Ireland 0 - Holland 4 Reaction

[drummerboy]

I wonder if the penny has dropped in the corridors of power in the FAI. They have appointed a man who has no qualifications to manage a team at international level. Ireland were tactically inept tonight, especially in the first half. After only 3 matches the crowd are starting to boo players off the field. Even defensively, we look totallly disorganised. Simple things like marking your man at set pieces is beyond our defenders. In the end of the day the buck stops with the manager.

At least the system was better in the second half. Pleasantly surprised by Alan O'Brien, but he will have to develop a few tricks to add to his unbelievable speed. Kevin Doyle looked impressive, he's have to start in Germany with Robbie Keane up front. McGeady did enough in the second half to convince me that he is begining to mature into a decent footballer.

However the signs are not good. Staunton is already saying he is building for the future. In other words he doesn't expect us to qualify for the Euros.

[The Legend]

I didnt see the game lads, but i am guessing it wasn't pretty!:(

[Scram]

Nightmare, Ireland lose 4-0 and Engerrland win 4-0 in the same night..the only consolation is that it was not in the same game!!

A sign of things to come in Germany or will the missing players make a big difference?....you would have to think so....I didn't agree with the general concensus that taking on Germany just after the World Cup was a good idea...especially with an experimental team. I hope to be proven wrong.

Oh and I am also sorry that Carr came out of retirement and may be first choice ahead of Finnan at right back.

[thelimerick]

Embarrasing by all accounts but i'll say this for what it's worth:

The team was completely fragmented in the way they approached the match. Players like Finnan were focused on short passing on the ground, finding a man, and moving forward patiently while players such as Kavanagh spent the entire first half hoofing the ball forward and imediately loosing possesion as a result. There were several game plans going on within the one team. That, regardless of who was in or out of the team, was the managers fault. His plan for the match, his idea of the teams approach, as a unit, was simply not evident.
For me players like Kilbane, O'Shea and Kavanagh are Irelands big weak links. I know we're not spoilt for choice but the one saving grace from that match has to be the injection of the younger faces. Doyle did more in the first five minutes of the second half than Morrision did in the first 45. McGeedy, when eventually given the service provided much, as did Alan O' Brien who looks a fine player albeit inexperienced at this level. Thats fine, that will come, the ability seems to be there which is more than can be said for some of the rubbish that have appeared in nearly every Irish team sheet since their debuts.
We are a small nation. We will most likely never be a big player in world football. However we have some fantastic young players with great potential coming though. Players like Joey O' Brien, Stephen Ireland, Aiden Mc Geedy, Paddy Mc Carthy, Kevin Doyle and Alan O' Brien to name a few. I can't see us making it to the Euro's with the likes of Kilbane, Kavanagh, O' Shea and Morrison playing key roles. I'd rather see that passion in the second half today be rewarded over the staleness of the fore-mentioned and see us not qualify than humour ourselves into believing we can WITH that staleness as part of the first team.

[thejollyrodger]

humilated

[Condex]

There's been people on this forum who rate Kavanagh, I think hes one of the worst players ever to wear a green jersey..., him O'Brien, O'Shea,Kilbane and the rest. In fact the only glimmer of hope is McGeady and Doyle, thank god I didn't get tickets to the game in Germany...

[PaulB]

The back 4 looked like they hadn't a clue, could have been 6 or 7, I know it was only a friendly but doesn't bode well for Germany..

Also, didn't Van Persie look a class act, best player on the park..

[PaulB]

Thought McGeady and Doyle were the only 2 that came out of that game with any credit, and maybe Finnan.

Kilbane, Reid, Morrison, Kavanagh, absolutely shocking Wouldn't like to depend on paddy kenny in our hour of need alos, doesn't instill a lot of confidence in his defence.

[Fergie's Son]

We should merge the threads.

Kilbane is a left-back or he should be left out.

O'Shea is not good enough.

Reid was out of sorts entirely.

Carr is not welcome back

My 'dream' Irish team:

Given

Finnan O'Brien Dunne Kilbane

McGeady Reid Reid Duff

Doyle Keane

[The Legend]

Much needed wakeup call before the euros start!

[Scram]

Dreading Germany. Can we please fit in another 3 friendlies before then :(

Looks like we were playing a "zone" defense when we should have been man marking and man marking when we should have been covering zones. Kilbane caught twice trying to lay the offside trap.

