Interesting thread from a barstooler... [Archive]

Vitruvian Man

30/07/2006, 3:55 PM

The Shels fans gave him the thrashing he deserves so good riddance to the fool.

But it does highlight the million dollar question for the Eircom League / Irish League. Our league, even a hypothetical All-ireland league, is going nowhere until muppets like irishpaddy start to support it.

We can live in our elitist little League of Ireland bubble with our intense rivalries and our muck league but we are dying. It's a big problem for us - I have more respect for the scummiest Rovers casual than I have for all the barstoolers put together and I like nothing better than to feel superior to them.

But how do we square the circle - you can't insult people into supporting your beloved team. We need to get into the heads of the average Celtic/Man Yoo sham to make them feel that the EL/IL has something for them. Then their wallets will loosen to get the money to make our league great - but I don't believe anybody in this league has the first clue how to do it.

kdjaC

30/07/2006, 4:05 PM

There are people who go to games and there are people who watch games on tv.

1st set would be called football fans the 2nd would be called people who like to watch football on tv.

No point in trying to get them to go to games as they dont, its a pointless waste of time. Fair enough if someone goes to England to watch their teams they are still going to games.

If you want more fans bring your kids/nephews/nieces etc: As trying to get someone who doesnt go to matches to start is nigh on impossible and tbh they are better left where they are as some of the things i have heard from barstoolers beggar belief (man utd win 22 games in a row then lose one and they all want Fergie sacked :confused: , Celtic play nice football :confused: etc: )

kdjac

CharlesThompson

30/07/2006, 4:31 PM

But how do we square the circle - you can't insult people into supporting your beloved team. We need to get into the heads of the average Celtic/Man Yoo sham to make them feel that the EL/IL has something for them. Then their wallets will loosen to get the money to make our league great - but I don't believe anybody in this league has the first clue how to do it.

Proper marketing.

irishpaddy's views are unfortunately typical of a lot of Irish, English club team 'supporters', and their views are simply just uneducated guff. irishpaddy is not the type of person I believe will go to support their local club unless they draw Sunderland in the inter toto cup or other competition. I don't even think that these people should necessarily be targeted as potentials as their opinions are so intrenched that it would be a waste of time, effrot and money. However...

I have spoken with a plethora of people who have asked me, "Who do you support?" and when I say "Bohemians", they say - "No, who do you really support,... in England?" and when I say that I don't support anybody in England they are astounded. This though is normally followed by "... well I like Bohs/Shels/Pats/Rovers insert eL side but I haven't been to a game in ages". They may not know who the manager is, who the players are, but there is an almost apologetic tone to their voices when they say it - as if they realise that they really should make more of an effort to get down to their ground once in a while.

A lot of Irish people 'have a team' in Ireland, more than we probably care to believe maybe and these people should be targeted in a campaign by the FAI for next season - I say 'next season' as the campaign needs to be designed, etc. But I would say that it would work around targeting this audience with a solid 'Who do you support?' marketing campaign on TV and radio and print media, and encourage these people to get down to their local club on a Friday night.

el punter

30/07/2006, 6:01 PM

Proper marketing.
......
A lot of Irish people 'have a team' in Ireland, more than we probably care to believe maybe and these people should be targeted in a campaign by the FAI for next season - I say 'next season' as the campaign needs to be designed, etc. But I would say that it would work around targeting this audience with a solid 'Who do you support?' marketing campaign on TV and radio and print media, and encourage these people to get down to their local club on a Friday night.

Talking sense lad, good shout.

ger121

30/07/2006, 6:22 PM

Talking sense lad, good shout.

He's dead right. The amount of people i work with who either used to go to games or would follow the fortunes of el sides in europe is quite surprising. If only we could have a marketing strategy to try and get these people to go to games it would be a good start.

I do try to bring one or 2 to games but I think if it was promoted more then they would come of their own accord.

Poor Student

30/07/2006, 8:19 PM

Mr A

30/07/2006, 8:24 PM

I don't know about others but I've found talking up the enjoyment one gets from attending, supporting and participating in helping their local club does a lot more for getting people into eL than belittling them, questioning how much of a true supporter they are of their chosen foreign club and how less of an Irishman/woman they are compared to you.

