CL: Linfield v Gorica

[pete]

Linfield missing key players (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/5165400.stm)

Linfield will be without several key players for the Champions League first qualifying round game against Gorica at Windsor Park on Tuesday (1800 BST).

Midfielder Michael Gault is suspended for both ties, Oran Kearney has a groin injury and Andrew Hunter misses out because of an injured ankle.

New signing Timmy Adamson is also ruled out through injury while striker Glenn Ferguson is on a family holiday.

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What a joke having Ferguson on a family holiday. He can hardly say he didn't know when the game was on. Amateur stuff & was even worse with Glentoran last year who missed several players due to holidays. Say what you like about the eL but that would never happen down here.

[LeixlipRed]

is this game on TV (stop sniggering in the back) or radio?

[paudie]

is this game on TV (stop sniggering in the back) or radio?

Probably on BBC Ulster on some wavelength but not sure if it is available on the web.

[paudie]

=================================

What a joke having Ferguson on a family holiday. He can hardly say he didn't know when the game was on. Amateur stuff & was even worse with Glentoran last year who missed several players due to holidays. Say what you like about the eL but that would never happen down here.

Linfield in fairness are moving towards more full time players. Ferguson is not full time and may not have been playing anyway.

I think Glentoran are missing a good few players again because of holidays for their UEFA Cup game on Thursday.

[pete]

Everyone knows what week the games will be on - its the same every year.

Easy solution - take your holidays a few weeks earlier.

Non-por or not Ferguson is a key player for Linfield & would definitely be playing. No point competing if not going to treat seriously.

[Gather round]

Opinion on OWC is divided:

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13617&st=75

I suspect that both Ferguson and Linfield know he would be on holiday at least weeks ago, but the club were relaxed about it because they treat the games as glorified friendlies.

[LeixlipRed]

Linfield 2-0 down, Thompson missed a penalty and they've mad 2 subs so far. And its not even half time!

[dancinpants]

3-1 to Gorica

[DmanDmythDledge]

but the club were relaxed about it because they treat the games as glorified friendlies.

3-1 to Gorica
Well they deserve to be behind and more than likely lose with that attitude.

[dcfcsteve]

Opinion on OWC is divided:

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13617&st=75

I suspect that both Ferguson and Linfield know he would be on holiday at least weeks ago, but the club were relaxed about it because they treat the games as glorified friendlies.

I thought the club was more visionary than that ?

Poor attitude if that's the case. No reason why Linfield can't be regularly progressing at least a round in Europe - particularly with the increase in professional players.

[Gather round]

I think Jeffrey and some of the younger players are forward-looking, but it does seem that the directors and many of the fans are more interested in pipping the Glens and their now-annual loyalist love-in with Rangers. Very disappointing.

[anto eile]

disgraceful way to prepare for a european game
anyone who prepares like that deserves a hammering.
the IL is going nowhere fast. the EL mightnt be worrying Barcelona Bayern etc, but at least the EL clubs go into european games realsiticaly expecting to win through at least one round
the IL clubs need to cop on

[mypost]

the club were relaxed about it because they treat the games as glorified friendlies.

Now, I have little time for Linfield's woes, or their league in general, but that is a very unprofessional approach to take regarding European games. In our league, there would be uproar if someone decided his holidays were more of a priority than playing a vital European match for his club, and in a roundabout way for his country's standing in Europe. But I guess for them up there, it's the norm. :o

[David]

As has been said, Glenn is part time. Therefore football is not his career. He has a young family and as his wife works in a school they are restricted as to when they can take holidays. Hardly fair to expect his family to go without a holiday is it and all for what is a part time job.

[Lux Interior]

Now, I have little time for Linfield's woes, or their league in general, but that is a very unprofessional approach to take regarding European games. In our league, there would be uproar if someone decided his holidays were more of a priority than playing a vital European match for his club, and in a roundabout way for his country's standing in Europe. But I guess for them up there, it's the norm. :o

Glens are missing at least 7 first teamers for our UEFA tie tomorrow night (some reasons for absence are enforced, eg: suspension, injury) and 3 of these absences are due to holidays.

Not best pleased, given that this is arguably our most important home match of the season.

