Ireland Team v Holland (and Germany)

[gustavo]

I don't know about giving Carsley the reins in centre midfield - still havent fully forgiven him for penalty v Romania,
Presume you mean the one vs Turkey
It was hardly intentional so to hold a grudge against a player for something he did 7 years ago is a bit harsh!
He would be a good addition to the squad alright
Would mostly agree with your team but would have A O Brien instead of O Shea , A Reid instead of McGeady , Kavanagh instead of Quinn and Morrison ahead of Doyle

[Qwerty]

Why does everyone put Doyle adhead of Morrison? What has Clinton done wrong for us? For that matter why is Doyle ahread of Elliott?

[Soper]

Perhaps because many people think that Doyle is better than Morrison, and there is no place for sentimentality in international football.

[Scram]

Ladies and gentlemen, Terry is glad to be back!
:)

The most likely eleven to be picked will be as follows (i.e. not who I personally think SHOULD be picked, but who I think Stan will select anyway!):

Given

Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
Harte

Miller
Reid
O'Shea
Duff

Keane
Doyle

With McGeady, Andy Reid, Carr, Joey O'Brien, Elliott, Morrison, Fabrizio Kavanelli (silver feather) and Paddy Kenny on the bench.

The team I would like to see line out would be as follows:

Given

Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
Harte

Ronnie O'Brien/McGeady (trickery, speed, confidence - both these lads have it in abundance. All it needs is a bit of courage from 'd'gaffer')
S Reid
A Reid (the best place to deploy his excellent passing and vision: an old-style playmaker and, as in the last campaign, would take some of the creative burden off Duff. Also, his performance against France shows he has the engine, the aggression and the willingness to 'get stuck in' to succeed in CM)
Duff (praying for a move so he can rediscover his old swashbuckling self. Whoever said on an earlier thread that Chelsea have turned him into a wing-back was spot on!)

Keane
Doyle

With Elliott, Morrison, Kavanelli, Joey O'Brien, Carr, O'Shea, Kenny etc ar an bínse.

What do you people make of it?:ball:

Was about to slam you having Miller in the 11 that you think will start, but notice you have Andy Reid in your own 11. I would be amazed if anybody saw more usefulness in Miller than Andy. I agree completely that he should be palyed in the middle and have every confidence in his ability to be outstanding in that role, where as Miller belongs in Championship football at best and I might not even include himin hte squad.

Wouldn't start Mcgeady though I would have no qualms about bringing him on as a sub. Also, I play a 4-3-2-1 formation with Doyle or Morrison as the 1. Robbie Keane needs to be running at players

[Irish_Praha]

Is A. Reid getting much (if any) playing time in the pre-season friendlies?

[brine3]

Roy Keane is retired and we need to get over it. There's no use in putting Carsley or O'Shea in there and hoping they'll be Keane-lite, they aren't going to be the box to box midfielder he was.

We should change our style of play to suit the midfielders we have now. I say go 4-4-1-1 Italian style formation (they like us, have loads of midfielders and full-backs, with little in the way of strikers).

--------------Given
O'Brien - O'Brien - Dunne - Finnan
McGeady - Kavanelli - S Reid - Duff
-------------Ireland--------------
-------------Keane----------

And give Robbie the nr. 9 jersey so he doesn't get any ideas in his head about being a playmaker.

I think if we play the passing game against the Dutch we can catch them out, because they have proven at the World Cup to be hoofers.

[geysir]

What about the German centre halves? 2 big féckers, Metzelder and Mertesacker ("7tft with inches to spare"). I don't think even Jason is over 6ft.tall. Does it change anything with how the game is approached?

[RogerMilla]

stan was at the german games in the world cup , if he doesnt have a plan to deal with the german height then we are hosed. surely we will be looking to put balls in behind them or crosses that a player of lower stature can meet

[eirebhoy]

Up against the 2 German centre halfs the best thing to do would probably be to play 2 pacy strikers. Morrison would just give Duffer the option of crossing it in when he'll be lucky to win a header.

