Supporting your rivals?

[kdjaC]

posted this on another site may as well post it here as its purely EL

I still dont get this, as seen here most EL fans are supporting the El teams in Europe some for their own ends(coefficents) but mostly supporting the EL in Europe as sort of brotherhood.

I for one could never ever ever want teams Pats play against weekly to win tosses let alone matches, now maybe im just a bitter old Pats fan but i have never seen a Man Utd/Celtic/Arsenal fan cheer for Pool/Rangers/Spurs or any fan in any league want their rivals to win for the benefit of the league.

Now sometimes as a football fan you just want certain teams to win in certain games ie Pool/Utd Cl finals and if anyone ever watches a match on TV they always find themselves hoping the underdog wins if their team isnt playing. But can you hope the teams you play every week win? Its just wrong.

Regardless of EL/PL/SPL can you ever really support your rivals? I mean we play Derry away on sunday i was secretly hoping for some key injuries But i am supposed to as Pats fan.

In my opinion El fans supporting each other in Europe is kind off seen as a group of people shouting "see we not ****". As some way to say to the EL naysayers as a 2 fingers up gesture. But thats just my opinion on the subject not actual fact.

kdjac

[holidaysong]

I really, really hate Drogheda. I despise the place! If they can improve our co-efficient however, then fair play to them! I will be cheering them on in two weeks time.

[kdjaC]

I really, really hate Drogheda. I despise the place! If they can improve our co-efficient however, then fair play to them! I will be cheering them on in two weeks time.

Bah you had the spirit then went with the coefficent thing :(


kdjac

[De Town]

I just support any Irish team playing in Europe as they our representing our country and league in European competition. It would kill me to see any eL team take a hammering in Europe as I feel it gives the barstoolers a chance to criticise the league even more.

[CharlesThompson]

To be honest, I choose the sides who I want to win in Europe. Circumstances go a long way to dictating who I would shout for as a neutral or not. Case in point would be Derry and Drogheda this year. The football romantasist in me dictates that I will support them in Europe, albeit Derry from a distance, although I will be at Dalyer for Drogheda's 2nd leg match. I was disappointed that Cork were turned over by Red Star Belgrade (Zvezda) and would have been happy to see them progress.

As much as anything I can pick particular reasons for hoping these teams do well -
Derry, great support, play good football, great support.
Drogheda, first time in Europe in ages, the way they came back in the last round.
Cork, because I like the city and the best place in Ireland to go for the women!!!

But the overriding thing which makes it easy to 'support' these sides in Europe is so that I can go into work the next day and tell all the arseholes who I work with, that the eL isn't exactly the ****hole they all believe it is just because they are stupid enough to allow Rupert Murdoch forcefeed them corporate football. Let nobody else tell you otherwise, but at least eL football is real and the likes of Derry, Drogheda and Cork doing well in Europe does give kudos to our league. Coefficients obviously important.

Us eL lot are very much in the minority in this country and if it came down to it, I would even defend a Rovers supporter before any EPL/SPL goon who saves his hard earned to go to see one game a year and thinks that that is what supporting your team is all about - that and spending the rest of his sterling filling his Man U Superstore bag with goodies he can come home and compare to the size of his underinflated penis. There are too many of them who I believe really are not interested in football at all. What they are interested in is being 'part of a popular culture' that they have been told is 'cool' by the people who run our world because it looks cool and gives them something to talk about in the pub because they are that inverted they have little else to discuss - "We're gonna kick your ass in the Charity shield you Liverpool scummer" "No your not you feckin' pensioner" - idiots! - when the only people that benefit from the whole episode are the fat cats sitting behind the corporations [Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Celtic, Arsenal, etc etc) creaming every cent they can get their hands on to the utter detriment of the grassroots game that gives football its heart, its lungs and its soul.
*steps down off soapbox*

*steps up on soapbox*
GODDAMIT!!!
*steps down off soapbox*

On the other hand, I seriously cannot shout for Shelbourne when it comes to any game. Europe or otherwise. To me, they are everything that is wrong about football in this country and they can (and do) thank Oily Byrne for that. Some will say that's just bitterness in me, but hey - do I give a sh!t?

