Linfield launch anti-sectarian "True Blue" campaign [Archive] - Page 2

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 10:34 AM

More than one person involved in sectarian abuse when we were at the Brandywell and there was reportedly problems when you played at the Oval. I know that these were allegedly not Derry supporters but I could say exactly the same about those that create a problem at our games as they only seem to come to the big games. You may not be in the Irish League but you will in all probability be in the Setanta Cup and facing the likes of ourselves, Glentoran and Portadown on a regular basis. There may also be an all Ireland league on the horizon which will mean facing Northern Irish teams on an even more regular basis but sure you keep burying your head in the sand and keep thinking that this is only a Linfield problem. :rolleyes:

David - let me explain the word 'problem' to you.

Imagine I go out tonight, get blind drunk and fall over, start fights, make a general disgrace of myself and then miss work the next day. If that's something that had either never or at most very rarely happened to me before, and didn't happen again for at least some time, then it would be completely wrong to say I had a drink 'problem'. It would just be the sort of thing that unfortunately happens to a lot of people at some stage in their lives.

However - if I did the above and it was something that happened on a relatively regular basis (continuially getting blind drunk, starting fights, falling over, missing work as a result), then yes - I would clearly have a drink 'problem'.

Transferring that over to the football. If one or two idiots in the Brandywell traded (as you've admitted, it wasn't one-sided) abuse with Linfiled fans, and that was a one-off, then it is ridiculous to say we have a sectarianism 'problem'. There was nothing of the sort at the two Glentoran home games a the Windsor away (and I'm sure you'dd tell us if there was... ). There was a minor issue at the Glens away game with people with Belfast accents wearing Cliftonville polo shirts, who ended up fighting with the Derry fans who told them to shut up or get out. That was fans of another club looking to use us to cause hassle. That's very different to people turning up to your games every so often looking for trouble, as again it was isolated and clearly unique. Also - Derry fans aren't afraid to tell any bigots in our presence to shut up. But all I've ever heard on ILF and other places is that everyone's too afraid to tell the bigots at Linfield games to shut up, as they don't know if they're connected. So yet again the degree of the 'problem' at Linfield out-surpassses anything with regards the isolated instances re Derry.

So - our club may suffer from the extremely odd instance of sectarianism from individuals (and who are usually set straight by our other fans), but this does not represent a 'problem'. You may hypothesise that this is only due to a lack of oppoprtunity - but the hassle-free Glens vists to our ground and the hassle-free visit of 800 of us to yours suggests otherwise. Conversely - having significant numbers of fans season-in, season-out involved in sectarian singing - so much so that your own club has to launch a high profile initiative to tackle it - now THAT is a 'problem'....

But sure, you're right David - Linfield fans are no worse than anyone else..... :rolleyes: Just you keep up your petty digs at DCFC David. I don't think anyone on this site's in any doubt now as to your agenda....

David

17/08/2006, 10:48 AM

Yet another cheap and petty jibe at DCFC supporters from you David. At least you're consistent.

So - are you tryihng to say the Manchester teams were set-up by Irish factory workers and Belfast dockers....? :confused:

I honestly have not got a clue, I know very little of the history of either team. It is your attitude to others when you post that I am referring to here, not that this particular statement was innacurate. As for the other parts of Schwalkers post, it is pretty common knowledge that there have for a long time been links between Man Utd and Celtic. Indeed did Celtic not play a European game at Old Trafford during the 80's?

David

17/08/2006, 10:57 AM

David - let me explain the word 'problem' to you.

Imagine I go out tonight, get blind drunk and fall over, start fights, make a general disgrace of myself and then miss work the next day. If that's something that had either never or at most very rarely happened to me before, and didn't happen again for at least some time, then it would be completely wrong to say I had a drink 'problem'. It would just be the sort of thing that unfortunately happens to a lot of people at some stage in their lives.

However - if I did the above and it was something that happened on a relatively regular basis (continuially getting blind drunk, starting fights, falling over, missing work as a result), then yes - I would clearly have a drink 'problem'.