[jbyrne]

Up against the 2 German centre halfs the best thing to do would probably be to play 2 pacy strikers. Morrison would just give Duffer the option of crossing it in when he'll be lucky to win a header.

dont think morrison is too bad in the air. 2 good headed goals in succesive games against cyrus and the swiss away in last campaign

[eirebhoy]

dont think morrison is too bad in the air. 2 good headed goals in succesive games against cyrus and the swiss away in last campaign
He's not bad in the air but he's not exceptionally good either which you need to be against Germany.

[tetsujin1979]

Anytime I see two smaller strikers against 2 larger centre halves, I'm reminded of England - Sweden from 2002, Owen and Vassell VS Mellberg and Mjallby. England spent the entire game lobbing high balls into the front 2 and wondering why the 6"4 centre half pairing were winning more possession than their 5"6 strikers. It'll be the same for us against Germany, long balls will not win the game, unless they are delivered perfectly.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be amazed if we play any form of long ball game against Germany. We haven't done for years.

In terms of aerial strength young Doyle is actually very good, despite not being overly tall. He reminds me of Henrik Larsson in this sense: the timing of his jump is impeccable which makes up for the lacking inches.

[Dr. Ogba]

I'd be amazed if we play any form of long ball game against Germany. We haven't done for years.

In terms of aerial strength young Doyle is actually very good, despite not being overly tall. He reminds me of Henrik Larsson in this sense: the timing of his jump is impeccable which makes up for the lacking inches.

:eek:
Please tell me that was said with tongue firmly in cheek!!!:D

[Stuttgart88]

:eek:
Please tell me that was said with tongue firmly in cheek!!!:DThere's a difference between an aimless, inaccurate & generally inept passing game and a carefully thought out long ball game!

Seriously though, neither Kerr nor McCarthy relied on a long ball game. Sure, under Mick we had Cascariono and Quinn and yes, late on in games there was a clear Plan B, but the general style of play hasn't been long ball for quite some time. Certainly not long, high balls anyway. We do play long balls up the touchline from full back but that's not what you're talking about.

[Dr. Ogba]

There's a difference between an aimless, inaccurate & generally inept passing game and a carefully thought out long ball game!

Seriously though, neither Kerr nor McCarthy relied on a long ball game. Sure, under Mick we had Cascariono and Quinn and yes, late on in games there was a clear Plan B, but the general style of play hasn't been long ball for quite some time. Certainly not long, high balls anyway. We do play long balls up the touchline from full back but that's not what you're talking about.

I understand that McCarthy/Kerr always intended to play the neat, passing game but I wouldn't call passing the ball between defenders and hoofing forward hopefully "carefully thought out"!! We had our moments under McCarthy yes (most notably Holland away) but apart from that we were fairly aimless, especially under Kerr...

[Stuttgart88]

That's what I was trying to say!

[brine3]

i think the italians showed that the way to beat the germans is to crowd the midfield with skilled players and bring your full backs into the game

finnan is our grosso and stephen ireland could be our pirlo

[eirebhoy]

finnan is our grosso and stephen ireland could be our pirlo
Isn't Ireland more of an attacking midfielder than one like Pirlo who sits in front of the defence?

[brine3]

pirlo gets forward a lot, it's gatusso who did most of the sitting in front of defence. when totti went off pirlo had more of a license to go forward and it was pirlo who gave the defence splitting ball to grosso for the goal

[eirebhoy]

pirlo gets forward a lot, it's gatusso who did most of the sitting in front of defence. when totti went off pirlo had more of a license to go forward and it was pirlo who gave the defence splitting ball to grosso for the goal
Pirlo sits in front of the back 4 and Gatusso runs all over the pitch like a maniac for the 90 minutes. Pirlo is exactly like Alonso (I think they call them playmakers?) and we don't have any of those atm. We're stuck with the basic holding midfielder. Gatusso is more of a Sissoko type if comparing with Liverpool again. :)

[Dr. Ogba]

Pirlo sits in front of the back 4 and Gatusso runs all over the pitch like a maniac for the 90 minutes. Pirlo is exactly like Alonso (I think they call them playmakers?) and we don't have any of those atm. We're stuck with the basic holding midfielder. Gatusso is more of a Sissoko type if comparing with Liverpool again. :)

Except Gattuso's good :p

[NeilMcD]

Does anybody know when the Ireland squad is going to be announced.