[Eoingull]

I'd have to agree with Mr. Thompson's comment...I've often felt most barstoolers don't even like football. I have to say I will always cheer for an Irish team in Europe. It's probably as simple as I'm Irish, they're Irish, and they're representing our league on a bigger stage. To a large degree our 21 clubs are a pretty homogenous bunch, with geography being the only distinguishing factor...I don't see the supporters of rival teams as a different breed. There's no political or ethnic base driving these clubs on...thank Christ. You look at the likes of England, Spain, Italy or Germany...and they're all big countries...they can sustain wider ranging rivalries...be this a good or bad thing.

[Terry]

The english clubs you mentioned are in a different situation than us as they are in a good position when entering europe while our own league is still way down the table in comparision. So, it is vital for all eircom league teams to do well in europe as this will eventually help our own clubs when they reach europe (like Grethna, they entered there first year in europe at a later stage due to the success of the other clubs in the league) and play proper opposition. If Derry, Drogs or whoever it may be get on very well in europe and bring the EL co-efficient up, so when/if GUFC enter europe in the coming years there first match is against higher level opposition than what we are meeting at the moment in the first qualifling rounds!!!!

[Schwalker]

It´s not uncommon that EPL fans cheer for another EPL team if they reach finals etc..At some point it becomes a matter of nationality as well. Not for everyone though.

Minor league fans tend to support each other regardless of rivalries, I´ve been to games i Turkey, Greece, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden and generally the support was boosted by fans of other teams as well.

[Gareth]

Its simple for me, I want the league to do well, I want my team to do well, but if my team is not competing in a competition, then I want our "representive" to do well, both for the raising of the profile of the league and the standing in Europe. The reason Utd don't shout for Liverpool etc,is probably because they are all solid players on the European level and don't see the other teams win as improving the league status as its already massively popular and ranked highly. Your own team cannot dig the league out of the European ranking hole we were in. We need a collective effort and hence why people support the other teams as well as I'd rather see my local rival win then some random euro team that annoy the pants off ye on our forums saying we are all useless pub teams ....

[Dodge]

Teams I'd never support in Europe (in order of how much I hate them); Shels, Bohs, Shamrock, Dundalk, Cork.

Teams I'd support in europe; None

In saying that when Derry scored the other night I let out a little "yes!" but like you kdjac I was hoping for a tight game so they'd concentrate on the 2nd leg. I'm not sure I was supporting Derry but they just played so damn well, they fully deserved it and the goals were excellent. I'm fairly sure that it did reflect well on our league. Not sure how it'll affect Pats though.

I can undersand those who say our league is too small and we need to stick together but IMO european games do not have the effect some here think. Shels had 25,000 at a Euro game two years ago and performed admirably gaining a draw with one of europe's top clubs (at the time). Within a week they had less than a thousand at a game and within 2 years they had a winding up order thrown at them. Has Shels euro exploits helped them grow? Has it ****, has it helped the league boost attendances, nope...

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?

Also can any Bohs/Rovers or particularly Pats fans not say they laughed for 30 minutes solid when the Maltesers beat Shels a couple of years ago? Short term might've affected barstoolers but ask any non LOI fan and none of them will remember it now.

[ccfcgirl]

Any League Of Ireland team whom is playing in Europe get my full support ...Derry winning 5-1 the other night I was estatic .(I wished I was there).

[De Town]

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?
I agree with this bit 100%. Would much rather an all round stronger league with bigger crowds at every match then just your 25,000 showing up for 1 big game then teams doing well in Europe.

[BohDiddley]

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?
Spot on.
Europe is the icing, but coverage is simplistic and always has it as the main event.

[chippie0001]

Don't know how any fan can cheer on another team. Why would I be happy if Derry or Drogs get into the Uefa group stages and rake the cash in make my team even more uncompetitive. What if say Shels get into the CL group stages, the league could go ala Norway with one team winning everything due to the amounts of cash on offer.

Plain and simple I want Bohs to do well, in the league for a start. If teams do well in Europe, fair play to them, it improves the co-efficient and that but i would never cheer them on purely for selfish domestic issues.

[Schwalker]

Don't know how any fan can cheer on another team. Why would I be happy if Derry or Drogs get into the Uefa group stages and rake the cash in make my team even more uncompetitive. What if say Shels get into the CL group stages, the league could go ala Norway with one team winning everything due to the amounts of cash on offer.