[David]

Glens are missing at least 7 first teamers for our UEFA tie tomorrow night (some reasons for absence are enforced, eg: suspension, injury) and 3 of these absences are due to holidays.

Not best pleased, given that this is arguably our most important home match of the season.

I fail to see how any IL club could class a European game as the most important home match of the season. Whilst I really enjoyed our victory last season against Ventspils it didn't compare with any of our trophy wins for me.

[sonofstan]

Interesting difference between the two leagues, alright; our biggest crowds in recent years have been for european matches and the same is true for Shels; Cork's championship decider last year was probably their best crowd ever, but tonight, Turner's cross looked pretty full. In comparison, even Bohs/ Rovers matches - the Dublin equivalent of Blues/ Glens - don't get anything like what we got against Rosenberg. It would be easy to score points about the El being more forward looking and progressive, but it's more to do with a need to measure ourselves against other leagues, whereas the IL seems quite aware of it's lowly status and willing to live with it; the fact is that, in pursuit of the chimera of champions league success, clubs here have nearly bankrupted themselves, a temptation our more phlegmatic northern neighbours seem able to resist; a team in the EL with Linfield's support would be chasing the dream big time.

[mypost]

As has been said, Glenn is part time. Therefore football is not his career. He has a young family and as his wife works in a school they are restricted as to when they can take holidays. Hardly fair to expect his family to go without a holiday is it and all for what is a part time job.

If the other players can manage to take their holidays at the same time, then one player shouldn't be allowed to hold his team-mates, his boss, his club's fans, and NI football in general to ransom. There are other times when holidays can be taken, and he either has to make alternative arrangements, or move to a club in a more professional league, where he can take holidays when it suits his circumstances. It's not fair, but that's how it goes. Work first, play later.

[Gather round]

the IL seems quite aware of it's lowly status and willing to live with it; the fact is that, in pursuit of the chimera of champions league success, clubs here have nearly bankrupted themselves, a temptation our more phlegmatic northern neighbours seem able to resist; a team in the EL with Linfield's support would be chasing the dream big time

Heh. That's generous, SoS, but in practice most IL clubs are basically bankrupt anyway- including those who play in the UEFA competitions regularly!

[pete]

European games are a sense of huge pride throughout the eL as we struggle for some recognition for our league. The fact european games are often live on tv too means more professional approach.

[Lux Interior]

I fail to see how any IL club could class a European game as the most important home match of the season. Whilst I really enjoyed our victory last season against Ventspils it didn't compare with any of our trophy wins for me.

Well, having seen the amount of wedge the club made from Europe two seasons ago (via the statement of accounts), you can betcha any home European match is "most important", particularly for a club on the breadline like ours.

Maybe handout fc have a more reliable and lucrative source of income:rolleyes:

[Lux Interior]

European games are a sense of huge pride throughout the eL as we struggle for some recognition for our league. The fact european games are often live on tv too means more professional approach.

Sadly, many of our own fans see Europe as an irritation before the mighty glamour of the League Cup and Newry away.

Whilst, we'll never come close to a quarter final, the Glens should be aiming for advancement through 2 - maybe 3 - rounds, instead of glorious failure in July.

Too many things currently work against that. The timing of the fixtures, meaning a lack of meaningful, competitive matches. That also leads nicely into the question of summer football and full-time players - both pie in the sky at the moment, although we have been gathering some full-time players over the past couple of seasons.

Whilst we continue to warm up for Europe playing junior sides in sunny fields, allowing key players to flit in and out of the country on vacation and playing dour football on sh.itheap pitches in Jan/Feb, we'll be looking at heroic failure forever.

[Krstic]

As has been said, Glenn is part time. Therefore football is not his career. He has a young family and as his wife works in a school they are restricted as to when they can take holidays. Hardly fair to expect his family to go without a holiday is it and all for what is a part time job.

What about the other 7 weeks of the summer when the school is closed?

[David]

What about the other 7 weeks of the summer when the school is closed?

Our season has started then. No matter what if he takes holidays during July or August he is going to miss football. I can see peoples' argument but I can also see it from the player's point of view.

[mypost]

I can see peoples' argument but I can also see it from the player's point of view.

At Linfield, who is bigger? The player's interests or the club's interests?

