View Full Version : Revenue After Shels Again
higgins
15/08/2006, 10:52 PM
Sorry, but could someone please explain to me what an earth is "historical" debt? Either you owe someone money or you don't! Does calling it "historical" kind of make it alright if you haven't bothered to pay them? If so, why don't I try defaulting on my mortgage repayments and just say to my bank when they eventually come knocking, "ah, sure it's just historical - you gave me my mortgage ages ago, didn't you? I'll get back to you with my repayments when I'm good and ready."....eh, I don't think so:o
Revenue never mentioned anything historical. That first came about with Brian Lennox trying to convince the cork fans it was all an innocent mistake. Most seem to have swallowed it. Ollie on the other hand is a nasty criminal trying to cheat everyone in the league :rolleyes:
A debt is a debt and they all need paying.....
NO EXCUSES....
OneRedArmy
15/08/2006, 11:18 PM
Ollie on the other hand is a nasty criminal trying to cheat everyone in the leagueI'm glad you've woken up to sense.
Can you now go forward and spread the word to the rest of the members of your cult.
Anto McC
15/08/2006, 11:54 PM
I'm glad you've woken up to sense.
Can you now go forward and spread the word to the rest of the members of your cult.
It'll never work,he is and always will be a God in my eyes!
bohs til i die
16/08/2006, 8:10 AM
It'll never work,he is and always will be a God in my eyes!
there is a lot of guys in Mountjoy who had kids like you thinking that of them ......
Any update on this? High Court date is next Wednesday 23rd August...
Poor Student
20/08/2006, 5:20 PM
Any update on this? High Court date is next Wednesday 23rd August...
An article by Mark Gallagher in the Ireland on Sunday had words to the effect of "the bill will be definitely paid by the date" but that looked like it was lifted off Shelsweb. The media doesn't seem to have unearthed any real explanation as to where this second wind up order came from.:confused:
An article by Mark Gallagher in the Ireland on Sunday had words to the effect of "the bill will be definitely paid by the date" but that looked like it was lifted off Shelsweb. The media doesn't seem to have unearthed any real explanation as to where this second wind up order came from.
It says a lot about the eL when it isn't really a big deal when one of its most prominent clubs gets a winding up order. Chances are it'll be paid of course, but Shels seem to be walking a very fine line. One f*%k up in getting money from the property guys or whoever and it's bye bye. And if they weren't having bother paying wouldn't it be paid before the date?
In any case it's yet more bad publicity for the league........
Dr.Nightdub
20/08/2006, 6:39 PM
If you add up all the bits and pieces, it sounds to me like Shels are just alternating between paying the Revenue and paying the players, but they're not in a position to do both at once.
thejollyrodger
20/08/2006, 6:53 PM
Ollie says there is nothing to worry about so Im not stressed.
Ollie says there is nothing to worry about so Im not stressed.
Fair enough so.
Poor Student
20/08/2006, 7:08 PM
If you add up all the bits and pieces, it sounds to me like Shels are just alternating between paying the Revenue and paying the players, but they're not in a position to do both at once.
That's as good a guess as I can come up with. Now that the transfer window has closed and the season's end is approaching they can stop paying the players again.;)
A face
20/08/2006, 9:26 PM
Ollie says there is nothing to worry about so Im not stressed.
Oh chríst ... we won 6 points from Dublin City and 4 from Shels so we stand to lose 10 points for not losing a game. ffs
green-blood
21/08/2006, 1:53 PM
yeah but you'll gain a place when shels go on holidays early....
Red&White
21/08/2006, 4:58 PM
yeah but you'll gain a place when shels go on holidays early....
Just about the only way they'll get second spot...
Schumi
21/08/2006, 6:15 PM
An article by Mark Gallagher in the Ireland on Sunday had words to the effect of "the bill will be definitely paid by the date" but that looked like it was lifted off Shelsweb. The media doesn't seem to have unearthed any real explanation as to where this second wind up order came from.:confused:
Here (http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=16552-qqqx=1.asp)'s the article. It seems to suggest that it's the same bill as the last winding-up order.
The Revenue filed a similar petition against the club in March after it emerged it owed €300,000 in back taxes. The petition was dropped after the two sides agreed a schedule of repayment. However, the club has fallen behind on the repayments, prompting the Revenue to return to the High Court. The two sides are in negotiations for a new deal.
passerrby
21/08/2006, 6:22 PM
if ollie gets his replay with bohs and give the gate to charity
does that mean shels is registered as a charity. if not i could recommenend that well known charitry the foot in mouth foundation ,im sure ollie knows them i think he was a founder member
Actually Schumi I'd read that as implying that it's a new winding up order...
pineapple stu
21/08/2006, 6:51 PM
My reading too.
OneRedArmy
21/08/2006, 6:57 PM
Its a new winding up order on the same debt.
There's also a fair chance the Revenue won't agree to a payment plan this time around and will demand everything paid up to date in a lump sum PDQ.
pineapple stu
21/08/2006, 7:02 PM
It's a new winding up order on the same debt.
