View Full Version : Derry & Rovers to be deducted points
according to the Star & Sun. Rovers to lose 6 says the sun for playing Paul Shiels while suspended and the Star just has it that both Rovers and Derry are in bother.
The league is also overturning the decision on Dublin Citys points according to the star.
BohsPartisan
09/08/2006, 8:37 AM
The league is also overturning the decision on Dublin Citys points according to the star.
:eek:
Ollie strikes again. How corrupt is this league? :mad:
Always thought the Dublin city situation was ridiculous - but I suspect that Bohs Partisan might be right on the reason for the U-turn given past history.
What are Derry is trouble over?
a suspended player as well not really clear from the Star Article.
Raheny Red
09/08/2006, 8:52 AM
Anyone got a skanger so they can post the article up here :ball: :) :confused:
lofty9
09/08/2006, 8:56 AM
Always thought the Dublin city situation was ridiculous - but I suspect that Bohs Partisan might be right on the reason for the U-turn given past history.
What are Derry is trouble over?
Dunno, we have signed 3 players Darren Kelly, Neil McCafferty and Shaun Holmes, maybe one of those was ineligible to play? Kelly was signed a while back so I doubt it had anything to do with him. The only other thing I can think of is that Stephen O Flynn served a suspension lately, maybe it was meant to be a 2 match suspension ratheer than one. But I doubt all this as we are pretty efficent in our admin.
As far as the Dublin city melarkey - that will be overturned again and will run on for a while if the League don't stick to the original decision.
But I doubt all this as we are pretty efficent in our admin.
We used to think that.
lofty9
09/08/2006, 9:21 AM
Dodge, If we messed up then we'll just have to use the good old phrase used in Derry " Take yer oil".
But if Shels want to win the League in the courts again then let them be. It'll just show Ollie Byrne and co up for what they really are.
A farce.
If they are overturning the decision, is it legally possible to punish teams from acting under the implications of that previous decision? I don't know but I'd doubt it very much.
What previous decision. They just said all results were expunged.
Agree totally that its a farce but, honestly, who didn't see this ended up like this.
Bray Head
09/08/2006, 9:46 AM
Can't see how the Dublin City results could be overturned as some teams only played them once and others played them twice. Surely the FAI could have bailed them out until they played every team twice then there could be no arguments.
How can the teams get points back for playing Dublin City? This could only fairly happen if everyone had already played them twice, so what happens, do teams get a 3 - 0 walkover and the points for games they haven't played against them?
I wonder will teams object to the fact that the a club which was audited and licensed only a few months previous folded in mid season.
What can the league do as some teams hadn't played Dublin City twice. The only option if they had to change the original decision is to scrap the 1st set of games against Dublin City. The lack of press release on this and bits of information is also a farce.
Questions
Are the points to be given back? Possibly
Will teams appeal the new decision? Of course they will
Are we set for another long running battle with Ollie? Yes
Also I haven't seen nor heard of any disciplinary meetings recently. There is always a list floating about forums or website with the suspensions. I'm sure Derry have nothing to worry about as I doubt they were made aware of the player being banned.
We've had Sean Hargan and Stephen O'Flynn banned recently so it might be one of those two
Billy Lord
09/08/2006, 9:53 AM
If teams get points back from games played against ICBINHF, surely the clubs that have outstanding fixtures against them get a walkover and three points for each unfulfilled fixture? Ollie can't have it both ways. This kind of nonsense makes Roddy Collins and the barstoolers right, and EL loyalists look like village idiots. Derry or Drogs can WIN the UEFA Cup and they'll still be laughing at us for supporting Irish football as long as things are run in such a clueless manner.
if the results were expunged then surely players couldn't pick up bans from them games.
Results expunged but fixtures not? Appearances etc all to count.