The 2 approaches here, reflect how both societies feel in the wider world. In the South, we constantly look towards and compare ourselves against the rest of Europe. In the North, the society is more inward-looking. Like the rest of the UK, it has no interest in Europe as a whole, and is only bothered with domestic issues, not just in football terms, but in other ways of life too.

[Gather round]

At Linfield, who is bigger? The player's interests or the club's interests?

The 2 approaches here, reflect how both societies feel in the wider world. In the South, we constantly look towards and compare ourselves against the rest of Europe. In the North, the society is more inward-looking. Like the rest of the UK, it has no interest in Europe as a whole, and is only bothered with domestic issues, not just in football terms, but in other ways of life too.

The club's interests are bigger, but (and I stand to be corrected by David, Lux here) they probably match the player's in this and similar cases at Glentoran. Irish League clubs don't take European football as seriously as they might/ should.

I realise you may be joking, but drawing parallels with wider society generally are a bit silly. I remember watching the Glens in a Euro QF in the 70s, and the Blues reached one in the late 60s. I think you'll find NI society was rather more insular then than now.

The English Premiership, as surely you can't fail to have noticed, has so many foreign players that it couldn't even provide three goalkeepers for England's World Cup Squad. Hardly uninterested in Europe -or further afield- as a whole, eh?

[David]

The club's interests are bigger, but (and I stand to be corrected by David, Lux here) they probably match the player's in this and similar cases at Glentoran. Irish League clubs don't take European football as seriously as they might/ should.

I realise you may be joking, but drawing parallels with wider society generally are a bit silly. I remember watching the Glens in a Euro QF in the 70s, and the Blues reached one in the late 60s. I think you'll find NI society was rather more insular then than now.

The English Premiership, as surely you can't fail to have noticed, has so many foreign players that it couldn't even provide three goalkeepers for England's World Cup Squad. Hardly uninterested in Europe -or further afield- as a whole, eh?

I am realistic. At the minute with the current format I can't see us getting any further than two rounds and even that is a push. I would say it is the same for the Eircom to be honest. The one advantage that the EL has is also being in the middle of their season. Some people say that we should then switch to summer football but personally I do not class Europe as important enough to take such a drastic (and in my opinion wrong) step. Given the choice between a league championship and an extra round in Europe it would be the league every time. Linfield's focus has always been on the league, that is what we are judged on, it is our bread and butter and for me that is the way it should be.

[mypost]

personally I do not class Europe as important enough to take such a drastic step. Given the choice between a league championship and an extra round in Europe it would be the league every time.

Such sentiments only emphasise my previous post.

[David]

Such sentiments only emphasise my previous post.

Are you seriously telling me that you would prefer to see Rovers going an extra round in Europe (not that this scenario will arise in near future) than win the league?

[hoops1]

Going an extra round in Europe is not going to stop you
being successful at home.
Your lads more than compete in the setanta cup but look at the results last night.
There is lots of money to be made in Europe and thats where EL teams see
themselves, the view in Europe is if your not competing at that level your nobody
To many up north are happy being big fishes in a small pond
The problem is with attitude and administration because having seen Linfield
in the setanta cup they have some cracking players
The truth is no one outside Ireland knows or cares about our teams at least EL teams are trying to change that
Linfield hammering Distillery and Institute every week who cares
Linfield winning in Europe now were talking

[NY Hoop]

Are you seriously telling me that you would prefer to see Rovers going an extra round in Europe (not that this scenario will arise in near future) than win the league?

Good question. But there are some who would say yeah. As Hoops1 says nobody outside this island will care how many leagues you win but will take notice if we do well in Europe. For me winning in Poland 3 years ago was better than winning a domestic trophy.

IMO the gap between the leagues is widening and this is because the IL wont play summer football, clubs letting their players go on holiday instead of playing in Europe etc.

KOH

[manic da hoop]

Are you seriously telling me that you would prefer to see Rovers going an extra round in Europe (not that this scenario will arise in near future) than win the league?

Why should it be one or the other? I've never known any team's chances of winning domestic silvereware being compromised by success in Europe - quiet the opposite if anything. Most importantly, success in Europe is about credibility - both for the individual club and for the league as a whole. That is why I was delighted to see both our representatives do well last night. Nobody, outside the already converted minority, will ever take domestic football seriously aslong as our teams's continue to get a hiding from nobodies playing in countries they couldn't point out on a map. That was the way it was not too long ago - now we are beating former UEFA Cup winners people might just sit up and take notice. Also, European matches tend to attract the highest attendances due to the number of neutrals who turn up.

