Kieren Fallon

[joeSoap]

I'm seriously thinking of giving up backing horses if he and the others are found guilty, as I suspect they will be.

What chance does any normal, form studying punter have if the form is thrown out the window by fraudulent jockeys??

Football pools only for me now I think.....

[Dodge]

Agree.

Can posters please be careful what they say on this topic as we all know the situation

[drinkfeckarse]

It leaves an awful taste in the mouth and the evidence seems stacked against them all. There is very little safe these days. I know of an instance with some darts players too....

[joeSoap]

And snooker players...Quentin Hann....8 year ban for throwing games

[pete]

The only reason it happens less in football is that its difficult to arrange in a team sport.

If convicted (have to think got some serious evidence if gone this far) will surely be devestaing to the Horse Racing and betting industry. Should the Irish government suspend all funding of irish horse racing if fallon found guilty. I seem to remember some threats to the FAI if it didn't clean up ist act previously and it never involved illegal activities...

Its one of the few sports i almost never watch & never relate to it. Always felt no point to unless have a bet on.

[joeSoap]

Should the Irish government suspend all funding of irish horse racing if fallon found guilty. I seem to remember some threats to the FAI if it didn't clean up ist act previously and it never involved illegal activities....The Irish Turf club have not suspended Fallon and have no grounds to. These alleged offences took place in Britain and affected UK betting markets. He is suspended in the UK only.

[drinkfeckarse]

Unfortunately I also heard a whisper from a friend of mine who used to play for a Scottish League club that they normally "did" one game a year if they had nothing to play for.

It helped pay for their pre-season trip apparently and even worse is that he said one of their players phoned him towards the end of the season to let him know to put money on them losing a home game.......they lost 1-0 after the keeper inadvertently dropped the ball from a corner at the foot of an opposing teams player:rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Never bet on yellow pack football. 2nd rule of football gambling. 1st rule is don't bet on Italian cup games

Is fallon actually suspended in the UK?

[joeSoap]

Yes, he's suspended until Friday at least when theres a hearing to see whether or not he'll be able to continue racing whilst out on bail.

From the Indo:

Top jockey Fallon on race-fix charge

LESS than 24 hours after a victorious Kieren Fallon once again thrilled the crowds by winning the Irish Derby, the former champion jockey was yesterday charged with fraud.

The 41-year-old - one of racing's household names - was charged as part of Britain's biggest-ever investigation into race-fixing. The alleged corruption is said to have netted the fixers £10m (€14m) in bets.

The inquiry centres on allegations that a syndicate of gamblers bribed jockeys to lose. Most of the races were said to have been at low-grade events that attracted a betting turnover far exceeding the prize money on offer.

Fallon, one of 11 people charged after answering bail at Bishopsgate police station in London, arrived at at the station at 9.20am yesterday.

He was looking relaxed in jeans and sweat shirt and spent only 20 minutes inside. Long enough, however, for his world, and that of the sport he represents, to be turned upside down.

Whatever happens now, the fraud charge is one that could cause untold harm to racing, quite apart from costing Fallon his right to ride in Britain.

Police confirmed that the six-times champion jockey had been charged with conspiracy to defraud. A former racing syndicate director, Miles Rodgers, was also charged with conspiracy to defraud and an offence under the Proceeds of Crime Act.

The City of London Police investigation - codenamed Operation Crypton - has sent shock waves through the racing world.

One insider said that the industry remained supportive of Mr Fallon. But the Jockey Club has been at pains in the past few years to show that it will not tolerate any suggestion of illegal activity and recently set up the Horseracing Regulatory Authority (HRA).

"The industry has always closed ranks and believes perceptions of corruption in racing are exaggerated," said the official.

"While there may be a bit of shady behaviour, it is nothing serious. There are now people who feel it is very important to demonstrate that people can have confidence in the way it is run in this country and they want to be seen to be dynamically policing it."

Hundreds of officers have been assigned to the investigation, which has looked into the alleged fixing of the outcome of more than 80 races between December 1, 2002 and September 2, 2004.

Fallon, a father-of-three from Crusheen, Co Clare, is accused of conspiring to defraud customers of the online betting exchange Betfair.

Rodgers (37), of Silkstone, South Yorkshire, was also charged with conspiring to defraud Betfair customers and an offence relat ing to money-launderingallegations. Both men were released on bail and are due to appear at City of London court on July 17.

The investigation, in which the first arrests were made in September 2004, has led to raids on 19 separate addresses.

