspended? I was very surprised when he came on as sub.
much has it fundamentally goes against all i hold dear, im with the gypos on this.
what possible right have you got to a replay? they lose 3 points and get fined. thats always been the way, in every league up and down the land. oily getting hot and bothered and you monkeys rowing in behind him cos thats what you do wont change that.
the bozos are guilty of profound stupidity here and if farrelly is found out to be lying there will be hell to pay, but the rules dont change for shels just because you want them to.
passerrby
21/08/2006, 6:16 PM
. ollie's claim for a replay is pure fantasy football.and is part of the reason people laugh at our league
the league officials has come if for some serious slagging in the past and rightly so but the clubs are just as incompetant.
The Sheliban
21/08/2006, 9:54 PM
I never said we had a right to a replay. I said Ollie was entitled to ask for one. He's entitled to ask for Bohs to be turfed out of Dalymount if he wants to. As I said, doesn't mean he's entitled to get what he wants.
As for Farrelly, how does that work if you're a player-manager? You get sent off as a manager, so you get a touchline ban? But as a player, you're allowed to sit on the bench? Surely then all managers have to do is register themselves at the start of a season as a player-manager, and then ignore any touchline bans by naming themselves as one of the subs?
Incidentally, I have no idea if he was suspended or not. I kind of got the impression that he was supposed to have been suspended for the Bray game, but came on, so I presumed that the Shels game should have been his suspended game.
Incidentally, we were beaten fair and square on Friday night, and I wouldn't like to see a replay or us gaining points because of Bohs amateurism.
Roverstillidie
21/08/2006, 11:39 PM
I never said we had a right to a replay. I said Ollie was entitled to ask for one. He's entitled to ask for Bohs to be turfed out of Dalymount if he wants to. As I said, doesn't mean he's entitled to get what he wants.
.
bullshít semantics. he is not entitled to waste the leagues time like this. and we all know he means business and has gotten away with so much he genuinely feels shels should be above the rules of the game.
kdjaC
21/08/2006, 11:42 PM
Afaik Caffrey hasnt played for us this season, was on bench once but dont think he played so should be ok for Bohs on Friday.
Afaik he wasnt fit for our cup game either.
kdjac
sonofstan
21/08/2006, 11:50 PM
This week on 'Saved by the EL' ....
'Zack' Arkins (world's oldest teenager) and glamorous and petite J.P. 'Kelly' Kapowski sit glumly in Max, the canteen in Bohside High School; coach Garth is distraught because 'Screech' McGuinness, who he has been hypnotised into thinking is a key player on his football soccer team has been given two weeks detention by Principal Belaney for being annoying and useless. Coach is convinced that without Screech, Bohside will lose their vital game with Shell Valley High; Zack and Kelly know this isn't true but, determined to cheer coach up, they hatch a plan ..... Zack, knowing Belaney is out of town, charms his secretary into letting him into his office 'to check something'; Kelly meanwhile, sweetly suggests that coach should phone the office to make sure Screech really is detained ....... The phone rings in the office; Zack answers in a deep Waterford accent...
BohsFans
22/08/2006, 12:09 AM
As for Farrelly, how does that work if you're a player-manager? You get sent off as a manager, so you get a touchline ban? But as a player, you're allowed to sit on the bench? Surely then all managers have to do is register themselves at the start of a season as a player-manager, and then ignore any touchline bans by naming themselves as one of the subs?
Incidentally, I have no idea if he was suspended or not. I kind of got the impression that he was supposed to have been suspended for the Bray game, but came on, so I presumed that the Shels game should have been his suspended game.
Any chance you could be a bit clearer there?
The facts are:
1. GF gets a 1 match playing ban for getting 5 disp. points.
2. GF is thus suspended for the trip to Bray.
3. He doesn't play or name himself in the squad in Bray, but sits where most managers do, in the dugout!
4. He gets sent-off.
5. When the disp. committee decide to meet, they will discuss his case and decide what to do.
Can't be any clearer than that!
Only if your sent off as a player do you sit out the next game automatically, AS PER FIFA DIRECTIVE!