I'm dragging two people on an away trip to Sligo next week. One of them had never attended an eL game before last year and the other before last month. You've got to bang on positively not bludgeon them to death with how much of a disgrace they are to their country.

Spot on. Playing up the sense of ownership and craic and the pride in supporting your local side is the way to go- not attacking people.

What we're talking about here is marketing of course. It sometimes strikes me that I can't think of any other product which has so little marketing going on as eL football. Whether we'll ever see proper marketing of the league remains to be seen, but we can all do our bit by emphasizing the enjoyment to be had by being involved.

Poor Student

30/07/2006, 8:29 PM

Whether we'll ever see proper marketing of the league remains to be seen, but we can all do our bit by emphasizing the enjoyment to be had by being involved.

I don't have much faith in the rebranding/merging process of the league by Delaney et al (not going to get into that here) but I naively hope that it will at least be coupled with a renwed and strong (if not stronger at least) marketing campaign. I know there will be €10k grants for clubs to hire a part time marketing officer but I mean a centralised campaign through the national media. We're all familiar with the amount of advertising the various GAA tournaments and the Heiniken Cup get whether we care about the events or not. A strong sponsor who will actively help to market would be prefeerable too.

Dazzy

30/07/2006, 8:32 PM

10k is nowhere near enough for clubs to market!

CharlesThompson

30/07/2006, 8:39 PM

10k is nowhere near enough for clubs to market!

Not near enough to hire a marketing manager as such but I suppose it would go a long way at our club in terms of marketing Bohs considering there is fück all marketing happening in the first place.

I would guess that clubs may actually hire professional marketing company's to do some of the marketing for them with this money. Although I'm not sure how much €10k would get from a marketing perspective as such using this avenue. Anybody?

pineapple stu

30/07/2006, 8:47 PM

We're all familiar with the amount of advertising the various GAA tournaments and the Heiniken Cup get whether we care about the events or not. A strong sponsor who will actively help to market would be prefeerable too.
Was thinking that while watching a bit of the GAA in the Montrose earlier today. During the break, there was an ad for the hurling championship in the mould of the Nike/adidas football ads and that ad for Horse Racing Ireland. You'd never see anything remotely like that for the eL (though granted it's got a much smaller budget).

Can anyone tell me what Aidan Doyle, the marketing officer, does? Or has done for the league in recent times?

Poor Student

30/07/2006, 8:52 PM

You'd never see anything remotely like that for the eL (though granted it's got a much smaller budget).

Now that the league will be directly merged with the FAI, who actively sought the merger and sought to take control of the league and who announced a profit recently there's a lot less of an excuse about lack of resources. Perhaps this is something the NLSA should be sticking to the FAI citing the relevant examples. The GAA have been churning out intense atmospheric professional ads for years now. They also ran/run similar campaigns as to those suggested, the "your local club, community, county etc." stuff.

el punter

30/07/2006, 8:57 PM

I would guess that clubs may actually hire professional marketing company's to do some of the marketing for them with this money. Although I'm not sure how much €10k would get from a marketing perspective as such using this avenue. Anybody?

A marketing rookie fresh out of college would be looking for 25-30k to start working full time. Pro consultancy agencies are just mental money.

So it comes to down to decent-skin-man-ship as Dunphy used say. Volunteers with marketing experience giving some of their time and expertise to help out their clubs on a part time basis.

The next big cost is that of the marketing material. Taking out adverts, printing posters, buying radio time, buying online adverts all costs the big bucks.

If the 10k is given directly to a marketing 'inventory' budget and the staffing is voluntary but talented then it may indeed be worthwhile.

On Stu's point. Yes there are non-stop ads by the Irish Horseracing Authority and the GAA on RTE for a good few months now. Decent pro ads frequently broadcast (not the DIY 'Ulster Scots' ones we watched during the Setanta Cup'). The FAI should certainly be getting involved in making similar adverts - though this is big money stuff.

Aberdonian Stu

30/07/2006, 11:33 PM

He obviously knows nothing about football when it can call Shels of hackers !

While I disagree with the generalisations the guy his making his comments in relation to the Sunderland game were unfortuantely pretty spot on.

Shels tackling was appalling, especially in the second half and in particular those committed by the number 2 (the team sheet said his name was Pender but I don't know the lad to be honest).