Plain and simple I want Bohs to do well, in the league for a start. If teams do well in Europe, fair play to them, it improves the co-efficient and that but i would never cheer them on purely for selfish domestic issues.

You don´t mean Vålerenga I take it..? Champions last season.. :p

[pete]

People can support or not support anyone they want. I would not criticise eL supporters for not supporting other eL sides in Europe.

I pick and choose the games i support shels in but would support any other eL short of an chance to get to the CL group stages as too much financially to gain. IMO Uefa Cup Group Stages are fine as not too much money to make from.

[Dr.Nightdub]

Also can any Bohs/Rovers or particularly Pats fans not say they laughed for 30 minutes solid when the Maltesers beat Shels a couple of years ago?

Does jumping out of your chair, spilling your dinner and going "Yesssss!" count? Chukinyere ár lá! :D

Apart from them, I'm OK with Irish teams doing well and would sooner see them win than lose. Same with the international team. I wouldn't go as far as calling it support though - more an "ah yeah" thing. I still think you can only support one team, if you define support as getting wound up, passionate and obsessive. Anything else is just footballing bigamy.

One other thing about Cork, Derry and Drogheda's progress is that it let's outsiders know we've a proper national League here, not just a couple of Dublin teams that they'd've already have heard of.

[sullanefc]

Now sometimes as a football fan you just want certain teams to win in certain games ie Pool/Utd Cl finals and if anyone ever watches a match on TV they always find themselves hoping the underdog wins if their team isnt playing. But can you hope the teams you play every week win? Its just wrong.

EL teams are nearly always the underdog anyway so that's one reason why I support them. The other reasons are covered in CharlesThompsons post above. Good post.:ball:

[braysnumber1]

Any League Of Ireland team whom is playing in Europe get my full support ...Derry winning 5-1 the other night I was estatic .(I wished I was there).

i was there.. brilliant game, great support for derry and well worth the trip...

i counted 4 shels, 1 rovers, 2 bohs and 3 bray fans at the match.

any irish team in europe gets my support simply because their irish.

[4tothefloor]

But the overriding thing which makes it easy to 'support' these sides in Europe is so that I can go into work the next day and tell all the arseholes who I work with, that the eL isn't exactly the ****hole they all believe it is just because they are stupid enough to allow Rupert Murdoch forcefeed them corporate football. Let nobody else tell you otherwise, but at least eL football is real and............................................... .........................................I would even defend a Rovers supporter before any EPL/SPL goon who saves his hard earned to go to see one game a year and thinks that that is what supporting your team is all about - that and spending the rest of his sterling filling his Man U Superstore bag with goodies he can come home and compare to the size of his underinflated penis. There are too many of them who I believe really are not interested in football at all. What they are interested in is being 'part of a popular culture' that they have been told is 'cool' by the people who run our world because it looks cool and gives them something to talk about in the pub because they are that inverted they have little else to discuss - "We're gonna kick your ass in the Charity shield you Liverpool scummer" "No your not you feckin' pensioner" - idiots! - when the only people that benefit from the whole episode are the fat cats sitting behind the corporations [Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Celtic, Arsenal, etc etc) creaming every cent they can get their hands on to the utter detriment of the grassroots game that gives football its heart, its lungs and its soul.

Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......

Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.

Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.

Finally, I would support any Irish team in Europe as I want Irish football to earn respect and for the EL to earn the respect of football fans in this country. Unfortunately for Limerick FC most of our historical rivals are up in the EL premier and we haven't clashed with them regularly for a long while now, so no problems supporting them in Europe. Hopefully the shoe will be on the other foot some day :o

[CharlesThompson]

Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......

Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.

Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.


First of all, it's only an opinion I have and not something I spend an awful lot of time thinking about really. Although I actually never mentioned the word 'barstooler' once in that post I get the jist of your point but for every eL supporter I know who may have a 'cross word' to say to or about a 'barstooler' I could count 100 times when I've been dissed or, when I'm asked and I say that I support Bohs I am then asked "No, who do you really support... in England".

I also don't agree with you that to have this opinion is actually 'WRONG' as such. In fact, I don't even necessarily think it's right. What would be wrong is if you shove it down everybody's throat at every given opportunity, which is not something that either I or any my eL supporting friends actually do. If I do mention it it is normally here on this MB or on the Bohs message board - with trusted eL supporters if you like.