If Alan O'Brien had laid a pass off to Doyle it could have been 2-1 and who knows....5-1 Holland instead of 4-0 :o Still, some good individual football and hard to expect much from guys who have never played together.

[DmanDmythDledge]

We should merge the threads.

Kilbane is a left-back or he should be left out.

O'Shea is not good enough.

Reid was out of sorts entirely.

Carr is not welcome back

My 'dream' Irish team:

Given

Finnan O'Brien Dunne Kilbane

McGeady Reid Reid Duff

Doyle Keane
Are you serious about Kilbane at LB? I thought he had a shocking game.

[murtybyrne]

Lads it was so bad, and to make it even worse the amount of people leaving before full time was shocking............

Just totally Humilated.....

[Closed Account 2]

Well the only positive I can take from this is that we now know a lot of the squad players are not up to scratch.

I think anyone over 26 who played tonight (with the exception of Finnan, and maybe Andy O'Brien) should be looked at long and hard. Some players I normally rate (eg Kav, Morrison) were well below par. Maybe they were not fully match fit, but I fear I am clutching at straws here with that.

Hopefully this will give the squad the kick up the arse it needs, and we might snatch a draw in Germany - just have to pray the likes of Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given etc can play.

[Fergie's Son]

Are you serious about Kilbane at LB? I thought he had a shocking game.

I'm not sure, who else can we put there?

[DmanDmythDledge]

I'm not sure, who else can we put there?
Ian Harte if he's back would be the best option surely.

[Dodge]

Kerr out!!!

[Fergie's Son]

Ian Harte if he's back would be the best option surely.

I've seen Harte get skinned too many times. I'd still go with Kilbane but that's just my personal opinion, not really wedded to it.

[keenanboy]

I've been watching Ireland for a long time now, and out of say 20 years of football I have seen the worst in the last 3 years. Basle '03, Cyprus '05 and now tonight. I stood there on the North Terrace with the other 42,000 poor fools who gave up their evening to come and see their team play, or at least attempt to play.

Tactically inept, awash with journeymen who should long be shelved by now. Its simple to see the differences....when a Dutch player played a pass they moved into a fresh position, created an angle, an option, a diversion. when Kilbane played a "pass" he stopped to admire it. The attitude seemed to be "we'll I've passed it, I've done my bit." Passed the ball maybe mate, you've also passed the buck.

I wasn't looking for a glamourous performance, the Dutch are a tidy side, but they play it simple, no panicking, no hoofing, just nice an simple...pass and move. I don't know if there was one eye on the new season for some of those players out there tonight...if there was shame on them. For insulting their fans and their jersey.

Humiliated and disgusted.

[Hither green]

At least it was only a friendly. Hopefully a wake up call.

I agree with some of the earlier comments. Kilbane should have been left back or not in the side at all. I thought Alan O'Brien on had an alright game and I would have liked to have seen him on from the start.

O'Shea awful at centre back AGAIN. After Dunne and O'Brien what have we at centre back? Very little by the look of it, come back Breen all is forgiven. Why not try out some of the young lads, McCarthy of Leicester or Nolan of Blackburn? After Dunne and O'Brien we can't rely on O'Shea.

Fine, we were without Duff in midfield but apart from that... Kavanagh, Reid and McGeady... could almost have been first choice midfield, for me that was the worst bit. The Dutch were good, but we were awful. Where do we go from here I'm not sure

[Qwerty]

Pre-season friendly? Definitely a wake-up call.

The bottom line is we haven't been this weak in CM and CB for 20 or 25 years. Dunne and maybe S.Reid are the only decent options at this level in those positions. These are the key positions, until we strenghen these areas we won't get anyhwere.

Andy O'Brien can do a job if he is alongside Dunne but his club career is on a downward trajectory.

Kavanagh has failed at this level period, I'm sure Eirebhoy will disagree but I've seen enough. I don't see the point in persevering with him at 31. Sadly Jonathan Douglas or Alan Quinn are the only current alternatives, maybe Colin Healy can have a fairy tale return? not that he set the Ireland team alight.

O'Shea should be kept at left back, Kilbane has to be benched.

4-5-1 - we are so weak in CM we need an extra body in there.

It's odd that we have never had as many players to choose from but there are very few outstanding players.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Pre-season friendly? Definitely a wake-up call.