Dunno, just guessing. I'd have made damn sure before I played somebody
how hard is it to link up everyone on a web based computer system ffs!
its 2006
disciplinary committee enters suspension list with date effective
collated against upcoming fixtures
team enter registered players name
red light and sirens go off if he's not allowed play
simple
hoops1
09/08/2006, 10:14 AM
Farce,Joke,a Laugh,Tragedy,disgrace,ballsup,fcuk up,Mickey mouse
Incompetant,FAI,Waste,useless,****,crap,pitiful,am atuer, a comedy,
idiotic,stupid,did i say useless,nonsical,bad,clueless,blind,lazy,slow,
ill informed,out of touch,inept,spineless,:mad: :mad: :mad:
This league is an absolute joke, lets be honest either way this is going to be dragged through every court in the land as Oily will want it his way & there'll be at least one or two others looking for the opposite, yet more negative publicity for the average barstooler to hit us with!!
As the situation in relation to ICBINHF unfolded surely a decision on the players situation's should have been made immediately as these players obviously being unemployed would be attempting to get fixed up asap!? Alas no, and yet again the administrative side of the league decided to just let things lie & make it up as they go along leaving it open to challenges left right & centre! I for one am sick of these 'challenges' which at this stage seem to happen every season at this stage in some shape, manner or form!
I repeat, the league is a joke!!
BohDiddley
09/08/2006, 10:17 AM
If teams get points back from games played against ICBINHF, surely the clubs that have outstanding fixtures against them get a walkover and three points for each unfulfilled fixture? Ollie can't have it both ways. This kind of nonsense makes Roddy Collins and the barstoolers right, and EL loyalists look like village idiots. Derry or Drogs can WIN the UEFA Cup and they'll still be laughing at us for supporting Irish football as long as things are run in such a clueless manner.
Agreed. Obviously.
RonnieB
09/08/2006, 10:22 AM
Has everybody played dublin city at least once? If so maybe it they have to let those results stand and expunge the rest. However to keep results of where teams have played twice maybe and others once is lunacy.
I personally feel it should have been left as is, all records removed, everyone happy bar that tosser oily.
monutdfc
09/08/2006, 10:32 AM
Has everybody played dublin city at least once? If so maybe it they have to let those results stand and expunge the rest. However to keep results of where teams have played twice maybe and others once is lunacy.
Even if they just kept the first round of results, some sides played them at home and some played them away.
The correct decision was made. End of Story.
sullanefc
09/08/2006, 10:35 AM
Can't see how the Dublin City results could be overturned as some teams only played them once and others played them twice. Surely the FAI could have bailed them out until they played every team twice then there could be no arguments.
That would have been the fairest way.:ball:
Terry
09/08/2006, 10:40 AM
but if it happened that way the dublin city players would have been expected to play for free for the club as seery had no cash left !!:confused:
Leave it the way it is, it was the best decision from the start
Dee75
09/08/2006, 10:43 AM
Even if they just kept the first round of results, some sides played them at home and some played them away.
The correct decision was made. End of Story.
I never thought about that, thats it original decision stands, end of story. Anyone got Ollie's mobile and I'll phone him with the decision of the foot.ie jury:p
mypost
09/08/2006, 10:51 AM
Has everybody played dublin city at least once?
As can be verified on the Premier Review, everybody played the joke side once. 6 teams played them twice, and none of their games were postponed.
sullanefc
09/08/2006, 10:53 AM
but if it happened that way the dublin city players would have been expected to play for free for the club as seery had no cash left !!:confused:
Leave it the way it is, it was the best decision from the start
Well the FAI could sort the players out just until the second round of fixtures are played. Then again, if they did that then everybody that was owed money by Dublin City would have expected the FAI to pay them. So maybe that was not feasable.
I'm not sure what the best way to handle the situation is. But one thing is for sure, whatever decision is made, not every club will be happy about it.
Poor Student
09/08/2006, 11:04 AM
Well the FAI could sort the players out just until the second round of fixtures are played. Then again, if they did that then everybody that was owed money by Dublin City would have expected the FAI to pay them. So maybe that was not feasable.
What possible motivation would the players have to try their hardest in those circumstances? The only thing that levels the playing field is to expunge all their results otherwise you'll have a distinct imbalance between home and away games.