There was one by him on McCartney that even I'd have given a straight red for without hesitation, and I like meaty tackles.

LeixlipRed

31/07/2006, 12:06 AM

Bolox, nothing wrong with the tackles that night. If you come into a game properly prepared then you should expect tough tackling. sunderland must be used to everyone pussy footing around during pre season because from the very first minute they were complaining about every little challenge. It's not a non contact sport and I don't think the sunderland bench knew this based on their totally over the top hysterics. And the number 2 was Derek Pender, formerly of Dublin City

garykelly

31/07/2006, 9:16 AM

looking out for a teams results in the UK is one thing but going on as if your from the UK is another. We, us, our team ! such a load of rubbish. you can go on and pretend that your doing something meaningful by 'supporting' these UK sides but absolutely nothing compares to supporting your local team in the domestic league and when your local team wins something the feeling is miles miles better in comparision to plastic supporting of a foreign team. Teams in the UK dont give a toss about 'their supporters' from Ireland, that's a fact - all these supporters are is £ signs. Supporting your own team means something - clicking on your skybox - well it's like turning on FM06 and thinking your actually a manager.

EL - Might not seem like much - but it's ours !

rant over !

re: 10 k - this is for a club promotions officer to promote the club in the local area. so community liason officer might be a better description. it would either be to pay for a part time role or subsidise a full time one. do alot of club's already have community liason officers doing this job (cork have one i think) - so 10k would be a good addition to making this role a proper part-time job or at least pay towards the cost of a full time job.or help the club pay for schemes to market itself locally. It's 10k more than what was available for this and it's a start. However I'd be worried some clubs would say "oh yeah er we spent that money on advertising locally" - and for the cash to absorbed into the clubs normal expenditure. But i would like to think the FAI will be looking for barometers to ensure the money is spent on promoting the club.

Nationwide Marketing would be something the FAI and Sponsors should look after.

Aberdonian Stu

31/07/2006, 10:04 AM

It is a contact sport but some of the tackles going in were outrageous. Very unusual as it's not normally a major complaint I would have with Shels but on Monday a lot of it was out of order.

Wiseguy

31/07/2006, 10:35 AM

On my way down to Killarney on Friday i was half listening to the radio and i barely caught on ad that was about the EL.It said something like "watch a match on the edge of the box and not in front of it" which i thought was good.We need far more media coverage to even make the slightest improvement and even though a lot of people are anti GAA the GAA get it right and know how to work it so we should be following them.
RE: the barstollers, what gets me is people who have never been to a game or haven't been in a long long time making comments about it.

Red&White

31/07/2006, 10:39 AM

I don't know about others but I've found talking up the enjoyment one gets from attending, supporting and participating in helping their local club does a lot more for getting people into eL than belittling them, questioning how much of a true supporter they are of their chosen foreign club and how less of an Irishman/woman they are compared to you.

I'm dragging two people on an away trip to Sligo next week. One of them had never attended an eL game before last year and the other before last month. You've got to bang on positively not bludgeon them to death with how much of a disgrace they are to their country.
Couldn't agree more. At uni in Dublin I live with a sometimes Chelsea fan from London, a PSG fan from Paris, and a Man City fan from Manchester. They knew absolutely nothing about Irish football before they came but now know most of the Derry team, the big names from other teams, and some of the issues surrounding the league. I drag them to Derry matches in Dublin and they usually enjoy the craic the Derry supporters have. Even during summer now, they're always checking scores online, calling to congratulate, or celebrating the Gothenburg result in London on Thursday night. Desperately hoping we draw PSG in UEFA cup if we go through as it would be a dream come true for two of us.

NY Hoop

31/07/2006, 10:50 AM

People like that are a waste of space and are so brainwashed they will never understand.

Facilities are the key and honestly think we are going in the right direction there with clubs building stadiums and improving their existing ones.

The results from Europe are great too and show the success of summer football.

The authorities need to understand that letting jokes like CHF into the league does more harm than good though.

When anyone asks who do I support I say Rovers and when they ask what english club I just say I'm not english. As Dolan rightly said you cant support 2 clubs.

