View Full Version : Just wondering
Where o' where has all the Murphy out folk gone??:D :D
Two words, Fickle and Very, and not necessarily in that order!!:eek: ;)
If it was him that brought in the new players, and has them playing total football, then the man is a legend. Having said that, he was in charge last season when we went about 4 months without a goal in Turners Cross. I think it is the new players who have raised the standards and confidence of players around them, encouraging them to play better football.
Éanna
29/07/2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Xlex
Where o' where has all the Murphy out folk gone??:D :D
Two words, Fickle and Very, and not necessarily in that order!!:eek: ;)
Still here. Murphy out til I die
Casegrande
29/07/2002, 11:58 AM
Still here.
Ditto. Like the next City fan Im hoping that this is not a flash in the pan. Weve had 3 results and alot of goals, which breeds confidence, but Glenmore, as the scoreline suggests, werent too hot, we were due a win over UCD and Shels are in a transition thingy. I did say before that i was wiping Gunthers filthy slate clean, and so far Im glad i did, but there is a long season ahead.
btw, who is Town manager now?
Éanna
29/07/2002, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by GWA
I did say before that i was wiping Gunthers filthy slate clean
Industrial cleaner and a power-hose wouldn't have managed that- OUT :eek:
Dricky
29/07/2002, 12:35 PM
Still Here, I'd love to be eating humble pie at the end of the season.
mmmm humble pie :)
same as gary and cas
think the new players have changed things added to the summer soccer factor
not necessarily anything gunther did
and yea clean slate for new season, but i still dont like the guy
we will know a bit more about how good ccfc are when they play derry, bray, pat's (a) and boh's (b) in the space of two weeks.
i am still not convince about our defence and central midfield
midfield and upfront is grand now
its just at the back i wry
deccie when fit and unsuspended will play and we will suffer for it
my worry as well. presently the problem with our defence is there is no established leader in the heart of it- i was hoping john andrews may fill that role. by all accounts in england he was a passionate committed defender. shels have tony mccarthy, bohs have hawkins, we have a unwieldy pairing of gaz and napier.
i am also sad to see grady out with injury. i think a lot of supporters were banking on him in midfiled when the going gets tough- it will be interesting to see how the team responds to his absence
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 3:09 PM
Originally posted by James
think the new players have changed things added to the summer soccer factor
not necessarily anything gunther didAnd who exactly signed these new players?:p
Also, seeing as we have just broke a biggest win record, doesnt that mean that (in a way) Gunther is our best manager ever?:D :o
i thought this would re-surface again. the anti-murph clones can't have it both ways. however we have only played 2 competitive games there is another 25 to go!!!!! so we will see.
one question for the anti-murph clones would ye rather be proved right and we finish mid table and win nothing or be proved wrong and we win win the league:confused:
Originally posted by dalo
we win win the league:confused:
definately .. going for that option :)
but dalo everything isnt always as black and white as you make it out to be, esp with ccfc
just cause we lose matches i dont necessarily blame gunther
just as if we win i dont necessarily say its the team and not the manager
both impact on winning and losing of games
however - some of gunthers off the fields activities added to some of his comments, last year were shocking and were a disgrace and not worthy of a manager of this club or any ( yes that even includes ramblers :) )
course its early days but my tip is to back us now ,cause the odds wont be half as good in a few weeks :)
and troy yea gunther did sign those players, with money provided by brian lennox, last year there was no money available for players, so credit to lennox for that also
oh and dalo if you want to continue this verbal sparring then come up with some new material or a new angle , cause you're begining to bore me :)
no verbal sparring intended james. i leave my sparring for the gym:D
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 4:18 PM
Originally posted by James
and troy yea gunther did sign those players, with money provided by brian lennox, last year there was no money available for players, so credit to lennox for that also The only chairman in the last 5 years to give hard cash up front to buy players was Dunne when DM was in charge, yet there was alot of stick aimed at him (as a board member) last year, for not coughing up cash. Olli€ left last year because of cash, cash that BL (on the same board) could have forked over if he wanted, especially when he became chairman. The cost of ALL of the players that Gunther has signed has amounted to zero € & zero cent. Fair enough, BL pays the wages ( but, as so many people pointed out last season - especially with regard to Hartigan- it is in effect us the paying fans who pay the players wages.) Dont fool yourself and think that BL hands over his money just coz he loves Cork soccer, he's doing a nice job at the mo, but he's not the sole reason the team are doing well, he's just a relatively minor part of it.
