Action Against FAI Sky Deal

[Michael Nugent]

AN URGENT APPEAL TO IRISH FOOTBALL FANS

Please note that this is not about the domestic coverage deal with TV3 (apart from Sky having the FAI Cup semis and final). If you don't agree with this, I respect your opinion. I'm not trying to convince you. I'm addressing this to those who are angry at the deal.

Also, if you agree with this, please do something. And fast. In particular, support the postcard campaign announced by the Irish Football Supporters Association (details at the end of this message) and the boycott of FAI goods announced by the Irish Consumers Association.

In my opinion, this time the FAI has gone too far. At the very same meeting that it established an independent investigation into its own incompetence in Japan and Korea, it has insulted Irish soccer fans everywhere, shown itself clueless as to the true meaning of football, and ignored both its own development strategy and the basis on which it is being massively funded by the Irish government.

THE REALITY OF THE SKY DEAL

All for a hyped-up deal that, on the FAI’s own projected accounts, will have no major impact on the finances of Irish football. In the next three years, the Irish Government will give the FAI ten times as much as Sky will: 57m euro compared to 5.6m euro. In this time, the Sky deal will add less than 5% to the FAI’s projected income. Assuming RTE or TV3 would have paid even half the amount Sky will, total three-year income will only rise from about 71m euro to about 74m.

It’s not even a good deal financially. Sky is paying the English Nationwide League more twice as much per live game. For non-premiership English football and the Worthington Cup, Sky is paying 500,000 euro per live game. The FAI will get less than 210,000 per game (assuming 3 full and 3 U-21 home internationals, and the FAI Cup semis and final each year) for exclusive rights to world’s 14th best national team.

For that, Irish fans must subscribe to Sky or bring their children to a pub when Ireland play at home. And what clown came up with the sweetener of showing non-Sky-subscribers our matches “as-live” an hour after they end? Can they really know that little about football?

DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY

Six months ago the FAI launched a major Government-funded development strategy “One Game, One Association”. Its stated principal aim was to maximise the number of people involved in Irish football. It made clear that “participation should be understood to have a broad definition, which includes supporters”.

To do this, the FAI committed in writing to “make key policy decisions through (its formal structures) and through consultation with participants”; to provide “services to participants which are accessible in terms of their location, price and time of availibility”; and to “ensure that Irish football is enjoyable, ethical and inclusive.” D’oh!

In a strategy negotiated with and largely funded by the Government, the FAI was “fully committed to working in partnership with the wider community” and “gaining the support and cooperation of local communities”. Clearly it is doing no such thing. It is making major unilateral decisions about the very essence of our game, acting as if it was an independently wealthy gentleman’s club.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Enough is enough. We the fans own Irish football. The FAI is ultimately our organisation, funded by us both as supporters and taxpayers. If it remains in denial about its duty to us, then our Government should stop giving it our money.

Don’t just sit there. Do something. Support the Irish Football Supporters Association postcard campaign by sending a postcard with the words NO SALE to Alan Hunter at 47 Capel Street in Dublin. Support the Consumer Association’s boycott of FAI goods.

And think of other actions. If enough people want to do something, we should all do it together. Feel free to email me if you want to. Or else organise something yourself. Please also circulate this to anyone that can influence anyone involved in the FAI. Contact your local Eircom League club, your TDs, the Government, anyone who sponsors the FAI or anything related to it.

We can win this if we’re intelligent and committed. Always remember that we’re dealing with people who, at the very same meeting that they decided on this deal, also set up an independent investigation into their own incompetency.

Michael Nugent

[Mattigol]

Don’t just sit there. Do something. Support the Irish Football Supporters Association postcard campaign by sending a postcard with the words NO SALE to Alan Hunter at 47 Capel Street in Dublin. Support the Consumer Association’s boycott of FAI goods.

Who is that we're sending it to?

I'm in favour of a protest against the FAI and would certaintly attend any sort of rally or protest outside Dáil Éireann or FAI HQ.

Do you mind if I copy and paste your post to another messageboard?

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Mattigol,

He's the secretary of the Irish Football Supporters Association.

