The Ghost of Dublin City haunts league

[joeSoap]

Expulsion of Vikings haunts listing League=Irish Indo August 10th.

GONE, but not forgotten. Dublin City's demise continues to haunt the Eircom League as the row over the expunging of games involving the defunct club grows increasingly torrid.

The catalyst for the latest confusion was Shelbourne's successful appeal against the decision to wipe the Dublin City games from the record and it throws the validity of the current league table into question.

Shels' chief executive Ollie Byrne contested the verdict on the basis that the league's 22-man Management Committee, and not the 10-man Board of Control, should have made the decision regarding the course of action to take after City resigned from the league.

The Board of Control ruled that points earned against Dublin City should be withdrawn, meaning that Shelbourne and Cork City lost six points whereas title-rivals Drogheda and Derry, who dropped points against the ill-fated club, had their tallies reduced by just four and three points respectively.

Following Shels' successful appeal, it's understood the League planned to debate the crisis at next Wednesday's Management Committee meeting, with the possibility of the matter going to independent binding arbitration to reach a definite conclusion.

For the moment, the amended table, as it was redrawn after the initial decision, still stands.

However, a furious Byrne has demanded that all points taken away from teams who earned them against Dublin City be restored immediately, or else he will be forced to take further action.

"I will not attend any further meeting and be party to any decision made by people involved in the original decision. They're not entitled to discuss it next Wednesday and it can't go to arbitration," insisted Byrne.

"I will not accept it under any circumstances. Certainly, in the interim, all points will have to be restored and I will be forcing the issue over the next couple of days. I will reserve my right to take it to whatever forum is necessary," he warned.

Meanwhile, Derry City will discover next Wednesday if they will be deducted three points for fielding the suspended Seán Hargan in their Premier Division game with Bohemians, although they feel confident of proving their innocence.

The defender should have been banned for receiving four yellow cards in the campaign prior to that game, but the crux of the argument is Derry's claim that they were not informed of this by the league whereas the authorities claim they were.

A final decision may rest on whatever proof is offered.

In the First Division, leaders Shamrock Rovers are set to lose three points after it emerged that they fielded new signing Paul Shiels as a sub against Dundalk when he was meant to be banned.

Shiels should have been serving an additional one-match suspension picked up, ironically, for the red card he picked up with former club Dublin City against Derry.

These latest fiascos have again shifted the focus to off-field affairs on a big day of action for Drogheda United and Derry who are in Norway and Scotland for UEFA Cup second qualifying round ties against Start and Gretna respectively.

[Poor Student]

Byrne doesn't seem to offer any logical solution to the crisis except "Gimme my points back, I want, I want!".

[higgins]

No he doesnt because as he pointed out its for the 22 (now 21) EL teams to decide on.

They didnt have the power to make a decision like they did and thats what Longford and Shels are against.

If all 21 teams decided the results should be expunged then I would agree with it but you cant have the FAI making a decision for the sake of it without proper debate.

Can anyone disagree with this?
Shels' chief executive Ollie Byrne contested the verdict on the basis that the league's 22-man Management Committee, and not the 10-man Board of Control, should have made the decision regarding the course of action to take after City resigned from the league.

Once again the FAI cant follow simple procedure

[Poor Student]

you cant have the FAI making a decision for the sake of it without proper debate.

Isn't that what all the clubs voted on? Granted it doesn't come into place yet.

[el punter]

This is wrist slitting stuff. AAAARRRGH. Does this tomfoolery happen in any other league, in any other sport, in any other country?

[higgins]

Yes clubs voted for that but the procedure of today is different to what it will be. I dont think talking about whats going to happen is helping the matter ???

[higgins]

This is wrist slitting stuff. AAAARRRGH. Does this tomfoolery happen in any other league, in any other sport, in any other country?

appeals happen all the time in every league.
Just that some foot.ie posters think its worng to ask questions of the FAI when its Ollie doing the asking. Thankfully he didnt shut up the last time when people asked him not to complain as we have much better administration today as a result.

Its no big deal!

FAI done something they shouldnt have and Longford and Shels pointed it out. Now lets see if they go through the proper procedure this time in making a decision.