[David]

Good question. But there are some who would say yeah. As Hoops1 says nobody outside this island will care how many leagues you win but will take notice if we do well in Europe. For me winning in Poland 3 years ago was better than winning a domestic trophy.

IMO the gap between the leagues is widening and this is because the IL wont play summer football, clubs letting their players go on holiday instead of playing in Europe etc.

KOH

Class doing well though. With the current European set up I cannot see any Irish club, north or south, winning more than two ties in Europe. That would get us into the final preliminary round, hardly going to make the rest of Europe sit up and take notice. To be honest the rest of Europe noticing my club is not that important to me. As long as we portray a positive image of our club when abroad I am happy and I think we already do that. Domestic success and success on an all Ireland basis is what matters to me at the beginning of each season, a decent run in Europe is a bonus.

[NY Hoop]

Dont think you can portray a positive image of your club if you get beaten on every away trip though.

KOH

[David]

Dont think you can portray a positive image of your club if you get beaten on every away trip though.

KOH
Ask any team that we have played recently in Europe whether or not we have portrayed a positive image of our club. Ask the returning Drogheda supporters of the image that HJK Helsinki now have of Linfield FC for example. Club image is not all about what happens on the pitch as Shamrock Rovers and Linfield know better than most.

[NY Hoop]

Ask any team that we have played recently in Europe whether or not we have portrayed a positive image of our club. Ask the returning Drogheda supporters of the image that HJK Helsinki now have of Linfield FC for example. Club image is not all about what happens on the pitch as Shamrock Rovers and Linfield know better than most.

Oh we know:

Fans praised by Uefa official

Shamrock Rovers may not have had the best of results against Czech side Slovan Liberec in the Intertoto Cup second round first leg at the weekend, losing 2-0, but the behaviour of the Hoops fans has not gone unnoticed as a Uefa official has reported them for their good natured attitude during the game.

Around 150 Rovers supporters travelled to the Czech Republic to cheer on Liam Buckley’s side and the carnival attitude they produced during the match has seen Uefa delegate Barry Bright take the unusual step of reporting the fans to his Uefa bosses.

"Yes it is unusual, but I will be reporting the behaviour of the Shamrock Rovers fans to Uefa," he said. "It’s a real pat on the back for the club and Irish football in general.

"I was extremely impressed with their behaviour and the way they supported Shamrock Rovers throughout the match. The fans enjoyed the match, bought Slovan scarves and that really went down well with the locals."


KOH

[paudie]

TBH while the IL plays winter football there really isn't much point in taking Euro games too seriously.

The big three would regularly beat Baltic opposition and give Scandnavian teams a good game but when they are playing out of season it's bound to tell against them.

The EL collectively decided to change the season with one eye on improving euro results.

If the IL don't want to change that's up to them.

[Not Brazil]

TBH while the IL plays winter football there really isn't much point in taking Euro games too seriously.

The big three would regularly beat Baltic opposition and give Scandnavian teams a good game but when they are playing out of season it's bound to tell against them.


Exactly.

[mypost]

With the current European set up I cannot see any Irish club, north or south, winning more than two ties in Europe. That would get us into the final preliminary round, hardly going to make the rest of Europe sit up and take notice.

Until about 10 years ago, we didn't even get the chance to play CL-qualifying. :mad: After Pats got hockeyed 0-10 by Moldovan minnows in 1999, our approach had to change. Since 2000, our CL representatives have only failed to make it past QR1 once, and they were only beaten then in the last minute. Most of them get to QR2, and one year, a club made it to QR3. Eventually, our clubs will reach QR3 regularly, and progress further. It can be done, but it takes time, together with a professional approach. You can't permit players to go on holidays during the season, which is extended up North to accommodate their European campaigns. To me, most Northern clubs have no desire to make the changes required, and are happy to beat poor opposition in the cold, rain, wind, and frost every week. Linfield won the league by a country kilometre last season, and win their league most other seasons. Whereas the LOI Premier Division is a very competitive league, very hard to win, and the clubs are now expected to make progress in Europe each season. Hence, Derry's win last week was not the surprise it would have been say, 5 years ago.