Transferring that over to the football. If one or two idiots in the Brandywell traded (as you've admitted, it wasn't one-sided) abuse with Linfiled fans, and that was a one-off, then it is ridiculous to say we have a sectarianism 'problem'. There was nothing of the sort at the two Glentoran home games a the Windsor away (and I'm sure you'dd tell us if there was... ). There was a minor issue at the Glens away game with people with Belfast accents wearing Cliftonville polo shirts, who ended up fighting with the Derry fans who told them to shut up or get out. That was fans of another club looking to use us to cause hassle. That's very different to people turning up to your games every so often looking for trouble, as again it was isolated and clearly unique. Also - Derry fans aren't afraid to tell any bigots in our presence to shut up. But all I've ever heard on ILF and other places is that everyone's too afraid to tell the bigots at Linfield games to shut up, as they don't know if they're connected. So yet again the degree of the 'problem' at Linfield out-surpassses anything with regards the isolated instances re Derry.

So - our club may suffer from the extremely odd instance of sectarianism from individuals (and who are usually set straight by our other fans), but this does not represent a 'problem'. You may hypothesise that this is only due to a lack of oppoprtunity - but the hassle-free Glens vists to our ground and the hassle-free visit of 800 of us to yours suggests otherwise. Conversely - having significant numbers of fans season-in, season-out involved in sectarian singing - so much so that your own club has to launch a high profile initiative to tackle it - now THAT is a 'problem'....

But sure, you're right David - Linfield fans are no worse than anyone else..... :rolleyes: Just you keep up your petty digs at DCFC David. I don't think anyone on this site's in any doubt now as to your agenda....

What is that agenda. I have no problem whatsoever with Derry City. They are of little importance to me, I really could not care less how well or otherwise you do. What I do have a problem with is at times the attitude of some Derry City supporters and I think I have documented those problems very well.

As for the other things in your post. At Windsor it was DCFC members only allowed to attend the away end. I can guarantee that if our support was ever restricted to members only then we too would not have any problem with sectarianism. As I have stated many times, both here and elsewhere, your supporters were a credit to your club, city and the Eircom League as a whole that night. Out of the other 3 games against Irish League opposition in the Setanta there were problems at at least two of them (whether down to genuine Derry City fans or not, they were amongst your support). Therefore is it not a fair assumption that if you were playing such teams on a more regular basis then the problem could well be more apparent?

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 11:24 AM

What is that agenda. I have no problem whatsoever with Derry City. They are of little importance to me, I really could not care less how well or otherwise you do. What I do have a problem with is at times the attitude of some Derry City supporters and I think I have documented those problems very well.

I strongly suspect any impartial observer reading your posts and watching you turn inoccuous threads (NI passports, Irish Cup Final..) into attacked on DCFC supporters out of the blue may well disagree. And for a man who cares little for our club, you devote an awful lot of your time and energy on this site discussing/discrediting us.

As for the other things in your post. At Windsor it was DCFC members only allowed to attend the away end. I can guarantee that if our support was ever restricted to members only then we too would not have any problem with sectarianism.

The Linfield support at the game in the Brandywell was strictly restricted to members - but you yourself admit that Linfield fans were involved in trading insults with some individual Derry fans. So on the one hand you tar our club on the basis of a few isolated individuals, and also claim that any good behaviour on our part is purely down to restricted tickets. Then on the other hand you ignore the actions your own individuals when they ARE members of your official suppport !! How can you say you'd have no problems if it was members only, when you clearly did at a memebrs only event ! And events of a sufficient nature for you to tar my club over them. What's good for the goose....

As I have stated many times, both here and elsewhere, your supporters were a credit to your club, city and the Eircom League as a whole that night. Out of the other 3 games against Irish League opposition in the Setanta there were problems at at least two of them (whether down to genuine Derry City fans or not, they were amongst your support).

I've told you clearly what happened at the Glens game. That was clearly a freakish incident, and nothing to do with fans of our club.

As for you saying we have a problem due to a couple of idiots trading insults with your fans, as I've explained above - you don't seem to grasp the mweaning of the word 'problem'.

The day Derry fans can be clearly heard signing grossly offensive sectarian songs on national TV is the day I'll listen to you on this issue David. Stop pointing out and hyping-up a splinter in other peoples eyes, whilst ignoring the Alpine forest in your own.....

Therefore is it not a fair assumption that if you were playing such teams on a more regular basis then the problem could well be more apparent?