If on the other hand you think that it is sad and pathetic that eL supporters feel the need to prove themselves to others then that's a valid opinion to have if a little harsh. For eL supporters are the downtrodden ones who get the bad press in the newspapers, whether it's supporters of one team or another having a row or if it just happens to be some bored 'reporter' advocating the killing of our league and the slaughter of all the eL supporters (not too long ago in the Sunday Tribune - also used a certain amount of license by paraphrasing, but you get the point). However I do agree with you that for the most part a large majority of them don't actually care at all about the league - this to me though is an awful lot sadder than any eL supporter, trying to prove him or herself - well actually prove/advocate live football every week which is really what 'us' eL'ers do in these instances.

I have to say, that I would be of the complete opposite to you on the Derry thing. I say shout it from the mountaintops. What Derry did last week was fücking brilliant and it deserves all the air anyone can give it. To a man, anyone I spoke to about this achievement was genuinely impressed. The further Derry and Drogheda can go in this competition the better it will be because it gives valuable back page inches to OUR LEAGUE in newspapers dominated by corporate multinational football - and I'll nail my colours to the mast here - football that I do not trust.

In any case - finally - back to the point about the 'barstoolers' that don't care. In my experience, there is a sizeable proportion of what you might call 'non eircom Leaguers' that are just not motivated to go. These guys when you ask them 'Who do you look out for in Ireland?' will give you the name of a club, be it Bohs, Rovers, Pats, Longford, Derry etc. These are lads that can be persuaded to come to a game or two a season. Lapsed fans or fans that come to one or two games a year just to keep their conscience balanced.

There is a huge market out there that has not been tapped up by anybody but the perception of the league has to be fixed and that will take a lot of marketing euros that the clubs just haven't had to spend. Maybe the FAI might put that right and I have the perfect campaign for them.

In anyway, while I don't tend to disagree strongly with much of what you actually say, I do think that you are being harsh on the eL supporters in general and I think you could do with looking a little bit deeper into the psychology of an eL supporter who goes out of his way to 'prove' the league to others and the reasons why he feels the need to do so.

Btw, I don't count debating it on this MB to be out of bounds as such.

[Anto McC]

We have a common enemy!

[kdjaC]

Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......



Im intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter :)

But spot on, why do so many care about people who DONT go to live games, nothing on this earth will change that barring one €300 day trip to the UK once every few years. leave them to watch football on tv. I get abuse in work for going to the EL but i really couldnt give a **** what these people say.

I have brought goals in for some to see ie O Connors vs Bray, Deerys vs everyone but thats just cos they wont see them anywhere else and they are cracking goals in any league.

kdjac

[BohDiddley]

Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......
Fair analysis. Unfortunately, Irish fans of EPL, or fans of tellyball, or Irish sports media, or just Irish people generally, are simply too ignorant to care about the game played in actuality in front of their eyes. It is not part of their universe.
So you're right: there's no point in poking them with a stick. Better to grit yer teeth and let the FAI or whoever go on a charm offensive.
Think the Spillane ignorance is more a case of a GAA supremacist in full cry, with no one to check him. Spillane for me is the ultimate expression of the type of thick who thinks just being Irish or 'Gaelic' makes one a better human being.

[DmanDmythDledge]

But spot on, why do so many care about people who DONT go to live games, nothing on this earth will change that barring one €300 day trip to the UK once every few years.
People care about people who don't go to games as every fan in the Eircom League wants to see attendences rise. By getting them to rise you have to entice people that don't go to games to go, i.e. the barstoolers. The only way I feel this can happen is if Eircom League clubs can maintain thier success in Europe, build on it and to qualify for the 1st round proper of the CL and UEFA Cup on a regular basis. This means clubs will hold on to their better players and attract better players to play in the league. All these mean better football will be played and more people will come out to the games.

[micls]

Primarily i support Irish teams for the co-effecient but the bettering of the reputation of the league etc come into it too.

while i want all to do well there are some teams easier to support than others.

Regardless of the co-efficient i would support Derry in Europe- they're a great club with fantastic supporters and a lovely style of football who we have a great relationship with. On the field i want us to hammer them, i want Waterford to hammer them etc but in Europe they have my full support.

