Tonights Match

[Gareth]

Hi, for those in webland, Shels game against Waterford is available on Shels website both in the form of live updates and audio commentary with Declan Drake, commentary beginning five minutes before kickoff.

Links here:
Updates: http://www.shelbournefc.ie/matchzone/matchzone.php?matchid=9182
Commentary: http://stream.dv4.com/live

Enjoy the game

[sligoman]

Is kick off 19:45?

[Gareth]

8.00pm my friend

[DmanDmythDledge]

5-1 to Shels. Not looking forward to facing them on Friday on that form and with Crowe banging them in again.

[Poor Student]

Waterford have crossed over the halfway stage without a single solitary victory now.:o

[Aaron]

Waterford have crossed over the halfway stage without a single solitary victory now.

TBH i am not really suprised. At the start of the season we all saw who they signed and who they lost and it was clear that they wud struggle

[Poor Student]

Sadly they've found their true level when spending within their means. They may ask themselves where they would be if other clubs did the same though.

[pineapple stu]

5-1 to Shels. Not looking forward to facing them on Friday on that form and with Crowe banging them in again.
Bring them on. Brings out the best in us. Beating Cork straight after their narrow InterToto Q/F defeat, drawing with Shels on the opening day of the season and us newly promoted, comfortably holding our own against Drogheda three days after a good European result...

[DmanDmythDledge]

Bring them on. Brings out the best in us. Beating Cork straight after their narrow InterToto Q/F defeat, drawing with Shels on the opening day of the season and us newly promoted, comfortably holding our own against Drogheda three days after a good European result...
Yes, I agree, but 5 goals. How can you not be worried? True we do well against the big teams, but only at home. Drawn with all of them except Shels who were the only one of them to score against us as well.

[pineapple stu]

What's to worry about? We're expected to lose, so we've nothing to lose. All we can do is bring Shels down to earth a bit.

[BrayUnknowns]

Bring them on. Brings out the best in us. Beating Cork straight after their narrow InterToto Q/F defeat, drawing with Shels on the opening day of the season and us newly promoted, comfortably holding our own against Drogheda three days after a good European result...

I presume your talking about the match last Sunday ?

Comfortable is the last thing i would call UCD in that match ! Drogheda should have had the game wrapped up at half time, UCD played on the break and had a few decent chances near the end but ye were far from comfortable

[Partizan]

Sadly they've found their true level when spending within their means. They may ask themselves where they would be if other clubs did the same though.

Our recent signing, 16 year old Mitchell Casey scored our consolation goal last night. This is what we are left with......kids. In saying that we are putting together a good youth policy, have linked up with WIT for the scholarships and the Waterford Schoolboy and Junior Leagues. Casey recently turned down offers from a number of Championship and League 1 clubs to sign for us. WUFC will be setting up an U-18 team in the near future, especially with the developments of the RSC complex. The money isnt there and we have written off this season but we are now at last laying the foundations with our youth policy.

Last night we had a number of first teamers out; Rennie, Chambers, Browne and Hopkins.

btw, one for the anoraks, is he the youngest goalscorer in LOI history?

[Poor Student]

Partizan, did the board write the season off from the perspective that they feel they would be saved from relegation with the new changes and they would use this season to plan for the next? I've been reading about that young lad, it sounds like a great coup for Waterford and the league. He must be built well to be thrown into the defence against Shelbourne at the age of 16.:eek:

[BrayUnknowns]

Mitchell Casey is only 16 ?!?!?!?!?! fcuk me, he's a big boy, surprised eL weekely didn't mention it.

[NY Hoop]

Fair play to WUFC for getting their off field structures right.

But speaking of el weekly strange that the goals in Europe werent shown?

KOH

[Partizan]

Partizan, did the board write the season off from the perspective that they feel they would be saved from relegation with the new changes and they would use this season to plan for the next?

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The Board was not expecting great things especially after the mass walkout of the squad and the very limited budget that we operate under (its one of the smallest in the League), but to be honest I dont think they themselves expected it to be this bad on the pitch. The new League structure took alot of pressure off Kerley and the Club. We will finish bottom this season but more than likely will be saved from relegation. This will enable WUFC to rebuild in the Premier rather than the First Division.

I feel this will significantly reward us for all our off the pitch structures that we are putting in place. Just in point, we are heading in the right direction but at the mo, we are in a transition period, albeit a very painful one. By the time this is finished we will have an excellent youth system in place in which to build on coupled with the fact that by the start of the next season, the RSC will have excellent facilities in place which will enable WUFC to move forward. All courtesy of the ambitious plans from the Management Committee of WUFC.