[paudie]

Are you seriously telling me that you would prefer to see Rovers going an extra round in Europe (not that this scenario will arise in near future) than win the league?

Point of information - The last 2 EL champions have played 8 (Shels) and 6(Cork City) games in Europe during the seasons they won the league.

IMO the confidence gained from good Euro runs in 2004 and 2005 were significant factors in turning City into a league winning squad.

There is also the aspect of good euro runs raising the profile of the clubs making it easier to attract sponsorship/TV money.

[BleusAvantTout]

Point of information - The last 2 EL champions have played 8 (Shels) and 6(Cork City) games in Europe during the seasons they won the league.

IMO the confidence gained from good Euro runs in 2004 and 2005 were significant factors in turning City into a league winning squad.

There is also the aspect of good euro runs raising the profile of the clubs making it easier to attract sponsorship/TV money.


I concur with all of your points. I can recall the "good old days" when only League Champions played in the European Cup and there was an open draw. Now clubs from outside the major footballing nations of Europe are penalised by having to play during what is effectively their "close season".

The old system is gone forever and financial prowness is to the fore. In my opinion, that is a real shame and there is now little hope of a lucrative, big-name draw in Europe, certainly for IL clubs.

Money talks (it says goodbye to me!!;) )

[Gather round]

But then again the Blues now have an effectively annual cash-cow with Rangers :)

Assuming they don't rouse themselves to three or four in the Alps tonight, we Irish League fans may have to wait another year. I've just thought of a further snag. If the Hatchetmen do manage to progress a couple of rounds against Baltic or Scando opposition, there's the posibility of a Turkish/ Bosnian team in the main draw. Might cause a few diplomatic problems...:(

[dancinpants]

Battling performance from the Blues tonight, 2-2 . 5-3 on AGG. Missed a penalty to boot!!!. Just imagine if the first leg was taken a bit more seriously, they'd probably be in the hat for the next round :rolleyes:

[David]

Battling performance from the Blues tonight, 2-2 . 5-3 on AGG. Missed a penalty to boot!!!. Just imagine if the first leg was taken a bit more seriously, they'd probably be in the hat for the next round :rolleyes:

I don't think it is a case of not taking it seriously, it is simply a case of players not being match sharp. I just got back from Slovenia last night and we should have won out there but at the minute we are not clinical enough and at times are giving the ball away cheaply, something that only really comes with match sharpness.

[paudie]

I don't think it is a case of not taking it seriously, it is simply a case of players not being match sharp. I just got back from Slovenia last night and we should have won out there but at the minute we are not clinical enough and at times are giving the ball away cheaply, something that only really comes with match sharpness.

Good point but Gorica wouldn't have been match sharp either as their season hasn't started yet. Or has it?

[David]

Good point but Gorica wouldn't have been match sharp either as their season hasn't started yet. Or has it?

As far as I am aware it has.

[hoops1]

Jefferies said he was ecstatic after the game the other night:eek:
He needs to take a look at himself. With proper preparation and better
attitude they could have won the tie. Hes getting paid dont forget and
hes ecstatic at losing or having a moral victory
I thought he was more professional than that.
Ok Linfield fans see League as the main priority but do they not see the
first team to get the the CL will have the finance to dominate there league for years.
No vision:rolleyes:

[dancinpants]

The Slovenian league hasn't started yet...well according to soccerbot.com anyway!!

[mypost]

Given the choice between a league championship and an extra round in Europe it would be the league every time. Linfield's focus has always been on the league, that is what we are judged on, it is our bread and butter and for me that is the way it should be.

Because of NL summer football, all of our clubs have progressed in Europe this year. 2 out of 4 are left, at least one of them will play two extra rounds, and with a good draw, maybe longer, and they are still challenging for the league. The LOI has raised the bar on the island. That's what clubs in the other league should aspire to.

[David]

There is no denying that summer football has been hugely advantageous to Eircom League clubs, although I feel it is very unfair on the clubs that do well to put it down just to that. Derry are through and I really hope that Drogheda join them but I personally still believe that the domestic league far outweighs European success and that is in no way trying to detract from what Eircom League clubs have achieved this season in Europe, fair play to them.