The case centres on alleged irregular betting on Betfair, which passed records from its tracking of betting patterns to the Jockey Club. Such online exchanges allow punters to match their own bets with each other, setting their own odds in a personal bet, eliminating the bookmakers.

Individuals can bet on horses to lose as well as to win and can bypass the margins made by traditional bookies.

Last night, the HRA said Mr Fallon had been suspended from riding in Britain pending a hearing today. But the jockey, who has an Irish licence, will not face any problems back home, where he is stable jockey to the powerful Ballydoyle operation.

Denis Egan, chief executive of the Irish Turf Club, said: "The situation in Ireland is that he will be able to continue to ride. The licensing committee will obviously note what has happened, but as far as we are concerned Kieren Fallon is innocent until proven guilty."

Racehorse trainer Alan Berry (43), of Lancaster, and jockeys Darren Williams (27), of Leyburn, North Yorkshire, and Fergal Lynch (28), of Boroughbridge, North Yorkshire, are also facing allegations of conspiracy to defraud, as are three other men.

Two other men and a woman were charged under the Proceeds of Crime Act. Seventeen people were released without charge.

Det Chief Supt Steve Wilmott, head of the city economic crime division, said: "The amount of work undertaken by the investigation team has been immense. During the course of the investigation we have arrested 34 people, conducted over 500 interviews, taken more than 1,300 statements and provided over 5,000 exhibits and nearly 40,000 pages of evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service and counsel."

[CollegeTillIDie]

Is there any truth in these allegations or is this another example of British justice?

[pete]

Is there any truth in these allegations or is this another example of British justice?

I presume that a joke?

I doubt they would go all this trouble if didn't think culd get a conviction.

[Macy]

I doubt they would go all this trouble if didn't think culd get a conviction.
Dunno, so much hype around the case I'd say they'd try and take it to court at least. He is still not proven of doing anything wrong, so certainly the race ban is unjust imo.

[joeSoap]

Fallon has just been banned from riding in Britain until the outcome of any trial.

Gulity until proven otherwise....:rolleyes: :confused:

[el punter]

The trainer on the same charges as him Alan Berry is allowed continue training while Fallon and the two other jockeys are not allowed ride....seems very inconsistent.

There's a fair amount of naivety in some of the above posts. Most sports have been manipulated for a 'job' bet at some time or another. It's far from the first time this issue has arisen in racing in recent times.

More often than not its using information in an 'insider trading' stunt rather than anything being rigged. East European and Italian football is infamous for 'agreed results'.

When people are betting more on these games than the players are being paid by their clubs there is an obvious temptation. What would it take to convince a Serie C2 goalkeeper to have a bad game?

[pete]

I don't think you can have such a high profile jockey still riding while he is under such charges. Would make a mockery of the sport. maybe because a trainer is lower profile then they letting him continue...?

If a bank manager was under suspicion of fraud he would be suspended. same with a guard accused of assault... the list goes on...

[the 12 th man]

I think Fallon will will take this to the High Court or the ECFHR as it appears that himself and the other 2 jockeys are effectivley sentenced without trial.

Because the Sport is so betting orientated that HRA feels that it can't have Jockeys still riding while awaiting trial.

Anybody who doesn't use the Betfair internet site might not be aware of the fact you can make as much money if not more these days by "laying"(betting that a horse won't win a race) as you will trying to back a winner so you can see where the temptation would be for anybody inside the racing industry who might know a certain horse was not performing well at home on the gallops just before a race.

This case is far from over.

[el punter]

maybe because a trainer is lower profile then they letting him continue...?

Arguably the trainer has more a position of responisibility for the performance of a horse than the jockey. It is also easier to hide non-trying as a trainer than a jockey.

If a jockey does not make an honest effort to win a race it must be done in the full glare of tv cameras. If a trainer does not have his horse fit, it is relatively easily disguised.

More succinctly: dodgy trainers are a greater concern than dodgy jockeys

[Superhoops]

....Anybody who doesn't use the Betfair internet site might not be aware of the fact you can make as much money if not more these days by "laying"(betting that a horse won't win a race) as you will trying to back a winner so you can see where the temptation would be for anybody inside the racing industry who might know a certain horse was not performing well at home on the gallops just before a race.....
Since horse racing began hundreds of years ago owners, trainers, jockeys and punters have always been in a position where they really fancy a horse to win and indeed horses are often laid out specifically for races.