I don't actually know him, but he's the guy who has been on the news yesterday and today responding to the deal on behalf of Irish fans. Their plan is to bring the postcards to the FAI when they've got enough of them.

I'm going to try to contact him over the weekend and see if they're organising a demo or picket. If not, I'll probably organise something myself along with anyone who is interested.

And sure, feel free to circulate the original post to wherever you feel it would help. I've already sent it to the eircomleague.net messageboard and the soc.culture.irish newsgroup.

Cheers,

Michael Nugent

[dahamsta]

Pardon my ignorance here, I'm just playing devil's advocate: How does the FAI deal differ from deals signed with Sky in the UK? Surely they're in the the exact same position? Also, out of curiosity, are you representing the ISA here Michael?

adam

[Colm]

Jesus!, arent ye getting a little worked up over the whole thing, Skys not that expensive and IMO they will offer much better coverage of the games than RTE ever could.
Why shouldnt the FAI take the best deal they can get?
RTE offered 1 million, Sky/TV3 offered 10 times that, money talks in football and it is ludacris to suggest that the FAI should have settled for an offer that is well below the market value.

[Mattigol]

I think it's wrong to have to pay a foreign TV station to watch my national team. Imagine if the English FA gave an American channel like ESPN exclusive rights to show their games. It wouldn't happen, only in Ireland :rolleyes: Plus €100 sign up and €40 a month is expensive and no doubt they're coverage will be as patronising and crap as ITV's and BBC's coverage during the World Cup.

[Colm]

A lot of people have Sky anyway, so it wont make a lot of difference to them. In fairness, Sky have given very good coverage to the Irish team in the past few years.
I can see the argument from both sides.

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Vetinari,

No, I'm not representing anybody. I'll respond to your other question a little later.

Colm,

It’s not RTE that I am concerned about. It’s the thousands of Irish fans who depend on RTE that are being betrayed. Lansdowne only holds a fraction of the Irish people who want to see an Ireland home game. If you don’t have a ticket, you now have three choices: subscribe to a multinational corporation whose web site calls our country Eire, or go to a pub bringing your children if you have them, or wait for an hour until after the match ends to see it. We deserve better than that.

I din’t know what the final RTE offer would have been, but lets take the figures you’re using, which has been quoted as RTE's annual first offer, not the total. So RTE were offering 1m euro a year, and Sky 1.9m. The difference is, give or take, 1m euro a year.

Now put that in the context of the FAI’s projected income for this coming year. A minumum of 19m euro from the Irish Government (up from 7.5m last year). Another 4m from international matches (these are the FAI’s own figures). That’s 23m euro without tv rights. I don’t know how much merchandise sales will add.

So the difference between going for RTE and Sky is this:

Option one: Give it to RTE. Have 24m euro income this year, plus merchandise sales, over twice the income as last year not counting the World Cup finals, plus all of our fans are able to see the games in comfort and more people feel good about Irish football.

Option two: Give it to Sky. Have 25m euro income this year, plus lower merchandise sales, plus thousands of fans who are infuriated more than anything I’ve experienced before, plus the Consumers Association calling for a public boycott of FAI goods and calling for the IRFU to stop leasing them Lansdowne. That’s a very expensive cost for adding about 4% to your income.

So even in financial terms, it doesn't make sense. And in reality, it’s only peripherally to do with RTE. Like the FAI, they’re largely funded by our money as taxpayers. So we’re paying both of them to screw around with our game. Unless we stand up to them.

Michael Nugent

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Vetinari,

You asked why this Sky deal is different to other Sky deals.

Well, there are a number of reasons, but this is the main one.

A 1997 European Directive known as “Television without Frontiers” allows EU citizens to view sporting events of national importance without having to pay for it. To enforce this, each Government draws up a list of designated events.

For example, Germany has listed all home and away matches of the German national team; the semi-finals and final of the German FA Cup; any European club final involving a German club; and the opening match, semi-finals and finals of every European Championship and World Cup.

In 1999 this became Irish law with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act. However, no events have yet been designated here. But they should have been. It was specifically designed for events like this.