Réiteoir
09/08/2006, 11:15 AM
Which teams played Dublin City where in Series 1:
At Home
Cork
Longford
Shelbourne
Bray
Waterford
Away
Derry
Drogheda
Sligo
Bohemians
St Pats
UCD
Dodge
09/08/2006, 11:17 AM
BTW I tend to agree with Ollie on this. Award a 3-0 win for each game not played.
Red&White
09/08/2006, 11:31 AM
For ****s sake! This league is a bloody joke. Just when everything seems to be going well, those in charge manage to **** things up again. I don't know why I bother, I really don't.
hoops1
09/08/2006, 11:32 AM
I hate to ask a stupid question but i will
Will anyone lose there jobs over this mess?
Poor Student
09/08/2006, 11:45 AM
BTW I tend to agree with Ollie on this. Award a 3-0 win for each game not played.
And how is that fair on any team who dropped points to them in the 2nd half of the fixtures?:confused:
Dodge
09/08/2006, 11:58 AM
And how is that fair on any team who dropped points to them in the 2nd half of the fixtures?:confused:
Because they dropped points. How is it fair that teams who didn't drop points are punished?
Agree that the goal difference thing is up in the air but IMO awarded three points for games not played is far fairer.
Also agree that no matter what Ollie and Delaney decide there's going to be people upset, and another asterix champion will celebrate...
dcfc_1928
09/08/2006, 11:59 AM
Derry played them away first - 1-0 defeat at Dalymount. Think it was 17th March.
Which teams played Dublin City where in Series 1:
At Home
Cork
Longford
Shelbourne
Bray
Waterford
Away
Derry
Drogheda
Sligo
Bohemians
St Pats
UCD
Poor Student
09/08/2006, 12:03 PM
Because they dropped points. How is it fair that teams who didn't drop points are punished?
I think considering teams no longer having those points as being punished is not correct. You've got to look at it in a more abstract and wide approach and the best approach is to wipe out the entire record as the team did not complete even two thirds of the season. The approach that leaves the best balance is to wipe out the record.
BTW I tend to agree with Ollie on this. Award a 3-0 win for each game not played.
That is the fairest approach. It does not punish teams who have only played once & means if you dropped points against them you don't get a free ride.
Poor Student
09/08/2006, 12:18 PM
means if you dropped points against them you don't get a free ride.
And if you haven't played them twice you do. Total nonsense. I know the chances we were going to beat Dublin City 3-0 would not have been that likely. It would be ridiculous for us to be awarded a 3-0 win because we didn't play them.
Dodge
09/08/2006, 12:19 PM
I think considering teams no longer having those points as being punished is not correct. You've got to look at it in a more abstract and wide approach and the best approach is to wipe out the entire record as the team did not complete even two thirds of the season. The approach that leaves the best balance is to wipe out the record.
Think you're being a little patronising to say I'm not looking at the bigger picture.
The facts are that ON the field of play, Drogheda and Derry did not perform and dropped points, Shels and Cork did perform (home and away) and got the points they deserved. I have no problem with either option being decided but IMO awarded victories for games to be played is a fairer system for all clubs. You disagree, no biggie.
Oh and BTW nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Shels lose the league on a technicality
pineapple stu
09/08/2006, 12:25 PM
You can't possibly have a system whereby one team gets a walkover in a match which another team is asked to play. It's a nonsense. The best way was to annul all results, as was done.
Interestingly, the rule book gives no guidance for what to do in this situation, so this decision is now also challengable. It does, however, say that no team may drop out of the league mid-season! So this will be back and forth for a while.
What does Fu(kers Are Incompetent abbreviate as?
dcfcsteve
09/08/2006, 12:29 PM
Because they dropped points. How is it fair that teams who didn't drop points are punished?
Agree that the goal difference thing is up in the air but IMO awarded three points for games not played is far fairer.
How is that fairer ??
