Linfield launch anti-sectarian "True Blue" campaign [Archive]

Dodge

09/08/2006, 8:56 AM

A pernickety post as Billy is a rather common forename in Norn Iron!. As others have posted Linfield should be given credit for this initiative. It seems "they are damned if they do and damned if they don't!"
Yeah and Sean is a common name too. We all know the connotations that the name Billy Blue brings up, and if Linfield are 100% serious, a simple gesture like renaming the mascot would help IMO.

And if you read my whole post you'll say there's no doubting Linfield's good intentions.

Chewy

09/08/2006, 9:28 AM

agree totally and they should wear green too ever heard of baby steps :p
baby steps;)

Dodge

09/08/2006, 9:33 AM

:D best of luck...

dcfc_1928

09/08/2006, 9:40 AM

Fair play to them - if the name of their mascot ends up being the only thing that anyone can consider criticising them about, then it shows how far they've come.

I spent a very enjoyable afternoon in Windsor Park last season and I would go back again.

Not Brazil

09/08/2006, 10:00 AM

Yeah and Sean is a common name too. We all know the connotations that the name Billy Blue brings up, and if Linfield are 100% serious, a simple gesture like renaming the mascot would help IMO.

And if you read my whole post you'll say there's no doubting Linfield's good intentions.

Wise up.:rolleyes:

Linfield are "100% serious". There is a long, hard road ahead.

Thank you to all posters who have offered their best wishes with this initiative.:)

David

09/08/2006, 12:10 PM

Yeah and Sean is a common name too. We all know the connotations that the name Billy Blue brings up, and if Linfield are 100% serious, a simple gesture like renaming the mascot would help IMO.

And if you read my whole post you'll say there's no doubting Linfield's good intentions.

Seriously, you really do need to catch yourself on. Billy is a common name all over the UK and Ireland. I honestly find it incredible that you can take issue with our mascot being called Billy. It really does go to prove that some people will use any excuse to have a go at Linfield, although this is admittedly taking that to a whole new level.

Poor Student

09/08/2006, 12:14 PM

Dodge

09/08/2006, 12:24 PM

Seriously, you really do need to catch yourself on. Billy is a common name all over the UK and Ireland. I honestly find it incredible that you can take issue with our mascot being called Billy. It really does go to prove that some people will use any excuse to have a go at Linfield, although this is admittedly taking that to a whole new level.
Relax FFS, I have no problem with Linfield and have been to several games in Windsor. I was just making the point that SOME people may have a problem with the name, Billy Blue.

pineapple stu

09/08/2006, 12:32 PM

Seriously, you really do need to catch yourself on. Billy is a common name all over the UK and Ireland.
While it may be a small point, there's no denying that Billy is a name with strong Protestant connotations - Liam is almost exclusively the Irish/Catholic version - and that a more neutral name could be chosen to back up the campaign. I can't think of any name which has such a divide between Catholic and Protestant usage, which is the opposite of what Linfield are trying to achieve. That's not to take away from Linfield's initiative, it's merely to correct your assertion that it's a meaningless point.

drinkfeckarse

09/08/2006, 2:54 PM

Fair play to Linfield who have taken the initiative again. I commended them when they slammed their own supporters for sectarian chanting in the Setanta Cup game against Longford and I commend them again and wish them luck with it.

David

09/08/2006, 2:57 PM

I don't see Billy as a problem for a mascot, particularly if Linfield are attempting to remove any sectarian context he could exist in. I was someone who moaned at some of the chanting by Linfield in the Setanta last season live on TV. Some songs were a matter of opinion and some songs were unarguably sectarian. If Linfield at least intend to stamp out the unarguably sectarian songs then that's great progress. By even launching this campaign it is an admission by the club that there are problems and they have the courage to say it is not on.

We have never denied that we have a problem. This is the biggest campaign yet to deal with it though, with the players and management involved for the first time. Hopefully they will listen to the lads they are supposedly there to support.

Not Brazil

09/08/2006, 3:01 PM

I was just making the point that SOME people may have a problem with the name, Billy Blue.

Jesus wept.:rolleyes:

I think those type of people should worry more about their own inbuilt "problems", rather than the name given to a football team mascot.

David

09/08/2006, 3:02 PM

While it may be a small point, there's no denying that Billy is a name with strong Protestant connotations - Liam is almost exclusively the Irish/Catholic version - and that a more neutral name could be chosen to back up the campaign. I can't think of any name which has such a divide between Catholic and Protestant usage, which is the opposite of what Linfield are trying to achieve. That's not to take away from Linfield's initiative, it's merely to correct your assertion that it's a meaningless point.