Michael Nugent

[MikeW]

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the deal, the contract has been signed as far as I know so what good is protesting about it going to do? Since a contract is legally binding i don't see how there's any going back on it now. All this talk of boycotting matches is stupid - what good will any of that do for football in this country?

[pete]

Why people getting so worked up about. I don't have Sky but can see it in the pub like everyone else anyway.

Sky offered 7.5 million, RTE offered less than the 2m they paid for the last 4 years.

When the story broke on friday RTE kept saying it was Pay per View i.e. deliberate misinformation.

What is the definition of an Irish supporter? Someone who watches the match on TV? How do they contribute to irish football? I bet all the people watching the WC in my office think they irish supporters yet i be surprised if even half have any interest in watching euro 2004 qualifiers.....

FAI needs money to put into grassroots football & SKy were willing to pay them over 3 times RTEs offer.

:rolleyes:

[Colm]

Originally posted by pete
FAI needs money to put into grassroots football & SKy were willing to pay them over 3 times RTEs offer. Thats the bottom line really. It seems to me that a lot of people care more about having to pay a few quid to get Sky than the development of Irish football at grassroots level, RTE's offer was an insult to Irish football and anyone who REALLY cares about Irish football must acknoledge this.

[pete]

Originally posted by COLM
Thats the bottom line really. It seems to me that a lot of people care more about having to pay a few quid to get Sky than the development of Irish football at grassroots level, RTE's offer was an insult to Irish football and anyone who REALLY cares about Irish football must acknoledge this.


Ah sure isn't watching a few irish matches on the sofa with their 'pool/unted jersey the height of a lot of so called "irish supporters".

The only people i've heard against the extra money for irish football have been the Official Supporters club & people rining into RTE radio.

:rolleyes:

[Colm]

Apparentley, RTE had no interest in showing the eircom league as part of the deal. Maybe, all these so called supporters should think about that before they start going off on their rants!

[pete]

from rte.ie



RTÉ have lost out on the right to screen live coverage of the Republic of Ireland's home international matches for the next four years after the FAI sold the broadcasting rights to Sky Sports. The deal with Rupert Murdoch's company means that Irish fans will now only see World Cup heroes like Damien Duff and Robbie Keane on a pay-per-view basis as Sky Sports channels are only available on subscription.


Nice emotive use of the term pay-per-view by the as always unbiased RTE news department.

Do we not subscibe to RTE when we pay a tv licence? Could this not also be called pay-per-view?

:rolleyes:

[Schumi]

I've noticed that no one moaning about this on the radio or anywhere else has mentioned the EL deal. RTE have clearly shown that they don't give a $hit about the league.

[Colm]

RTE seem to be trying to con people into thinking that you will have to pay a fee for each match on top of your subscription.
All these whingers have three options-
1) Subscribe to Sky and see the games live in your own home.
2) Go to the pub and watch the games on the big screen.
3) Watch the game an hour late on TV3.

[pete]

Originally posted by COLM
RTE seem to be trying to con people into thinking that you will have to pay a fee for each match on top of your subscription.


Exactely. I was willing to give RTE the benefit of the doubt last week cos story just breaking but they still dishonestly using terms such as pay per view.

Most of the whingers are the bar stoolers so surely makes feck all differenc eot them anyway.

:rolleyes:

From an eL point of view Tv3 as a commercial station giving the eL a better deal than RTE a public service broadcaster gave when had full live rights for internationals.

Also, when have RTE shown an u-21 or other underage international?

[patsh]

You do have to pay to view games. I do not have Sky. I would have to pay a sign-on fee, a monthly fee, and aren't the sports channels extra on top of that? Surely thats paying-quite-a-lot-per-view?

[pete]

In the next 2 years the only major games be Russia & Switzerland anyway.

[Schumi]

The deal is for 4 years.

[pete]

Originally posted by Schumi
The deal is for 4 years.

Yup, just mentioned them cos the only games we know of yet. Even if RTE had the rights i be amazed if even have the million odd viewership for Spain game would watch Russia in October.

[Michael Nugent]

This is addressed to Irish football fans who are opposed to the Sky deal. If you support the Sky deal, then I respect your opinion, and this message is not an attempt to change your mind.