Dublin City were a mid-table team when they imploded. They got there by taking points off a number of teams. Some of those teams they had two shots at taking points from, some only one. Regardless - they had proven themselves well capable of taking points off a wide variety of teams.
So how the hell could it be fair to just give everyone they were due to play 3pts for a win ?? That has got to be the most UNFAIR thing to do !
Dodge
09/08/2006, 12:32 PM
I disagree. Its not the fault of the clubs that only played them once that they have no chance to earn those 3 points. If any team doesn't fulfill one fixture, the other team is awarded a victory. Standard procedure in most leagues and cups. Why should it be any different for 15-16 games?
pineapple stu
09/08/2006, 12:34 PM
If any team doesn't fulfill one fixture, the other team is awarded a victory. Standard procedure in most leagues and cups.
Actually, in the instance of a team withdrawing entirely, it's not. At all. Some examples -
Aldershot withdrew after 36 or 46 games in the 1991/92 English Fourth Division - all results expunged (http://www.rsssf.com/engpaul/FLA/1991-92.html).
Prevalje were disqualifed after 21 of 33 games in Slovenia in 2002/03 (http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/slov03.html) after failing to show for their last two games. Only results from rounds 1-11 (i.e. one game per team) were allowed to stand.
Will look for some more when I get time. There is a general ruling that after a certain amount of games - 2/3rds or so - that all remaining results are 3-0s (Kazakhstan 2004/05, for example). A competent league - Finland 2006 - tends to catch bankrupt teams and exclude them from the league at the UEFA Licencing stage, thereby avoiding all this mess.
Battery Rover
09/08/2006, 12:38 PM
according to the Star & Sun. Rovers to lose 6 says the sun for playing Paul Shiels while suspended and the Star just has it that both Rovers and Derry are in bother.
The league is also overturning the decision on Dublin Citys points according to the star.
What matches did he play in suspended?
Dodge
09/08/2006, 12:39 PM
I said it was standard procedure for ONE game and asked why its different for 16 or so. Why are Killester awarded a walkover in the FAI Cup but Derry aren't in the league?
pineapple stu
09/08/2006, 12:44 PM
I said it was standard procedure for ONE game and asked why its different for 16 or so.
Have edited my post for that.
Dodge
09/08/2006, 12:47 PM
There's no need to look for more. Whole point is that there was no rule in our league so anything could happen and any decision likely to be challenged.
pineapple stu
09/08/2006, 12:50 PM
There's no need to look for more. Whole point is that there was no rule in our league so anything could happen and any decision likely to be challenged.
Thanks! Had just gotten to the Armenian league last year, where a team withdrew after 11/16 games and had the rest of the games awarded 3-0...
League rule book point is the main one alright.
Terry
09/08/2006, 12:52 PM
What matches did he play in suspended?
athlone and dundalk
Peadar
09/08/2006, 1:12 PM
Anyone got a skanger so they can post the article up here
Tolka is full of skangers!
I think the original decision was a joke because it rewarded Derry and drogs for not performing as well as Shels and City.
dcfc_1928
09/08/2006, 1:21 PM
Did Cork play Dublin City down at Turners Cross in the first series?
Did Shels play Dublin City at Tolka in the first series?
Both Drogheda and ourselves played Dublin City away in the first series. So why should be we penalised because, on the luck of the draw, we were drawn away to DC in the first series?
Our subsequent home matches against DC (2-2 Drogs and 3-0 Derry) were both better results..........
I think already we can see that all of the clubs involved will have very valid arguments.
Theres one thing for sure - its another mess!!
Tolka is full of skangers!
I think the original decision was a joke because it rewarded Derry and drogs for not performing as well as Shels and City.
Passive
09/08/2006, 1:29 PM
As BL said, if they let the points stand then what happens to the teams who only played them once? If they don't give them points it's not fair, but if they give them automatic wins then it isn't fair on teams who played DC and dropped points.
What a mess. And so predictable.
As for us, we have to lose six points because we signed a guy without realising that he was suspended from games that technically were never played?
Sometimes I hate this league so much.
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