[Poor Student]

Yes clubs voted for that but the procedure of today is different to what it will be. I dont think talking about whats going to happen is helping the matter ???

It just seems a bit funny to see people who support the new changes insisting on soon to be obsolete structures as a means of furthering their own interests. It's their prerogative of course but it's amusing.

Anyway, whatever way you or he would like to argue it, all I see is a demand to have points restored and it not cared how they are returned or what it actually means to have them returned.

[el punter]

Its no big deal!


We can't believe the league table and the title might be won off the pitch. If you think that's no big deal you've been supporting Shels too long.

[higgins]

Anyway, whatever way you or he would like to argue it, all I see is a demand to have points restored and it not cared how they are returned or what it actually means to have them returned.

I think he is aksing that the League Table reflect the decision made that expunging all Dablin City's points was invalid.

He is looking for the table to restore the points before it then goes down the proper channels and they remove them all again most likely because they didnt like being shown up by Shels and Longford :cool:

[higgins]

We can't believe the league table and the title might be won off the pitch. If you think that's no big deal you've been supporting Shels too long.


Due to Dublin City folding the points for the 2007 season will not be won any other way...

A ruling has to be made OFF THE PITCH that will decide the fate of the other 11 clubs.

Theres no way around this.

[TonyD]

Anyway, whatever way you or he would like to argue it, all I see is a demand to have points restored and it not cared how they are returned or what it actually means to have them returned.

Exactly. As always with Ollie self interest rules the day. Anyone think if the original decision had benefited Shels at the expense of say, Derry, there would have been a peep out of Ollie ? Somehow I doubt it. Of course the real blame does lie with the FAI (again) though. Can someone tell me what the point of having a Board of Management is if they don't have the power to make these decisions ?

[Vitruvian Man]

Higgins since you are batting for Shels on this can you explain to me if I am reading this wrong.

Ollie has objected to the original decision on the ground that it didn’t follow the correct procedure.
I’m ok with that – that’s fine, he’s well within his rights

But, as I read it, the decision is now to go back to the start and follow the correct procedure to decide what happens to the Dublin City result.
But Ollie is saying he won’t abide by that decision.

So he won’t agree to it if the procedure is not followed and he won’t agree to it if the procedure IS followed.
So Ollie’s position is "Give us what we want or we’ll sue" – pretty much the standard Shelbourne way of dealing with things.


Shels' chief executive Ollie Byrne contested the verdict on the basis that the league's 22-man Management Committee, and not the 10-man Board of Control, should have made the decision regarding the course of action to take after City resigned from the league.

…

Following Shels' successful appeal, it's understood the League planned to debate the crisis at next Wednesday's Management Committee meeting, with the possibility of the matter going to independent binding arbitration to reach a definite conclusion.

For the moment, the amended table, as it was redrawn after the initial decision, still stands.

However, a furious Byrne has demanded that all points taken away from teams who earned them against Dublin City be restored immediately, or else he will be forced to take further action.

[BohDiddley]

Is there any way Mr Stokes can be brought in on this? That should keep Ollie onside.

[pineapple stu]

But, as I read it, the decision is now to go back to the start and follow the correct procedure to decide what happens to the Dublin City result.
But Ollie is saying he won’t abide by that decision.
The problem is - there is no correct procedure. So Ollie'll probably whine until he secures the result which suits him (he's secured nothing yet, as far as I can see). The league broke their own rules in allowing DC to resign, and there is no rule governing withdrawing in mid-season. So we're screwed, basically. Any decision the league/FAI make is outside their powers technically, and can be appealed by anyone.

[Marked Man]

This is wrist slitting stuff. AAAARRRGH. Does this tomfoolery happen in any other league, in any other sport, in any other country?

Have you been paying attention to what's been going on in Italy of late?

[Roverstillidie]

Have you been paying attention to what's been going on in Italy of late?

would that be the sports court with stautory powers and a recognised appeals route to the olympic council?

caught - tried - punishment - appeal. everyone knew who was in charge of what part of the process from start to finish in a transparent manner

[WeAreRovers]

FAI done something they shouldnt have.