Drogheda im not too pushed about, not a huge fan of their style of football etc but support them for the coefficient

Shels is the hardest team to support and the coeffecient is the main reason i do.

[David]

Whilst I enjoy watching Eircom League football I do not have a particular club that I support, although I like to see Bohs and Drogs doing well. I therefore don't have the sense of rivalry that those who support teams have so am happy to see any of your clubs doing well. However I can empathise with those that do not feel like that as I know that up here when the Glens play in Europe I am hoping they get a hammering every time. Other IL teams I am happy to see winning but I simply cannot bring myself to want them to win.

[BohsPartisan]

I'm happy for any EL team to progress in Europe to a point (not to the grup stages - too much money) except Shels or Rovers. I'd never cheer them on.

[Macy]

Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.
Of course it is. As is Arsenal. They're both limited companies, with shareholders, they're just not listed on stock exchange/ are privately limited. I mean if not being listed is the definition of a non corporate football club, then niether is the Glazer owed United. They may or may not pay a dividend, but ultimately shareholders take a profit, even if it's just when they sell the shares (a la Moores). FFS, even members clubs are corporations, just a different form.

[ciaraa]

Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......

Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.

Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.

Finally, I would support any Irish team in Europe as I want Irish football to earn respect and for the EL to earn the respect of football fans in this country. Unfortunately for Limerick FC most of our historical rivals are up in the EL premier and we haven't clashed with them regularly for a long while now, so no problems supporting them in Europe. Hopefully the shoe will be on the other foot some day :o


good stuff 4tothefloor, thats the best message I've ever read on foot.ie.
(except I there is one Irish club that I could NEVER support in Europe of course...)

[4tothefloor]

I have to say, that I would be of the complete opposite to you on the Derry thing. I say shout it from the mountaintops. What Derry did last week was fücking brilliant and it deserves all the air anyone can give it. To a man, anyone I spoke to about this achievement was genuinely impressed. The further Derry and Drogheda can go in this competition the better it will be because it gives valuable back page inches to OUR LEAGUE
You wouldn't be the complete opposite to me 'cos I agree with you. What I'm saying is shout all you like from the mountaintops about Derry, but just don't do it while giving the fingers to barstoolers. Forget about the barstoolers/naysayers....


Think the Spillane ignorance is more a case of a GAA supremacist in full cry, with no one to check him. Spillane for me is the ultimate expression of the type of thick who thinks just being Irish or 'Gaelic' makes one a better human being.
He was at it again Sunday night, not once but about 3 times. They were on about in-your-face aggressiveness shown by players to each other. He made a reference to it creeping into pukeball from 'other sports' and then John O'Mahoney put him out of his misery by saying 'soccer'. At the end of the show they showed a clip of the Dublin manager facing alot of media outside the dressing rooms and Pat quips "Unlike Jose or Rafa he's not getting paid a penny for it". I mean what a bo||ox :rolleyes: I'd love to see himself and Roddy Collins have an arguement.....


good stuff 4tothefloor, thats the best message I've ever read on foot.ie.
Why thank you ciaraa :)


Of course it is. As is Arsenal. They're both limited companies, with shareholders, they're just not listed on stock exchange/ are privately limited. I mean if not being listed is the definition of a non corporate football club, then niether is the Glazer owed United. They may or may not pay a dividend, but ultimately shareholders take a profit, even if it's just when they sell the shares (a la Moores). FFS, even members clubs are corporations, just a different form.

I don't agree. Liverpool's main focus is not posting a profit, but re-investing in the team and running the football club. They are not aggressively seeking profits like say Man Utd/Real Madrid have over the last years. They haven't posted a profit in a long time and what shareholders are there are not in it for profit! David Moores certainly isn't, and when he eventually sells up he will be leaving with a loss but a lot of great memories. Liverpool wouldn't be looking for investors or a takeover if they were a profit making machine. And they are only investing what they can afford thus the unspectacular summer signings. Unlike other clubs who are paying stupid money for over-rated players. Liverpool is a traditionally run football club and a breath of fresh air amidst the Man Utd's/Chelsea's/Real Madrid's and I for one am proud to support them. But back on topic.......

