Shels fans meeting

[Roverstillidie]

of course you did ;)
Thanks for the heads up there Rovers...

you doing your rain man impression again?

remember typing this a month ago?

http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=486802&postcount=22 (http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=486802&postcount=22)

back in the real world fintan is implying that a panic search for sponsors and funding to pay players, the taxman and printers and the move to santry are good for shels and were part of the plan all along. tut tut.

is it true sponsors are threatining to pull out when you leave tolka?

[higgins]

Of course I remember posting that and I stick by it.

How many times do I have to say that your on the right track but you fail to mention simple little facts such as the one Fintan mentioned to you above.

a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny little minor detail I think you'll agree :eek:


Its the perfect example of whats posted here not being 100% true. Point I've been making for years now.

[Buile Shuibhne]

The plan was to move - it took a while - Tolka Valley Park Finglas, Morton, Donabate, groundshare in Dalyer, and finally back to Morton.

All the stuff happened in the meanwhile - as it tends to in League of Ireland football - but has now been sorted, probably more by luck than by design.

And no - no sponsors (what sponsors?) are threatening to pull out because of - or for any other reason - us moving out of Tolka. Why would they do that? What connection does the likes of JW Hire have with Tolka Park that they wouldn't have with any other ground?

[Roverstillidie]

We've been planning to leave Tolka for 3 years now. It's sold to the developers but is no use to them until we have a definite alternative new home. It's written into the Dublin City Development plan that it can't be re-zoned for apartments iuntil we're fixed up. In fairness to the ex DCC manager John Fitzgerald, he didn't want another Rovers / Milltown scenario.

It's all coming together now.

that would be more credible if the sale wasnt vehemently denied by Mr Byrne when it broke. are you saying santry was the plan when the lease was secretly sold? ***edit, answered as i typed**

Can you source the part of the development plan that copperfastens your right to stay in a stadium you dont have any legal right to be in? im surprised no-one inside or out of football spotted it in a public document, seems a big thing to miss.

so why dont you just trouser the cash and never find an alternative stadium?

with respect fintan, i find that guarantee very hard to believe. but you will have no problem proving me wrong.


Of course I remember posting that and I stick by it.
How many times do I have to say that your on the right track but you fail to mention simple little facts such as the one Fintan mentioned to you above.

a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny little minor detail I think you'll agree :eek:
Its the perfect example of whats posted here not being 100% true. Point I've been making for years now.

you no more knew any of that than the man on the moon. you denied 100% that the deal had been struck and we were all lying about the sale. you are the personification of the fan that will kill your club.

[higgins]

Can you source the part of the development plan that copperfastens your right to stay in a stadium you dont have any legal right to be in? im surprised no-one inside or out of football spotted it in a public document, seems a big thing to miss.


I love it!!!
I really love it ....

Its killing you isnt it :p

I never said a deal had not been struck.
I disputed it happened exactly as you posted.

Again the devil is in the detail

[Buile Shuibhne]

I said Santry wasn't the original plan.


http://www.dublincity.ie/Images/Manager%27s%20Report%20July%202004_tcm35-8625.pdf

page 193



Response:
Tolka Park is a long established football venue situated on the Richmond Road, adjoining
the River Tolka. The submission states that the current user of the venue Shelbourne
Football Club, wish to relocate to the outer suburbs of Dublin to a site which can
accommodate the existing and future needs of the club.
It is suggested that the release of the site for development purposes will fund the relocation
of the club. The club has a strong juvenile section with a large number of juvenile teams,
which are dispersed throughout the Dublin area. The intention is to develop a “campus”
providing for new stadiums, ancillary pitches and facilities.
The venue is bounded by the road to the north and the river to the south. Residential
development adjoins the west and east. The venue presently accommodates between nine
and ten thousand people. The site constraints, together with the proximity of residential
development precludes consideration of any further expansion and consequent upgrading of
facilities.
The existing venue has a limited amenity value to this part of the city. The constraints of the
site give rise to nuisance to adjoining residents on match days.
Map E
Reference No.: 12
Submission No.: 628
Issue:
Rezone Tolka Park, Richmond Road, Dublin 3 from Z9 (Open Space Amenity) to Z1 (Residential).
193

In a rezoning and subsequent re-development scenario, part of the lands could be retained for open space purposes. This land, together with the Z9 open space zoned lands on the other side of the river, i.e. Clonliffe College opens up the potential of linking both sides of the river and providing a cycle-way/pedestrian walk, which could extend from Griffith Avenue to Mountjoy Square. It would also open up land along the river and secure potential links southwards to Ballybough.
The Planning Department is presently evaluating the institutional open space lands in the Richmond Road area with a view to determining local and strategic needs. A number of sites on the riverside of Richmond Road are zoned for development purposes, i.e. Z10. There is scope for developing a linear park along this side of the river, of which Tolka Park would form part.
However, the proposed rezoning is considered premature pending a detailed relocation proposal, at which stage any rezoning can be considered by way of variation to the City Development Plan.
No Change

[Roverstillidie]

thanks for that fintan, i edited the santry point as you can see.

now where is the bit that says you can stay there until you choose to budge?

that talks about rezoning, not a commercial deal with property sharks.