Would we have isolated individuals shouting abuse occassionally ? Unfortunately probably yes. This is sadly happens at all football games all over the world. In the Republic it would be insulst about being 'knackers' 'junkies' 'Free Staters' etc. In England, about being kiddy fiddlers (Middlesborough), southern ponces (take your pick), thieves (Liverpool/Everton) etc. In Northern Ireland it would unfortunately, amongst other things, probabnly be about religion. Isolated individuals sadly reflect both the problems of society, and focus on the obvious forms of insult. But would we have an incident like the Cliftonville fans at the Oval every week ? I seriously doubt it. Even if they did try to come back (unwelcome though they were made to feel), they'd soon get bored with no-one being interested in their sectarianism and go corrupt Donegal Celtic or saome other club.

We have had 6 games against Linfield and Glentoran in the last 2 years. Of those 6, all you can mention is one anecdotal case of individuals trading abuse, and another the fairly unusual event of our support being infiltrated by Cliftonville fans looking to cause trouble. That's not even half of the games, ffs - and at least one was a freakish one-off incident. Yet it's enough for you to hypothesis on our general behaviour to suit your wee agenda. Catch yerself on...

David

17/08/2006, 11:32 AM

The Linfield support at the game in the Brandywell was strictly restricted to members

As usual you do not let little things like facts get in the way of an argument.

David

17/08/2006, 11:36 AM

The day Derry fans can be clearly heard signing grossly offensive sectarian songs on national TV is the day I'll listen to you on this issue David. Stop pointing out and hyping-up a splinter in other peoples eyes, whilst ignoring the Alpine forest in your own.....

Can you please explain how I am ignoring the problem? Yet again you are not letting trivial things like facts get in the way.

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 11:40 AM

As usual you do not let little things like facts get in the way of an argument.

Was it not ?? I think you might want to make the Derry City FC official aware of that then......

So tell me then - how were the very limited number of tickets distributed ?

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 11:43 AM

Can you please explain how I am ignoring the problem? Yet again you are not letting trivial things like facts get in the way.

Can you please explain where above says you are ignoring it ??

What I've clearly said is that DCFC suffers from the occassional isolated incident - which unfortunately reflects the society we live in. That doesn't make it acceptable though. On the other hand, Linfield has something much more regular and endemic, and much bigger than the issue within society in general.

I'm not saying you're ignoring your problem - I am saying you should spend less of your time using isolated incidents to attack us, and more worrying about your own clubs massive problem.

David

17/08/2006, 12:57 PM

Was it not ?? I think you might want to make the Derry City FC official aware of that then......

So tell me then - how were the very limited number of tickets distributed ?

They were issued on a priority basis, first to members, then season ticket holders and then Travel Card holders.

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 1:14 PM

They were issued on a priority basis, first to members, then season ticket holders and then Travel Card holders.

So all to people known to and 'involved' with the club, who would be very regular fans. Yes ?

Yet you say these same type of people could never be guilty of anything like sectarian behaviour. ?? :confused:

Krstic

17/08/2006, 1:22 PM

David, I'd offer you help in digging that hole but you seem to be doing ok on your own!!!

David

17/08/2006, 1:41 PM

So all to people known to and 'involved' with the club, who would be very regular fans. Yes ?

Yet you say these same type of people could never be guilty of anything like sectarian behaviour. ?? :confused:

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

Krstic

17/08/2006, 2:01 PM

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

So what's the point of the travel card then, if not to keep tabs on who is travelling?

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 7:18 PM

Not necessarily, no. Anyone can get a Travel Card, whether they are regular fans or not.

That's not the question I asked though.

Surely to get a Travel Card you must either be, or make yourself, known to the club ? Name, address, perhaps even a photo - no ?? In which case, they're more than just Billy average popping in randomly for the St Stephen's Day derby, aren't they ! They're much more deeply involved with the club.

Anyways - I can't believe you're being so ridiculous as to give a guarantee that none of the members etc of Linfield could be found guilty of any sectarian behaviour ever. As if you know each and everyone of them intimately in all situations/circumstances. Sure - it's only the blow-ins who case problems at Linfield games - even games wit relatively small crowds (and therefore few blow-ins) like the Setanta Cup.

Anyone know the words to 'Dream on Dreamer' by the Brand New Heavies.....?

Schwalker

17/08/2006, 9:06 PM

Schwalker - I don't know who told you this, but I suspect they may well have had both arms tugging firmly on your lower limbs...