What they don't know however is that the horse will definitely win. Despite immaculate preparation often such fancied horses don't win for a varity of reasons, it didnt react on the day, it got boxes in, it found one too good for it, it slipped/fell, etc.

On the other hand, there are far more instances of owners, trainers and jockeys knowing that their horse definitely won't win and the since the introduction of betting exchanges such as Betfair this potentially opens an avenue for 'greedy' connections to cash in on this knowledge, mainly at the expense of gullible punters.

There has obviously been an extensive investigation into this case and while I could understand how some of the lesser jockeys would be sucked into this, I cannot understand how a multi-millionaire jockey at the height of his career like Fallon would find himself associated with such allegations. I doubt if they have just used Fallon to make an example out of him, the authorities must have some evidence to link him.

I hope the allegations are not true, but I believe there is no smoke without fire and if Fallon or any of the rest of them are found guilty life bans and possibly jail sentences would be appropriate if the integrity of racing has any chance of survival.

[el punter]

It should be remembered that bookmakers have been 'laying' horses for many generations before Betfair and the internet was created. There was always money to be made by any jockey, trainer or stable lad who would supply a bookmaker with information about a horse that euphemistically was 'Not Off' or wouldn't win.

Betfair love a bit of publicity and are getting plenty of it with this case.

[Superhoops]

It should be remembered that bookmakers have been 'laying' horses for many generations before Betfair and the internet was created. There was always money to be made by any jockey, trainer or stable lad who would supply a bookmaker with information about a horse that euphemistically was 'Not Off' or wouldn't win.

Betfair love a bit of publicity and are getting plenty of it with this case.
Agreed, but if you knew a horse was 'off' obviously you wouldn't bet on it (no profit in that), you could bet against it on another horse (no guarantee the other horse would win) or a bookmaker could offer higher odds to encourage ordinary punters to lump on it (a sure winner for a bookie once he knew the horse was off, assuming punters were not wary of lenghtening odds).

However, since the emergence of betting exchanges you can now specifically lay a bet that the horse will lose. This does not need the intervention of bookies nor does it attract the public attention of what appears to be a fancied horse lenghtening its odds in the betting market. This an ideal environment for anyone with inside information to profit from without attracting obvious attention.

Not sure if I agree about Betfair and publicity. In this case, I don't think the old adage 'there is no such thing as bad publicity' is true. Betfair's revenue is from their 'cut' of total turnover. If people shy away from exchanges because of publicity which suggests everything may not be above board, then it is in their interests to fully co-operate with any investigation that either brings the wrongdoing out in the open or proves there is nothing shady going on. I wouldn't think Betfair would welcome any adverse publicity.

[the 12 th man]

, then it is in their interests to fully co-operate with any investigation that either brings the wrongdoing out in the open or proves there is nothing shady going on. I wouldn't think Betfair would welcome any adverse publicity.

This is where the case against the accused will either be proved or not.The "suspect losing bets" will have left a paper trail in the Betfair computers that I'm sure the Authorities will have access to bearing in mind the gravity of the charges.The HRA must feel they can link the bets with the accused or else they've made the biggest ****-up in the disciplinary history of the sport.

It beggars belief that K F would be involved in this considering the amount(s) of money he makes out of the sport.

[Superhoops]

It beggars belief that K F would be involved in this considering the amount(s) of money he makes out of the sport.
Fallon has a record of being involved in incidents which for a guy with his money makes you wonder if he gets a 'buzz' out of these things. For a family man at the top of his extremely well paid profession it is very sad.

[el punter]

If people shy away from exchanges because of publicity which suggests everything may not be above board, then it is in their interests to fully co-operate with any investigation that either brings the wrongdoing out in the open or proves there is nothing shady going on. I wouldn't think Betfair would welcome any adverse publicity.

On the contrary, events such as this bring Betfair out of the world of 'puntertalk' and in to the mainstream. You get people starting conversations about 'this thing Betfair' who would never ever talk about either sport or betting at any other time. The brand awareness created here is an incalculable boon to them.

Betfair have often been known to instigate their own publicity by casting themselves as rejected valiant white knights in weeding out corrupt betting patterns. An example was a few weeks ago when they 'revealed' that the GAA (and possibly the FAI) had declined to sign a Memorandum of Understanding, which is basically an agreement to share information about suspicious betting behaviour.

The GAA saw it for what it was - an attempt to ligitmize themselves in the mainstream by getting the endorsement of a body as influential as the GAA.