The bottom line is we haven't been this weak in CM and CB for 20 or 25 years. Dunne and maybe S.Reid are the only decent options at this level in those positions. These are the key positions, until we strenghen these areas we won't get anyhwere.

Andy O'Brien can do a job if he is alongside Dunne but his club career is on a downward trajectory.

Kavanagh has failed at this level period, I'm sure Eirebhoy will disagree but I've seen enough. I don't see the point in persevering with him at 31. Sadly Jonathan Douglas or Alan Quinn are the only current alternatives, maybe Colin Healy can have a fairy tale return? not that he set the Ireland team alight.

O'Shea should be kept at left back, Kilbane has to be benched.

4-5-1 - we are so weak in CM we need an extra body in there.

It's odd that we have never had as many players to choose from but there are very few outstanding players.
Would changing the formation to 4-5-1 be the best move though? Upfront is where we have our best options and it would be a waste not to take advantage of the situation. I don't think an extra body would make that much of a difference in CM, maybe slighty more possession, but teams have played with the standard 2 centre midfielders before without difficulty so I don't see it as a problem now. I'd like to have seen the two Reids together in CM before the qualification begins to see how that would have worked.

Also what I think what we lacked tonight was a leader on the pitch, someone that would motivate the team. Richard Dunne would usually be good at this but I feel you always need someone in midfield that will get stuck into the opposition but I just didn't see that tonight or against Chile.

Also did anybody else John O'Shea being made captain for the second half:confused:

[gustavo]

Very disappointing result and performance by all accounts. only saw brief highlights They looked a cut above. At least now we go into the Germany game with zero expectations which might be good . Anyone know why Robben was booed?

[DmanDmythDledge]

Anyone know why Robben was booed?
Presume his reputation for being a diving cheat- he was booed from before kick off.

[gustavo]

Presume his reputation for being a diving cheat- he was booed from before kick off.

Jeez thats laughable

[Eoingull]

Van Persie was also booed at the start of the game...I can only presume it's because of their Premiership links...which, of course, is silly at an Ireland international. Jaysus, Holland really were a cut above our lads. Unlike the commentary I saw on RTE when I got home, I actually thought Ireland were trying to compete, but they just weren't good enough. Congratulations to the several thousand supporters who left when the fourth goal went in.

[4tothefloor]

I posted ages ago in a thread about the future that we are in big trouble. I was shouted down by the delusional who think Kavanagh is a good midfielder - well there's your evidence tonight. The man is a joke and hasn't played one good game for Ireland. He's absolutely useless and is not up to this level. All he does is make rash challenges and pass the ball sideways, or hoof it up field :rolleyes:

John O'Shea shouldn't be left near the defense. Play him in midfield or leave him out. Kevin Kilbane should not be starting. Playing Steve Finnan at left back to accomodate that ***** Steven Carr is a joke and I fear a bad sign of things to come from Staunton. All I can think of as an explanation is that he is good buddies with Carr - other than that I don't understand why this water carrier, pathetic excuse for a defender is back in the setup. Why come back if you're not going to try??? :mad: Clinton Morrisson up front was poor and I feel it might be time to relegate him to the role of impact sub, because he's no longer doing the business from the start.

I've said this all along, I think Staunton should concentrate on bringing in and playing the likes of Paddy McCarthy, Alan O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Stephen Ireland, McGeady, Stephen Kelly, Jon Douglas, Liam Miller, even Stephen McPhail. Fingers crossed for Paul McShane at WBA, although it beggers belief that Paddy McCarthy is not even in the squad considering the riff-raff that is. Forget about Kilbane and Kavanagh etc 'cos (a) They're not the future, and (b) We are not going to qualify with these players anyway...

My team for Germany:
Given
Finnan Dunne O'Brien Harte
O'Shea
McGeady A Reid S Reid Duff
Keane


Waste of time IMO playing 4-5-1 because Robbie Keane cannot play that role. He needs a strike partner. Duff would have to be a link between midfield and up front. But after tonights shambles and the rubbish against Chile, it looks like 5 in midfield 'cos the confidence will be shot after tonight.

BTW, what a joke Steven Reid as captain :rolleyes:

[Forever Dreamin]

Congratulations to the several thousand supporters who left when the fourth goal went in.


Why? Why go if you dont suport the team through thick and thin?