Mitchell Casey, the 16 year old was signed from Waterford Crystal last week. He's a highly rated defender/midfielder and a bright future is predicted for him. His signature was seen by the Waterford media as a major coup by the Club and will no doubt will encourage many promising youngsters from the South East and afar to throw in their lot with Waterford as the Club offers them not only a chance to play football at the highest level in the land but also free third level education on top of their wages.

[Raheny Red]

What's to worry about? We're expected to lose, so we've nothing to lose. All we can do is bring Shels down to earth a bit.

Bring it on, bitch :D :p :cool:

[mypost]

The new League structure took alot of pressure off Kerley and the Club.

There is no guarantee that Waterford will stay up, as their results over the last 2 seasons particularly have been very poor, another season was spent in the first division. Their ground is not the best in the league, and their support base isn't hefty either. These factors will be taken into account when the make-up of the divisions next year is decided.

[Partizan]

Have to disagree with you there mypost.

Our record over the last 5 years with exception of this season has been quite good.

2002/03 - First Division Champs
2003 - 6th Premier & QF FAI Cup
2004 - 5th Premier & RU FAI Cup
2005 - 8th Premier & 2nd Rd FAI Cup
2006???

Off the pitch we are implementing a sound youth policy plus the RSC will be a 3000 seater ground complete with training facilities, toilets, disabled access, Club offices, turnstiles and media boxes. We are financially sound and dont have any outstanding debts and our taxes are in order. We have a potential catchment area of the South East.

So on that basis, I'd say we are ok.

[DvB]

Have to disagree with you there mypost.

Our record over the last 5 years with exception of this season has been quite good.

2002/03 - First Division Champs
2003 - 6th Premier & QF FAI Cup
2004 - 5th Premier & RU FAI Cup
2005 - 8th Premier & 2nd Rd FAI Cup
2006???

Off the pitch we are implementing a sound youth policy plus the RSC will be a 3000 seater ground complete with training facilities, toilets, disabled access, Club offices, turnstiles and media boxes. We are financially sound and dont have any outstanding debts and our taxes are in order. We have a potential catchment area of the South East.

So on that basis, I'd say we are ok.

I'd agree! Having Delaney onside as a Waterford fan doesnt hurt either!

[pineapple stu]

So on that basis, I'd say we are ok.
Do you want to be OK? I can't see a huge improvement in the squad ahead of next year - still going to have a small budget, etc. Surely it'd do the club more harm than good to have another season like this one?

[Philly]

"Off the pitch we are implementing a sound youth policy plus the RSC will be a 3000 seater ground complete with training facilities, toilets, disabled access, Club offices, turnstiles and media boxes."

When are ye planning to do up the ground?

[Mental Man]

Was talking to a member of the MC and the work on the ground and the new stand is due to start now very shortly,sometime in august and to be finished around mid october maybe early november and all will be in place for the start of the 2007 season.
And your right too, having the CEO of the FAI as 1 of your biggest supporters does have its benefits and will continue to do so, John was the at the fundraiser up in Kilcohan greyhound stadium last saturday week and has always helped us with our own fundraisers too. :p
This season has been wrote off already for sure and as far as i know the club is hanging onto a surplus funds that may come their way for the start of the new season next year and rightly so,painful now on field but worth it longterm with the new structures in place with scholarships and the the junior and senior leagues and schoolboys in waterford coming on board, my hats off to all the lads on the MC who have done a terrific job and also financially stabalised the club to secure its future here in waterford.

[mypost]

Our record over the last 5 years with exception of this season has been quite good.

2002/03 - First Division Champs
2003 - 6th Premier & QF FAI Cup
2004 - 5th Premier & RU FAI Cup
2005 - 8th Premier & 2nd Rd FAI Cup
2006???

You had a rough season last year, going 5 months without a win at one stage, only to scrape up a few places at the end of the season. This year, unless you turn it around in similiar fashion, is going to be a total disaster, and that record is also going to be a factor. As for the catchment area, you have always had it, being the only LOI club in the region. But it hasn't made much difference, has it?

Waterford should be ok, but I don't think you can afford to w/o the season just yet. There are points to play for, and a record to improve on, to ensure your place for next year's big league.

[bigmac]

Waterford should be ok, but I don't think you can afford to w/o the season just yet. There are points to play for, and a record to improve on, to ensure your place for next year's big league.

You're spot on with our recent record, but there was a concious decision made to cut our cloth according to our measure. If that means a well run, solvent club with a good underage structure for bringing through people, then first division football might be an initial consequence of that.