Betfair simply cant get bad publicity, because they will always say they are nothing but facilitators - the outcomes of the events they facilitate trading on are irrelevant to them.

[el punter]

Fallon has a record of being involved in incidents which for a guy with his money makes you wonder if he gets a 'buzz' out of these things. For a family man at the top of his extremely well paid profession it is very sad.

He was suspended for three weeks for losing a race he apparently had in the bag when on an 8/11 favourite at Linfield in 2004. That was the only results affecting incident in fairness.

[Superhoops]

He was suspended for three weeks for losing a race he apparently had in the bag when on an 8/11 favourite at Linfield in 2004. That was the only results affecting incident in fairness.
I was referring mainly to off track incidents

[DotTV]

John Francome said the other day that six races a year are fixed.
The next day Michael Hills, Richard Hills and Kevin Darley wrote a joint letter to the Racing Post saying that they had never been in a fixed race or had never been approached to hold back a horse.
I find that hard to believe and think Francome was being nice with his "six" races.

Its a pain in the ass that Fallon is banned.before this if you saw him coming back to Ireland for a few rides you knew they had a decent chance of winning.Now he's racing in every meeting it rules out that little advantage

[el punter]

Its a pain in the ass that Fallon is banned.before this if you saw him coming back to Ireland for a few rides you knew they had a decent chance of winning.Now he's racing in every meeting it rules out that little advantage


Glad you're seeing the big picture on this

[joeSoap]

His appeal against his ban failed....he is now, as they say..."screwed"..
..

[CollegeTillIDie]

Fallon has just been banned from riding in Britain until the outcome of any trial.

Gulity until proven otherwise....:rolleyes: :confused:

Hence my earlier British Justice comment. Another verdict from the people who brought us the Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4 etc. And people are curious why Irish people like England to lose at sports? :rolleyes:
If he turns out to be guilty, throw the whole library never mind the book at him. But give him due process first!

[pete]

Like i said before if someone in any other profession was in a similar position they would also be suspended before prosecuted. Its like when an accused person is denied bail dispite not being found guilty yet. This anti english rubbish is tiring.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Like i said before if someone in any other profession was in a similar position they would also be suspended before prosecuted. Its like when an accused person is denied bail dispite not being found guilty yet. This anti english rubbish is tiring.

Ok Pete what about the fact that the trial doesn't come up for 1 year?
Justice delayed is justice denied!

[pete]

Ok Pete what about the fact that the trial doesn't come up for 1 year?
Justice delayed is justice denied!

Same thing when someone locked up in jail a year before a trial. Clearly a judge saw enough evidence to suggest a very strong case. What about the other people suspended?

[bennocelt]

if you know horse racing then you shopuld know that its has always been dodgy
dodgy results.....dodgy jockeys......dodgy favourties and prices
its part and parcel of horse racing

i think it is an anti irish thing
just today watching "glorious goodwood" (sic).........seen 2 frankie detorri winners in a total mismatch of races.....now that was dodgy and all on tv

so i think they have a cheek to accuse fallon of fixing races

[Dodge]

Its not an anti Irish thing. The dodgiest blokes in racing are Irish. FACT!

Oh and if Dettori won the two races, does that make racing Pro Italian?

[bennocelt]

Its not an anti Irish thing. The dodgiest blokes in racing are Irish. FACT!

Oh and if Dettori won the two races, does that make racing Pro Italian?

well yeah i guess it isnt so much anti irish as maybe a deep seated jealousy .......that maybe ...just maybe....english racing would be diddly squat with out the irish .....our horses are better.....our jockeys are better......and now even our festivals are more competitive

and are ye guys seriousy telling me that the english jockeys are squeaky clean and honest!!!

[joeSoap]

The whole Betfair thing to me is wrong. Its a flawed concept totally open to corruption. Betting on something to lose?? That's got to be much easier than betting on something to win.

[Dodge]

The whole Betfair thing to me is wrong. Its a flawed concept totally open to corruption. Betting on something to lose?? That's got to be much easier than betting on something to win.
And the prices reflect that. Betting on a horse that 100/1 to win gives you odds of 1/100. easier yeah but you need big bucks to make it pay. Worse case I've seen is an English guy who laid Hi Cloy last December when Roger Loughran thought he had won on Central House. He laid GB£70,000 to win £70. OUCH!!!