But Linfield are a club with strong Protestant connotations and that is nothing to be ashamed of so I see no wrong in having a mascot with a name that is seen to be Protestant. There is a difference in being proud of your background and culture and being sectarian. As long as nobody elses culture and/or religion is treated with disrespect then I see no problem and you can certainly not say that the name Billy is offensive to Catholics/Nationalists. there is a danger of being too politically correct just for the sake of it and if we do go in that direction then I have no doubt that this campaign will fail. As long as we get rid of sectarian stuff, and the name Billy is certainly not sectarian, then I for one will be very happy.

Poor Student

09/08/2006, 3:05 PM

We have never denied that we have a problem.

Never said you did, David. Just pointing out the positive aspect of the fact that the club are openly confronting it.

David

09/08/2006, 3:05 PM

Relax FFS, I have no problem with Linfield and have been to several games in Windsor. I was just making the point that SOME people may have a problem with the name, Billy Blue.

To be perfectly honest, if they have, stuff them. There is nothing sectarian in that and if people are offended by that then it is they who have the problem. If we change that name then they will only find something else to moan about, such as us playing in red white and blue.

Chewy

09/08/2006, 3:06 PM

totally Westmeath has plenty of Billys who are Catholic my dad is one this is a load of toss in the real debate which was the initiative not the mascot , "yes but yes but yeerrrahhh !!:mad:

David

09/08/2006, 3:07 PM

Never said you did, David. Just pointing out the positive aspect of the fact that the club are openly confronting it.

Sorry was not meant in an aggresive way, just pointing out that we have always realised this problem existed. The support is much appreciated.

Poor Student

09/08/2006, 3:17 PM

The support is much appreciated.

Best of luck with it.

David

10/08/2006, 9:10 AM

Incidentally, anyone looking details of this can find them here:

http://www.linfieldfc.com/trueblues.asp?tbid=1649

el punter

10/08/2006, 11:32 AM

Splendid stuff from the Blues. I think DJ has been a great force in taking the game forward, I think he will be influential in dragging the Irish League up to a higher standard of ambition and attitude.

As for the Billy Blue thing - what the hell else would Linfield call their mascot? There's nothing sinister in the name, only whatever connotations you may add to it yourself.

pineapple stu

10/08/2006, 12:32 PM

But Linfield are a club with strong Protestant connotations and that is nothing to be ashamed of so I see no wrong in having a mascot with a name that is seen to be Protestant. There is a difference in being proud of your background and culture and being sectarian.
I'm not saying there is, I'm just pointing out that some people may take an issue (I've no reason to care myself obviously). You said elsewhere that if they do, "Stuff them". Fair enough - political correctness can certainly go too far in this era. But is it not a bit strange saying "stuff them" on the one hand and trying to build bridges/insert cliché here on the other?

It is a potential issue for some people. You can reduce the importance certainly, but can't just dismiss it away entirely. Not if you want the project to work.

Not Brazil

10/08/2006, 1:07 PM

But is it not a bit strange saying "stuff them" on the one hand and trying to build bridges/insert cliché here on the other?

It is a potential issue for some people. You can reduce the importance certainly, but can't just dismiss it away entirely. Not if you want the project to work.

Take it as read that Linfield Football Club's mascot will remain called "Billy Blue".

How exactly will that hinder the project from working?:eek:

Do you understand the aims of the "True Blues" initiative?

As David says, if someone has an issue with the name "Billy", stuff them.

David

10/08/2006, 1:30 PM

I'm not saying there is, I'm just pointing out that some people may take an issue (I've no reason to care myself obviously). You said elsewhere that if they do, "Stuff them". Fair enough - political correctness can certainly go too far in this era. But is it not a bit strange saying "stuff them" on the one hand and trying to build bridges/insert cliché here on the other?

It is a potential issue for some people. You can reduce the importance certainly, but can't just dismiss it away entirely. Not if you want the project to work.

If someone has an issue with our mascot being called Billy then the simple fact is that we are not going to please them as they are obviously looking for ways to be offended.

Stevo Da Gull

12/08/2006, 1:01 AM

Fair play to ye. I have great respect for Linfield and the attitude and manner in which the club is striving to progress. Best of luck with the campaign:)

David

12/08/2006, 10:48 PM

nshoop

13/08/2006, 12:08 AM

The point of this thread was to highlight the good work going on at linfield and instead there is a 2 page argument over the f*cking mascot,ffs?They can call him whatever they want.Fair play to linfield.