KOH

monzo

31/07/2006, 11:14 AM

Good thread. It's always bemused why eircom NEVER advertise the league on TV. They have ads promoting their broadband packages and whatnot but nothing promoting the league? At the 2002 World Cup (not familiar with the '06 one as I watched very little of it) there were eircom ads on right before the panel came back on, and right after they went for a commercial break. Yet not once did they mention the eL. There was a big crowd (I think) awaiting the Irish squad from their flight back to Ireland yet from what I hear there were no posters or banners advertising the league. Football enthusiasts who had just went wild supporting and celebrating Ireland's World Cup challenge in Japan/Korea would want more live action in stadiums since they would now have to wait until the next qualifying campaign commences. Yet no advertising. eircom - whom not many like with their ****ty packages - still should have seen the national-interest that was the WC as a fantastic opportunity to promote the league. But sweet fa happened. (And I think this was the first year of summer soccer - did anyone know?!)

bigmac

31/07/2006, 11:43 AM

aido1895

31/07/2006, 3:04 PM

It is a contact sport but some of the tackles going in were outrageous. Very unusual as it's not normally a major complaint I would have with Shels but on Monday a lot of it was out of order.
Ballox, the only thing out of order last monday was the way the sunderland team surrounded the shels number 2 after he put in a strong tackle and won the ball against the sunderland player.
The tackling in that match was no different to any that goes on in a league match and for you to describe it as "outtageous" and "out of order" makes you sound like a Sunderland fan who went to the game expecting to see the Irish team stand back and let the big English boys have it all their own way !

risteard55

01/08/2006, 8:35 PM

Can't remember who posted it, and can't be bothered looking for it but there was a wonderful piece put up along the theme of the "choose life" speech from Trainspotting, only adjusted to the EL - that would make an excellent voiceover for an EL ad on TV.

Anyone remember where it was?
Is this the one..?????

Doesn't it make you proud to be Scottish?" - "It's ****E being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the ****ing earth, the most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English, I don't. They're just *******. We, on the other hand, are colonized by *******. We can't even pick a decent culture to be colonized by. We are ruled by effete arseholes. It's a ****e state of affairs to be in, Tommy! And all the fresh air in the world won't make any ****ing difference!"

Stevo Da Gull

02/08/2006, 8:46 PM

When anyone asks who do I support I say Rovers and when they ask what english club

I hate that, it's worse when they don't think that your'e serious.

What are the odds of that guy coming back on the Shels site after the Cork result tonight, completely forgetting the fact that this is the first time that all 4 Irish clubs have made it past the First round in Europe.

Sometimes if I tell someone that the league is trying to move forward they say things like ``United,Chelsea or liverpool would still hammer the best Irish team``. WTF do they want??? If you really want to progress you have got to try and do things logically with short and long-term goals and at the moment beating teams like Arsenal, Barca and Milan are'nt on either list.IMO at the moment the ultimate aim on the long-term list is to have Irish teams regularly competing in the Group stages of European competition (most likely the UEFA Cup as if you get to the Final Qualifying Round of the Champs Lge it is a mountainous task [teams from Spain,Italy,England etc] but if you get knocked out you're 1 round away from the UEFA Cup group stages). Some people may see that as an un-ambitious long-term goal but a little thing called reality has to play a part. If (and hopefully when) we have Eircom League clubs playing regularly in the UEFA Cup group stages (with proper training facilities,stadia etc) then perhaps we can look further- we've got a long way to go but we've got to keep up the progress, even if it's slow just so long as it's steady:ball:

Block G Raptor

04/08/2006, 12:21 PM

He's dead right. The amount of people i work with who either used to go to games or would follow the fortunes of el sides in europe is quite surprising. If only we could have a marketing strategy to try and get these people to go to games it would be a good start.

I do try to bring one or 2 to games but I think if it was promoted more then they would come of their own accord.

The Marketing Strategy aimed at these people should start by not having games that clash with the average working class peoples night out down the local. Friday Night games are never going to attract people out of the Pubs in the current climate

CuanaD

04/08/2006, 1:27 PM

The Marketing Strategy aimed at these people should start by not having games that clash with the average working class peoples night out down the local. Friday Night games are never going to attract people out of the Pubs in the current climate
Then offer them good Pubs! - Pats can do that now - give the people what they think they want and make sure they get what you want at the same time. How about closed circut broadcasting of matches to pubs associated with certain teams? (no idea how you do that - this is just off the top of my head)