Man United was NOT set-up by Irish factory workers. It began life as the works team of a Lancashire and Yorkshire railways depot (hence the original name of Newton Heath). The Irish were involved in the railways in England - but in the donkey work like building the feckin things, not the engineering works.

Man City was NOT set-up by sailors from Belfast either (I can barely contain my mirth at the comedy nature of the suggestion...) City began began life as a church team (St Marks), set-up by Church wardens to give local kids in South-East Manchester something to do. They changed their name when they wanted to attract players from outside their congregation. The club did take on a minor freemason's link some years later when they went bust, but that had nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with the religious/bizarre preferences of the main guy who saved therm financially.

As for 'links' between certain clubs - mostly a mixture of individual preferences, nonesense, or historical links through players/managers/games/mutual respect etc. But trying to suggest that Manchester had even a small percentage of the sectarian history or strife that either Liverpool or Glasgow did (and still do) is ridiculous

Not everything someone from a place tells you is automatically true. I suggest strongly you carry a large container of salt with you to ingest whenever people tell you fables like this again...

I actually mailed one of my Manc mates. He said that I should replace "founded by" with "supported by" and it would be correct..

The Man United to be was heavily supported by Irish factory workers while The Man City to be had a lot of Belfast sailors as fans during their Ardwick FC period...I might mention that the Manchester ship canal meant that Manchester was a major port and that the Belfast shipyards was depending heavily on deliveries from Manchester.

Might this be correct..:rolleyes:

David

17/08/2006, 10:05 PM

That's not the question I asked though.

Surely to get a Travel Card you must either be, or make yourself, known to the club ? Name, address, perhaps even a photo - no ?? In which case, they're more than just Billy average popping in randomly for the St Stephen's Day derby, aren't they ! They're much more deeply involved with the club.

Anyways - I can't believe you're being so ridiculous as to give a guarantee that none of the members etc of Linfield could be found guilty of any sectarian behaviour ever. As if you know each and everyone of them intimately in all situations/circumstances. Sure - it's only the blow-ins who case problems at Linfield games - even games wit relatively small crowds (and therefore few blow-ins) like the Setanta Cup.

Anyone know the words to 'Dream on Dreamer' by the Brand New Heavies.....?

You did state that to have a Travel Card you have to be a regular and that is not the case. Indeed there have been overseas applications for them so that if people are in Northern Ireland when a restricted game is being played then they can possibly get a ticket. They are not, as you stated, members of the club despite the club obviously having their details.

You do seem to know a lot about Linfield, a lot more than me you seem to think. I repeat that I would be certain that there would be no sectarianism at our games from any members of the club. No club anywhere in Ireland has done more to eradicate this problem, indeed I was at yet another meeting tonight on this very subject. Our club, right throughout all the teams, from the first team to the youth teams to womens teams are mixed with all welcome. Our first team is probably the most mixed team anywhere on the island. Yes we still have a problem but it is now a very small number of people involved and none of those are members and I am confident that they will be dealt with. Oh and to use your analogy, there was never a racist problem at Windsor as there was only a very few involved in racist abuse, pretty similar numbers to those involved in sectarian abuse in the home end at the Brandywell for Linfield's visit in the Setanta. We can forget all about the racism aspect as it is not a problem, only a few morons shouting. :rolleyes:

dcfcsteve

17/08/2006, 11:02 PM

Oh and to use your analogy, there was never a racist problem at Windsor as there was only a very few involved in racist abuse, pretty similar numbers to those involved in sectarian abuse in the home end at the Brandywell for Linfield's visit in the Setanta. We can forget all about the racism aspect as it is not a problem, only a few morons shouting. :rolleyes:

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

Lux Interior

18/08/2006, 12:26 AM

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

Steve, plenty of sectarian, vile chanting when Derry came to the Oval.

Or was it Belfast Redmen?;)

Your fans recently have adapted this TGFITW mentality when - as other clubs seem to acknowledge - there is an unsavoury element attach themselves (to the respective clubs) for the bigger games.

Agreed?

David

18/08/2006, 6:29 AM

I'll happily admit that rascism hasn't been anywhere as big a problem at Windsor as sectarianism.

Would I not be right in stating, however, that rascist booing etc of Shels player Ndo could be heard on the Setanta coverage (if my memory serves me right) ? Converesely, nothing at all sectarian was audible on the TV coverage from the Brandywell, which knackers your comparison re numbers involved as well.