[dcfcsteve]

I don't agree. Liverpool's main focus is not posting a profit, but re-investing in the team and running the football club. They are not aggressively seeking profits like say Man Utd/Real Madrid have over the last years. They haven't posted a profit in a long time and what shareholders are there are not in it for profit! David Moores certainly isn't, and when he eventually sells up he will be leaving with a loss but a lot of great memories. Liverpool wouldn't be looking for investors or a takeover if they were a profit making machine. And they are only investing what they can afford thus the unspectacular summer signings. Unlike other clubs who are paying stupid money for over-rated players. Liverpool is a traditionally run football club and a breath of fresh air amidst the Man Utd's/Chelsea's/Real Madrid's and I for one am proud to support them. But back on topic.......

But why do you support Liverpool.....? :confused:

[mypost]

I still dont get this,

Regardless of EL/PL/SPL can you ever really support your rivals? I mean we play Derry away on sunday i was secretly hoping for some key injuries But i am supposed to as Pats fan.

You really thought a poor Pats side would trouble Derry's 100% record at home?? Mad!! :rolleyes:

I support all the league's sides in European comps only, bar Bohs. The reason the league's fans support them is for the sake of the league's credibility. Nobody wants to see a return to the days when our clubs lose to teams from Moldova, and the likes of Finn Harps lose 0-12 away in Europe. The more results our clubs get in Europe, benefits the league in terms of it's image, profile, and allows other clubs in later seasons to get more favourable draws in the competitions. Hoping teams struggle in Europe because they play you next, is incredibly stupid and selfish, and likely to backfire when you come up against them in the league.

[Marked Man]

Liverpool's main focus is not posting a profit, but re-investing in the team and running the football club. They are not aggressively seeking profits like say Man Utd/Real Madrid have over the last years. They haven't posted a profit in a long time and what shareholders are there are not in it for profit! ...

That just makes them an unprofitable corporation. Not not a corporation.

[DvB]

Well i for one have no problem in admitting that i couldnt care less how other EL sides perform in european competitions, wheras i dont wish ill luck on them, i just dont care!! oh with the honourable exception of Bohs & possibly Shels who i'd happily see get massacred out of sight every time!
I'm a Rovers supporter, end of, theres no way i could support a league rival, its just something i cant fathom at all!

Koh

[TonyD]

Also can any Bohs/Rovers or particularly Pats fans not say they laughed for 30 minutes solid when the Maltesers beat Shels a couple of years ago?

Oh no, it was much, much, longer than that:D .

Interesting thread. I have to say in general I do support Irish teams in Europe, as was mentioned earlier it's mainly a credibility thing. I was delighted for Derry last week for example, and I hope they get another few next week in the 2nd leg. I also hope the Drogs progess, though I would fear for them not having an away goal. Of course for every rule there is an exception, and for me that is Shelbourne FC. Maybe it's small minded, but I don't care. I never want them to win any match, ever.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Well i for one have no problem in admitting that i couldnt care less how other EL sides perform in european competitions, wheras i dont wish ill luck on them, i just dont care!! oh with the honourable exception of Bohs & possibly Shels who i'd happily see get massacred out of sight every time!
I'm a Rovers supporter, end of, theres no way i could support a league rival, its just something i cant fathom at all!

Koh
So it's only Galway and Dundalk you wouldn't support in Europe?:D :D

[dcfcsteve]

Regardless of whether you normally support other EL clubs in Europe, I'd say the vast majority of EL fans were cheering for City last Thursday.

After all the crap we had to listen to about how EL sides are no better than this or no better than that, last Thursday's game showed the world exacly where the EL sits in the footballing food chain. Our top clubs would hold their own in the SPL, and I suspect the vast majority of EL fans were delighted to see that point put so conclusively !

[Strabane_Harp]

Im about as bitter a harps fan as ull get, i wanted Kev McHugh charged with high treason and shot at dawn :D

But in europe i want City to do damn well, i was as happy as anyone when they beat Gothenberg and thrashed Gretna.

in europe its Eircom League United as far as im concerned

[Dodge]

Regardless of whether you normally support other EL clubs in Europe, I'd say the vast majority of EL fans were cheering for City last Thursday.
That's the sort of attitude that makes me not want to see clubs doing well. ;)

[passerrby]

while its great to see el clubs do well in europe and i would support them all some people seem to be think this is the cure for all or ills. its like painting the upper decks of a sinking ship.