[Danny]

Next Tuesday (8th) according to this http://www.irishfootballonline.com/news_story.php?newsid=5093

[Stuttgart88]

(I think they call them playmakers?) and we don't have any of those atm. We're stuck with the basic holding midfielder. I'd say Kavanagh is far more of a playmaker than a holder. It's just, as kenforee pointed out recently in the Frank Lampard thread in World Football, that he makes play from deeplying positions. Playing deep doesn't by itself make you a holder. I actually think Kavanagh is equally comfortable in deep and advanced positions.

[theworm2345]

Except Gattuso's good :p
Gattuso is a steam engine, he just runs over anything in his path, at least in the few games I watched of him

[eirebhoy]

I'd say Kavanagh is far more of a playmaker than a holder. It's just, as kenforee pointed out recently in the Frank Lampard thread in World Football, that he makes play from deeplying positions. Playing deep doesn't by itself make you a holder. I actually think Kavanagh is equally comfortable in deep and advanced positions.
Agreed. At almost 33 now though I'd say his role is now primarily the holding role. I'd prefer it that way with him taking the short option and Reid being the more creative force.

[Scram]

Anytime I see two smaller strikers against 2 larger centre halves, I'm reminded of England - Sweden from 2002, Owen and Vassell VS Mellberg and Mjallby. England spent the entire game lobbing high balls into the front 2 and wondering why the 6"4 centre half pairing were winning more possession than their 5"6 strikers. It'll be the same for us against Germany, long balls will not win the game, unless they are delivered perfectly.

Well long high balls won't, but in any game, you have to show your opponents more than one "trick" or they will be as the Swiss coach said about Kerr's Ireland..very predictable.

4-4-2 may work as Stutt says, but a 4-3-2-1 can be just as effective against big strikers if played properly finding the wide men on the sideline, drawing the defence out, with guys like Duff and Ireland, McGeady playing wide and well capable of taking defenders on, this system could well open up the German defence.

Our game should be ground football, we played it in Stade France to good effect in a game we should have won, but lost our way after that, culminating in appalling displays in Cyprus and v The Swiss at Lansdowne with long balls up to 2 forwrds with 10 minutes left in the game.

The odd high ball into Morrison/Doyle will at least put the Germans on notice that we may use that option, and Morrison can jump.

[Qwerty]

Damn sure that Stan will go 4-5-1 against Germany, I would but then what do I know? If we play 4 in midfield we will be over-run.

[Stuttgart88]

If he does he should give it a full dry run against the Dutch. Whereas in a 4-4-2 I'd pick Morrisson ahead of Doyle, in a 4-5-1 I'd go with Doyle RHM and Duff LHM.

[shakermaker1982]

anybody expecting any shocks with the squad announcement?

I'd prefer us to stay at 4-4-2, I think 4-5-1 will keep us penned in and make us play in a conservative fashion.

[Jon'o]

[QUOTE=shakermaker1982;511387]anybody expecting any shocks with the squad announcement?[QUOTE]

Id hope it'll be prety much the squad that'll go out for the germany game, no point in trying new things... need to stick to plan A... what ever that might be

[sullanefc]

My team: (3-4-1-2)

Its fairly positive, but I believe we have to be positive in Germany and get at them. This team will beat ze germans for their country.

Paddy Kenny

Lee Carsley Andy O'Brien Gary Breen

Aiden McGeady Matt Holland Steven Reid Kevin Kilbane

Kevin Nolan

Clinton Morrison Terry Dixon

[soccerc]

My team: (3-4-1-2)

Its fairly positive, but I believe we have to be positive in Germany and get at them. This team will beat ze germans for their country.

Paddy Kenny

Lee Carsley Andy O'Brien Gary Breen

Aiden McGeady Matt Holland Steven Reid Kevin Kilbane

Kevin Nolan

Clinton Morrison Terry Dixon

I sense some sarcasm or is it irony here ;)

[sullanefc]

I sense some sarcasm or is it irony here ;)

You would be right. This is a team that the 33% or so of people (that want Nolan in the Irish squad) can be proud of.

[geysir]

You would be right.
Well, he did have two guesses.