As a fan - I'd rather see us in that situation than in the situation that Rovers found themselves in last year - i'm sure you can appreciate that sometimes hard choices need to be made - and lurching from one crisis to the next, sacrificing any development prospect just to stay in the Premier is not where I'd like to see the club go.

In terms of attracting a crowd - doing well in the first division is sometimes an easier sell than doing badly in the premier, albeit without any away supporters. Regarding the catchment area, Kilkenny City is a nearby LOI club, and traditionally we don't get much support from Wexford - some of the people involved in football there, for whatever reasons, are not Waterford fans at all.

At the end of the day, you have to remember as well that players walked away from the club last year to join first division outfits - nothing against any other clubs, but you have to question the situation where a first team player that is born and bred in Waterford, with a job in the city, leaves the club to drop down a division with another club an hour and a half drive away.

When the refurbishment of the RSC is finished, and the WIT scholarship scheme up and running, I think we'll see a better future for the club - even if you look at the number of players that have been at Waterford and are now at other Premier clubs, all it takes is for Waterford to hang on to 50% of them and the club would probably be comfortably mid table. Aside from players like Michael Devine, Dan Connor, Gary O'Neill, Neil Fenn, (not from Waterford), there are also players around such as Alan Reynolds (now back of course), John Frost, Jim Goodwin (with relegation strugglers S****horpe in League One), Shane Robinson and Alan Kirby, who are all from Waterford originally. If the club can hang on to these players in the future - like it seems they are doing with Mitchell Casey - then there's a bright outlook.

In the short term though - it's not so good I agree.

[el punter]

Sniffer's neutral musings on the Shels v Waterford game are here (http://walkthechalk.blogspot.com/)

[The Stars]

Sligo Rovers have been suffering in the First Division for years.
this was because of bad managers but also because we were building fo rthe future....The New Stand,a youth set up with U16,and U18 aswell as the 21s.
the new astro pitch and the new boundry wall aswell.
last year we took a risk in putting money in for players and wages and it payed off.in teh Premier we are seeing the benifits of this work with young stars like Curran,McCarthney and now Bellew coming through.

Waterfors are now set to do the same but ye have to be patient before you reap the rewards.all the best to waterford.

[nshoop]

What exactly is being done with the rsc,new stand?

[alabama rover]

I'd agree! Having Delaney onside as a Waterford fan doesnt hurt either!

This may sound a bit harsh.... but if waterford finishes the season with less than 6 points........ should there be any way they stay up?

off the pitch foundation building is essential....but.....

KOH

[nshoop]

I don't think their on or off pitch performance has been good enough to warrent a place in the premier next season bar this talk of a new stand.

[bigmac]

In fairness, Rovers fans, you guys have been the ones trumpeting how teams like Waterford should be allowed in in place of teams like Dublin City.

As for results - I'll be the first to admit that this season is a disaster on the pitch so far, but over the last five years, Waterford have finished ahead of Rovers every year bar the last of the winter seasons 02/03 - so on that basis why don't we deserve a place?

BTW, not having a go at Rovers here, just pointing out that recent results can distort how people view teams - Derry City were in a playoff in 2003 - how many people outside the northwest remember that now though?

[Poor Student]

What has become of us when we're insisting on the right of our club to stay up on the basis of the performance of the last 5 seasons? (btw, the FAI are only using the last 4)

[bigmac]

Fine, last 4 - saves us having to consider our season in the First division. I'm just making the point that one bad season doesn't mean a club should be discarded when it comes to setting up this new superleague or whatever it is - personally I think that it's going to be a bit of a farce as I don't think that the off-pitch criteria will be strict enough to properly sort out the league, and I suspect that the criteria will be massaged to suit the clubs that the FAI wants to have in the top division.

As a matter of interest - and I know I should know this - how many teams will there be in the new top division - if it's 10 then I don't see any way Waterford will make the cut at present.

edit** Poor Student, I didn't mean to suggest that Waterford have any sort of right to a place in the new division -if they get it fine, if not then at least we're finally going in the right direction.

[Poor Student]

Sorry Bigmac, that's fair enough. The new Premier League will consist of 12 to be cut to 10 the next season.

[bigmac]

Sorry Bigmac, that's fair enough. The new Premier League will consist of 12 to be cut to 10 the next season.

Well as far as the final ten goes - it's fair to say that Shels, Bohs, Pats, Cork, Derry and Drogheda are definites - I can't see Longford not getting a place on the back of their cup wins - after that there are 3 places up for grabs with UCD, Bray, Rovers, Sligo and Waterford probably towards the front of the chase group in whatever order.