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
but he's not the sole reason the team are doing well, he's just a relatively minor part of it.
exactly and so is gunther only a minor reason we are doing well
as is the new buzz around the cross as is imo the move to summer soccer
and all these minor reasons added to the major ones
John O Flynn
George O Callaghan and
Billy Woodset al
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
The cost of ALL of the players that Gunther has signed has amounted to zero € & zero cent. Fair enough, BL pays the wages ( but, as so many people pointed out last season - especially with regard to Hartigan- it is in effect us the paying fans who pay the players wages.)
exactly BL does pay the wages, but where do they come from the fans, and with city prob the great majority of the money they ever made was from gate receipts, and i seriously doubt that a few thousandfans a week , as we were getting in the poor days or last year and other years, would be enough to run the club on , so i have no doubt that yea the directors do put their hands in their pockets from time to time to pay for wages.
as for shels the reason they can outspent us and offer ollie much better condidtions and i beleive he was offered a nice signing on bonus also if the rumours are correct it because despite only ever getting a fraction of the gate receipts we do they have other comercial venutures in place. WE NEVER DID.
as for brian loving cork and cork soccer - course he does, look at what we were and where we were when he took over sole responsibilty... after the shambles of last season, a team playing with low morale..and with little prospects for this season after losign ollie..
i dont think u can say that any LOI owner is ever in it for the money the way things are currently in this league
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 4:36 PM
Originally posted by James
i dont think u can say that any LOI owner is ever in it for the money the way things are currently in this league Fine so, I wont bother saying it.
OK I will....Olli€ Byrne! :D
exception that proves the rule
anyways i was discounting the west brit league team :)
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 5:03 PM
Originally posted by James
gunther only a minor reason we are doing well So was Gunter only a minor reason for City doing badly last season? For better or for worse, the buck stops with the manager, I'd say about 65% of the teams performance rests with the manager, so I believe that he deserves more credit for going over to England and leaving his family at home for a while to track down these players, when a lot of people were saying that it was a waste of money which should have been put back into the youth set-up etc.
and all these minor reasons added to the major ones
John O Flynn
George O Callaghan and
Billy Woodset al Again, who actually went over to England, scouted these players and convinced them to play for City. (The answer is in the interviews they have given, and Ive never once heard one of them say "I heard that BL was incharge and reshaping the club", its been "Liam came to me and offered me a contract")
exactly BL does pay the wages, but where do they come from the fans, and with city prob the great majority of the money they ever made was from gate receipts, and i seriously doubt that a few thousandfans a week , as we were getting in the poor days or last year and other years, would be enough to run the club on , so i have no doubt that yea the directors do put their hands in their pockets from time to time to pay for wages.
as for shels the reason they can outspent us and offer ollie much better condidtions and i beleive he was offered a nice signing on bonus also if the rumours are correct it because despite only ever getting a fraction of the gate receipts we do they have other comercial venutures in place. WE NEVER DID.Im definitly not saying that the club was run perfictally (or even propperly) before, and Im not saying that he hasnt been good for the club, the new things like the family enclosure have been great, but him simply being there doesnt mean that everything is/will be rosey & that all the good things have been because of him. Its not like he has just come into things, after all he has been a board member for a long time. As for the money thing, how many people were bit.shing about the Celtic match 2 years ago? The board was slated for the match (although I think that it was a good move) for being clearly a money spinning racket, just like the golf classics. Some of these $hels-like corporate/fundraising events have been organised in the past, but the fans are the ones who complain and fail to support (just like the dog racing last year)
Must of the league may dispise Ollie Byrne but I think secretly a lot of us would love to have a club chairman/secretary as passionate about his club as Ollie is.
Sure he goes over the top most times (cos the league/fai let him do so) but he does do it for the good of $hel$.
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 5:16 PM
Ya, fair point Pete, but then again, the good of $hels is also the good of Olli€!
Alot of their ideas are good, I'd love to have Man U over here, but the way they go about it is often wrong (ie they shouldnt have had it 24 hours before a league game + the Celtic one 24 hours after another). There's a thread about this on ShelsWeb (http://www.shelbournefc.ie) at the mo. Most of them are actually pretty peeved about the way they are run. The best run club in the country is Bohs, although they also depend on 'on the pitch' success, just like us.
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
[B] and Ive never once heard one of them say "I heard that BL was incharge and reshaping the club", its been "Liam came to me and offered me a contract")[
haha there was i after hearing that liam had to literally beg 1 or 2 of the players to join.
as for you're gunther going over to england and scouting those players.. lol what a load of nonsense although its given me a laugh on an otherwise drab kinda monday.
those players that gunther 'scouted' (LOL) we cast offs from english league sides due to the collapse of the ITV digital deal, nothing to do whatsoever with wanting to play for city
(bar woods of course :) )
and lets get that straight
as for BL, well i aint saying he;s the massiah or anything but he sure is better then those cowboys we had previously
luck prob has something to do with it also
as for your celtic point
couyrse playing celtic in a preseason friendly is a good thing, its a chance to fleece all the thousands of people from glasgow that live in cork, cause they are willing to pay the €€€ to see the oirish side :) what ****ed me off was the fact that that tie was due to be played a day either before or after (i cant remember exctly) we were to have played in a 2nd round intertoto cup tie, (if we had beaten the metalurgus boyo's like we should have)
the fact they would have arranged such a glamour tie when potentially we would have be playing away in Holland.
thats what ****ed me off
- did they realise the matches could have clashed : i doubt it
- what would they have done.. i mean this aint the fai where you can rearrange an eircom league match so you can play your important friendly,,..