BohsFans
22/08/2006, 12:11 AM
He's entitled to ask for Bohs to be turfed out of Dalymount if he wants to.
He actually isn't. :rolleyes:
BohsPartisan
22/08/2006, 8:52 AM
This week on 'Saved by the EL' ....
'Zack' Arkins (world's oldest teenager) and glamorous and petite J.P. 'Kelly' Kapowski sit glumly in Max, the canteen in Bohside High School; coach Garth is distraught because 'Screech' McGuinness, who he has been hypnotised into thinking is a key player on his football soccer team has been given two weeks detention by Principal Belaney for being annoying and useless. Coach is convinced that without Screech, Bohside will lose their vital game with Shell Valley High; Zack and Kelly know this isn't true but, determined to cheer coach up, they hatch a plan ..... Zack, knowing Belaney is out of town, charms his secretary into letting him into his office 'to check something'; Kelly meanwhile, sweetly suggests that coach should phone the office to make sure Screech really is detained ....... The phone rings in the office; Zack answers in a deep Waterford accent...
Brilliant! :D
ifk101
22/08/2006, 10:20 AM
Apparently, on the advice of Don Givens, Ward has rejected the move to Fredrikstad.
TonyD
22/08/2006, 12:16 PM
It was definitely reported in some of the papers that the league "rules" (Hah) contain a provision for a game to be replayed in these circumstances, which means, much as I detest Fat Ollie, there's nothing to stop him demanding that in this case. Does kind of beg the question though as to why no-one has demanded it in the past where this has occurred. As to the Farrelly touchline ban, had to laugh at Ollie bringing this issue up on the radio last night(Ana Livia, the absolute game) How many touchline bans have his coach and manager broken in the last season or two ?
Apparently, on the advice of Don Givens, Ward has rejected the move to Fredrikstad.
Is this speculation or any truth to?
I don't see how its any of his business to interfere in the running of Bohs.
:rolleyes:
Vitruvian Man
22/08/2006, 12:41 PM
Replay the game = more gate money for Bohs.
And with McGuinness off the pitch we'll probably beat them by more.
Lovely stuff.
I'd be happy to let Ward go too. He's a good player but the money seems right.
Rebal Boy
22/08/2006, 12:49 PM
Feck Shels. They never stop giving out. Leave Bohs have the points they won and deserve and just get on with things.
pineapple stu
22/08/2006, 12:59 PM
Wasn't there a game between Kilkenny and Dundalk or Limerick and Dundalk replayed a few years ago? I remember Dublin City kicking up a stink over it.
I also have a feeling that clubs taking the league to the High Court is forbidden by the league rules.
NY Hoop
22/08/2006, 1:06 PM
Wasn't there a game between Kilkenny and Dundalk or Limerick and Dundalk replayed a few years ago? I remember Dublin City kicking up a stink over it.
I also have a feeling that clubs taking the league to the High Court is forbidden by the league rules.
Yeah Pat Byrne forged the players signature on the registration form and Kilkenny replayed the game against someone. They ended up playing 37 league games:eek:
Hope ward goes cos the money is good. Almost certain €250,000 is a record for an Irish player going abroad? Jason Byrne would be playing in Stockholm now if it wasnt for the convicted criminal hampering his career.
KOH
monutdfc
22/08/2006, 1:50 PM
The one Dublin City kicked stink over was when Noel Hunt played on loan with Waterford United illegally (something about you cannot be loaned twice to the same team in the same season or some rule like that). Dublin City wanted their game with Waterford replayed, threatened court action etc. The playoff between Finn Harps and Longford Town was held up for at least a week over it, costing both side an extra week or two in wages.
Peadar
22/08/2006, 2:10 PM
(something about you cannot be loaned twice to the same team in the same season or some rule like that).
You can't move twice, within the league, in the same season.
soccerc
22/08/2006, 2:23 PM
The proposed €250 000 transfer of Stephen Ward to Fredrikstads FK is off, following Don Givens advice to the Bohs player that he would be better off playing out the rest of the eL season before considering his options.
FFK are still said to be interested and that they will continue to watch the player this coming autumn, according to Norwegian newspaper Fredriksstadsbladet.
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