If you oppose the Sky deal, be aware that the Government can still list these games for protection, and let the FAI and Sky challenge that decision if they want. I will post details later. Some other points:

(1) I am drafting an initial letter to politicians, the European Commission, the FAI and their affiliated bodies and sponsors, and Sky. Please let me know if there are any specific points you would like included. In particular, what are your feelings about the type of compromises that are being floated (village square type, screenings, one free game to start off with !!! etc.) I will circulate a final draft of the letter as soon as I can, and sign it as from anybody who wants their name included.

(2) I and others are planning a meeting soon (probably in Dublin) to discuss what to do next. If you would like to attend, please email me at michael@happying.com. We will be discussing relatively immediate public action. Some suggestions are leaflets and a petition in town centres and at Eircom League games, plus pickets of the FAI and Eircom. Would you be happy to take part in any of these activities, or have you any other suggestions?

As I said, this is addressed to Irish football fans who are opposed to the Sky deal. If you support the Sky deal, then I respect your opinion, and this message is not an attempt to change your mind.

Michael Nugent

[pete]

I'm not slagging you but whats your connection to irish football?.....i'm just curious.

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Pete,

Sorry, I suppose I should have introduced myself. I wrote an article for the Herald on Monday looking for support for a campaign against this deal. I started with what is effectively the answer to your question, so here are the first few paragraphs from the article...

Sky boss Rupert Murdoch once made the notorious boast: "We will use sport as the battering ram for pay television".

I'm a longtime fan feeling the blunt end of that battering ram. I’ve followed Bohs, Leeds and Ireland since the 1970s. I spent most weekends of my youth at Dalymount when it seemed a citadel, Milltown before it became a carpark, Tolka when its seating was a muck embankment, and being chased out of Oriel Park by people who were probably less ferocious than they seemed at the time.

In those more rough 'n' ready times I watched all of Ireland’s home ties, including friendly and reserve games, from the Dalymount Shed. Then we started winning (okay, mostly drawing) under the Charlton regime and, like thousands of other lifelong fans without FAI or corporate connections, I usually couldn’t get a ticket for Lansdowne.

An hour before the kick-off of one international, a businessman offered me one of “four tickets back in the office that we’re not using”. I went and sat beside three empty seats, getting angrier by the minute. After that I started watching our games at home on the telly.

Now the FAI tell me I cannot even do that, unless I do my bit to shove Rupert's battering ram. Appropriately, the FAI decided this at the very same meeting as they set up an investigation into how they managed to dispense with the services of their only world-class player in the run-up to Korea and Japan.

Well, this time they’ve gone too far. The FAI is not a private business, free to take whatever decision makes most money. It is the repositary of all of our football memories and dreams, as fans and Irish citizens of all ages.

It is about Jackie Carey captaining both Ireland and Northern Ireland with distinction, it's about a teenage Johnny Giles scoring a stunner against Sweden, it's about Don Givens’ hat-trick against Russia in 1974, about Packie Bonnar’s penalty save in Italy, and Damian Duff’s cheeky bow to the crowd in Japan. It is our game, not the FAI’s.

So forget the rows between the FAI and RTE over who offered what and when. Our money keeps both of them in existence. They should both be working together to best serve all of our interests. Not forcing children and OAPs to subscribe to Sky or endure the scrum in the pub...

Michael Nugent

[pete]

Fair enough. Just making sure you not an ole ole-er ;)

[Neil]

I hate Sky and Rupert Murdoch like the rest but, to be honest, if even a million of that 7.5 comes into the eircom League I'll see it as a good deal.

A million is better than nothing.

[Colm]

Yeah, I agree that this deal will be very good for Irish football if the money is used properley i.e. a good slice of the money is put into the eircom league, schoolboys football etc. and not into the pockets of the FAI bigwigs.

[pete]

Unfortunately the media will probably try to get the FAI yto waste the cash on chartered flights for the international team & the like.

The media always seem to forget when they choose that the FAI has amoung other things a lot of underage international teams to pay for which no other irish sports organisation would even come close to supporting.