I know im probably a lot older that most on this forum but in my 35 yrs watching Ireland this is the worst result ever in terms of scores, but i still say drawing with Lichesntein, Israel etc were worse.

Yes we go to Germany expecting a hiding now and maybe thats for the better, we dont handle the favourites tag well. Also reality is we had our 4 best players missing and when you have only 4 quality players you wont manage with that.

Watch the johnny come latelys now not purchase their tickets for Czech and San Marino at home.... knowing theyll get tickets for croker!

See you all in stuttgart

[theworm2345]

All we lacked was experience, a few flashes of good individual play, but we didnt have the experience up front or in the middle that Holland had (excluding Huntelaar). Hate to say it, but Brian Kerr never lost a match 4-0, hell, he never even lost a match at all until 365 days ago (it is midnight in Ireland, right?), against the future world champions

[pineapple stu]

Kerr out!!!
:D




Worst.

Performance.

Ever.



Rational analysis - whenever we got the ball in the Dutch half of the field, I thought we were alright. No more. Other than that, it was embarrassing. I'm flying out to Stuttgart in 15 days. I was looking forward to it.

[Eoingull]

Sorry "Forever Dreamin"...I was being sarcastic...I haven't quite got the hang of putting the smiley faces, etc at the end of my post. I think it's sinful not staying until the end. It's also disappointing to hear folk boo their own National team...something I never have, and never will do.
I don't get the jibe about the tickets. Are they that easy to come by that people can pick and choose which games to go to? I missed the boat re. block booking back around 1999/2000, and find it a real struggle to get any competitive international tickets.

[Soper]

All I know is Ireland wouldn't have lost 4 nil to Holland if they had Eircom League players in the team.

Terrible performance, and Germany will slaughter us.

[pineapple stu]

Was thinking just that midway through the second half. Take O'Shea out and replace him with Tony McDonnell or Alan McNally (or your own centre-half's name). We wouldn't have been noticeable worse, and he might have cared.

[dfx-]

My second last trip to watch Ireland was at four years ago against The Netherlands. The difference in fortunes was staggering to watch.

Netherlands didn't have to do much, a free header, a hopeless mistake, a counter attack and a throughball against a terrible defence. It could've been and should've been more and they had 20 minutes to spare.

I wouldn't however look in the short term towards abject failure..because as players come back, they might at least make it competitive.

However if that is the second best side that Staunton can put out in the midst of injuries, the long term future of Irish international football is bleaker than Waterford's league prospects.

[pineapple stu]

However if that is the second best side that Staunton can put out in the midst of injuries, the long term future of Irish international football is bleaker than Waterford's league prospects.
And John Delaney can't control UEFA like he can the eircom League. ;)

[Closed Account 2]

What a load of balls tonight was. I hope/think with Shay, Damien, Robbie and big Dunney back we'll be a much more solid outfit.

Its negative talk but Germany away is our hardest fixture, even if we slip up there we can still make 2nd.

I think tonight was a shocker, but I'm convinced it's physically impossible for us to play that badly ever again...

It's still early days for Stan, but he needs to stem the tide pretty quickly. I have to say, I dont think a team managed by Aldo would have been that weak - or if they had he would have given them the mother of all roastings at half time.

[Soper]

In fairness, the fact that our 'second best side' is brutal is down to Stauntons squad selection, and isn't indicitave of the actual players we have that don't get selected for whatever reason, e.g. having the cheek to play in their countries league.

Our team was on the decline, it still is, and we need to start using one or two league players properly.

[DmanDmythDledge]

In fairness, the fact that our 'second best side' is brutal is down to Stauntons squad selection, and isn't indicitave of the actual players we have that don't get selected for whatever reason, e.g. having the cheek to play in their countries league.

Our team was on the decline, it still is, and we need to start using one or two league players properly.
Have to agree with that. Daryll Murphy never set the world alight when he was with Waterford but he still performed well and got his fare share of goals. 2 games(I think) for Sunderland, and although he scored in them he's in the squad. (Was he in the squad originally?)

[dfx-]

I don't understand how throwing on those players at half time 0-2 down to a far superior side could either help the side, the crowd, the press reaction or the individual players' confidence "going forward".

[Soper]

Staunton is wrong, of course, and he better realise that soon or risk turning the team into even more of a laughing stock than it is now.(In response to what d f x had said originally)

[Fergie's Son]

All I know is Ireland wouldn't have lost 4 nil to Holland if they had Eircom League players in the team.