Keep plugging away David - you'll get us pesky evil Derry kids on something eventually....

So it is only a problem if it is heard on television? Strange attitude to take or is that an attitude of brushing thingsunder the carpet. I will be totally honest I was at the Shelbourne game at Windsor and was not even aware of the racist chanting as I could not hear it from where I was sitting such was the numbers involved. It was only when a friend told me about it after the match that I was aware it had even happened.

Krstic

18/08/2006, 7:37 AM

David

18/08/2006, 7:42 AM

Well sure that's everything hunky Dory then!!!

Not at all but certainly seems to be the attitude being adopted by Derry fans.

dcfcsteve

18/08/2006, 10:03 AM

So it is only a problem if it is heard on television? Strange attitude to take or is that an attitude of brushing thingsunder the carpet. I will be totally honest I was at the Shelbourne game at Windsor and was not even aware of the racist chanting as I could not hear it from where I was sitting such was the numbers involved. It was only when a friend told me about it after the match that I was aware it had even happened.

It's painful that I have to spell everything out for you David.

You said the same numbers were involved in rascist chanting at Linfield as were involved in trading sectarian insults at the Brandywell. I questioned this on the basis that the Linfield rascists could be clearly heard on national TV, whilst the Brandywell insults could not - which suggests a clear disparity in organisation and/or numbers.

Keep up.....

dcfcsteve

18/08/2006, 10:06 AM

Steve, plenty of sectarian, vile chanting when Derry came to the Oval.

Or was it Belfast Redmen?;)

Your fans recently have adapted this TGFITW mentality when - as other clubs seem to acknowledge - there is an unsavoury element attach themselves (to the respective clubs) for the bigger games.

Agreed?

You know it's been well documented that the incident you're referring to primarily involved a group of Cliftonville fan who got into our end.

Or are you suggesting that a section of Derry fans donned Cliftonville regalia, put on Belfast accents, and then fought with other Derry fans who had told them to shut up......? :rolleyes:

And what the feck is TGFITW ? HAWKA (hardly a well known acronym).....

David

18/08/2006, 10:07 AM

It's painful that I have to spell everything out for you David.

You said the same numbers were involved in rascist chanting at Linfield as were involved in trading sectarian insults at the Brandywell. I questioned this on the basis that the Linfield rascists could be clearly heard on national TV, whilst the Brandywell insults could not - which suggests a clear disparity in organisation and/or numbers.

Keep up.....

It suggests no such thing so maybe you should try to keep up. Surely that would be down to the positioning and utilisation of the microphones as well as the acoustics of the stand.

dcfcsteve

18/08/2006, 10:20 AM

It suggests no such thing so maybe you should try to keep up. Surely that would be down to the positioning and utilisation of the microphones as well as the acoustics of the stand.

Course it was David. It was just by fluke that those involved in the Windsor shenanigans were huddled round a microphone, whilst those at the Brandywell deliberately positoned thmeselves as far away from one as they could.

So are you now claiming that there was sectarian chanting at the Brndywell, rather than the trading of insults that you've said previously ? Otherwise, acoustics are going to be fairly irrelevant - as individual voices are highly unlikely to be heard in amongst a large and vociferous crowd.

I wouldn't go on on holiday to Egypt if I was you David. You'd only end up in denial........

David

18/08/2006, 10:58 AM

Course it was David. It was just by fluke that those involved in the Windsor shenanigans were huddled round a microphone, whilst those at the Brandywell deliberately positoned thmeselves as far away from one as they could.

So are you now claiming that there was sectarian chanting at the Brndywell, rather than the trading of insults that you've said previously ? Otherwise, acoustics are going to be fairly irrelevant - as individual voices are highly unlikely to be heard in amongst a large and vociferous crowd.

I wouldn't go on on holiday to Egypt if I was you David. You'd only end up in denial........

You can twist and spin all you want but the fact of the matter is that similar numbers were involved in sectarian abuse in the home end of the Brandywell as were involved in racist abuse at Windsor. Is shouting abuse worse than singing? Are there different levels of sectarianism. Why can you not just accept that there was a problem at the Brandywell?

dcfcsteve

18/08/2006, 11:16 AM

You can twist and spin all you want but the fact of the matter is that similar numbers were involved in sectarian abuse in the home end of the Brandywell as were involved in racist abuse at Windsor. Is shouting abuse worse than singing? Are there different levels of sectarianism. Why can you not just accept that there was a problem at the Brandywell?