[citylove]

I agree with that, 1 million is definately better than nothing. Also what I don't understand is the people who are against the deal are the same people critising the FAI about their lack of professionalism. Professionalism requires money! The English FA for years have signed up with SKY and Why? Well obviously its about money and they need money to reinvest in the game just like the FAI are doing.

[Michael Nugent]

On Morning Ireland a representative of the EU Commission has confirmed that, from the Commission's perspective, the Irish home matches and the FAI Cup semis and final must be shown to fans on free tv, despite the FAI contract with Sky, once the Irish Government lists them for protection.

Here's a summary of an article I wrote for yesterday's Herald explaining the law concerned.

TELEVISION WITHOUT FRONTIERS

The FAI Sky row has highlighted a law that our Government has shamefully failed to enforce, in the face of pressure from vested interests in the FAI, IRFU and GAA. Communications Minister Dermot Ahern has now vowed to start listing sports events that we can see, as of right, on free television.

But it is not too late to save the Irish home soccer matches. As Robbie Keane showed against Germany, we should keep fighting until the final whistle.

To do this, we must become as familiar with this match-saving EU law as we should already be with the offside rule. Government Ministers are already straying yards offside with misleading statements about what they can and can’t do. Here are the facts that we should be flagging to them.

Sport is part of our shared culture, and European law recognises this. A 1997 Directive known as “Television without Frontiers” allows EU citizens to view sporting events of national importance without having to pay. To enforce this, each Government draws up a list of protected events.

Germany, Italy and the UK protect the Olympic Games. The UK protects Wimbledon, the Grand National, and the Rugby League and World Cup finals. Italy protects the Tour of Italy cycling competition, the Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix and (somewhat unusually) the San Remo Italian music festival.

Football is by far the most protected sport. Germany and Italy have listed all of their countries’ qualifying games for the European Championships and World Cup, plus the finals of each. Also protected are the English and Scottish FA Cup finals, the German FA Cup semis and final, and European semis or finals with German club sides.

How exactly are the events protected? They must be shown on a station (or group of stations) that can be seen free-to-air to the vast majority of the population. If a broadcaster who cannot do this buys the rights, they can still show the event. But they must also sell the rights to a qualifying broadcaster. If there is a dispute, the High Court can be asked to set a fair market rate.

This Directive entered Irish law with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act of 1999. Since then, no events have yet been designated here. Why?

Here are the first two men offside. Sports Minister John O’Donoghue has suggested that the listing must be interpreted narrowly. And Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said that, "even if there were legislation governing the area, it would not allow entire tournaments to be designated free-to-air". This is all true, but misleading. You may not be able to list, say, the entire World Cup. But you can list, collectively, all home and away international football matches involving your own country.

And here’s the third man offside. Dermot Ahern has said that listing events was difficult because the sports bodies would not agree. But they don’t have to agree. They just have to be consulted. And that has already been done. If they had to agree, that would defeat the whole purpose of the law. In fact, the law explicitly states that, “the failure of the organiser or a broadcaster to respond to the Minister’s efforts to consult shall not preclude the making of an order.”

They could, of course, like anybody else, take a Constitutional challenge against the law itself. And this threat may well have frightened the Government into not listing any events so far. But public reaction to the FAI deal has now spurred Dermot Ahern into more urgent action. Despite the Sky contract, we must not let him ignore the home football matches. The FAI and Sky may have scored a very dodgy ‘Hand-of-Murdoch’ goal, but there is still time for the Government to equalize.

Our listing law is silent about contracts that are signed after the law came into effect, but before the event concerned was listed. In the UK the cut-off date is when the Government started to consult with the bodies concerned about a possible listing (which happened here well before the FAI Sky deal). After that, the parties to a contract are assumed to know that they are dealing with an event that may end up being listed.

Whatever the eventual outcome, the Government should now list these games for protection, and let the FAI and Sky challenge that decision if they want to. This would also open up the way for individual Irish citizens to make direct complaints to the European Commission. The Irish Government, seemingly unclear on the rules, is facing an open goal. They should put the ball in the net and let the referee decide what to do.