Schwalker

13/08/2006, 11:11 AM

One can only hope that fifty years from now people will talk about the "grim past" in their clubs history. While youngsters try to look cool in their paramilitary Ultras gear...(Well, it could happen eh?)

All credit to Linfield for the initiative..

ger121

13/08/2006, 1:02 PM

I would be interested to hear how the perception of Linfield has changed amongst Eircom League fans since the start of the Setanta Cup. I know it has not been problem free for us but I really do think that the image of the club and its supporters has improved immensley. Would be interested in your thoughts.

My opinion of Linfield has changed quite a bit since Setanta. Seems like a well run club with a passionate support that is doing it's best to stamp out sectarianism in the stands. Like other clubs most of the fans are genuine people who are into the football and enjoy going to the games. As we have seen in Dublin in recent weeks there is always a small element that are only interested in causing trouble and tarnishing the name of their club.

Have always wondered this and David maybe you know the answer. Do you think Linfield would have any Catholic fans and if so would they go to the games. I know it may sound like a strange question due to the strong political divide in the north but some people are drawn to successful teams for various different reasons.

David

13/08/2006, 5:21 PM

My opinion of Linfield has changed quite a bit since Setanta. Seems like a well run club with a passionate support that is doing it's best to stamp out sectarianism in the stands. Like other clubs most of the fans are genuine people who are into the football and enjoy going to the games. As we have seen in Dublin in recent weeks there is always a small element that are only interested in causing trouble and tarnishing the name of their club.

Have always wondered this and David maybe you know the answer. Do you think Linfield would have any Catholic fans and if so would they go to the games. I know it may sound like a strange question due to the strong political divide in the north but some people are drawn to successful teams for various different reasons.

I will be totally honest, the Catholic fans are minimal although there are some but Linfield would not be unique in this such is the divide in Northern Ireland. Equally I would be surprised if Donegal Celtic have Protestant fans and Cliftonville whilst possibly having some it would also be minimal. That is a relatively recent thing for Cliftonville though as it was only really the late 70's that Catholics started supporting them in big numbers. I know of a number of Protestants who would have supported them prior to this but felt edged out and alienated, even threatened. As I said such is the make up of Northern Ireland. At Linfield there are obviously players' families who also go to games and hopefully this is another area that Linfield can improve on. It will certainly help having players from Nationalist areas playing for the club, hopefully the club can become something that all can feel part of although I don't see the club ever losing its ethos as a Protestant/Unionist club which is fair enough as long as the sectarianism is eradicated. Good to hear that the image of Linfield is improving down south, it is certainly the feeling that I have got from Eircom League supporters that I have met. Who could ever have imagined that we would see the day that coach loads of Linfield supporters were being welcomed to the social club in Dalymount Park or Drogheda supporters would be coming on to the Shankill Road at the invite of Linfield supporters for a drink? The Setanta has helped create these possibilities but it is the ordinary supporters from both sides of the border that are actually making them happen.

dcfcsteve

14/08/2006, 12:14 AM

Linfield are to be applauded for this initiative. Let's hope it sees a change of songs on matchday. UEFA have laid their stall out clearly on this issue with Rangers.

As for perceptions, I think the Setanta Cup has worked wonders for 'understanding' between fans north and south. Derry fans have understandably had their issues with the IFA and Irish League in the past, but I think the Setanta Cup has made a lot of people realise that we're all in the same boat north and south. We're just people who care passionately about our teams in the face of overwhelming apathy from the general public.

I think Northern supporters' views of Derry fans have changed a lot in return as well. I suspect there were a lot of presumptions made about our fans purely because we're from a nationalist town, and our interactions with Linfield and Glentoran fans have shown any negative perceptions to have been misplaced.

I'm really looking forweard to the Setanta next year, as I think City are going to really come alive for it this year. Like last year, I can't see any IL sides bar Linfield doing much more than making up the numbers.

Schwalker

14/08/2006, 5:44 PM

dcfcsteve

14/08/2006, 10:24 PM

It wouldn´t be a bad thing if Linfield and Derry fans thru their fanclubs or whatever had a talk about promoting the initiative..I think.
Linfield as they are the major "blue" club and the ones that started this initiative and perhaps Derry City, because of its history, apart from DCFC being the taste of the month right now it might be a good thing to go outside Belfast as well.

But I´m not local and I might suggest something really stupid..?