In your opinion (and Ollie's funnily enough)

More rubber medals for Shels. :rolleyes:
How many dodgy titles would that be in the recent past? I really don't get this, Shels are odds on the win the league anyway so why tarnish it this way?

Ollie is so Shels-obsessed that he has no idea when he's actually causing more damage to the league as a whole. And, yes, I know that it was Deceased FC that caused the problem in the first place.

KOH

[NY Hoop]

The original decision was the correct one. Going back on it now makes the league look ridiculous but of course why would the convicted criminal care?

Hope the FAI/league stand firm and tell oily to fack off.


KOH

[The Sheliban]

The problem here is that there are procedures. Just as there were when a Sligo lad got two yellow cards in a Cup tie against Shels a couple of years ago. The rules stated the tie should be replayed. The League let the result stand. Ollie appealed and won, and then forfeited the tie. No big gain to Shels - just protecting the integrity of the laws.
If you don't follow the procedures, you can set dangerous precedents for the future. And if the procedures are wrong, change them - through the proper procedures of course.

[manic da hoop]

....but this whole problem only started when the league administrators were the first not to follow proceedures by allowing CHF to drop out of the league in mid-season. Any attempts from here on in the throw the book at individual clubs for reasons associated with the above is hypocracy of the highest order on their behalf because it was their messing around the led to this mess!

[higgins]

Higgins since you are batting for Shels on this can you explain to me if I am reading this wrong.

Ollie has objected to the original decision on the ground that it didn’t follow the correct procedure.
I’m ok with that – that’s fine, he’s well within his rights

But, as I read it, the decision is now to go back to the start and follow the correct procedure to decide what happens to the Dublin City result.
But Ollie is saying he won’t abide by that decision.

So he won’t agree to it if the procedure is not followed and he won’t agree to it if the procedure IS followed.
So Ollie’s position is "Give us what we want or we’ll sue" – pretty much the standard Shelbourne way of dealing with things.


Im not really batting for Shels :)
If the decision goes the way of getting rid of all results so be it. Im ever so slightly in favour of handing walkovers.

I am against the FAI and their refusul to follow procedures.

As for you question, I think he means that he will not debate it any further while the league table still indicates that the clubs lost the points.

Id imagine if the appeal was successful that the points should be reinstated until they debate the issue and decide what to do.

My reading on that is he wants the League Table to reflect the successful appeal ?
I could be wrong

[higgins]

The original decision was the correct one. Going back on it now makes the league look ridiculous but of course why would the convicted criminal care?

Hope the FAI/league stand firm and tell oily to fack off.


KOH

The league doesnt look ridiculous!
If anything, its going to help define a rule regarding this crap in the future. Theres only so much 'make it up as you go along' the clubs can take. If we have rules in place lets follow them and if you dont like them then vote to change them.

Its very simple and appeals happen daily in other league without everyone saying what a joke the league is. Wait until the premiership starts across the way and listen to the sports round up in the mornings there always appeals added on to the end of most stories.

I wouldnt get too upset about things lads.

If Longford and Shels had no grounds for appeal they would have been told to **** off. Instead they were successful but yet you all seem to disagree?????

As much as you can say Im backing Ollie because I follow Shels, I can easily point out that you lot are backing the FAI because it hits Shels harder.

Just let them get on with it and we will see what happens.

[dancinpants]

If Longford and Shels had no grounds for appeal they would have been told to **** off. Instead they were successful but yet you all seem to disagree?????.

Why didn't Cork join yer appeal? Seriously - just wondering.

[Bald Student]

I agree largely with Higgins on this. If there was a proceadure, it should have been followed.

Was there a proceadure (can someone cite the rule?) or is it a case that there was no proceadure and there's an appeal as to which committee should make the foregone conclusion?

Shels' and Longford are entitled to take the appeal but it does seem a bit pointless because I don't see the decision being overturned.

[NY Hoop]

The league doesnt look ridiculous!
If anything, its going to help define a rule regarding this crap in the future. Theres only so much 'make it up as you go along' the clubs can take. If we have rules in place lets follow them and if you dont like them then vote to change them.

Its very simple and appeals happen daily in other league without everyone saying what a joke the league is. Wait until the premiership starts across the way and listen to the sports round up in the mornings there always appeals added on to the end of most stories.