Terrible performance, and Germany will slaughter us.


You're right, would have been 8-0.

Please stop with the LOI stuff. Most LOI players are not good enough for the Irish team. John O'Shea may be poor but he's a lot better than most LOI players.

[Dodge]

You're right, would have been 8-0.

Please stop with the LOI stuff. Most LOI players are not good enough for the Irish team. John O'Shea may be poor but he's a lot better than most LOI players.
Watch much LOI? I think the point he was making was that the team didn't try and the LOI lads would have. I'm fairly certain he wasn't claiming they were better players

[Fergie's Son]

I disagree. The team did try they just weren't good enough.

They were outclassed by a better team and all the huffing and puffing in the world would not have changed that.

[Metrostars]

First off, thank god this was just a friendly. Player-wise, I don't think that there was much more Staunton could have done considering all the absentees. Our BEST 4 players were out FFS. And do we really think a Paddy McCarthy would have made much of a difference? I am not saying he should not have been called up for this as I think he and McShane should have been, but I don't think they would have made much of a difference.

The bottom line is that we simply are not that good. Maybe when we have everyone available, we might be able to hold out for a draw in Germany. I think Staunton made a big mistake at the end of last season by not playing an extra 3-4 friendlies against World Cup bound teams to give the likes of McGeady, McCarthy, McShane, Ireland etc more time to gel with the team and deal with problem areas such as centre-back and midfield.

[Fergie's Son]

Well Ireland is injured and may not even get his game for Man. City.

A few positives from tonight:

McGeady, in the first half with two Dutch players on him, doing a Zidane move to spin away from them. It's been a looooong time since I've seen an Irish player with this much skill.

Paddy Kenny isn't that bad.

Doyle looks good.

Other than that...the Germans are a team that runs and runs so that will play to our strength.....

Can't believe the $$ I am spending to get to Stuttgart...oh well, hope lives eternal!

[mypost]

I posted ages ago in a thread about the future that we are in big trouble. well there's your evidence tonight.

You pick a game when we had 8 squad withdrawals in order to prove your point, I see. :rolleyes: It was a clueless, passionless performance, and a sad way to mark the last friendly at Lansdowne. :(

But it's also a one-off, the game in Germany will see a different, fitter, hungrier Irish side, with most if not all the big names back. I wouldn't panic because of the Holland result. Just one of those nights.

[BobbySands]

Lets face it. We have zero chance of qualifying from the group. With that in mind lets concentrate on the next world cup.

Get rid of Kilbane and Clinton. Complete liabilities.

Get rid of Staunton. Players don't respect him. They think he's a mate. Duff, Keane et al need someone who frightens the ****e out of them. Good footballers but lazy buggers.

[rerun]

You're right, would have been 8-0.

Please stop with the LOI stuff. Most LOI players are not good enough for the Irish team. John O'Shea may be poor but he's a lot better than most LOI players.

4-0, 8-0, whats the difference? At least with some eL players in the side you are going to improve the level here rather than just picking players because they work over the water. When we were down to 16 players the chance was there to call in 3 or 4 eL players.

[kingoffifa]

eircom league players as squad members?Sure.they would put a bit of pride in their jersey anyway.bryne looked ok v chile.if they were in the squad i would say it would add a bit more meanin to the training matches!

was dissappointed with kav tonight.i thought that he did well against chile.i expected him to impose himself more.the midfield role was there for him to take and make his own.that was the biggest downer for me tonight with the players.and morrison was as useless as he normally is.

so does this mean drubbing mean ye'd take nolan?


hehe....

[concanta]

Depending on the result in germany - I would seriously consider hanging youngsters in the squad for the next games against czechs and cyprus. I think the fight for 2nd place will be a real dog fight - I would fear the welsh and the slovaks more than the czechs to be honest.

McGeady, Alan O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Ireland - mccarthy and mcshane shoudl be brought into the squad - I know people will they totally lack experience but to be honest I would prefer these players to get experience.

If everyone is fit my team for Germany is

Given

Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
Harte

McGeady
Reid
Reid
Duff

Keane
Doyle


That team is not too bad at all and is capable of getting a result if they play their hearts out - I include Harte because of his skill at free kicks....and our other options for left back aren't an awful lot better than him and dont have the free kicks skills