Originally posted by James
the fact they would have arranged such a glamour tie when potentially we would have be playing away in Holland.
thats what ****ed me off
Yeah given the appearance fee $eltic were asking for City could potentially made more out of the Dutch inter-toto game.
Its also beyond me why more poeple are interested in a pre-season friendly against $eltic than a competitive european game against players you unlikely to have a chance to see again & who could turn out to be world stars. Sure haven't the likes of Hakan Sukur, Patrik Berger, Porborsky? etc..... not to mention the Bayern Munich stars jplayed against city in europe....
The test of Gunther & Lennox will be improve (don't laugh ;) ) the new players & if we can't sell them off for profit get them to stay with City. In our recent league campaigns we've been beater away from home so heres hoping for good result against Drogs...
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 5:39 PM
Originally posted by James
those players that gunther 'scouted' (LOL) we cast offs from english league sides due to the collapse of the ITV digital deal, nothing to do whatsoever with wanting to play for city
(bar woods of course :) )
and lets get that straight Exactly, Gunter went to them, Gunter convinced that comming home was good for them, Gunter was the reason they are here!
PS I dont think that Billy would have come back with Ollie still here, but thats for another thred!
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
Exactly, Gunter went to them, Gunter convinced that comming home was good for them, Gunter was the reason they are here!
ok these boys were back in cork already: FACT
where was this scouting of players u spoke of?
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 6:35 PM
Originally posted by James
where was this scouting of players u spoke of?
Where did I say he scouted them? Thats different to approaching them and getting them to sign for us.
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
Again, who actually went over to England, scouted these players and convinced them to play for City.
there ??
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 6:45 PM
Good spot!:D :o :eek: I forgot about that!
I didnt exactly mean to say that he followed their progress in the reserve sides or whatever, but you have to admit that the guy has an eye for spotting tallent (who had heard of O'Gready last year or O'Flynn this year?). What I was saying was that he sniffed out these players who wern't exactly household names and brought them here, not BL as was semi-implied earlier.
I hope Xlex is happy with all the trouble he's caused!
i dont think anyone was half implying that BL brought the player to the clubs only the fact that he is bankrolling it..
*any self impliing on your behalf is your business*
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 7:03 PM
Originally posted by James
yea gunther did sign those players, with money provided by brian lennox, last year there was no money available for players, so credit to lennox for that also Im sure that there's a semi-insinuation there! :)
oh dear, that reads to me like credit BL for providing the money and bankrolling the new signings??
anyone else ??
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 7:15 PM
I accept that ultimatly he is the one who ratifies the contracts, but the way you put it (at least to me) is that the players wouldnt have joined City if he wasnt the chairman and as I said, he have spent absolutly nothing since DM was in charge (& SFA beforehand).
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
I accept that ultimatly he is the one who ratifies the contracts, but the way you put it (at least to me) is that the players wouldnt have joined City if he wasnt the chairman and as I said, he have spent absolutly nothing since DM was in charge (& SFA beforehand).
ok this is just going to develop into the nit-picking thread
well i reckon they mightnot have who knows??
they are getting paid enough in wages which is coming from BL, so maybe that is true
BUT
to say that they are playing cause of the great scouting job done by gunther is aload of pants..they are professional players and only playing for city cause of money, paid for by BL.
thats why GO'C and O'Flynn even though rumoured to sign for city for awhile didnt actually sign contracts.. MONEY
they wanted to sign 3 or 4 (if i remember) weeks before city started training and thus get paid from then on.
City wanted to sign them from the week they started training, and not pay them for nothing
All down to MONEY
Troy.McClure
29/07/2002, 7:29 PM
Originally posted by James
ok this is just going to develop into the nit-picking thread
Develop?
to say that they are playing cause of the great scouting job done by gunther is aload of pants..they are professional players and only playing for city cause of money, paid for by BL.
But my point is that they wouldnt even be at City to get contracts in the first place if it wernt for Gunter.
What a pointless thread!;)
hmm boring is this
miss gerry do i
no decent debate here anymore is there?
go must i
final point from me :)
But my point is that they wouldnt even be at City to get contracts in the first place if it wernt for Gunter.
I think they would have.
I think they wouldnt even be at City to get contracts in the first place if it wernt for Brian Lennox or a chairman willing to pay a decent wage.. its not like these players were poor players, read the peterboro and MB's of the other former clubs of theirs, they were and are good players, only released due to digital crash.
they ended up coming home to cork
- now it aint rock science for the manager of the cork based soccer club to come knocking on the doors of those players is it?
i mean its a mark of gunther expertiese as a man manager and all round people person that he practically had to beg one of the players to join and play for city.