Will the whittling down be solely on the pitch - i.e. 3 relegated and one promoted? - if so, then to get into the final 10 it might be easier to not make the 12 and get promoted than to finish in the top 9 of a 12 team league.

[Poor Student]

Sorry, the proposals actually say it will be reduced to 10 in 2009. 3 relegation spots and one promotion at the end of 2008.

http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf

[monkey magic]

personally, i would'nt be sure about us, but then you forgot to include galway in your list of teams vying for one of those final four places so it makes little difference

[bigmac]

personally, i would'nt be sure about us, but then you forgot to include galway in your list of teams vying for one of those final four places so it makes little difference

Mainly because they're hardly setting the first division alight - they're off-pitch structures are excellent though as far as I'm aware.

I can't include everyone - but I would suspect that at present the ones I did mention are all ahead of Galway in the pecking order.

with a 4th a 6th and a 5th place over the last few years, as well as 2 FAI Cups and a league cup - I'd consider longford to be fairly certain of their spot. What is it that makes you doubtful?

[Poor Student]

To be honest, a club can finish anywhere in the Premier this year and be relegated/promoted. The formula has been laid down and this season makes up only a fraction of the criteria. I don't think they're going to say "Ah well, Galway did crap this year, but they are top of all the other criteria and come tenth but we can't promote them" (this example is purely hypothetical). Whatever about the fairness and objectiveness of the off field criteria, there's a rigid enough ranking system in place.

[Red&White]

Well as far as the final ten goes - it's fair to say that Shels, Bohs, Pats, Cork, Derry and Drogheda are definites - I can't see Longford not getting a place on the back of their cup wins - after that there are 3 places up for grabs with UCD, Bray, Rovers, Sligo and Waterford probably towards the front of the chase group in whatever order.

Will the whittling down be solely on the pitch - i.e. 3 relegated and one promoted? - if so, then to get into the final 10 it might be easier to not make the 12 and get promoted than to finish in the top 9 of a 12 team league.
Maybe Limerick or Dundalk as well? To be fair, I can't see how the team topping the first division will be denied a place, and possibly the same for second placed team.

[Poor Student]

Maybe Limerick or Dundalk as well? To be fair, I can't see how the team topping the first division will be denied a place, and possibly the same for second placed team.

Read the above. This season's stuff only makes up a fraction. You're suggesting subjectivity on the most objective part of the ranking process. Wherever a club finishes they'll be allocated so much ranking points and that's that. If they are deemed crap off the field and have a bad record over the last few seasons then this season can't help you.

[monkey magic]

Mainly because they're hardly setting the first division alight - they're off-pitch structures are excellent though as far as I'm aware.

I can't include everyone - but I would suspect that at present the ones I did mention are all ahead of Galway in the pecking order.

with a 4th a 6th and a 5th place over the last few years, as well as 2 FAI Cups and a league cup - I'd consider longford to be fairly certain of their spot. What is it that makes you doubtful?


mainly our "potential" fanbase or lack of it. from what i can gather potential is gonna count for a hell of a lot more than previous exploits, and as someone said previous results count for little

[nshoop]

Read the above. This season's stuff only makes up a fraction. You're suggesting subjectivity on the most objective part of the ranking process. Wherever a club finishes they'll be allocated so much ranking points and that's that. If they are deemed crap off the field and have a bad record over the last few seasons then this season can't help you.

I have to agree.I can't see limerick getting a place,even if they are runners up!

[Red&White]

Fair enough, it's inevitable some clubs are going to feel hard done by.

[pineapple stu]

Whatever about the fairness and objectiveness of the off field criteria, there's a rigid enough ranking system in place.
There's not really. There's been no outlining of the off-field marks other than to say that they're out of 100, etc. Hypothetically, there's no reason why the FAI can't given 100 marks to teams they want in the Premier and 0 to teams they don't want. The on-field stuff is only worth 360 marks (as you're guaranteed 140 marks), so the off-field could be a good bit more than 50% too. They can pick and choose as they want and come up with some figures to back up their decisions.

[Poor Student]

Stu I just mean there was a reasonably structured approach to it. Obviously within the off the field criteria there's a huge vagueness. I don't agree with it, but it is happening.

[pineapple stu]

There's a structured approach to the on-field stuff. There's no structured approach, to all intents and purposes, to the off-field stuff. We know where marks are going, but we don't know how to get those marks.