[monkey magic]

that talks about rezoning, not a commercial deal with property sharks.
in fairness when does re-zoning ever not include property sharks

[Roverstillidie]

in fairness when does re-zoning ever not include property sharks

agreed, but the document produced by fintan says rezoning might be delayed until a "proposed rezoning is considered premature pending a detailed relocation proposal", presumably for shels.

it says nothing about the mulden boys throwing shels (and rovers ) out, as is their right. possesion being taken of the site and rezoning being granted are very different creatures.

word on the street is moves have been made to evict shelbourne very soon, and this document doesnt protect them from that.

[Buile Shuibhne]

The point is that Tolka is worthless to the developers until we're sorted. It is in their interests that we get a new home so that they can they apply for rezoning. If they evicted us before we had somewhere to go to - DCC would not have been inclined to grant rezoning.

[drummerboy]

I'd say, in all honesty, that there is quite an amount of horse-trading to be done before Santry is sorted. When can we really expect to see Shels in Santry. Are they prepared to go in now.

[Roverstillidie]

The point is that Tolka is worthless to the developers until we're sorted. It is in their interests that we get a new home so that they can they apply for rezoning. If they evicted us before we had somewhere to go to - DCC would not have been inclined to grant rezoning.

i disagree with that. they can demolish, start preparing the site etc. either way, they need you out. if you are pinning your hopes on the inherent decency of property speculators to save your club, you have a problem.

you wont be in santry any quicker if these guys let you stay. if fact, kicking you out would force your hand fintan, you would have to hurry the process along

[BohsFans]

So if the Shels move to Santry goes ahead, and Santry is brought up to UEFA licensing standards, will Dub. City be coming in on that?

[Dr.Nightdub]

And will Morton be UEFA-compliant by Xmas when the make-up of the new League is decided? It's mid-July now so that gives them five and a half months to agree tenancy, complete the surveying, get drawings done, get planning permission, FCC to go through a tendering process (seeing as it's a publicly-owned stadium) and then get all the compliance work done.

Jaysis, I've been hanging around with architects long enough now that I almost speak the language! ;)

Methinks Shels could be taking Rovers' place on the Tour de Turnip Patch next season! :D

[DvB]

The one thing that has me thinking that Shels may well still be in Toka come seasons end is the simple fact that it achieves very little turfing them (& us) out until the rezoning process is completed & a full grant of planning of planning permission is recieved for the site, thats a process that will take a minimum of six months & more than likely longer considering the location & probable scale of the development. Santry i'd imagine is more likely a potential solution for next season, though as we discovered before this season started Morton is insufficient in reaching the requirements for a premier division licence, this is where the honourable Dr Nitehoop, oops sorry, Dr Nitedub's scenario looms!

Koh

[Ash]

It's only a matter of time before everyone will want to be
ground sharing in Athlone Towns new stadium :D

Just got €600,000 from the Sports Capital Grants so
that should move things along nicely.

We're 4 week behind schedule according to the Stadium Committee

[Block G Raptor]

We have to persevere though. It's important to have a professional game, where coaches and players are rewarded for a fulltime commitment to the game.
Well Knock me Down with a feather and Fcuk me Pink Me and Peader finally find something we agree on.

[Roverstillidie]

The one thing that has me thinking that Shels may well still be in Toka come seasons end is the simple fact that it achieves very little turfing them (& us) out until the rezoning process is completed & a full grant of planning of planning permission is recieved for the site, thats a process that will take a minimum of six months & more than likely longer considering the location & probable scale of the development. Santry i'd imagine is more likely a potential solution for next season, though as we discovered before this season started Morton is insufficient in reaching the requirements for a premier division licence, this is where the honourable Dr Nitehoop, oops sorry, Dr Nitedub's scenario looms!

Koh

I disagree.

Scenario A: Property speculator decides to leave the ground alone for a year while shels tease out the pros and cons of santry and get the best deal at their own pace. He then applies for rezoning after they leave.

Scenario B: He throws them out next week, forcing them to find an alternative with immediate effect. when that alternative is found, however much of a stopgap it is, he can say to the council 'relocation completed' and he applies for rezoning.

bear in mind this is mulden and what they tried to do to rovers. they clearly dont care about sport, just profit.