I wouldnt get too upset about things lads.

If Longford and Shels had no grounds for appeal they would have been told to **** off. Instead they were successful but yet you all seem to disagree?????

As much as you can say Im backing Ollie because I follow Shels, I can easily point out that you lot are backing the FAI because it hits Shels harder.

Just let them get on with it and we will see what happens.

You are a WUM.

Viking CHF should have never been in the league. How did they get a license for this season? It is in the league rule book that a club can only resign at the END of a season. That seems very clear. Only people confused are those who want to be.

KOH

[Schumi]

club got license cos all was in order simple as that.
Exactly, it's not like they went bust half way through the season.

[NY Hoop]

ok then, the league confuses me. whats the point of folding at the end of the season when the club wasnt able the continue financially? club got license cos all was in order simple as that. do you suggest that a club should continue till end of season rake up debts that it might not be able to pay, players not being paid etc? o ye, that was the shamrock rovers way of thinking that got you to the first division. dublin city might be gone but the memory of sending shamrock rovers to the first division will live on for ever. job done.

You have a memory we have a past, present and a future not to mention fans but thanks for making a laughing stock of the league.


KOH

[Roverstillidie]

viking, what we are saying is you never applied to join the league and clearly werent sustainable, so shouldnt have been let in in the first place.

but once you were in, the rules should have been applied. and the rule is clubs fulfil their fixtures in some form. that rule was breached by letting you walk away and not making you field an amateur side, which leads to higgins:

this is an unprecedented situation for the EL. the rules state that clubs fulfil their fixtures. one club cannot. so the coard of control had to decide who decides what to do now. they decided to decide and they decided to decide to expunge their results.

ollie is arguing that the bard of control have no power over the 21 clubs. my arse, the hint is in the title, board of control.

[WeAreRovers]

Exactly, it's not like they went bust half way through the season.

Or told bare-faced lies about projected attendances at Dalymount - 1,500!! Even the landlords up there struggle to get those gates.

Mind you, I still blame the FAI for allowing Deceased FC to get away with a blatantly unsustainable licence apllication.

BOB BREEN, HOW DO YOU STILL HAVE A JOB?

KOH

[placid casual]

jeez viking your a bitter little man.

the sun is shining here on foot.ie cos of the wonderfull exertions of Derry and you want to bring us all down.

always with the negative waves..

i'm sure shels will take you under their wing.

[WeAreRovers]

typical rovers, still talking crap. it could have been you if it wasnt for the numerous dedicated fans you have.

:D

And the prize for stating the bleeding obvious goes to....

KOH

[passerrby]

lets hope the board of management reinstate the board of controls dicision. its the only logical step. ops there i go again applying logic to the EL

[trevy]

What happens to teams who only played Dublin City once and didn't have the opportunity to pick up points against them 2nd time around?Should they be awarded 3 points under Ollie Byrne's plans.If they aren't it'd mean some teams only played 31 games this season and others 32 which leaves them at an obvious disadvantage.What a farce.Its the FAI's own fault for leaving Dublin City into the premier division in the first place when they were clearly unable to stay there with their tiny crowds and having to rent a ground from another team.They were always going to go bust at some stage.

[higgins]

Trevy, I dont think anyone is saying that the league should end with everyone playing an uneven amount of games.
Walkovers will apply for remaining fixtures if anything changes.

You either wipe out the results and reward those who already played Dublin and lost

or

you offer walkovers and punish those who played Dublin and lost.

Its simple enough.

[John83]

Trevy, I dont think anyone is saying that the league should end with everyone playing an uneven amount of games.
Walkovers will apply for remaining fixtures if anything changes.

You either wipe out the results and reward those who already played Dublin and lost

or

you offer walkovers and punish those who played Dublin and lost.

Its simple enough.
You're not punishing those who lost to CHF, you're giving the likes of UCD, who didn't play them in the second round before they folded, an unfair advantage over those clubs who did.

At least if you wipe out their results, the league is decided by a round robin competition, rather than a lottery.

This whole thing comes down to Shels self interest again. I'll be disgusted if the decision is overturned.