We don't have the same problems that Linfield do, nor does the EL have the same problem thatthe IL does, so why would we need to get involved in such an initiative ? :confused:

There has been a bridge building initiative between Dundalk and Linfield for over a decade now.

Clubs aside, the main Derry City supporters group has a good relationship with the 1st Londonderry Linfield Supporters Club in our city, each group having hosted the other for events this year. Beyond that, why would City want to be involved in an initiative that simply isn't an issue. Should Man united fans join Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish club's initiatives to stamp out sectarianism...?

Eoingull

15/08/2006, 1:05 AM

Well, I've taken a "polite" interest in the Irish League since the Setanta Cup started, and even went to see Glentoran v Coleraine when I was last in Belfast. To be honest, what stood out most for me was the almost total lack of singing...although both clubs were reportedly going through a bad patch. I'd have no problem going to see Linfield play if there was a match on and I was in town. I'd imagine most people inside the ground would be genuine football fans, glad to see another face at the game. I think I'd be more worried about running into some zealot outside the ground.

David

15/08/2006, 7:46 AM

Outside the ground would not be an issue. That area is now populated with a lot of students and immigrants. You ever want to go, just let me know and I will ensure you are looked after.

Poor Student

15/08/2006, 12:04 PM

To be honest, what stood out most for me was the almost total lack of singing...although both clubs were reportedly going through a bad patch.

I went to see Stute v Newry after UCD v Derry at the start of our season and there was also absolutely no singing even though there were a good few fans who were vocal about the ref and the performances.

lefty

15/08/2006, 2:38 PM

I would be interested to hear how the perception of Linfield has changed amongst Eircom League fans since the start of the Setanta Cup. I know it has not been problem free for us but I really do think that the image of the club and its supporters has improved immensley. Would be interested in your thoughts.

Changed a lot i would say. We were all a bit ignorant of Linfield i reckon and i for one wouldnt have liked to visit Windsor Park but since the Setanta and the end of the Troubles id more than welcome Linfield fans down to humble Belfield Park and would like to go see a Linfield match up in Windsor. I couldnt give a **** that your mascot is called Billy Blue or that you wave Union Jacks. Linfield is and will probably always be a working class protestant club in Belfast. It shouldnt move or have to move away from that

David

15/08/2006, 3:28 PM

Changed a lot i would say. We were all a bit ignorant of Linfield i reckon and i for one wouldnt have liked to visit Windsor Park but since the Setanta and the end of the Troubles id more than welcome Linfield fans down to humble Belfield Park and would like to go see a Linfield match up in Windsor. I couldnt give a **** that your mascot is called Billy Blue or that you wave Union Jacks. Linfield is and will probably always be a working class protestant club in Belfast. It shouldnt move or have to move away from that

Cheers for that and you are more than welcome at Windsor anytime.

Schwalker

15/08/2006, 8:50 PM

We don't have the same problems that Linfield do, nor does the EL have the same problem thatthe IL does, so why would we need to get involved in such an initiative ? :confused:

There has been a bridge building initiative between Dundalk and Linfield for over a decade now.

Clubs aside, the main Derry City supporters group has a good relationship with the 1st Londonderry Linfield Supporters Club in our city, each group having hosted the other for events this year. Beyond that, why would City want to be involved in an initiative that simply isn't an issue. Should Man united fans join Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish club's initiatives to stamp out sectarianism...?

Not because of Derry having that much problems but more as an embracement of the idea...As some peeps like to mention is Derry NI:s second city eh?

But the Manchester thingy was actually a good example as there once was a divide in both Liverpool and Manchester

dcfcsteve

16/08/2006, 1:08 AM

Not because of Derry having that much problems but more as an embracement of the idea...As some peeps like to mention is Derry NI:s second city eh?

But the Manchester thingy was actually a good example as there once was a divide in both Liverpool and Manchester

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.

David

16/08/2006, 12:58 PM

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.

I accept totally that you do not have a problem as such but would you not agree that this is at least partly due to the fact that you play in the Eircom League. If you were in the Irish league (and I know that this will not happen) then I feel that you too could have a bit of a problem as there were shouts of a sectarian nature (admittedly on a small scale) from both sets of supporters when we played at the Brandywell in the Setanta Cup.

Schwalker

16/08/2006, 3:54 PM

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.

I lived two years in Manchester so I heard stories...There used to be a Rangers/City allegiance as well as a United/Celtic one according to the oldsters..But that´s history now.

As a matter of fact both clubs was in their earliest stage founded by people from Ireland. United by factory workers and City by sailors from Belfast.