[CharlesThompson]

while its great to see el clubs do well in europe and i would support them all some people seem to be think this is the cure for all or ills. its like painting the upper decks of a sinking ship.

I would like to categorically state now that I do not think that clubs doing well in Europe is a cure all for our woes as a national league.

I do think that it is a step in the right direction for a more credible league in the eyes of those that diss the league and those that are passive to it. I would also like to state categorically that the FAI should target the 'passive' interest i.e. those that would say they have a team in the eL, but just look out for their results or haven't been in years brigade. They are looking for something to be sympathetic to and an excuse to get back. In essence they need the motivation to come back. I think that positive results in Europe will only help to attract these people to our grounds.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I have actively supported the following EL teams playing in Europe:-
Bohemians, Cork City, Dundalk, St.Patrick's Athletic, Shamrock Rovers, Shelbourne and U.C.D. only things like work and ill health have prevented me supporting others. I wish Derry City and Drogheda all the best in the UEFA Cup and I was in Turner's Cross for the game with Red Star Belgrade.
I make no apology for wanting EL clubs to do well in Europe and to improve the coefficient , because it makes it easier the following season for other teams and on two occasions even U.C.D. can qualify for Europe !

The fact that many teams at the business end of the Premier Division are full time professional nowadays has made it possible for results to improve in Europe, as has the change to summer soccer. However that is the only aspect of summer soccer which I believe to have been a success.

Another reason to support your rivals, outside European football is this;- If their winning against other opposition, makes it easier for your team to achieve something in the EL, then why not support them when it is to your club's advantage.

[anto eile]

To be honest, I choose the sides who I want to win in Europe. Circumstances go a long way to dictating who I would shout for as a neutral or not. Case in point would be Derry and Drogheda this year. The football romantasist in me dictates that I will support them in Europe, albeit Derry from a distance, although I will be at Dalyer for Drogheda's 2nd leg match. I was disappointed that Cork were turned over by Red Star Belgrade (Zvezda) and would have been happy to see them progress.

As much as anything I can pick particular reasons for hoping these teams do well -
Derry, great support, play good football, great support.
Drogheda, first time in Europe in ages, the way they came back in the last round.
Cork, because I like the city and the best place in Ireland to go for the women!!!

But the overriding thing which makes it easy to 'support' these sides in Europe is so that I can go into work the next day and tell all the arseholes who I work with, that the eL isn't exactly the ****hole they all believe it is just because they are stupid enough to allow Rupert Murdoch forcefeed them corporate football. Let nobody else tell you otherwise, but at least eL football is real and the likes of Derry, Drogheda and Cork doing well in Europe does give kudos to our league. Coefficients obviously important.

Us eL lot are very much in the minority in this country and if it came down to it, I would even defend a Rovers supporter before any EPL/SPL goon who saves his hard earned to go to see one game a year and thinks that that is what supporting your team is all about - that and spending the rest of his sterling filling his Man U Superstore bag with goodies he can come home and compare to the size of his underinflated penis. There are too many of them who I believe really are not interested in football at all. What they are interested in is being 'part of a popular culture' that they have been told is 'cool' by the people who run our world because it looks cool and gives them something to talk about in the pub because they are that inverted they have little else to discuss - "We're gonna kick your ass in the Charity shield you Liverpool scummer" "No your not you feckin' pensioner" - idiots! - when the only people that benefit from the whole episode are the fat cats sitting behind the corporations [Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Celtic, Arsenal, etc etc) creaming every cent they can get their hands on to the utter detriment of the grassroots game that gives football its heart, its lungs and its soul.
*steps down off soapbox*

*steps up on soapbox*
GODDAMIT!!!
*steps down off soapbox*

On the other hand, I seriously cannot shout for Shelbourne when it comes to any game. Europe or otherwise. To me, they are everything that is wrong about football in this country and they can (and do) thank Oily Byrne for that. Some will say that's just bitterness in me, but hey - do I give a sh!t?


agree with that.
though id add bohez and pats to the el clubs i dont "support"/wish well in europe

[Paddyfield]

There's a healthy "we're a bigger club than ye" rivalry going on between Galway United and Sligo Rovers fot the last few decades but when they played in Europe in the 1990's, I wished them well. When Sligo beat some Maltese club, I know 2 GUFC fans who travelled to the Showgrounds to support them.