[bennocelt]

Gemini Lucy today in galway was as good as anything i have seen all week
i mention it as today in a british paper some ***** was making the point that the galway races were basically s hi te....an excuse for paddies to get drunk..........wait till we see that baby clean up in cheltenham
also he laughed that Aidan o brien didnt get any winners yesterday in goodwood........well he fuc king got a beauty today......arogant english wa nker

[el punter]

The whole Betfair thing to me is wrong. Its a flawed concept totally open to corruption. Betting on something to lose?? That's got to be much easier than betting on something to win.

That's exactly what bookmakers have always done. Everytime you back something to win, the person taking the bet is backing it to lose. It's nothing new really.

[el punter]

The dodgiest blokes in racing are Irish. FACT!


Maybe I'm missing your sense of humour here Dodge, but you're smarter than that.

[el punter]

i think it is an anti irish thing
just today watching "glorious goodwood" (sic).........seen 2 frankie detorri winners in a total mismatch of races.....now that was dodgy and all on tv

so i think they have a cheek to accuse fallon of fixing races

Please make some effort at explaining how it is an anti-irish thing. Judging from a few of your posts you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the English?

What's dodgy about Frankie Dettori winning on two favourites? It's dodgy when favourites lose, not when they win.

[bennocelt]

Please make some effort at explaining how it is an anti-irish thing. Judging from a few of your posts you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the English?

What's dodgy about Frankie Dettori winning on two favourites? It's dodgy when favourites lose, not when they win.


a chip? no not really......i like the english.....but they are very patronising
i do think it was dodgy racing.......he won 2 races at a canter......it looked liked the arab owned horses were just set up to win those races.....the other horses were so obviously out of their league.......its a usual thing to see in horse racing but dont make it out to be competitive when it isnt.......

im just a little peed off that the english are not giving due respect to irish racing.....considering that all the top jockeys and trainers are in galway.....bigger prize money.....bigger crowds and better racing

[pete]

I don't know enough to comment on the quality of the racing in Galway but more people go for weeks p!ss up than go for the racing. Seems more a scoial event than a sporting event.

[el punter]

a chip? no not really......i like the english.....but they are very patronising
i do think it was dodgy racing.......he won 2 races at a canter......it looked liked the arab owned horses were just set up to win those races.....the other horses were so obviously out of their league.......its a usual thing to see in horse racing but dont make it out to be competitive when it isnt.......

im just a little peed off that the english are not giving due respect to irish racing.....considering that all the top jockeys and trainers are in galway.....bigger prize money.....bigger crowds and better racing

You'll find that the quality of racing (measured by the ratings award by the official handicapper) is far superior at Goodwood this week than at Galway.

There are no 'Group' races at Galway, there are several each day at Goodwood.

The Galway Races is about much more than the quality of the horses however. It's a cultural thing (like Pete said).

The top jockeys and trainers are not all in Galway either. There is a large Ballydoyle and Godolphin contingent in Goodwood this week.

And IF a stroke is going to pulled in a race - it's not going to be in a black-type contest at one of the highest profile meetings of the British racing calendar live on BBC. It's going to be tucked away in some 2nd rate maiden at a gaff track.

Another and...why would the British fix a race to allow an Arab horse to win?

[bennocelt]

You'll find that the quality of racing (measured by the ratings award by the official handicapper) is far superior at Goodwood this week than at Galway.

There are no 'Group' races at Galway, there are several each day at Goodwood.

The Galway Races is about much more than the quality of the horses however. It's a cultural thing (like Pete said).

The top jockeys and trainers are not all in Galway either. There is a large Ballydoyle and Godolphin contingent in Goodwood this week.

And IF a stroke is going to pulled in a race - it's not going to be in a black-type contest at one of the highest profile meetings of the British racing calendar live on BBC. It's going to be tucked away in some 2nd rate maiden at a gaff track.

Another and...why would the British fix a race to allow an Arab horse to win?



quality is a matter of opinion really
how are horses handicapped? isnt that a case in itself.....seen a few of the goodwood races that were meant to be group 2......joke they were.......now group one yeah but the rest
i know that galway is not group 1 racing.....its not like for like anyway......but its still half decent racing.......with top jockeys and top trainers.......
strokes of all kinds are pulled in every race meeting............i saw live on bbc superior horses running against donkeys......the punters are always the mugs in that game.....

one of my main gripes was that the english were going on about how great goodwood is......and how galway is just a p iss up, which it is........but it also had some bloody good racing in it.....and i reckon it was better than any **** (bar yeats) i saw in "glorious goodwood" (my ar se).....