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 12:44 AM

I accept totally that you do not have a problem as such but would you not agree that this is at least partly due to the fact that you play in the Eircom League. If you were in the Irish league (and I know that this will not happen) then I feel that you too could have a bit of a problem as there were shouts of a sectarian nature (admittedly on a small scale) from both sets of supporters when we played at the Brandywell in the Setanta Cup.

David - shut up. We've had to listen to your pathetic gurning on other threads about this.

If, if, if......! Look - we don't play in the IL any more, we play in the EL. So hypothesising over what our fans may or may not be like if we did play there is frankly feckin irrelevant. We had zero problems the 2 times the Glens fans came to town - which blows your implicit suggestion that our fans are only well behaved for want of oportunity not to be. Furthermore - I suspect strongly that broadly the same people who support the club now would be doing so if we were in the IL. So unless they're all closet bigots holding back until the day we enter the IL to let loose, your theory is again nonsense.

David - there's only one team between Derry City and Linfield that has a living, breathing, sectarian problem. One numpty in a crowd shouting something on one occassion is NOT evidence of a PROBLEM. Having to set-up a campaign to get your more bigoted supporters to shut the hell up is ! Guessing what could happen if aliens landed or other meaningless events, such as DCFC in the IL, occured is just pathetic. Focus on your own fans and the current reality - not our fans and what you hypothesise could or couldn't happen on a different planet..... :rolleyes:

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 12:57 AM

I lived two years in Manchester so I heard stories...There used to be a Rangers/City allegiance as well as a United/Celtic one according to the oldsters..But that´s history now.

As a matter of fact both clubs was in their earliest stage founded by people from Ireland. United by factory workers and City by sailors from Belfast.

Schwalker - I don't know who told you this, but I suspect they may well have had both arms tugging firmly on your lower limbs...

Man United was NOT set-up by Irish factory workers. It began life as the works team of a Lancashire and Yorkshire railways depot (hence the original name of Newton Heath). The Irish were involved in the railways in England - but in the donkey work like building the feckin things, not the engineering works.

Man City was NOT set-up by sailors from Belfast either (I can barely contain my mirth at the comedy nature of the suggestion...) City began began life as a church team (St Marks), set-up by Church wardens to give local kids in South-East Manchester something to do. They changed their name when they wanted to attract players from outside their congregation. The club did take on a minor freemason's link some years later when they went bust, but that had nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with the religious/bizarre preferences of the main guy who saved therm financially.

As for 'links' between certain clubs - mostly a mixture of individual preferences, nonesense, or historical links through players/managers/games/mutual respect etc. But trying to suggest that Manchester had even a small percentage of the sectarian history or strife that either Liverpool or Glasgow did (and still do) is ridiculous

Not everything someone from a place tells you is automatically true. I suggest strongly you carry a large container of salt with you to ingest whenever people tell you fables like this again...

David

17/08/2006, 6:39 AM

David - shut up. We've had to listen to your pathetic gurning on other threads about this.

If, if, if......! Look - we don't play in the IL any more, we play in the EL. So hypothesising over what our fans may or may not be like if we did play there is frankly feckin irrelevant. We had zero problems the 2 times the Glens fans came to town - which blows your implicit suggestion that our fans are only well behaved for want of oportunity not to be. Furthermore - I suspect strongly that broadly the same people who support the club now would be doing so if we were in the IL. So unless they're all closet bigots holding back until the day we enter the IL to let loose, your theory is again nonsense.

David - there's only one team between Derry City and Linfield that has a living, breathing, sectarian problem. One numpty in a crowd shouting something on one occassion is NOT evidence of a PROBLEM. Having to set-up a campaign to get your more bigoted supporters to shut the hell up is ! Guessing what could happen if aliens landed or other meaningless events, such as DCFC in the IL, occured is just pathetic. Focus on your own fans and the current reality - not our fans and what you hypothesise could or couldn't happen on a different planet..... :rolleyes:

More than one person involved in sectarian abuse when we were at the Brandywell and there was reportedly problems when you played at the Oval. I know that these were allegedly not Derry supporters but I could say exactly the same about those that create a problem at our games as they only seem to come to the big games. You may not be in the Irish League but you will in all probability be in the Setanta Cup and facing the likes of ourselves, Glentoran and Portadown on a regular basis. There may also be an all Ireland league on the horizon which will mean facing Northern Irish teams on an even more regular basis but sure you keep burying your head in the sand and keep thinking that this is only a Linfield problem. :rolleyes:

David

17/08/2006, 6:41 AM