Also, when St Pat's played in Parkhead, I was roaring at the TV in support of St Pat's when they drew with Celtic. Any other time, I'd be leaning towards Celtic.

Likewise, I hoped Gretna would win the 2006 Scottish Cup Final. A few weeks later, I was hoping Derry City would kick the $h!t out of them anf they did.


.

[nshoop]

This is what's wrong with our league,we're already a relatively small and struggling organisation that gets stick and abuse that we all rightfully complain about and defend against and then you hear loi fans wishing other teams lose in europe?What the f*ck?Can you people above this not see the stupidity in hoping bohs or pats or whoever lose in europe?We're too small a league to go on with that sh*te.When we're a giant force in european football and get 50-60 thousand at games we can start that maybe,sure even in england most teams support eachother in europe.I can't understand anyone who hopes for an loi team to lose in europe.

[Anto McC]

while its great to see el clubs do well in europe and i would support them all some people seem to be think this is the cure for all or ills. its like painting the upper decks of a sinking ship.

Do you honestly believe "the ship is sinking" as you put it?

[dcfcsteve]

while its great to see el clubs do well in europe and i would support them all some people seem to be think this is the cure for all or ills. its like painting the upper decks of a sinking ship.

Most would agree with you that the EL's problems are broader and more wide-ranging than simple Euro success will address. However, I believe most would disagree with you that the EL is a sinking ship. The league is in a better state now than it has been for 15-20 years. I can't help but feel that you've shoe-horned the 'sinking ship' phrase/cliche in just to find an excuse to use it...!

But at the same time, Euro results are the only available yard stick with which to measure our league. One of the big sticks that those who don't follow Irish football use to beat us with is the fact that they don't think we're any better than their local pub league. When they see us consistently putting in good results against teams from leagues they thought were way better than us, then their perceptions will have to change. I'm not just talking about those who are pathologically anti-EL, as we'll never persuade them no matter what. But there are large swathes of the population for whom the idea of sampling an EL game has simply never crossed their mind, largely because they have a perception of it as being muck. Nicer stadiums will be of some use in coaxing them out. More TV coverage might help them pick a preferred team and keep a closer eye on the clubs. But it's a fundamental step-change in both mentality and beahviour that would be required to get them along. The only thing I can see capable of kick-starting such a step-change in the short-to-medium term are European results.

It's not the answer in itself - but it is a key piece in solving the puzzle.

[dcfcsteve]

I do think that it is a step in the right direction for a more credible league in the eyes of those that diss the league and those that are passive to it. I would also like to state categorically that the FAI should target the 'passive' interest i.e. those that would say they have a team in the eL, but just look out for their results or haven't been in years brigade. They are looking for something to be sympathetic to and an excuse to get back. In essence they need the motivation to come back. I think that positive results in Europe will only help to attract these people to our grounds.

City's experiences in recent weeks back this up. There is what can only be described as Candystriped fever in Derry at the moment. Even with our 3,000 most ardent fans at the game in Motherwel llast Thursday, there were still cars driving round Derry after the game, horns tooting with red n' white flags out the window. The town has gone loopy over the club, and this is almost entirely down to the results against Gothenburg and Gretna.

It's just like the late 1980's/early 90's again in the City, with the club top of everyone's thoughts. Back in those days we were attracting 10,000 to every home game and taking up to 4,000 away. At the start of this season our home crowds were c. 2,500. Perhaps uniquely in Irish football, there is a very large chunk of our town who are lapsed City fans. Nothing had reignited most of their interests in the club in the intervening years. Until now.

Our game against Pats on Sunday had a crowd of 3,000 - 500 (20%) up on our league average this season, so it's having some immediate impact on our appeal. Will we keep these extra 500 fans as Euro glory fades and the season plods on ? Certainly not all - but I'd like to think we'll definitely keep some. Needless to say, there are now more Derry City relica tops kicking round Derry, Strabane etc than there have been for 15 or so years. And that's all down to European results.

[nshoop]

good to hear