[brine2]

This Directive entered Irish law with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Act of 1999. Since then, no events have yet been designated here. Why?

Why? Brown envelopes. Of course you can't write that in the newspaper.

[pete]

Therefore this the the governments fault not the FAI?

Of course your typical media types wouldn't even educate themselves to this before mouthing off.

:rolleyes:

[Michael Nugent]

The FAI and Sky both knew well that they were negotiating a deal that came under this law.

It's no surprise they did the deal in secret.

They knew that if anybody found out (even the FAI's own television committee) then somebody would have got the government to list the games before the contract was signed.

They didn't predict that the Government could or would act against them if they signed the deal and presented it as a fait accompli.

Michael Nugent

[tomsoc]

This whole issue bothers me, I think it's another case of all that is bad in Ireland. Like the Roy Keane saga, things have to be dragged through the mud over and over again.
The first point I have to make is that I am disgusted by RTE's lack of objectivity on their news programs in particular.
Secondly, I 'd like to ask anyone who thinks the FAI have acted wrongly here, would they suggest the FAI should settle for a deal worth about 6 million less?
I'm very worried that if the government do stick their noses in and overturn this contract that the FAI will basically have no assets, if they are not allowed to sell their rights to the highest bidder.

One last point I'd like to make is on the words that are constantly mentioned along the lines of "internationals should remain on free-TV", if this is the case doesn't it leave only TV3 in the running since everyone has to pay their license fee, again not an option like Sky Sports, but a law punishable by a jail sentence.

[Colm]

Originally posted by tomsoc
I am disgusted by RTE's lack of objectivity on their news programs in particular.
Yeah, they seem to be hoping to sway the public into putting pressure on the government to enact this law. They hope that they will then get the rights for a pittence.

[Neil]

This Michael Nugent fella was on the radio there. Apparently he wants the government to hold back the money promised to the FAI and hence the clubs.

[pete]

Originally posted by Neil
This Michael Nugent fella was on the radio there. Apparently he wants the government to hold back the money promised to the FAI and hence the clubs.

I've had a reasoned debate on another well known msg board but he well out of order asking for that.

If there wasn't a government bias against the FAI for years i'd agree with him but by essentailly blocking them from selling the tv rights to their most in demand product at market price the government are going too far!

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Neil,

What station did you hear that on, and what time, as I'd like to check up on it. You can email me privately if you wish - michael@happying.com.

For the record, we did not say that we wanted the Government to hold back the money. In fact, I repeatedly said - on that very issue as well as others - that any decisions about things like that would have to wait until we had a wider mandate from a larger number of fans.

The only two things that Irish Fans United have come together on to date are:

(1) opposition to the Sky deal and

(2) the neeed to set up a representative and accountable body for ALL Irish football fans, with a voice in the formal decision-making process of Irish football.

Michael Nugent

[Michael Nugent]

Just to clarify further, this is from our press release yesterday:

"It is important that the domestic game is protected. The FAI Cup final should be listed, the FAI should carry out the development plan launched last year, and people who watch Irish internationals should consider watching domestic league football as well."

Michael Nugent

[pete]

Originally posted by Michael Nugent
For the record, we did not say that we wanted the Government to hold back the money. In fact, I repeatedly said - on that very issue as well as others - that any decisions about things like that would have to wait until we had a wider mandate from a larger number of fans.

How much is a wider mandate? Would you vote for such a proposal?

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Pete,

I would say a wider mandate for a decision like that could only come after

(a) Getting more people involved, firstly through Monday's public meeting.

(b) Writing to existing supporters groups in every Eircom league club and at other levels of the game, plus the different branches around the country - and in England and abroad - of the Republic of Ireland Soccer Supporters Club, plus some way of identifying a way to represent the many Irish people who love football but are not yet interested in the game here.

(c) Inviting as many as wish to attend from the above list to a seminar-style meeting where ideas could be planned in a rational and structured way.

(d) Formalising the structures of Irish Fans United in a manner that makes it clearly representative of, and accountable to, all of these people.