Just read it again actually - you're right. It says Revenue and Shels agreed a settlement method - say 30 months @ E10,000 a month - which Shels have now defaulted on. Which isn't surprising really as, say, two gates of 1,500 a month might only bring in E30,000 cash in total, from which to pay the ten grand, wages, stadium expenses, debt servicing, travel, etc.
Schwalker
21/08/2006, 7:17 PM
Just read it again actually - you're right. It says Revenue and Shels agreed a settlement method - say 30 months @ E10,000 a month - which Shels have now defaulted on. Which isn't surprising really as, say, two gates of 1,500 a month might only bring in E30,000 cash in total, from which to pay the ten grand, wages, stadium expenses, debt servicing, travel, etc.
Hmm, there are no white knights on the horizon..? No rich old bstrd that would like to see his name in the papers now and then in return for a monthly handout?
These people that owns the clubs in EL..They got any money?
Poor Student
21/08/2006, 7:58 PM
I thought the the Revenue demanded the money up front last time? Do I not remember some quote the first time about Ollie holding the cheque for €300k in his hand and heading up to pay off the debt the next day?
pineapple stu
21/08/2006, 8:17 PM
Hmm, there are no white knights on the horizon..? No rich old bstrd that would like to see his name in the papers now and then in return for a monthly handout?
These people that owns the clubs in EL..They got any money?
Nope. There's two up at Drogheda, which is why they're doing as well as they are lately. Dublin City went belly up as they had one man bankrolling them. Not even the fans were paying in really. Ollie tried to go after someone, but he turned out to have more criminal convictions than Ollie and had nearly bankrupted previous clubs.
Anyway, football isn't about rich people bankrolling clubs.
I thought the the Revenue demanded the money up front last time? Do I not remember some quote the first time about Ollie holding the cheque for €300k in his hand and heading up to pay off the debt the next day?
That's what I thought too. So either (a) the article's incorrect (and the Business Post, as we have seen, is usually good) or (b) Ollie was lying about having paid the stuff off in total. Which, knowing Ollie, isn't impossible...
Student Mullet
21/08/2006, 8:20 PM
Anyway, football isn't about rich people bankrolling clubs.What football do you watch?
pineapple stu
21/08/2006, 8:27 PM
Apologies. Football's not supposed to be about rich people bankrolling clubs.
And I watch UCD. ;)
passerrby
21/08/2006, 9:19 PM
there is a declaration made on license applications stating that the club has no winding up orders or pending judgements that may impact on the licence appplication this must be signed by the chairman and licence officer before the end of this month by each club, will that be a problem for shels
pineapple stu
21/08/2006, 9:22 PM
Think you can get out of it by being in negotiations with the relevant body (i.e. Revenue in this case)
In any event, not being awarded a Premier licence only "may" result in a team not being allowed play in the Premier.
Dr.Nightdub
21/08/2006, 10:04 PM
Did they not change the rules after the Rovers situation last season i.e. from now on, no licence, no play?
Its probably worse that this is the same debt as last time. I know the Revenue are getting heavy handed with clubs after the Rovers situation but Shels must really be running out of lives now as would be surprised if they accept another repayment plan. We are getting towards the end of the season so if they have trouble paying debts now is only going to be more difficult with little revenue coming in during 3 months of the close season.
I wonder will any Swedes coming to try buy Jason Byrne again? 300k net transfer fee would go a long way now.
Dodge
22/08/2006, 12:17 PM
That should read "mystery" Swedes...
TonyD
22/08/2006, 12:20 PM
Apologies. Football's not supposed to be about rich people bankrolling clubs.
And I watch UCD. ;)
Ah, that explains your misconception :D
pineapple stu
22/08/2006, 1:15 PM
Did they not change the rules after the Rovers situation last season i.e. from now on, no licence, no play?
From memory, it's only "may" deny you a place in the Premier per the Licencing document. WHich makes a mockery of it entirely, of course.
passerrby
22/08/2006, 4:57 PM
Think you can get out of it by being in negotiations with the relevant body (i.e. Revenue in this case)
In any event, not being awarded a Premier licence only "may" result in a team not being allowed play in the Premier.
Could be right stu but i think the revenue are a tad ****ed of with ollie so dont believe they will negotiate its a case of pay or go to court
Risteard
23/08/2006, 11:06 AM
Why is this sitting currently in session even though Accolade stated the bill would be payed before the due date?
Jerry The Saint
23/08/2006, 11:33 AM
Why is this sitting currently in session even though Accolade stated the bill would be payed before the due date?
Well obviously the Revenue is just jealous of Shelbourne's success and would want to take a long hard look at themselves.
Risteard
23/08/2006, 11:34 AM
Can't believe this isn't getting any attention today.
Is this the first time one of these has actually gone to court in the league?
Dodge
23/08/2006, 12:31 PM
Apparently paid 600K in taxes sop far this year but defaulted on some. Need to pay €102K before some date in October
pineapple stu
23/08/2006, 12:33 PM
I heard it was thrown out of court on a technicality, to be heard again on 2nd October. The debt is c E600k, and E102k was defaulted on. It appears the initial bill wasn't paid, as mentioned in the Business Post above, but an agreeement was made with x repayments, the first of which was defaulted.