I don't doubt your word that these things happened at the Brandywell.

But yet again you're trying to claim that Linfield are no worse than anyone else - when the facts simpy don't support this.

How the hell do you know what sort of numbers were involved in either incident !?! You've already stated that you didn't hear the rascism at Windsor, so you've clearly no idea of what part of the ground it came from, let alone the numbers involved. You're just talking out of your arse here - trying to protect Linfield by saying 'Derry are no better'.

It is obvious to anyone with common sense and a degree of objectivity that if you can hear a crowd saying something clearly on TV then it is likely to be involve more people and/or be better organised/coordinated than a crowd saying something that can't be heard on TV. You can throw in red herrings like the location of mikes etc, but that simpe truth still holds. If there weren't more people involved in the Windsor rascism - though by your own admittance, you haven't got a fcukin clue how many were involved- then at the very least they were more coordinated/organised.

You consistently try to defend your club's supporters by claiming that others are just as bad - hence why you continually have a go at Derry City fans, even in threads that have nothign to do with City. I'm not claiming for one minute that there haven't been unacceptable instances involving City fans, but stop the pretence that Linfield have no bigger a problem than anyone else. Your fans are light years ahead - hence why you've had to introduce high-profile campaigns to address the problem.

David

18/08/2006, 11:29 AM

I don't doubt your word that these things happened at the Brandywell.

But yet again you're trying to claim that Linfield are no worse than anyone else - when the facts simpy don't support this.

How the hell do you know what sort of numbers were involved in either incident !?! You've already stated that you didn't hear the rascism at Windsor, so you've clearly no idea of what part of the ground it came from, let alone the numbers involved. You're just talking out of your arse here - trying to protect Linfield by saying 'Derry are no better'.

It is obvious to anyone with common sense and a degree of objectivity that if you can hear a crowd saying something clearly on TV then it is likely to be involve more people and/or be better organised/coordinated than a crowd saying something that can't be heard on TV. You can throw in red herrings like the location of mikes etc, but that simpe truth still holds. If there weren't more people involved in the Windsor rascism - though by your own admittance, you haven't got a fcukin clue how many were involved- then at the very least they were more coordinated/organised.

You consistently try to defend your club's supporters by claiming that others are just as bad - hence why you continually have a go at Derry City fans, even in threads that have nothign to do with City. I'm not claiming for one minute that there haven't been unacceptable instances involving City fans, but stop the pretence that Linfield have no bigger a problem than anyone else. Your fans are light years ahead - hence why you've had to introduce high-profile campaigns to address the problem.

Where have I said that Derry's problem equates to that of Linfield? You really do seem to have a problem reading. Your claim was that due to only a few being involved then you do not have a problem with sectarianism. Surely then it is fair for me to say that as it was similarly low numbers involved in racism at Windsor then we do not, nor did we ever, have a racism problem. You are correct in saying that I did not witness the numbers involved at Windsor (although I did at the Brandywell) but I have spoken to enough reliable people to know that I have my facts right on this.

Mr_Parker

21/08/2006, 3:15 PM

You know it's been well documented that the incident you're referring to primarily involved a group of Cliftonville fan who got into our end.

Or are you suggesting that a section of Derry fans donned Cliftonville regalia, put on Belfast accents, and then fought with other Derry fans who had told them to shut up......? :rolleyes:

It has not been well documented! It was rumour hearsay and bull that allowed that story to perpetuate.

I spoke only last week with a Derry City supporter who was at that game and regularly follows Derry. He also happens to be a regular supporter of Cliftonville. I asked him about this very incident and he replied to me that it was a load of "balls". He told me that the only person in Cliftonville colours that night was himself in a Cliftonville top. He also told me that the people involved in the chants/songs were 'well known' to him and were from Derry, but not regulars at Derry games and had no connection with Cliftonville whatsoever. He himself was one of the Derry supporters who was chastising them for their behaviour.

dcfcsteve

21/08/2006, 5:24 PM

Mr_Parker

22/08/2006, 7:25 AM

So you're rebuking alleged hearsay with yet more hearsay.....!?! :o

HEARSAY:

Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

Since that game I have been told that the version of events concerning Cliftonville fans at that game was bull, though some were happy to let it be spun out. Up to the point when I spoke to the Derry fan last week that was classed as hearsay. Since I spoke to him and he verified what had really happened then it ceased to be hearsay. :p

Krstic

22/08/2006, 8:33 AM

dcfcsteve

22/08/2006, 11:17 AM

BleusAvantTout

22/08/2006, 8:17 PM

What's all the above crapola got to do with the True Blues? :confused:

When I see some posters' names on threads on here :rolleyes: - I tend not to read them!!