On the specific question of how I would vote on the development money, I certainly wouldn't vote against it at this stage, and I would be very reluctant to vote against it any stage. But there is an important principle involved that the FAI can't simply take tens of millions of euros of taxpayers money then treat the taxpayers with contempt.

WIll you be coming along on Monday?

Michael Nugent

[Éanna]

Originally posted by Michael Nugent
should consider watching domestic league football as well."

CON-****ING-SIDER????! They shouldn't be allowed next or near Ireland games, or even tvs the stupid fools

[Colm]

Originally posted by Michael Nugent


Writing to existing supporters groups in every Eircom league club and at other levels of the game, plus the different branches around the country - and in England and abroad - of the Republic of Ireland Soccer Supporters Club .

I feel its only right to get the views of the various Irish based supporters groups but could you please explain to me why you want to get the views of foreign based supporters groups seeing as the TV deal has no effect on them?

[tomsoc]

I have a few questions in response to the press conference etc.
I'd like to know why the press conference was held outling your views/opinions etc and only now you're looking to get the invlovement of various supporters groups, surely this could and should have been done before going in front of the media.
I could have understood it if it was to raise public awareness to get people involved, but it went much further than that.
The second point is on the issue of tax-payers money, the simple fact is, if the FAI are allowed to build deals like the SKY one they will be less and less reliant on tax-payers money, however if they must rely on RTE crumbs they will be falling back to tax euros.

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Tomsoc,

Two reasons.

One, because we have two aims: firstly, overturning the Sky deal and secondly, establishing a representative body for Irish fans.

Two, because we are 100% satisfied that the vast majority of Irish football fans oppose the Sky deal. Some EL fans may disagree, but that is because we define "Irish football fan" far more broadly than do some EL fans. We want to bring together everyone who follows football, at any level of experience or input or commitment or frequency, and get us all working together for the good of all aspects of the game.

On the taxpayer's money issue, I fully support that. For many reasons, I think sport is an area which Governments should help to fund. Whatever Man United or the FAI may believe, football is not merely an private industry. It is about our shared identity and dreams and hopes, and should be funded by our taxes. And with that funding comes responsibilities.

Michael Nugent

[pete]

The problem i have with an "all fans" body is different sets of fans have different priorities.

For example the eL wouldn't be in the poor state it is in if a lot of international fans couldn't give a toss about it & even quiet often wish it to fail.

Someone who watches football on tv contributes nothing to the sport so i have a bif problem with such people having a say in the future of irish football.

[Michael Nugent]

Hi Pete,

Well, I never said it would be easy :-)

But I think that such a group would help to get more respect for the EL among people that don't now take it seriously.

And it may reduce the even greater hostility shown by a small number of EL-Only fans to people outside their inner circle of supposedly "true" fans.

But it is a complex issue, and a very emotional one for many people who are passionate about their football.

I'm still thinking about your post the other day about what constitutes a football fan or participant.

I think that's probably the most important post anyone has sent to these lists since I've joined, and when I sort out my own opinions on it I'll certainly respond.

Michael Nugent

[pete]

Originally posted by Michael Nugent
I'm still thinking about your post the other day about what constitutes a football fan or participant.

If i was to use anopther of my own examples to help you out ;-) ........ I think i've gone to one irish rugby international & a maybe 4-5 Munster Heineken Cup games including the final in Cardiff - Someone in my family tends to get tickets for these games & is interested in them & its a good entertianing day out for me. Does this make me a rugby "fan" ? possibly but also probably not a very serious one. However i'd never want to be involved in trying to tell the IRFU what to do to develop their sport.

Maybe its something thats evolved in the last 10-20 years but I still cannot understand people feel they''re supporters of a team by just watching on tv - maybe its to do with sport as entertainment like going to the cinema with few diehards left anymore......

:confused:

[SÓC]

The FAI are claiming that the Sky Deal still stands and that their legal advise says the list cannot be made retrospectively.

I do not claim to be a legal expert but even I know from my 1st year that saying something like that is as big a legal mistake as you can make.

It's bread and butter law, any Solicitor would be able to tell the FAI that. The FAI are trying to bluff their way to some sort of compo Id say. They might well have accepted that the Sky Deal is dead in its present form???