I'll stand corrected, obviously, if necessary. I wasn't there myself.
pineapple stu
23/08/2006, 1:01 PM
I stand corrected so...
From unison.ie (Irish Independent)
Shelbourne football club has been given until the beginning of October to pay outstanding taxes to the Revenue Commissioners
Revenue took action to shut down the club after the company behind it failed to pay what it owed to the taxman.
The club has already paid €600,000 this year, but the High Court heard today €104,000 is still outstanding.
Mr Justice Thomas Smyth adjourned the matter until October 2nd and warned that the money owed should be organised by then or the club would have to face the consequences.
Speaking afterwards, Shelbourne owner Ollie Byrne said the money would be found as soon as further clarification was received from the Revenue about the club's exact liability.
Jerry The Saint
23/08/2006, 1:08 PM
Speaking afterwards, Shelbourne owner Ollie Byrne said the money would be found as soon as further clarification was received from the Revenue about the club's exact liability.
Liability's €704,000 this year, Ollie. You owe a further €104,000. Pay the man.
Hopefully Niall Quinn can bring his winning team back over from Sunderland - afterall Shels are the only team they can beat
Student Mullet
23/08/2006, 1:23 PM
Shels' lawyer made 3 basic points.
1. Shels have plenty of assets so the revenue need not worry. The club is currently restructuring and will have the money soon.
2. The other creditors oppose the order.
3. There was a technacality in relation to the winding up order being delivered. He said that an order received when the courts are on holliday can be treated as though it was received on the first day back from hollidays, i.e. in October.
The revenue lawyer was having none of it and strongly opposed these points but the Judge agreed with Shelbourne on the third point and postponed untill 2nd October and said Shels will have to have found the money by then.
John83
23/08/2006, 1:27 PM
Shels' lawyer made 3 basic points.
1. Shels have plenty of assets so the revenue need not worry. The club is currently restructuring and will have the money soon.
2. The other creditors oppose the order.
3. There was a technacality in relation to the winding up order being delivered. He said that an order received when the courts are on holliday can be treated as though it was received on the first day back from hollidays, i.e. in October.
The revenue lawyer was having none of it and strongly opposed these points but the Judge agreed with Shelbourne on the third point and postponed untill 2nd October and said Shels will have to have found the money by then.
Minor correction on the third one. The judge said that the order was treated as being received today.
I'm not sure of this stuff about Ollie having paid off €600k. That means that Ollie paid up €600k, and then defaulted on the first installment of a total of €104k? Still, if the Indo have it like that, I guess they must have checked their facts. Sorry for the confusion here, it was noisy in the courtroom, and everyone was speaking away from us!
DmanDmythDledge
23/08/2006, 2:42 PM
3. There was a technacality in relation to the winding up order being delivered. He said that an order received when the courts are on holliday can be treated as though it was received on the first day back from hollidays, i.e. in October.
The revenue lawyer was having none of it and strongly opposed these points but the Judge agreed with Shelbourne on the third point and postponed untill 2nd October and said Shels will have to have found the money by then.
That's ridiculous. I'd guess that Oily knew that when he decided not to pay the revenue.
John83
23/08/2006, 2:45 PM
That's ridiculous. I'd guess that Oily knew that when he decided not to pay the revenue.
I doubt it. His lawyer was openly admitting that they're seriously stuck for cash - it's just the Tolka lease is a big enough asset to keep their necks dry.
DmanDmythDledge
23/08/2006, 2:48 PM
I doubt it. His lawyer was openly admitting that they're seriously stuck for cash - it's just the Tolka lease is a big enough asset to keep their necks dry.
So does that mean if they can't pay their bills they just sell their lease on Tolka?
Schumi
23/08/2006, 2:52 PM
So does that mean if they can't pay their bills they just sell their lease on Tolka?
Yes. The alternative is to go out of business!
Réiteoir
23/08/2006, 3:38 PM
Liability's €704,000 this year, Ollie. You owe a further €104,000. Pay the man.
So no wages for the Shels players this month then
John83
23/08/2006, 3:40 PM
So no wages for the Shels players this month then
It sounds like a distinct possibility. It also makes a Shels move likely - they may have to move to cash in on the Tolka lease.
OneRedArmy
23/08/2006, 3:41 PM
So does that mean if they can't pay their bills they just sell their lease on Tolka?They have effectively sold it already, having sold the charge on it and drawn down a fair chunk of cash already.
Each time they draw down more cash, their departure date from Tolka grows closer.
Kilkenny and the other charge holders have no real interest in seeing Shels go bust, as they would end up joining the list of creditors (preumably next in the queue behind the Revenue), but its not a given that they will keep the cash tap turned on.
If they are happy enough that there are enough assets to pay the Revenue and let them get the land intact, then I could see them letting Shels go to the wall.
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