Mr_Parker

22/08/2006, 9:27 PM

Well Mr Parker your version is also a load of Bull, as the truth is it was a mixture of both.

It was Derry scumbags who obtained tickets for their Belfast scumbag mates and met up at the game with one thing in mind.

And tell your Derry City source that he's talking shi*e because I witnessed 3 people with Cliftonville tops, 2 with polo-shirts and one with a jersey.

Ah yes mixture of the truth? People see Cliftonville colours. Sectarian songs = Cliftonville Supporters.

Being Belfast scumbags does not make them necessarily Cliftonville supporters in the same way being Derry Scumbags does not make them necessarily Derry supporters either.

BTW, Do you know the person I mentioned wearing the Cliftonville top. Good Derry man is he not? I am sorry that he was not 'fashion observant' failing to spot two polo shirts if that was the case. What I do know that he is a good Reds supporter, both the Cliftonville version and the Candystripe version and from a well respected Derry footballing family and I have no reason to doubt his word.

Oh and these scumbags, both Derry & Belfast, are they as "well connected" as I was also told?

MariborKev

23/08/2006, 12:03 AM

It has not been well documented! It was rumour hearsay and bull that allowed that story to perpetuate.

I spoke only last week with a Derry City supporter who was at that game and regularly follows Derry. He also happens to be a regular supporter of Cliftonville. I asked him about this very incident and he replied to me that it was a load of "balls". He told me that the only person in Cliftonville colours that night was himself in a Cliftonville top. He also told me that the people involved in the chants/songs were 'well known' to him and were from Derry, but not regulars at Derry games and had no connection with Cliftonville whatsoever. He himself was one of the Derry supporters who was chastising them for their behaviour.

Mr Parker,

No offence but I was a few rows in front of three lads with Cliftonville gear on.

One lad had a Cliftonville hat on, and the other two had Cliftonville scarves. All with the de rigeur Celtic regalia as well.

They started a rendition "We're the boys from North of the Border" in the second half at which they were told to shut the **** up.

One of them was the worse for wear and threatened those around him with "I'll sort ye lot out" before taking a drunken swing. Amazingly they managed to practice a perfect Belfast accent throughout the game...........

dcfcsteve

23/08/2006, 12:04 AM

BTW, Do you know the person I mentioned wearing the Cliftonville top. Good Derry man is he not? I am sorry that he was not 'fashion observant' failing to spot two polo shirts if that was the case. What I do know that he is a good Reds supporter, both the Cliftonville version and the Candystripe version and from a well respected Derry footballing family and I have no reason to doubt his word.

What the fcuk was a supposed Derry City fan, apparently from a well respected footballing family in Derry, wearing a Cliftonville top at a Dery City match for...?

He certainly doesn't wear that to the Brandywell does he (that's if he goes....) ?

Krstic

23/08/2006, 8:14 AM

Ah yes mixture of the truth? People see Cliftonville colours. Sectarian songs = Cliftonville Supporters.

Being Belfast scumbags does not make them necessarily Cliftonville supporters in the same way being Derry Scumbags does not make them necessarily Derry supporters either.

BTW, Do you know the person I mentioned wearing the Cliftonville top. Good Derry man is he not? I am sorry that he was not 'fashion observant' failing to spot two polo shirts if that was the case. What I do know that he is a good Reds supporter, both the Cliftonville version and the Candystripe version and from a well respected Derry footballing family and I have no reason to doubt his word.

Oh and these scumbags, both Derry & Belfast, are they as "well connected" as I was also told?

I only personally know one Derry man who actively follows Cliftonville and he was not at the game in question.

As for the "well connected" Derry men, I certainly did see one Derry man involved whom I would perceive to be "connected."

Although I do see your point, as the Derry men I witnessed would not in my opinion be regular Derry City supporters,so the same could be said of the Belfast men.