[Dodge]

they clearly dont care about sport, just profit.
Well d'uh...

We'll see soon enough how bad a state Shels are in, I hear they're about to sign Keith Fahey. If they do and don't shed some of the wage bill...

[Roverstillidie]

Well d'uh...

We'll see soon enough how bad a state Shels are in, I hear they're about to sign Keith Fahey. If they do and don't shed some of the wage bill...

no need for that!!!

im only pointing out these guys tried to screw us, and i mean seriously shaft us, and shels are 100% reliant on their goodwill. thats not good. not good at all.

[Dodge]

I know, was just making the point that millionaire builders aren't known for their generosity

[passerrby]

gee i wish we were a big club like shels and rovers

[NY Hoop]

What meeting?

Says it all really.

KOH

[Block G Raptor]

Sorry to disappoint yiz all, but things are moving very much apace this week on two fronts for Shels vis a vis the new investors and the move to Santry.

In Tolka Park last night, the Rovers fans couldn't understand why Ollie was all smiles and being so nice to them.

................. and as for Crowe, Moore, Ryan or any other Shels players going to Bohs - pure diversionary tactics by the Spoofer Farrelly.


Are these your Nikes Finatan? Thats all we can see of you your head is buried so deep in the ShelsCreche Sandpit!

[bad mongo]

The point is that Tolka is worthless to the developers until we're sorted. It is in their interests that we get a new home so that they can they apply for rezoning. If they evicted us before we had somewhere to go to - DCC would not have been inclined to grant rezoning.

That info has been in the public domain for years. The fact is Shels are skint. any local area plan for a redeveloped Tolka will mark out a significant portion of the site as open/recreation space. Shels' dividend from their portion of the lease (and the corpo's) is dependent on the density of any apartment scheme built on the site.Tolka Pk. is a minor element of the whole site that will be redeveloped (zoom in on the green/blue hatched area here: http://www.dublincity.ie/shaping_the_city/future_planning/development_plan/Maps/mapeset.pdf )

Finto, just admit you haven't got a pot to **** in, you will be lucky to crawl to Santry with enough capital cash to re-erect your floodlights from Tolka.

BTW that copy and paste is from the city manager's report on the development plan.It is not the actual statutory/policy document. There is no direct written provision in the development plan promising anything to SFC. As is plain from the cut'n'paste the Richmond Road proposed local area plan is mostly interested in improving the permeability/amenity of the neighbourhood, not providing major additional residential development.

[drummerboy]

What happens if DCC don't rezone the area.

[bad mongo]

What happens if DCC don't rezone the area.

They will. It's been decided for 2/3 years now as Finto has already pointed out. The devil is in the detail.

[Dodge]

Good knowledge, bad mongo

[Juz the Hoop]

Shels fans, I'm not much on speeches but it's so gratifying to see you wallow in the mess you've created, you're screwed, thank you, goodbye.

de de de de de de de de de de de

Ok its time for our back up plan.

you mean plan b

yes b.

KOH

JUZ

[Juz the Hoop]

whats that tune from?

LOL i was never good at writing music.

its the bit where ray patterson walks off stage

KOH

JUZ

[passerrby]

de de de de de de de de de de de, dont know the tune but the words ring a bell

[anto eile]

Noticed that- it's pretty terrible looking. Hadn't been in Tolka for a while and it seems to be getting very run down. I suppose that's natural if there's no long term future there, but it's still a little depressing.
not 100% sure but think the seats were moved from the ballybough end into the riverside stand to replace the 500 broken seats that were in the riverside stand
my guess anyway

[EnDai]

Police Academy?

[Raheny Red]

Police Academy?

For your 999th post, great stuff :D :p

[thejollyrodger]

You know that a thread has truly gone nuts when The Jolly Rodger is the voice of reason! :D
I am the voice of reason on this board full stop :D [.]



It's only a matter of time before everyone will want to be
ground sharing in Athlone Towns new stadium :D

Just got €600,000 from the Sports Capital Grants so
that should move things along nicely.

We're 4 week behind schedule according to the Stadium Committee

do you want a medal for your stadium ?? Just a reality check...When is Athlone town ever going to break into Europe ... it would need a nuclear melt down in Dublin for Shels or anyone else to go to Athlone town .. C ye ; )

[Dodge]

I am the voice of reason on this board full stop :D [.]




do you want a medal for your stadium ?? Just a reality check...When is Athlone town ever going to break into Europe ... it would need a nuclear melt down in Dublin for Shels or anyone else to go to Athlone town .. C ye ; )
POTM :p

[Raheny Red]

Aul' JR you've gotta love him :D :rolleyes: :p