QED: i'm right :) and going home for some toast and jam
adamd164
29/07/2002, 8:50 PM
I have to see how City fare away from home aswell before I judge the team this season, not that Murphy's the one playing
simple rule of thumb> see how we do when the season is over.
personally i don't think city is run any better all of a sudden becuase BL is brought in. i don't doubt his intent or his passion but we can only see what improvements are made at the end of the season and not before.
as for gunther surely he knows this is his make or break season. personally I think he will it a day at the end of the seasonanyway
Jeez people are ye related or something as reads like one of the pointless arguments i'd have with my brother. :eek:
btw league table positions never lie - you can be lucky in the cup but if you top the league (ignoring $hel & Pats last year) you deserve to do so.
Managers can be lucky for a while but not for ever. Given Gunther has had 1 1/2 seasons already this season shoukld show the true abilities. Gunterh may be lucky with the returnees but whoe to say Davie Barry didn't have the same luck with Ollie 'n co.
Originally posted by pete
Jeez people are ye related or something as reads like one of the pointless arguments i'd have with my brother. :eek:
btw league table positions never lie - you can be lucky in the cup but if you top the league (ignoring $hel & Pats last year) you deserve to do so.
Managers can be lucky for a while but not for ever. Given Gunther has had 1 1/2 seasons already this season shoukld show the true abilities. Gunterh may be lucky with the returnees but whoe to say Davie Barry didn't have the same luck with Ollie 'n co.
i agree with you pete. the above thread was abit pointless to say the least. the end of season table will tell us how well gunther has done and not before. as to how people may think we do that is a different story (i reckon mid table)
Éanna
01/08/2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by dalo
my worry as well. presently the problem with our defence is there is no established leader in the heart of it
Wouldn't agree there at all. Gaz captained city a good few times when he was with us before and I would see him as a natural leader at the back.
Troy.McClure
01/08/2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by James
- now it aint rock science for the manager of the cork based soccer club to come knocking on the doors of those players is it?
But what does geology have to do with it?:confused: ;)
Éanna
01/08/2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
Again, who actually went over to England, scouted these players and convinced them to play for City.
Oh cool, everyone stand up and profess their love for liam murphy because he actually decided to do what he's paid to do. It's his bloody job to get new players persoanlly, I don't care whether he clones them or goes to mongolia- it's his job.
As for the whole thread- whoever said it was like an argument between siblings was right.
Few points:
- Lennox appears to have a plan as he said at the outset and (new one for city fans) appears to be implementing -some of- it. this is welcome. Family enclosure, PA, etc are all things that have been mooted for some time- well done Brian.
- Liam Murphy has signed some good players. well done Liam.
We'll see what happens-Murphy out:p
Dricky
01/08/2002, 1:11 PM
Good point Éanna he is being paid to do the job but I do beleive Gunther had something to do the players comming over, why how many players that gunther didn't want on the team played last year???
Still don't think he should of let any go for free, a grudge is one thing business is another which did he choose?? thats one of my problems with him.
He has to prove himself with a title of trophy, and he has to go on a PR course.
Spot on. Just because he's good at spotting players, doesn't make him a great manager. he brought good players in before and it got us nowhere.
Originally posted by Dricky
He has to prove himself with a title of trophy, and he has to go on a PR course.
like the legion of former managers who won bucketloads with club and were really good at pr too?
like rob hindmarch, colin murphy, derek moutfield, eamoon o'keefe, rico. yeah they won loads with the club!!!! i mean i didn't like noel o'mahony and DB could be grumpy (despite being a sporting hero) but they won our only two decent trophies. to hell with pr .
i couldn't really care less if gunther ate small children (or previously upset eanna in a former existence:D ) as long as he delivers this season. that is the bottom line
Troy.McClure
01/08/2002, 3:09 PM
Originally posted by dalo
i couldn't really care less if gunther ate small children (or previously upset eanna in a former existence:D ) as long as he delivers this season. that is the bottom line 2 true. Like you said before, I think that he will pack it in at the end of the year aswell, with or without some silverware.
Hilly for manager?:confused:
Patsy for promotion? :)
Mountfield to return? :o
Casegrande
01/08/2002, 3:19 PM
Originally posted by Troy.McClure
I think that he will pack it in at the end of the year aswell, with or without some silverware.
Why do you think that? After getting through last season without packing in, I'd say he's here for a while (especially if we keep on winning)
Troy.McClure
01/08/2002, 3:23 PM
I think that he said back along, that he was more or less doing it for the club because they were stuck for a manager and that he prefers to work in the accademy. He's hinted that he wont be signing another contract alright a few times.
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